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I AM CERTAIN THAT I WILL NOT REMAIN MARRIED TO A MAN WHO IS IN LOVE WITH ANOTHER WOMAN.
Me:BW
Dday:12/31/09-Found MB 01/03/10
3DstepChildren24&20
PlanA:01/03/10
PlanB:03/25/10
D final 11/15/10
"I dare you to find some time and some place to be silent for longer than usual; a few moments, a few minutes, a few hours. Listen to your heart, listen to your soul; and most importantly, listen to the silence to see what it sounds like and how it speaks to you."
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I think that might be all I have in me for tonight.
Me:BW
Dday:12/31/09-Found MB 01/03/10
3DstepChildren24&20
PlanA:01/03/10
PlanB:03/25/10
D final 11/15/10
"I dare you to find some time and some place to be silent for longer than usual; a few moments, a few minutes, a few hours. Listen to your heart, listen to your soul; and most importantly, listen to the silence to see what it sounds like and how it speaks to you."
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He's an addict.
They all talk like this.
They all play the victim.
Do not, under any circumstances, believe an addict's lies.
You promise you won't?
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I think that might be all I have in me for tonight. Your'e in Ohio. I'm in California. Go to bed. Take care.
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Thank you, I don't think I could have made it through this without your help!!! Good night. 
Me:BW
Dday:12/31/09-Found MB 01/03/10
3DstepChildren24&20
PlanA:01/03/10
PlanB:03/25/10
D final 11/15/10
"I dare you to find some time and some place to be silent for longer than usual; a few moments, a few minutes, a few hours. Listen to your heart, listen to your soul; and most importantly, listen to the silence to see what it sounds like and how it speaks to you."
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Well not much sleep last not, to be expected I guess. Him not in the house helped my stress level.
This morning I received an email from him stating:
"Good morning! I guess though I have not seen much good in it yet! I have a question. You told me that you thought anyone and anything could be forgiven. I truly feel you believe that and that is pretty amazing. My question is this if you knew I was trying to make things work for me and wanted to be there for us would we be able to fix this? If you ever need some perspective spend a night at my parents! There is No way I would ever want to live like that. I really think some space from everyone and everything would help me. I never really understood how much you cared but I am starting to. I guess what I am asking is do I still have a decision to make or have I screwed things up badly enough that there would be no hope? I know you believe anything is fixable but there are limits and before you answer you need to decide if I have crossed that line. I obviously do not need an answer this morning. It is a tough question. I am really considering going away this weekend BY MYSELF with no phones and no computers. Time to think. I mean really think but I need to know what I am thinking about! Anyway I will be home after work to run the dogs and if I am staying at Moms again I might want to pick up some underwear as I forgot to pack them!"
Now what is anyone's suggestion? My plans for today were to not do much of anything but think, make some phone calls, and go to MC this evening by myself.
I think for right now I need to maintain some space for myself. I am just not sure how to answer the email or to not answer.
Me:BW
Dday:12/31/09-Found MB 01/03/10
3DstepChildren24&20
PlanA:01/03/10
PlanB:03/25/10
D final 11/15/10
"I dare you to find some time and some place to be silent for longer than usual; a few moments, a few minutes, a few hours. Listen to your heart, listen to your soul; and most importantly, listen to the silence to see what it sounds like and how it speaks to you."
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I also have a question, If I were to call the Harley's - what help can they provide to just me at this point in this big mess that is my M.
Me:BW
Dday:12/31/09-Found MB 01/03/10
3DstepChildren24&20
PlanA:01/03/10
PlanB:03/25/10
D final 11/15/10
"I dare you to find some time and some place to be silent for longer than usual; a few moments, a few minutes, a few hours. Listen to your heart, listen to your soul; and most importantly, listen to the silence to see what it sounds like and how it speaks to you."
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Do you have a plan B letter? Do you have all your ducks in a row? You have some time. You can respond when you feel confident.
Good sign tho. WS must "walk the talk" too.
Me; W 46
Him; H 46
2 girls
DD19
DD16
Dated/Married total 28 years.
..I am learning and working on myself.
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Morning.
IMHO this email is good.
Plan is is doing its job. Step it up !!!
What he needs to hear is that there really is a possibility of real M inspite of his HUGE mistake.
He is peek his head out of the alien body to see if its safe to come out yet so is the pain and damage he has caused not repairable.
This is good. HE is afraid that he may have messed it up to a point of no return. If you choose to you an see selfishness in this act as well because if he fears that you will hate him and punish him for the rest of his life why invest in R. If you were the WW he possibly cannot image that he could ever get past it.
Here is where you have some thinking to do.
