Hello to all, I am new to this. My life has come crashing down 24 days ago. We were out to dinner with casual friends only to find out my H and his W have become very close. My WS claims to be in love with her, it is the most love he has ever known and now he is pretty sure that he never felt that way about me and that he was going to wait to marry me , thinking he had cold feet, but married me anyway. We have been married 12 years now and for the most of those years it was great. Things started to go down hill when I returned to school to finish a degree. Then about a year ago my WS started traveling a great deal and then stuck up friendship with his co-worker/friend's wife during a mutual vacation. They began email, text and phoning shortly after vacation - 18 weeks ago, it became physical about 12 weeks ago. After I found out about the A, he and I wrote each other letters expressing how we felt. His letter contained many questions, part of which could I forgive him, and then on to say we have a marriage worth saving and I never stopped loving you. Now after the contact with the OW has not stopped he is telling me that he wrote that thinking I would say no I cannot forgive you and we are done. He said he did not know how to respond to my saying yes to forgiveness, now lets go to counseling and work on our marriage. Now he says my response trapped him. I am so confused, lost, hurt, and betrayed like many of you out there. I have done a MB/his needs her needs/surviving an affair crash course and now trying to implement plan a. However the A and the contact is not stopping between them. I do not know what to do or how to proceed. I love this person and we have built a great life. I helped to raise his 3 children and have good relationships with them. They are college age. Please Help - I am in total despair and need answers.
How do you swallow your pride and hold your emotions in check while the person you loved and trusted most in this world - is in more love with someone else - more than when he married you?
How do you swallow your pride and hold your emotions in check while the person you loved and trusted most in this world - is in more love with someone else - more than when he married you?
With a great deal of difficult and humility. And, with the knowledge that emotional outbursts are not your friend.
Yes, OW husband is aware - he and I communicate often. My stepchildren are aware, unfortunately they have had to witness their mother do this twice now. My H is who she cheated on - so he has been in the seat that he has put me in. And yes, his family is also aware - they are also our neighbors. My family is aware, but they are an hour away. I have printed the carrot/stick and read it several times a day and am trying to implement according to those guidelines.
The latest in this sad and disgusting drama came about this past week and most of all last night. WS was out of town past week when OW H phoned me to tell me that they are still communicating. I fell apart - this was after the week I had spent thinking we were working on our marriage and that the A was over. I did not want the WS to come home last night - assuming he would spend the night at his parents, he did not. He went and saw the OW, she had asked her spouse to give her some space. Now, all has fallen apart - after my WS came home this morning to disclose all truths, including last night, and the fact that he loves her more than he has ever loved anyone else. I let the OW spouse know what happened. Now they are in a "civil war". If they separate completely I am afraid my WS will then go running to her. Then what? Is all of this horrific drama worth the end result? I have to believe in heart that it is - I am just not sure if I can take it.
Then I think so far the best comment this morning was- "I want to hope that when this is all over and done with that we can still remain friends". I think I need someone to tell me that I am not going insane.
Then I think so far the best comment this morning was- "I want to hope that when this is all over and done with that we can still remain friends". I think I need someone to tell me that I am not going insane.
It's the usual WS "fogbabble". Very hurtful, yes. Try not to pay too much attention to it.
Missy, your husband is following the Wayward Spouse's User Guide to the letter. Everything (and I mean everything) he is saying and doing is patterned, predictable and unoriginal. I think someone, somewhere, owns a patent on how to be a wayward spouse!
Think of it this way: Your husband has been taken over by an alien being. He only looks like your husband. Everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie, and is termed here "FogBabble." Imagine the old Charlie Brown/Peanuts cartoons: you husband is speaking like the teacher: "Hwha, hwha, hwha..." You do yourself a great service by not listening to a word he says right now.
Yes, this is a horrible, violent crime that is being perpetrated against your marriage. If you're strong, and have the willingness, there is something you can do about it!
The advice you will get here falls into three general categories:
Read everything you can on this site.
Become intimately familiar with the practices and purposes of Plan A and Plan B.
Post here, vent here, and get advice and instruction here.
The first thing that must happen is for the affair to die. Most die of their own accord, but there is a lot you can do to hasten the process.
