Of course, that should read "care' not "acre' in Pep's quote from me!

I ain't changing it!

Really Gack,

They deserve far far worse while the WW (and in this case who intentionally got pregnant while cheating ) deserve an intact family and to keep the child.

Sometimes, as a divorced BH with sole custody, the level of hatred of men on this site really gets me down.

Thank you Pep.

That's what MOST of us are trying to do.

In my opinion, wich is tainted by my experiance....... Yes, Really!

Really 6 years?

Is there REALLY an instance in this whole mess where everyone involved gets what they DESERVE???

DESERVE?

Where in the world does anyone ever get what they DESERVE???

I can name one instance where it's guaran-daym-teed, but I'm not ready for the Great Walk yet.

And hatred of MEN?

How about loathing of INFIDELITY? That's what I see here.

Please, feel free to use this comment:

.. and why not focus on MARRIAGE BUILDING ???

Which is the purpose of this forum.

.... instead of being drawn into any foolish arguments.

Dealan-de,

This thread in particular dismisses the rights of the bio dads. Some even suggesting lying on the birth certificate.

I reacted to the use the deserve word because in my opinion NONE of the waywards get what they actually deserve nor do the betrayed.

My H's name is on our daughter's birth certificate. Legally, he is her father. When a child is adopted, the birth certificate is changed to reflect the adoptive parents as the child's legal parents. Is that lying too?

Marriage Building.
Marriage Building.
Marriage Building.
Marriage Building.

Okay, I think I got it.

And I never thought you were the enemy, Pep. I vehemently deny that charge.

Speaking of marriage building, my H and are going away tomorrow to celebrate our anniversary. I'm so excited! It'll be our first night alone together since the baby was born. We're driving up to Solvang, which is about 3 hours away.

While you're on the 101, and passing Sherman Oaks, wave to me!

H and I love Solvang (who doesn't?)

Pep, I didn't know you were a So-Cal person too. Small world.

I'll think of you as we pass through Sherman Oaks.

My H and I have been going up to Solvang for our anniversary for years. Either there, or Catalina Island.

Definitely looking forward to cavorting with those wild Danish.

No one ON EARTH ever gets what they TRULY deserve...ever. To hope for it or yearn for it is a lesson in futility.

And in this particular situation the ONLY thing anyone can do when faced with it is to make a decision that has the least amount of nuclear fallout and radiation disease for all involved.

Everyone in this situation gets a slice of the hurt pie...every person from the OCs to the COMs to the betrayed to the waywards...the only thing the adults can do is try to make sure the portions are minimized for the children.

writer:

wassup

hope your weekend away is good - spouses definitely need time away from the kids.

These forums are funny. Some people are angry. Some people are sad. Some can move on. Some can't. Some are wise. Some are, well, not wise.

You, well, you're just a cool head. You get beat up a lot here but you handle it with grace and come out of it with your head held high. Yeah, you f'd up big time but you acknowledge it and also acknowledge how lucky you are to have a husband that took your sorry butt back

I appreciate the help you gave me. Probably won't work out like your sitch did, but that's life.

Take it easy and stay positive. The mansion that awaits you is a good one.

The trip was very nice. Short, but nice. The baby did great while we were gone. We did some shopping, hiked to Nojoqui Falls and had a picnic, drove around and looked at all the Christmas lights. We went to this little Italian place for dinner and I had the most amazing spinach and cheese ravioli in brown butter sauce. Oh, I will never think of pasta in the same way again.

Pep: I waved to you as we passed through Sherman Oaks.

InD: I've encountered all sorts of people on this site. It has been an invaluable source of support and information, but I figured out a long time ago that there's simply no way to please all of the people all of the time. I don't even try anymore. My H and I have found what works for us and we're happy with it, so I think that's what's important. I know not everyone will agree with how we're handling the situation, but that would be true no matter what I did. I don't mind hearing differing opinions. It's kind of interesting, in fact. And it probably helps that I'm just a tad sado-masochistic.

InD, it sounds like you're doing better. I know things will work out for you, one way or the other. They always say, that which doesn't kill us only makes us stronger. Who is this "they" anyway? I'd like to punch them sometimes.

Hang in there and have a good Christmas!

Vent time. Warning, this could get long. I don't even care if I get 2 by 4'd. I just need to get all of this out, because right now it has nowhere to go and it's festering like a latent infection.

Here are the two issues: Finances and Internet Porn/Lying. These are the two things that are tearing up my M right now, and I don't know what to do about them.