Do you think you will ever be able to move past his A.
I dont mean right now I mean in the distant future.
Do you have faith that a M can be recovered after such devastation. I dont know if you so I cant answer if you can get past it or not what I can tell you is that MB can give you great tools that are proven to help you do just that.
No only can you recover you M you can have a better one.
If you belive that it can then you need to show him hope.
Now is the time you need to step up plan A.
You need to give me a glimmer of hope that he wont be paying for his error the REST OF HIS LIFE. He needs to see that you still have the capacity to love him inspite of his acts.
Just to be clear I am not saying he gets a free pass I am saying he needs to hear from you that things can be better in the future.
Simultaneously you have to set up boundaies of whats acceptable and whats not. All those things you spoke alout last night you need to stick with and demand the kind of M you want. Offer the same in return.
So if you are still in this marathon and still belive in R tell him you are in and YES you will be able to move past it if he and you work together at it.
We took a few sessions with Jennifer at MB , it saved our lives. Perhaps instead of spending with your MC the money is better spent here.
We only took 4 sessions and IMO it was well worth the money.
FBW(me)- 45
FWH- 53
D-day 4/29/08
Moving forward pursuing happiness & a loving Marriage with DH.
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I also have a question, If I were to call the Harley's - what help can they provide to just me at this point in this big mess that is my M. YES THEY ARE A LIFE LINE. How ever do not expect IC or focus on the A. They focus on rebuilding and how to get you re-connected and on the way to recovery rather than analyse the A . CALL THEM ASAP if you are even considering it. It will be the best thing you have done yet for you and your WH and your M. Stay away from Plan B for now!!!!!! P.S. Your M is not as big a mess as you think it is. I am not saying its not in trouble its just that relative to the other COMPLICATED stories on here I am sorry to say yours is pretty common and is unfolding as most do. Which in of itself is good.
Last edited by wannamoveforward; 02/02/10 08:18 AM. Reason: Added P.S.
FBW(me)- 45
FWH- 53
D-day 4/29/08
Moving forward pursuing happiness & a loving Marriage with DH.
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[quote][/quote]
"Good morning! I guess though I have not seen much good in it yet! I have a question. You told me that you thought anyone and anything could be forgiven. I truly feel you believe that and that is pretty amazing. My question is this if you knew I was trying to make things work for me and wanted to be there for us would we be able to fix this? If you ever need some perspective spend a night at my parents! There is No way I would ever want to live like that. I really think some space from everyone and everything would help me. I never really understood how much you cared but I am starting to. I guess what I am asking is do I still have a decision to make or have I screwed things up badly enough that there would be no hope? I know you believe anything is fixable but there are limits and before you answer you need to decide if I have crossed that line. I obviously do not need an answer this morning. It is a tough question. I am really considering going away this weekend BY MYSELF with no phones and no computers. Time to think. I mean really think but I need to know what I am thinking about! Anyway I will be home after work to run the dogs and if I am staying at Moms again I might want to pick up some underwear as I forgot to pack them!"
I am making this my initial response.
1. I need some time, space, and perspective, so you should probably pack more underwear.
2. Please feel free to spend time with the dogs, I will be going to counseling tonight. Please be gone by the time I return.
3. Please pick up dogs from groomers tomorrow.
4. I will let you know what you have to think about later this week.
That is all I have at this point, right now I am trying to make a list and determine where I want to see this M go.
Me:BW
Dday:12/31/09-Found MB 01/03/10
3DstepChildren24&20
PlanA:01/03/10
PlanB:03/25/10
D final 11/15/10
"I dare you to find some time and some place to be silent for longer than usual; a few moments, a few minutes, a few hours. Listen to your heart, listen to your soul; and most importantly, listen to the silence to see what it sounds like and how it speaks to you."
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I am by no means a vet on these boards and I myself am no where near personal recovery. I see problems and big  in his email. It sounds to me like a typical cake eating response. I wouldn't be too surprised if he was going away for the weekend with OW. He makes sure to state that he would be somewhere with no phones and no computer and he is going to "think". This means that YOU will not be able to get a hold of him. He wants to know that you will still be there when he gets back, in case it isn't so rosy with OW. He also stated that "ALL" could be forgiven. IOW, you will forgive me again if I go away with OW for the weekend, right? I like the fact that he isn't comfortable staying with his parents. He needs to feel uncomfortable a bit  I would be careful how you respond to him. Don't lose any of that power you were gaining from the exercise Pepperband had you do. She is a godsend and I am glad to have had her assisting me on my journey. As a matter of fact, I would post your response on here and ask for help to make sure it states what you want it to in a way that would be beneficial. You are doing GREAT. Keep listening to the great advice given by the vets and take extra great care of yourself.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING  Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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I see the same red flag with the going away for the weekend thing, but am unsure of how to respond at this point.