If you haven't already done the first and second items on the list, now is the time to start.
Missy, your husband is following the Wayward Spouse's User Guide to the letter. Everything (and I mean everything) he is saying and doing is patterned, predictable and unoriginal. I think someone, somewhere, owns a patent on how to be a wayward spouse!
Thank you so much for reassuring me I am not going insane. I have been implementing plan a and I think we might have had a small break through. Last night he said he did not think he could take much more of the emotional roller coaster he was on and needed to make some decisions quickly to end the double life he has been leading. He stated he did not think he could do it alone and would I help him stop all contact. I said I would try to support that the best that I could. This morning he told me he was turning the pre-paid phone over to me, he was downgrading his phone to one that would be more difficult to text with, and he was deleting his personal e-mail account. So at least I hope this is an honest attempt to at least stop the A. I also realize that we are still not in a place to begin to reconcile. So many people know - he is not happy with the exposure that I did. What is my next step? I start counseling in 2 days - that is for me, I do not know if he is attending with me or not. For myself I need to hear a neutral voice. Any words of wisdom are welcome.
Missy, the first step in recovery is to have your H write a letter of No Contact that you approve and send to the OW. There are examples here and in the book, "Surviving An Affair." In brief, this letter --from you H-- says that what he/they did was wrong, and in an effort to put it right, he is instituting a policy of No Contact with her -- forever. He affirms that he will never again try to contact her and makes it clear he does not want her to try to contact him.
When the letter is written, and you have approved it and mailed it, then you can begin the recovery process.
I caution you: "false recoveries" happen all the time. This is why I strongly urge to you take baby steps at this point. Your H may balk at writing the NC letter, and you should not be surprised.
If you have ever dealt with an addict, you know what is happening. If not, you soon will know. Be positive, be strong, but also be prepared for setbacks. Being prepared may help you if not everything goes the way you hope. If things were easy, you wouldn't need this site, would you?
I don't mean to be a downer, but a realist. I wish you well and success. The road to recovery is filled with speed bumps...
It seems as though the honest discussions won't end now. He has just asked me to go to the MB website and print the article that had an example of how to write the letter of NC. He has also agreed to change his phone number. He is not sure if he is ready to start counseling with me in 2 days, but said maybe the following week. He also said that we needed to take this all very slow, not like 2 weeks ago when we were forcing the issuing of rescuing the marriage and yet his contact with OW had not stopped. Please continue with words of advice
Listen to what Pepperband is telling you, read up on Plan A and the carrot and the stick. Learn about A's, what drives them, how you can protect yourself and to also learn that is the same thing OVER and OVER again in all situations.
You aren't alone, we have all been through this, shared the same feelings that you have. We understand and can help you strategize to get through this.
But you have to be strong, you have to trust and sometimes you will need to be called upon to do things that are hard and may seem backwards.
All of this honesty today was prompted by my leaving the house last night, I wnt to my brothers. My WS apparently thought I might not come back and did not like the prospect. Today he has written the letter of NC and sent, deleted his personal e-mail, (watched him do that), broke and gave me the pre-paid phone he was using, and we have changed his cell phone number, (he asked me to do that, since I am the account holder). Wow, it has been an emotional day. I realize this is only the first half of the first step maybe to regaining some sort of reconcile. What do I do now as he goes through the "withdrawal" of the A? Is there a formula for the support he needs, while I still deal with all of the emotion of the entire roller coaster ride?
Again, I advise caution. It may be that your husband is truly repentant, but this almost seems too easy and too fast. He may be trying to misdirect your attention by making you believe he is coming back to work on the marriage.
Did you read the NC letter? Did you send it? Don't forget, new prepaid phones and free email accounts are easy to come by. You can get a better sense of his sincerity by asking him for all of his computer/email passwords, and complete transparency. He should also be willing to answer any and all questions you might have about his affair.
It's been said that "recovery is not for wimps." This is going to take some real strength on your part, as well as commitment by your husband. I truly hope you are on the path to recovery. If you are, I think this will be the fastest I've read since coming here!
