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I have read so many posts here where the betrayed spouse ends up shaking their heads in disbelief when they see who their Wayward left them for.

I am wondering if this is because:
1) They are insecure and this gives them a chance to feel superior?
2) They are able to exert control over the OP as they can be in charge?
3) They are so needy in one area they will cling on to anyone who looks like they can fill the void?

Is this a delayed "They will never go out with me cause they are too good for me" syndrome? And it astounds me how long they can remain in the fog. What is it up to 2 - 3 years of no contact?... please tell me this can't be so.

In any case it seems that it is yet another red flag to give insight into what the wayward spouse is responding to. Who ever would have thought that if you are reasonably good looking, responsible, loyal, trustworthy, intelligent, hard working..... That these qualities would actually work against you.

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I dont really know but thinking about it, perhaps the married waywards have limited choices if they want a lover outside the marriage. Think about it. Who else but a complete dirtbag would sleep with another mans wife?

No one would. The waywards are NOT going to ever get a GOOD person, a decent person, or a moral person. NO.

They are going to get an ugly, dirtbag like themselves. This is the only choice they have. No one else would enter into that kind of adulterous relationship. No one else would be that terrible. They have to be terrible to make love with another mans wife. They have to be terribly stupid to do that also.

Can you see a wayward spouse meeting a really good, attractive, nice, sweet, moral and decent person and trying to convince them to have sex with them??

That kind of person WOULD NOT TOUCH ANOTHER MANS WIFE OR ANOTHER WIVE'S HUSBAND. They would be too good a quality person to ever think of doing that.

No, the waywards have to pick people with no morals, drinkers, the addicted, diseased, shifty, stupid, homeless or mentally unstable to seduce and convince and lie to and draw into an affair.... since this is who is available to them being as they are MARRIED,,,and all!

No good or smart person would ever think of hurting a sacred marriage by touching or starting an affair with someone's spouse.

Last edited by Bubbles4U; 12/31/09 06:12 AM.
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Who ever would have thought that if you are reasonably good looking, responsible, loyal, trustworthy, intelligent, hard working..... That these qualities would actually work against you.

This kind of person, a good decent person, would stay far away from a spouse of another person. They would never want to be tempted by or think of touching someones spouse even if that spouse tried to seduce them or lied to them. It is only "another person with no morals and no brains who would ever enter into an adulterous affair.

Adulterous spouse's choices of lovers are limited. To people such as themselves. No one else will have them...they are MARRIED and most people will respect that.

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Of course, they're affairing down.

By definition, anyone that would do that kind of thing is low-rent in the first place.

Sometimes being low-rent is a temporary condition, of course. Proof comes in the FWS's that post here and R their marriages.

But for some it's a way of life.

Last edited by AheadOfTheCurve; 12/31/09 07:12 AM. Reason: Adding a thought.

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What Bubbles said.


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http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/u...388#Post2282388
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Originally Posted by AheadOfTheCurve
Sometimes being low-rent a temporary condition, of course, but for some it's a way of life.

And if its a way of life.. The Wayward is the answer to prayer for their life..

One can only hope that Waywards will come to their senses quickly. We have to let reality come down on them and hope that they won't run away from the truth. Many people spend their life running from the truth and their marriage is one of the places they think they can hide from personal responsibility.

The BS ends up being hurt but ultimatley gets set free. The Wayward has that choice but probably would rather hide with their excuses.

Its a nasty business all around hmm?

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Hi BCB !

Quote
I am wondering if this is because:
1) They are insecure and this gives them a chance to feel superior?
2) They are able to exert control over the OP as they can be in charge?
3) They are so needy in one area they will cling on to anyone who looks like they can fill the void?

I think the answer lies in all the above, plus some more.

Some WS, particularly WWs seem to affair down so that OP clearly does not present an alternative to their BS. Almost as if there is a subconscious buffer in place to prevent an affair marriage ensuing.

Finally, Harley's model of the Lovebank is no respecter of persons: whoever superinvests in our lovebank can engender feelings of "love" that can lead to an affair whether they are upscale or downmarket.

In my own case OM was such a life cripple I was hurt that Squid could ever consider him as a partner. But hey, as she said to me in her affair pomp "he is the exact opposite of you". I said then "thank you I have rarely been more complimented".

all blessings


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Originally Posted by Bubbles4U
Who ever would have thought that if you are reasonably good looking, responsible, loyal, trustworthy, intelligent, hard working..... That these qualities would actually work against you.

This kind of person, a good decent person, would stay far away from a spouse of another person. They would never want to be tempted by or think of touching someones spouse even if that spouse tried to seduce them or lied to them. It is only "another person with no morals and no brains who would ever enter into an adulterous affair.