I am just tired and drained.
Me:BW
Dday:12/31/09-Found MB 01/03/10
3DstepChildren24&20
PlanA:01/03/10
PlanB:03/25/10
D final 11/15/10
"I dare you to find some time and some place to be silent for longer than usual; a few moments, a few minutes, a few hours. Listen to your heart, listen to your soul; and most importantly, listen to the silence to see what it sounds like and how it speaks to you."
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Posts: 8,240
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That's why I think it would be best to get some advice on here. Write a draft of what you want to get across to him and see what the others have to say about it. Sometimes we think that what we are writing gets our point across but there are times we are weak in what we are saying.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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Right now the only response I feel I can give is for him to not be here tonight.
Me:BW
Dday:12/31/09-Found MB 01/03/10
3DstepChildren24&20
PlanA:01/03/10
PlanB:03/25/10
D final 11/15/10
"I dare you to find some time and some place to be silent for longer than usual; a few moments, a few minutes, a few hours. Listen to your heart, listen to your soul; and most importantly, listen to the silence to see what it sounds like and how it speaks to you."
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 614
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i would also like to call him on the red flag of going to think this weekend.
Me:BW
Dday:12/31/09-Found MB 01/03/10
3DstepChildren24&20
PlanA:01/03/10
PlanB:03/25/10
D final 11/15/10
"I dare you to find some time and some place to be silent for longer than usual; a few moments, a few minutes, a few hours. Listen to your heart, listen to your soul; and most importantly, listen to the silence to see what it sounds like and how it speaks to you."
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Posts: 35,996
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Missy:
The following is from my carrot/stick thread...Offering forgiveness and understanding.
By this I mean .... suggesting to the confused foggy affair-addicted spouse that there is HOPE for the marriage even though what they are doing is awful ... there is a map leading to home
Often their thinking is thus: "It's too late now. I've done too much damage ... my spouse could never forgive me, so I might as well continue with the affair."
You, the sane spouse, need to squash that belief that they can never be forgiven for what they have done.
You do not need to forgive them right away, but offer them the hope of a future where all is forgiven.
You can word it something like this:
All of us do things we regret. When I think of some of my past mistakes, I am extremely grateful for having been forgiven by those I've hurt. I want to be in the position to offer you that same grace. I have been forgiven, so I understand what it feels like to be in a position where you hope forgiveness is possible. It is possible.
Since you are currently in plan A, I think you should stick with plan A - for now. But, prepare for plan B - quietly and without projecting your preparations in such a way WH can see them. Just my opinion.
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I also have a question, If I were to call the Harley's - what help can they provide to just me at this point in this big mess that is my M. My guess is, Harleys would suggest that you be the lighthouse, a bright beacon shining the way home. The foggy cannot SEE that there is a way back into the marriage. My cat is helping my type at the moment .... SIMBA !!!!!
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Missy, I want to warn you, if you copy and paste my words completely as written, they can be googled.
.... just be careful=l
SIMBA is rubbing hisface o my hands as I typoe
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Be The Lighthouse - by Ark I hope some others find comfort from the storm...
Your spouse is in huge conflict....
the good news is and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...
the competition we believe that exist with the OP is a shallow empty reflection of Gods light in this world...
It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush
their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now....though the need to go back again again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong...they do not like what they are doing...
their actions towards you, the children, the OP, and themselves...keep them from engaging in any type of real interactions...with real depth and truth
all they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life...
yet the filling is way too fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lays down regardless of whom is next to them....
they are the living cliche..of no matter where you go to hide...there YOU are...
he or she is lost to themselves...
and you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home....even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that...
You become the lighthouse..you fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary...
see just visualize yourself as a lighthouse...
Your offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get...
you invite them towards it...let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way....
they are untrustable right now...
but you know that...so they can't hurt you right now...they will spend great energy to convince others differently...but you know better...
you show the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions.....
set clear boundaries that the OP is not part of your childrens lives....
without lovebusting...
offer alternatives that let them see the children...but be clear that the OP is to have no access to them...
you fill the childrens lives with stability....they deserve it and need it more than anything else....
Do not discuss and or powerstruggle with them on irrational movements...seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly....
your spouse is very lonely and sad right now..but that is OK...no one can stay very long in that chaos...it is wearisome to the soul...
and remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos...and eventually they will see that you are the only one...who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most...
be the lighthouse....
OK that's really out there I know....
strength to you all..
ARK
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