I read the letter and saw that it had been sent, and watched him delete the e-mail account - which does have so many days where it can be re-activated. You are right however, as easy as it was to set those things up - I do realize that he could go out and just get a new pre-paid phone and new e-mail. I guess for just today I am going on faith and will see how it all unfolds. I have read the steps to recover and am ordering the video. I am hoping that he will eventually join me in counseling. Trying to do baby steps. And you are right, after reading many of the stories here - it almost seems to easy. Although it has not felt that way.
1. WHAT did you do that you wish you'd done differently?
I wish I had known that waywards ask to come home before they are ready to come home.
I wish I had required more and not felt so afraid that doing so would "chase him away". The wayward wasn't worth keeping and needed chased away.
I wish I had looked for the heart change before I opened my heart back up. Sooooooo much damage was done during the FR....so so much....
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2. WHAT clues did you miss (or ignore) that your WS was not ready for recovery?
I didn't ignore or miss the clues once he was home. I just didn't know what to do about it because I had already allowed him back home.
IB was much WORSE.
Hurtful words and actions from a man who had never said or done a hurtful thing to me pre-A.
Basically, he kept his entire wayward personality. I only saw a glimpse or two of my husband...the night I let him come home, and a few other times after that. Then...the alien completely consumed him.
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3. WHAT lessons did you learn that you'd like to pay forward to others, so that they might avoid a FR?
Thanks!
The rules need to change after a FR.
I was "in it" the first two times around (2 FRs). I was willing to keep Plan Aing and help him through withdrawal . But those days were long gone when he approached me again about reconciliation.
It's time to up the bar and NOT LOWER IT when real hubby makes a brief appearance.
Well, I am watching and waiting at this point. He has sent the letter of NC (i am sure), new phone number, destroyed pre-paid cell. I do not know if we are at reconciliation yet (I am unsure as well).
Time Line
D day 12/31/09 (new years eve will never be the same) found MB 01/05/10 1st FR 01/08/10 2nd D day 01/20/10 (OW H informed still in contact) Plan A 01/23/10am (heard all the fogbabble-painful) 01/23/10pm (WS thought I had left for good and I told him to go a head and leave if he wanted to be with her, he did not like the prospect of this reality, asked if I would help him break the contact since he had been unable) 01/24/10am ? Step one towards recovery (letter of NC written and sent, made phone contact more difficult, gave me passwords to email). 01/25/10 New day, new week, yet ever watchful and diligent, I do not trust him, yet am attempting to be supportive through withdrawal. I am keeping a slight distance to him (a supportive hug only-not like first FR). Above all I have remained calm with no emotional outbursts, provided him with conversation (which first on his list of EN), provided a warm home. However I think I will still go to my MD and get chemical assistance. 01/26/10 I start counseling.
Well, we are continuing on in this new found (and much needed)place of much less drama. I still feel like I am in survival mode, yet following the carrot and stick plan makes it easier to remain calm. I believe that has definitely helped the situation. We continue to have moments of honest discussions and many feelings are being revealed. I asked him yesterday if it was hard not hearing from her, he said honestly it was a relief to not have to deal with the entire situation and just focus on work. (I think I may be getting glimpses of the person I used to know). I start counseling tonight, he stated he is not ready, that to much has happened in the past 48 hours (I agree) and needs a little more time to process. He says he is tired of everyone (except me) telling him what he should feel and should do, and is not ready for a counselor to do the same. He said maybe by the next week he would be interested in started individual counseling. Part of me thinks he is not ready to recommit? I question if I can live with all of this. I panic if I can not reach him by phone, I think all of this is an elaborate scheme they cooked up to buy time, he has reassured me it is not. Will I ever trust again? I feel that we are in such a fragile place and I am treading very lightly. Any words of wisdom are welcome.
I have just read your thread. My WH & I are newly embarking on the road to recovery also. I am terrified of a FR. What were the signs? He is not living @ home & it's very hard to rebuild trust when you aren't sure what he's doing.
