Wow! is right!

Did your W say one of her top ENs was Domestic Support? If she did, I bet she only said it b/c you've been neglecting that EN, but not b/c it is REALLY one of her top ENs. Alot of people make that mistake when filling out that questionaire.

You know how I know it isn't one of her top ENs? B/c OM didn't meet any domestic support for her. And yet, he was able to fill her love bank.

Whenever Dr. Harley coaches a couple he would ask them what their top ENs were. and no matter what they told him, he'd tell the H to focus on conversation and affection b/c that is generally what a woman's top ENs are.

And no matter what a H said his were he told the W to focus on SF and recreation.

When I first read that, I was like are you kidding me? I don't have to spend hours cleaning the house or hours fixing a meal to make my DH love me? I only need 30 mins to do it??? LOL

The point I'm trying to make, is not to focus on the lesser ENs.

The way to fill her LB is by spending time w/ her...more than 15 hours a week....having FUN w/ her. Talking to her, listening to her...showing her affection.

BTW: An easy way to show your W affection, is by picking out a card for her and mailing it to her. Something that lets her know you were thinking of her during the day.

Another one would be clearing the frost/snow off her windshield before she goes to work. Or warming her car up for her...or noticing when she runs out of something and picking her up some more.

That kind of stuff will score big points w/ her. And will hopefully be met w/ getting your top ENs met too.

Marsh, you are so right, again! Conversation and affection is the key. I can do that and will. I made her a lunch this morning because she was running late and her tone changed for the better alomost instantly. Thanks Marsh!

Marsh, How did your EA end? When it did end, how long did it take for you to commit to the marriage?

The reason I ask this is because I feel too far removed from the EA and I think my W does as well for either of us to associate our current situation with the EA last year.

I can find no evidence of an A and I have been looking hard, even when the A was going on I could read her like a book, she was horrible at lying. There is none of that now.

W insists that the problems are with us and that she hasn't felt connected to me in a very long time. She may not be in a A but she is wayward in her inability to commit to us. She told me the other night that our recent good times are not consistant enough for her to believe this can be our new normal.

I know the tone here in SAA is that she feels this way because of OM, but isn't it possible that she cannot commit to something where she can't yet see herself happy and OM is truly a non-issue. Currently me=not happy and anything else=maybe happier, at least this is the way I'm seeing things.

The EA was a symptom that things were not okay with us before the EA. If this is true, which it is, and she actually isn't in an A then can't it be true that she is committed the remaining faithful as long as we are married, which she says she is. In her words "I just don't have anything more to give right now, and it isn't enough for you". she's right it isn't enough for me, but can I really blame her if I can't stick with a plan A for more then a week at a time?

Another thing I'm struggling with is that even if we survive this together, I need a whole lot more from her then I have ever recieved and I'm not sure she is capable of that. So I may succeed in keeping my marriage, but will I truly be happy if I do? Anyt thoughts, advice?

Before you dismiss her as incapable of meeting your needs, give MB principles a chance.

If you think SAA doesn't fit your sitch right now, then try reading Fall in Love Stay in Love.

And....make sure you are spending more than 15 hours a week together. This is KEY.

You've got to start having FUN w/ your W.

Plan A isn't supposed to be a sacrifice..or a PITA. It's supposed to be about holding yourself to a higher standard and improving yourself...and doing things that will benefit your M.

It won't work if you are doing stuff you don't want to do. Like spending ALL weekend doing chores.

A better weekend would have been if you divided the work load between you and your W and then said, Let's get as much as we can finished by 2:00 and then let's shower and go out, just the two of us, and have some FUN together!

Doing stuff you did when you were dating.

You need to start enjoying each other again.

Don't put the cart before the horse. IOW, don't expect her to jump into the "How can I make Can happier wagon" until she feels reconnected w/ you.

So plan some fun stuff to do together.

As far as my sitch goes...like I said before, I almost lost my mind. Very scary time for me. So I was highly motivated to try to find my sanity again. MB gave me the road map and I simply followed it.

Marsh, I so wish you could have a conversation with my W. I see your point about plan A I will make more of an effort to structure weekends and evening better for UA.

This is proving more then difficult for a couple reasons. She says her need is space and every time I make an effort for UA or even the call with the Harleys; in her eyes I'm DJing because I'm not honoring what she is asking for therefore judging her approach and her IC. Ideas for how to get around this?