Finances: We are living in a financial hole the size of the Grand Canyon right now. By all estimates, we are around $275,000 in debt right now, which is approximately 6.5 times my H's annual salary. Our debts include an upside down mortgage, massive student loans, and credit cards. Our expenses far exceed our take-home pay, and even coming up with enough $ to buy groceries is a major challenge. We've been going to the food bank through our church, which helps some, but it doesn't cover everything. There are times when there isn't even enough to buy the baby's diapers.

I take 90% of the responsibility for all of this because of our OC situation. There was no way we could afford to have another child. I was working as a substitute teacher when our OC was born, and I lost my job because my hours were very irregular and not dependable and I couldn't find childcare with enough flexibility to allow me to continue subbing and there was no family nearby that could help out with that. The sub jobs were few and far between anyway because of the terrible budget problems in CA and the cuts to education. I haven't worked since June 08. I have been looking for a job for a year now, but the unemployment rate in my area is atrocious and keeps getting worse. You literally can't find a minimum wage position flipping burgers at McDonald's around here anymore.

This is taking a huge toll on our entire family. It seems all my H and I ever do anymore is fight about money. I don't remember the last conversation we had that didn't have something to do with money. My H's biggest beef is that I don't want to sit down and talk about finances with him. I admit that having a root canal without anesthesia sounds more pleasant. Every time we talk about money, we end up yelling and the LB's start flying like mad.

I do want to figure out our finances, but I don't know where to start. My H has all of our bills set up to be managed online. I don't know the websites or passwords or account numbers or anything. I've asked him for these, and he has said he will get them to me, but it never happens. Then, I get yelled at when we run out of money or something bounces because I'm not helping him figure things out. How can I figure things out when I don't have any of the necessary information. I'm pretty sure he has credit cards in his name only that I don't know anything about (other than my suspicions that they exist, of course).

I am so frustrated. As soon as my H gets a paycheck, he starts sending all of the money to our bills and then there's nothing left. We go to the store and try to buy some groceries and our bank card won't go through. The credit cards are maxed out. The savings account has been empty for a long time.

I know my H wants to support our family without any help from anyone, but it just isn't happening and it's taking a huge toll on our relationship and literally every aspect of our lives. I feel like a complete failure and loser because I can't find a job. I've had a few close calls, but ultimately, I didn't get the positions, some of which only required a high school diploma (I have a master's degree!). It is unbelievably frustrating.

Internet Porn/Lying: We had a big fight the other night about this that lasted until 4 a.m., all because I had some unanswered questions about my H's past actions. I just found out about all of this last January, so long after our OC was born and my H had supposedly committed himself to the M and to being O&H. At the time, I was overwhelmed with having a new baby in the house again and getting next to no sleep and we just did what we'd always done when he dropped the bomb - we fought about it for awhile and then swept it under the rug.

But the issue kept haunting me, so I brought it up. And my H got steaming mad! He says I'm always bringing up his past mistakes and throwing them in his face and not letting him forget about them. For him, this all happened a long time ago (6 years now) and he just wants to forget about it and move on. But I only found out about it less than a year ago, and I don't feel like I ever got all of the answers I was looking for.

I guess I'm trying to make sense of my H's actions, but they don't make sense to me. He admitted to a lot of very despicable things. The day after our big fight, he told me about one of the websites he frequented, so I checked it out. It was absolutely disgusting! It was specifically geared towards gays, lesbians, and bestiality and the stories on there were things no sane person should ever have to hear. My H also admitted to engaging in internet sex with multiple strangers - both women and men - on numerous sites. He even admitted to reading stories involving sex acts with teenagers.

I don't know how to come to terms with all of this. I freely admit I am no saint, but my A at least didn't involve anything weird or abnormal, like the stuff my H was apparently involved in. He says that he was just reading the stories and that he would never actually want to do any of the things that he was reading about. He also says that he didn't consider the internet sex to be real sex since there was no actual physical contact. But there was still a real person out there that he was doing these things with, whether he could see them or not. I don't see how that doesn't count.

I feel like these are just some of the issues (the 2 major ones) that are really standing in the way of R our M. It just seems like there's a huge distance between my H and I these days, and I don't have any idea how to bridge to gap. I do love him, but I don't feel remotely close to him. I don't trust him. I keep waiting for that next bomb, wondering what else he hasn't told me. It seems there's always something else, something he doesn't "remember" for months or even years at a time, which then gets dropped on me out of left field once his memories start to resurface, or whatever it is that they do.

Is there any hope that my H and I can have a normal, close, intimate relationship after everything that we have been through? Sometimes, trying to fix this M feels so much like beating a dead horse.

If you got this far, thank you for listening. I've been feeling so hopeless and depressed the past few days. I think I've lost even the smallest pinprick of that light at the end of the tunnel.