I wish I could answer that for you, I am to new to this and did not recognize signs. The FR seemed forced - I was trying way to hard to meet all of his EN (RIGHT NOW). It did not feel natural the way we had always been. Then the minute he was back out of town, I could sense a change in how he was communicating to me and that is when OW spouse phoned me to tell me that they were still in contact. I am moving forward very slowly at this time and I think some of the veterans on this site could offer better wisdom than I. Pepperband posted the FR thread and I have read through that, although I am careful moving forward, I also do not want to get stuck. I read through many of the posts here and it is heartbreaking to see how long this goes on. I thought my 4-12 weeks has been horrific enough, I cannot imagine doing this for years - however, that is a judgment and I can no longer make. We all have to do what is best for ourselves, I seem to be moving in the direction of fighting to restore my marriage. And I find myself in a position that I did not think possible, currently (not in last 2 days) tolerating statements that I never thought I would have heard.
As we continue on in the new found honest discussions, he has remained determined that he does not want to start joint marriage counseling. He stated that to much is happening to fast and he is not sure what he actually wants, maybe he would be ready to go next week. I feel as though he is not re-committing back to the marriage, yet it is all so fragile I don't want to demand. I am going to counseling for myself. He stuck with that all through last evening. Then I received an email from WS this morning, stating
"I woke up this morning thinking I need to go with you tonight. That doesn't mean I know what I want. I still do not know where my commitments lie. Just woke up thinking I should go. I might change my mind as the day moves on but for now this is my plan. One day at a time I guess."
Does anyone have any experience with how fast this situation of mine keeps changing. I can barely keep up. Any advice or wisdom, please.
We went to our first counseling session tonight. At first he did not want to go and then said he would. On the way there and then home he kept stating that he is not sure why he went - yet he did most of the talking while there. It is very hard to sit there and hear him say that he still has strong feelings for her, but if he is going to end this marriage it will not be for someone else. How does someone have that strong of feelings after a few weeks versus 12 years of marriage? I can't seem to get out of survival mode and am still plan A'ing. The counselor asked about the extreme measures taken for NC and flat out asked WS that if that was not what he wanted then why did he take such measures. I need help.....
I guess right now my question to those who have been in this position is this... He has ended the PA and has stopped contact, but I feel like the EA is still going on in his head. How do I compete against the fantasy? I feel that he is trying to determine what his "feelings" are and is only going through the motions of the counseling; how do I get him to bring his focus back to our marriage? Do I implement the 4 principles alone at this time?
I think Pep recently posted about cowgirlin' up and replacing the OW's memories with ones of hers. Pep, can you weigh in here?
I am trying to hang in, I guess what I am looking for is some advice regarding specific strategies on how to get WS to reconnect to me without forcing myself on him. Does that make sense?
I guess right now my question to those who have been in this position is this... He has ended the PA and has stopped contact, but I feel like the EA is still going on in his head. How do I compete against the fantasy? I feel that he is trying to determine what his "feelings" are and is only going through the motions of the counseling; how do I get him to bring his focus back to our marriage? Do I implement the 4 principles alone at this time?
First of all sorry you find yourself here dealing with all of this cr**p. That being said now that you are forced to deal with it you are going to have to be strong and start to see this as a marathon. It takes lots of time and patience and strength on the part of a BS to heal and to recover the M. Your WH is not going to be on board as easily as you are since he still possessed and tortured by the A. While he tried to figure out what he wants do not waver from what you need. First and foremost insist on continued No Contact and do not waver from that. (Trust but verify) It is sort of normal what you WH is feeling in terms of withdrawal and unsure of where to put his feelings. That�s where the plan A is crucial. I know it�s hard I have been exactly where you are. It seems hard enough to breathe let alone plan A the man who broke your heart. But you are going to have to do it and expect NO results
Not yet any way.....
Not for a while...
But here is the ray of hope you need
Plan A works Keep at it
You can�t make him drink the Mb Kool-Aid and don�t force it on him.
Vent here and post all you need, read up all the good advice the vets have given you. Then re-read you whole thread and pull yourself together and believe that the process works, there are many survivors here that have walked the road you are on and come out the other end.
Thank you, that helps. I guess I was expecting instant results. Your right about not being able to breathe and wanting to scream, it is soooo hard to maintain the no emotional outbursts. However I force myself to re-read the "Plan A re-visited thread" 2x/day to remind myself of what I have to do. I keep thinking this is all just a horrible nightmare that will go away if I wish and pray hard enough. Unfortunately it is not.
