SMB this is the last time I will respond to you.

Do you see me trying to toss out ideas, some are good, and some are bad. But at least I am trying for solutions while all you try and do is slam me.

Ottert is an intelligent adult and will do only what is of benefit. He can handle some crazy brainstorming. Even though you cannot.

You are very limited in your thinking SMB and I think if you liked me more and did not hate me for being childless, that you would understand that I am tossing out ideas and NOT TRYING TO BE THE MORAL POLICE!!!!!

I am not Jesus, there is only one that can claim that honor.

I believe you, smb. I think tst was and is a good man who did something terrible, which he regrets and for which he has made amends. I didn't mean for this thread to be a vehicle for bashing him or other WSs and I'm sorry it happened.

Can we please keep this thread to the questions in my original post? Please! That's all I wanted.

Geez, Bubbles, I really don't care if you have children or not. My goodness! That's as silly as my saying you don't like me because I have kids. Quit thinking everyone is against you. I am against your current advice on this thread.

When I post here, my concern is for the MARRIAGES and what will help them be rebuilt. If advice is given that I believe will be HARMFUL, I will say so.

Ottert spent a lot of time and money on learning MB. If advice, from you or anyone else, encourages him to do something that takes him off the narrow path of working an MB recovery, I will most assuredly speak up.

Ottert, my biggest concern about this thread topic is the harm it can do to freshly wounded BS's.

Reading post after post about how affairs started is kind of like rubbing salt into the gaping open wounds of our newly BS's. It is stomach turning to read those kind of posts, and it is a topic you would generally find on TOW started by OW.

I think you would better serve your marital recovery by posting about how YOU are working on changing YOURSELF in your day-to-day interaction with your wife. Seeking advice on how to better meet ENs, or to brainstorm finding UA and how to spend it, or asking about whether certain behavior/words would be considered an LB...I think that would serve your recovery efforts much more effectively. I'm not saying you can't vent your frustration here, but from my own personal experience, I learned it was much more helpful for me, our marriage, and for tst if I did NOT vent here much. I know some of my rants were very hurtful to tst when he read them. Yes, he knew he deserved them. But dishing out what is DESERVED isn't always productive, helpful, or healing.

One of the outstanding features of this board is that in the main, people do not "toss out ideas", some good and some bad. They do not go in for "crazy brainstorming". They do not attack other posters for "limited thinking" when those posters suggest that only MB advice be given on this MB board. They give advice based on the MB principles and advice that Dr Harley gives.

This board is MarriageBuilders and it exists for the purpose of building marriages. Do you see MB-based advice as "TRYING TO BE THE MORAL POLICE!!!!!"? Why, if so?

Your suggestion that smb dislikes you because you are childless is baffling. I don't understand the reason for hysterical tone of your post.

Yes, we have to be careful not to become addicts ourselves. Addicted to our own pain, anger and desperation..and our spouses.
We have to be above that and work on recovering ourselves.
blessing

I have done nothing behind her back. She is in this room with me at this moment, knows I'm posting on MB, and checks my posts here every day or two. I am hiding nothing from her. I did not invite anyone to attack my wife. The rabble rousers found their way here on their own. I started this thread to see if it would confirm my beliefs on how many affairs start, and thanks to OurHouse, KiwiJ, GloveOil, atena, EAM, and tst, I was successful.

Does a WS's failure to acknowledge cheating impact the possibility of reconciliation? It would seem to?

I think that your reply is disingenuous, and I think you know it is.

I think you don't like the way this thread has turned into an attack on you.

I don't believe I've ranted about MrsO. In response to a few posters, I have referenced our situation and some of my continued frustrations.

As for posting about what I'm doing and seeking advice to recover myself and my marriage, I do this every week when I return the survey to Dr. Harley and when I talk with Kim on the phone. You've seen in the short span of this thread the kind of advice I get here. I didn't ask for advice on this thread, though some have given it unsolicited. I asked specific questions which required only a recounting of events, not advice.

I think the way affairs start is really quite simple, although you will hear a lot of detailed descriptions of individual paths. But, in essence, a WS decides that he or she wants to cheat and , then, does so. Some hide their intentions from themselves better than others, alluding to chance encounters or a perfect storm of circumstances etc.

Again, I got what I sought in the first 10 posts of this thread. Thank you all very much.

Perhaps we can lock this thread, then?

It is fine for a BS to ask this question. It is understandable, in my opinion, for a BS to doubt the commitment of a WS who does not "get it", and to be dubious about ever achieving a successful recovery.

However, I don't like the way you (ottert) disguised your misgivings about your wife's attitude in a seemingly simple question about how affairs start. That is what I refer to as disingenuous. I think you were talking about your own worries all along, and also trying to manipulate posters into supporting you without telling them of the advice you are receiving from the coaching centre about your own situation. I suspect that this advice is not entirely supportive of your position of wanting your wife to admit to an EA, hence you seek that support here.

Is Dr Harley insisting that your wife admit to an EA before recovery is possible?

I don't believe you have ranted about Mrs. O. This thread certainly opened the door up for her to be ranted about though. It may not have been your intention, but it happened anyway.

Do you understand my point about how hurtful this thread topic could be to new BS's? I didn't see you address that.

Excellent! Thread closed.