Adulterous spouse's choices of lovers are limited. To people such as themselves. No one else will have them...they are MARRIED and most people will respect that.

Hi Bubbles !

Most of the FWS I have met or worked with have not WANTED to be tempted by the OP, at least not before mutual lovebank-filling escalated. Usually the initial EN-meeting is instinctive and unintended.

WS are not a separate lower breed than we who have not committed adultery, Bubbles, they are just sinners whose sins happen to have far greater consequences than some you and I have committed.

Finally your assertion that
Quote
most people will respect that
I'm afraid is probably not true. With adultery occurring in almost sixty five percent of marriages "most" folks would seem to succumb to the temptation of adultery.

Happy new year !


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I agree with the idea the OP are always immoral scumbags. The hard part is that I have to accept that my W was able to stoop to that level, even if it was only temporary.

It is still hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that my W could not see through all of the crap OM was telling her. He was telling her how beautiful, and sexy she is, (which BTW is one of her EMs that I always did a pretty good job of meeting if I do say so myself). But, she was still eating all of that crap up with a giant spoon. All of this was via facebook chats, some texting, and a few phone conversations. That is up until the day she went to meet him in a hotel room.

OM was married, but separated. He was telling my W that he wanted to save his own M while he was convincing her that her own M was not worth saving. How could she be so blind, and stupid not to see through his line of bs, and that he didn�t really care about her or her happiness. He was just trying to lure her into bed, and it worked.

I am still trying to figure out how such a beautiful, intelligent, strong woman with high morals, and integrity could fall so completely for such a scam orchestrated by such a lowlife piece of crap.

He had her so completely fooled that she was ready to throw away a really good marriage, and rip our family apart. She even used her own family (children, parents, and sister) to help keep her secret.


ME: BS (50)
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A started 1-13-09
D-Day 1-20-09
D-Day (finally admitted having sex) 10-08-09
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Not all OP are married, the OW in my sitch was single and she was not ugly or stupid as a matter of fact she was very attractive and had a couple of degrees, she definitely had no morals or integrity though because she chases married men all the time.

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Originally Posted by throughthefog
I agree with the idea the OP are always immoral scumbags.
Almost, but not always. There are certainly lying scumbag WHs that convince their OWs that they are single. These OWs are usually devastated when they discover the truth. Once in a while they show up here. I do feel for them, but they are the only OP's that I feel for.

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TTF, Your wife was the OP in her situation. Is she an immoral scumbag ?

BTW the "married but separated" thing is probably a lie. Affairees lie a lot to each other and everyone else.

OM in my sit told my Squid that his R was in the toilet and that was a fat lie.


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"I have read so many posts here where the betrayed spouse ends up shaking their heads in disbelief when they see who their Wayward left them for."

The less desireable OP's want someone in their life and because of market demand are willing to settle for what ever they can get. Sharing a married person to them is better then no person.

For the OP's that are highly desireable because of market demand are out there for the ego boost of how many notches they can put on their pistol grip.

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Tabby
I stand corrected. Sometimes the OP is fooled into getting involved with a M person. That is some pretty sick stuff also.

Bob
I am still struggling with all of the aspects of what my W did, including getting involved with a Married man. I really don't know a whole lot about the OM other than what my W told me that he told her. I am pretty sure that there are a lot of things that he told her that weren't true. She fell for it, and that is another hurt that I am trying to get past.


ME: BS (50)
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M: 9 1/2
A started 1-13-09
D-Day 1-20-09
D-Day (finally admitted having sex) 10-08-09
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I have heard that statement about affairing up many times and it is actually one of the main points in the book Melody has != reason to not have an affair.

But the thing that strikes me is that if your WH/WW is affairing down, then the OP is affairing UP! so you don�t always affair down (or up for that matter). what seems to be more common is that affair partners are not LOGICAL as Dr. Harley says.

I�ve given this some though but I don�t realize what the key issue about which they are not "logical" or similar is. Morally they are both in the same boat.

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Originally Posted by Bob_Pure
TTF, Your wife was the OP in her situation. Is she an immoral scumbag ?
Bob, my H was the OP in OW's marriage, and yes, he was an immoral scumbag. Any level of involvement in another person's marriage made him that, but in addition to the basic fact, my H:

Screwed OW in her marital bed. He spent at least one whole night there on a rare occasion when her H and two children were all away on separate trips.

Went abroad with OW when she was working. On at least one of these occasions her H wanted to go and was talked out of it so that my H could go.