Your right about not being able to breathe and wanting to scream, it is soooo hard to maintain the no emotional outbursts. However I force myself to re-read the "Plan A re-visited thread" 2x/day to remind myself of what I have to do.
Keep breathing, one day at a time. Also while you are plan A'ing take a little time in your day to do something that gives you joy. Be it a long bath, be it a yoga class, walk in the park what ever you need to just relax. I was never a journal keeper but I got a notebook and started writing, when ever the tears came I grabbed the book. Most of it is illegible cause my hand was scribbling really fast to keep up with the brain and the tear drops were smudging everything I wrote. But thats Ok I dont need to re-read it now. Just writing and pouring how I was feeling helped me get my true pain and sorrow and frustration at plan A , frustration at the unfairness of me as a BS havingf to do all the heavy lifting out of my system. The other thing I did that helped a lot was to keep a little daily log titled what have i dont today to heal ME/Him/US
So here is a typical entry in that
Day xx/xx/xxxx Me - Went to yoga Him - Met xxxx need US - Watched movie together
Day yy/yy/yyyy Me - Wrote in journal Him - Met xyz need US -
What that did for me was allowed me to be honest with myself to see what I was actually putting in into the recovery. Sometimes we feel like we are doing that required steps but we might just be thinking so much about the steps that we dont ACTUALLY do the steps. Keeping that little log made me think everyday Ok what am I going to do today to help heal. and on days when I did not do anything thats OK too it just helps you focus and make sure you pau attention to what you are actually doing. Its very important to do the ME activity of the day so that you can find the strenght to so the him/us activities. Hope you can take away from what helped me and some of it can you find you way out of this nightmare that you are currently trapped in.
The scar of the A will never go away but the misery of it will.
You said you were having trouble with AO and DJs. How are you doing with identifying that thought pattern and getting out of it?
It took me a long time to rein in my mouth. I actually had to re-train myself to run something I might say through my head BEFORE actually spitting it out.
Overall, I have been able to maintain control and not voice any judgments (in front of him - privately is another matter). I am being supportive of his feelings right now (even though I feel as though it is a knife through my heart). I have increased the amount of time I spend with him doing things like going for walks with the dogs. I am trying to meet most of his EN, but he is also keeping me at arms length right now. I am also doing things for myself as well, keeping busy with work and continuing to work out with personal trainer/yoga instructor, I started keeping a journal. I also like the idea of the daily log.
My next question is this... Letter of NC was sent 5 days ago, this evening while we were talking I asked how the NC was going. He stated very difficult and hard. He also stated that this was probably the first good week he has had since this all started. Next I asked him if the OW had contacted him, through his work email (can't change that) and he was honest and said she did twice - he said he deleted one of the emails and read the second. Of course then I had to ask what it said. OW asked him "why and what could she have done differently". I had to keep coaxing the information out of him and I asked if he responded. He said that he did, stating to her "nothing different" and repeated what he had said in the letter of NC.
So, now am I starting all over at day 1 of withdrawal again?
It is so hard to listen to the person you love and who you thought loved you talk about how difficult not talking to the OW is. But I guess at least he is being honest about his feelings and sharing them.
I still keep praying and wishing that this is a nightmare.......
(AO - angry outbursts) No, I have not demonstrated and AO's or DJ's to his face, only to my journal.
I have also found this is the only place I can vent, friends and family would not understand what I am doing or why.
On a different note, I asked him last night after our talk what he needs from me - and this morning this was his response: "You asked what you could do. I am not really sure you can do anything different. For now your patience and continued friendship I guess. I don't deserve it for all I have put you through."
I keep thinking maybe there are glimpses of my husband in there somewhere???
It is so hard to listen to the person you love and who you thought loved you talk about how difficult not talking to the OW is.
He is in withdrawl, he will feel that way for a while. He wont always feel this way, keep that in mind and it becomes easier to accept. Everytime there is contact you are back to day 1 in terms of progress however and the cycle of progress and reset to day 1 will continue as long as there is any contact. For any meaningful recovery to begin there has to be NC. Thats where Plan A is important. YOU have to show him what can be so that HE can help himself come out of withdrawl. Hang in there, you are doing good. Everything you are feeling and experiencing is normal or atleaset common among most BS's. Its not an easy road and you are walking it. Make sure to take time out and care of yourself as much as you are trying to care for the Marriage.
