Thats really funny guys??! Lets get back to marriage building.

DUDE

This makes me

I feel you are in a herculean struggle to restore yourself.

I pray God's Grace for you.

It's not just waiting around for someone to make amends. Those of us whose WS walked off will also never learn the truth about our own lives. Unlike a truly repentent WS who works with the MB program which includes radical honesty, the WS that ran off did so with the intent of making as many of their lies appear truths as possible. The best we can do, as abandoned BS's, is make educated guesses as to what was a lie and what was not. I can only estimate the begining of WXH's affair prior to d-day based on information I've learned from other sources. Even then there is doubt - because it's entirely possible OW was having more than one affair when she was discovered with OM#1 (WXH was at least OM#2 - at least the 2nd she was caught with). All of my memories from the period of time in which I was married could be a lie. This includes my son's childhood. It is a horrible thing to come to terms with the destruction of your own son's childhood memories.

This is exactly right.

Pep, seriously, life is pretty good. The fact that I [censored] about her etc. does not preclude me, at all, from enjoying life. I have been having a blast, travelling, playing tournament golf, hanging with friends etc.
My focus is very much on my life and work and kids.

Ottert

I craved humility and an apology from Squid for a year after d-day. Then I got it in a flurry of tears in Nandos!

It felt good. Made zero difference to our recovery. It is the investment in the plan, not the words we say, real or emulated that heal us IME. What you care is what you DO.

all blessings

Zelmo, have you considered going ROCKSTAR?

No, I've considered rocking chair.

I'm not trying to climb on a high horse here, but one of the principles I've learned in A.A. is to "keep my side of the street clean." Yes, I invested a lot (mentally, emotionally, financially) into my marriage. But I did not immerse myself and lose my identity as a result. So, while my WW caused me untold pain and sorrow, I am not going to hold my breath and wait for an amend that may never come.

A.A.'s Ninth Step is all about making amends to those we had harmed. We do so not to make their lives better, or to give them closure, or any other sort of healing that might occur -- if it does, that's wonderful -- but to bring us our own recovery and peace within our souls that we "did the right thing."

So, while two days ago I felt quite comfortable with the possibility that WW may never come back, today I feel a bit of sadness. Regardless of my feelings, the facts are that I have no control over what my WW thinks, says or does. All I can do is get through the day in the best fashion possible.

I guess what I'm saying is that I have to recognize and own my pain, but realize that it's MY pain. Therefore, it's also MY HEALING.

This thread keeps reminding me of the story of the prodigal son. The brother thought his dad should DEMAND an apology and deliver PUNISHMENT. The father had already forgiven the prodigal. Whose hearts were healed that day? The prodigal? The father? The brother?

That's funny, it reminds me more of The Battle of Jutland. Only with even more piss and fire.

Fred, at what point will you be willing to make ammends for the wrongs you are possibly now becoming aware of on "your side of the street" of your marriage? I'm thinking Pre-A here.

Great analogy PM.

I think the Prodigals heart was transformed that day.

tst, if you read my thread, you will see that I have already done so. You will note (and I'll repeat it here) that I said I bawled like a baby -- cried in a way I haven't in decades. I think part of my healing and baby-step progress forward is based on my efforts to learn, grow and heal.

Thanks Fred!

I think the critical part of your personal healing comes from your willingness to acknowledge your own shortcomings and being humble enough to ask God for His help in removing them. You've done well sir.

I doubt the prodigal's was healed if he was not evolved enough to realize he owed the father an apology.

I did this, as well. I wrote my WW two long, heartfelt letters, acknowledging what I perceived to be my shortcomings and asking forgiveness. She kept right on lying and cheating and did not even acknowledge receipt.
You can only do so much.

I couldn't stay away after reading this gem.

You do understand, don't you Mel, that MrsOttert DOES disagree it was a betrayal?

Nevermind "affair", "infidelity" or whatever descriptor you say doesn't apply. I have conceded multiple times here and to MrsOttert that what she did was not an "affair" in the strictest definition, so you can drop that canard. She will not even cop to the concept that she betrayed my trust. She has SCREAMED that she did not betray me in any way.

As recently as October, in Steve Harley's presence in Minneapolis, when Steve asked her, "Do you understand why (ottert) feels you betrayed him?", MrsOttert said "No, I don't."

But he was, he believed that he didn't deserve forgiveness. He asked to become one of the workers. In other words, he owned his stuff.

I just don't understand folks that don't apologize for their wrongs. I think they are cowards.