This is something a person in an A says. Why does she want her space from you? To do what? Go out w/o you? Not spend ANY time w/ you? Has she defined what this means? How much time does she want to spend apart during the week? How much time will she agree to spend w/ you a week?

Did you tell her you'd like to spend at least 15 hours together a week? If you did what did she say?

I'd be happy to talk to her, but seeing how she wasn't exactly thrilled to talk to Jennifer, I'm sure she'd be even less so w/ me.

Well it's offical. I have lost all ground in plan A. W had IC this evening and when she returned asked her when we could spend sometime together just the two of us, asked her where she would like to go for a short weekend. She said she didn't want to do that and I responded with asking how are we going to grow together without spending time together. She said she has nothing to give and is waiting for somthing to happen.

I lost it, asked her to leave, told her to get in or get out, she said It's not all her fault we are where we are. I asked her how she would feel if our son were being treated the way she is treating me. I told her I know nothing about her days, and when she sees the OM, told her I can't trust her because she has given me no reason to. Bad, bad, night.

I don't see hope at this point, I apparently don't have the ability to stick with Plan A and she refuses to spend time with me. Look like a recipe for a D if you ask me.

I'm sorry, but she really sounds like a woman in an A.

When did she start going to IC? After her EA or before?

Isn't there anyway you can step up the snooping? A PI, maybe?

Before you go to Plan D, you ought to read up on Plan B.

If she's not in an A, none of this makes sense.

Why wouldn't a M women w/ small children want to spend time alone w/ her H?

She says she doesn't want to force her feelings back, she is justing waiting.

Our pastor had a sermon about a month ago and it was about adultery. He said the reason people do it is simple. Their feelings, they are more important then anyone elses. They are more valuable in their eyes then spouses and children. They just matter more. She just matters more, she's more important

Okay, I need some help. Since last night I apologized and just tried to jump back on Plan A. Sent W a test saying "I love you"

This is what I received in return:
"Thank u, I want to be nice to eachother. I do not have the answers but I do know how I fell as do u. Until we can figure this out-whatever that is, let's be as good to eachother as we can be. I'm sorry for hurting you, please believe me.

Vets, Marsh, please help me with a response. I need your wisdom.

Say..."Let me get a sitter for a couple of hours tonight, and let's go out... to eat/catch a comedy act at a club/go for a walk/get a massage... NO RELATIONSHIP TALK...let's just go have some fun together."

Pepper,



This really sounds like she's having an A, doesn't it?

Scratch this.

I think she is still having an A, Can.

I'm sorry.

You really need to start focusing on Plan B.

In the meantime, hire a PI get your proof and expose.

DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

Sounds like an A to me. Went through the same thing with WW almost word for word. This usually happened when she was having a tough time with OM and I wasin plan A. Made me feel like a wet security blanket more than anything else. Took a while for me to figure out. Seems WW can pull my head in the fog right with her when she talks like that.

Sorry you're going throught this Can.

W just told me it's over for her, because of yesterday and a bunch of yesterdays. Yesterday was not a good day and, I could not help myself so the lb started flying. I made it clear to her that I was not going to be a friend of hers if she walked out the door and that I'm not leaving the house and the family, I made a decision, she can make hers.

We were suppose to go to NC as a family and now she doesn't want to go because she doesn't want to be around my family. Should I still take the kids or should I stay home with her?
I think I really messed things up last night. My plan is to remain in Plan A for the time being.

She had the nerve to tell me she was praying for clarity, what, like God is going to tell her that D is the answer, give me a break. As far as I can tell there is no A and I have been looking everywhere for evidence everywhere and found nothing.

My W is sitting in front of me wrapping presents and acting like nothing was said. How can she be so cold?!! I know that everyone here is going to sayd she having an A, unless they are throwing down in front of the kids at school, she doesn't have the time, her time is accountable for.

Is it possible she is just done with me, because she really feels we aren't went to be? Because she has changed into a more confident and independent women, which is totally the opposite of who I married. My IC says her confidence is probably coming from her job. She said to give her the space she has been askinf for and if she's not having an A then she may start moving towards me.

I think I should go to NC with the kids so she gets a taste of how life would be like without the kids everyday, the longest she has been without them is a couple days. Thoughts?