Sent text messages to OW's phone that were discovered by her 15 year-old son. Her son ran out of credit one day and pinched his mother's phone without asking. He read "hundreds" of "disgusting" sex messages between her and my H. He showed them to his 17-year old sister, and between them they decided that they must never tell their father because the marriage would break up. They knew that it had almost broken up over their mother's previous affair. They kept this terrible secret to themselves and occasionally looked at the phone and saw the ongoing affair. I cannot imagine what this did to them.

When their father told them of the affair, after I exposed to him some 4 years later, the son immediately said "is it the English guy?" OWH, horrified, asked what he knew of this and he told him about the text messages that he had read years earlier. Those poor kids. My H took a crucial part of their childhoods away from them.

Back to my H: He went abroad with OW on my daughter's 15th birthday when she was working with his company for work experience. She was there for two weeks, having a lovely time, except for the final two days, when he left her to travel to central London on the tube in the rush hour, and do her job and eat lunch alone, so that he could screw OW in a hotel in Bratislava. He kissed her on the birthday morning he left, told her that he was sorry but work was work, that she must be grown up, and then he put on his work suit, picked up a briefcase and left her, to go and have sex as I've described.

There are many more "scumbag" things he did, but I consider these the worst, and quite enough for this thread!

He began to stop being a scumbag the day he gave up that job. He is not a scumbag any more, but there was a long de-scumbagging process. He was a complete and utter scumbag both for having an affair and for being an OP. Wouldn't you say the same about Squid?


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Originally Posted by ccbis
But the thing that strikes me is that if your WH/WW is affairing down, then the OP is affairing UP! so you don�t always affair down (or up for that matter). what seems to be more common is that affair partners are not LOGICAL as Dr. Harley says.
How so? First off, one has to be a wayward to affair up or down. A single OP, while being involved in an affair, is not cheating on a spouse so there's no up or down to go from. Two waywards in an affair (i.e. both are WSs as well as OPs) are preditors on both their own marriages and their OP's marriages. From the wayward's perspective, the fact that their OP is scummy enough to go for a married person makes them automatically lower than their BS. This is in addition to any other feature - age, beauty, wealth, social status, intelligence, etc. And interestingly enough, many OPs seem to fall short of the BS on many of these factors as well.

In my case, OW is older; any "beauty" is fabricated with hair-dye, tanning salons and anti-wrinkle cream; she works a minimum wage job, uneducated, very unintelligent and has no family wealth and only a few friends that she works with. From OWH's side, my WXH is shorter, bald, has a lower paying job with no pension, no assets or savings, no friends of his own, has an education he never used and no particularly useful or marketable skills. Even aside from the scumminess of being an OP, he's a step or two below her BH. Absolutely, they BOTH affaired down - in all respects.

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Originally Posted by throughthefog
I agree with the idea the OP are always immoral scumbags. The hard part is that I have to accept that my W was able to stoop to that level, even if it was only temporary.

It is still hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that my W could not see through all of the crap OM was telling her. He was telling her how beautiful, and sexy she is, (which BTW is one of her EMs that I always did a pretty good job of meeting if I do say so myself). But, she was still eating all of that crap up with a giant spoon. All of this was via facebook chats, some texting, and a few phone conversations. That is up until the day she went to meet him in a hotel room.

OM was married, but separated. He was telling my W that he wanted to save his own M while he was convincing her that her own M was not worth saving. How could she be so blind, and stupid not to see through his line of bs, and that he didn�t really care about her or her happiness. He was just trying to lure her into bed, and it worked.

I am still trying to figure out how such a beautiful, intelligent, strong woman with high morals, and integrity could fall so completely for such a scam orchestrated by such a lowlife piece of crap.

He had her so completely fooled that she was ready to throw away a really good marriage, and rip our family apart. She even used her own family (children, parents, and sister) to help keep her secret.
It sounds like your WW and my WW were twins separated at birth.


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Originally Posted by BCboy
Affairing down - Why is that?


James1:13-15 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

So how can anyone affair up? They can't! It's impossible.

When I consider my actions for what they were; evil & sinful, there is no way to exclaim anything other than, I stepped DOWN in order to participate in such a heinous crime.





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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I fully agree with tst. There is no up in adultery. It's all down...way down.

In my sitch, OM was single. If you saw him, you'd say, huh???? The only thing I can figure is, at that point, I was so self-centered that anyone who met the needs I had would fit the bill. I'm still trying to figure out what the blank I was thinking. It was like trading a hero from a Bronte novel for someone from the cast of Dumb and Dumber. Thank God my Bronte hero decided to stick with me smile

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