How do I word asking about NC such as emails at work. He is being honest when I ask, but is not volunteering this information. I do not want to sound like selfish demands; but I do not trust. He is withdrawn tonight which probably means there was an email from her at work. Do I just ask honestly? But I don't want to sound like a broken record night after night.
Sorry I dont know how to help you with keeping up NC when OW is a co-worker, I never had to deal with that. Hopefully some one will come along that has help there.
I can speak for being a broken record though. Its exhausting night after night having marathon conversation sessions and hoping that each conversation will fix the nightmare. It does not work that way. Keep the main focus on Plan A . Try to have periods of togetherness where YOU make a concious decsion to take a time out from A talk. Just breathe focus finding simple moments to enjoy each others company. The withdrawl process seems to have already kicked in. Your WH already knows what is needed from him. You dont have to keep having the same conversation over and over. Some how you have to find it in you to let your H see that there can be a M after the A and it wont always every moment from now on be about the A only.
It is very hard to find it in me right now that there can be a M after this, I am having difficulty showing that. My moods feed off his moods and his are up and down and often withdrawn. And it seems difficult to even find things to talk about, of course this would be one of the problems that has slowly contributed to this. But now it is even worse.
What are you doing to help yourself see that there is life other than the A. What makes you happy and helps distract you from the pain? Do you work out? Do your write?
Thank you for asking, My outlets - there really does not seem to be any. I am working out daily and writing in a journal almost daily. I have started keeping a log as you suggested.
But through all these activities the A is still first and foremost in my thoughts.
I can get past the fact that he had a PA with someone, it is the deception and betrayal that I am struggling with. Also not really knowing what he is feeling right now. It feels as though there is so much distance.
We are roommates in the same house, he is upstairs and I am downstairs. We eat dinner together and watch TV together, but not much else.
I have made more time and effort to join him in the little things he does daily, such as walking the dogs or taking them for a ride in the woods.
One of his big EN was for conversation, I have made conscious effort to stop whatever I am doing and give him that time and really listen.
But again, through all this I feel that there is this great distance and I don't know how to reconnect with out seeming needy.
But through all these activities the A is still first and foremost in my thoughts.
I can get past the fact that he had a PA with someone, it is the deception and betrayal that I am struggling with. Also not really knowing what he is feeling right now. It feels as though there is so much distance.
Of course the A will be take up the bulk of your thinking time, its normal. What you have to do is slowly bit surely make a concious decision to indulge in activities that let you take short and well needed breaks. These simple distractions will fill you up with the required strenght you need to be able to survive under the burden of the pain of the A.
Dont worry about what he is feeling right now he is in turmoil, and depending on when you take his temperature it will be a different reading. Try not to read into his moods and actions and use that as a gauge of the status of your current M. This is a roller coaster ride and what ever he shares with you will change depending on where in the ride you or he is. Breathe.... Your M is on this rollercoaster, you cant get off just yet, you cant make it stop just yet. Let it run its course there is no easy fix dont waste you limited energy looking for one.
The nightmare of a PA is HARD. Time will help ,you cant rush time.
Good for you on trying to attempt to meet his needs and making an effort at doing things togtheer. Remind your self that during these activities you want to stay away from A talk. Just try to enjoy what ever the activity is. Its unfair that you have to cary the burden of the heavy lifting of this recovery (for now) but that will change. I know I sound like a broken record but been in your shoes and I know exactly how difficullt it is to pour love out while your heart is bleeding BUT thats what you need to do in order to R. You are on track . Stay with it. There will be light at the end of this dark tunnel.
I have just found out that OW and her husband have separated. I am not sure what kind of s**t storm that is going to mean for the M.
Does the roller coaster ride continue to get worse for a while? It seems as though the minute I think I hit a stable point, everything spins back out of control and gets even lower.
I am now convinced that WS was in an odd mood yesterday and a some today was because she has emailed him to tell him they are separating.
Now what? Continue with what I am doing? I guess at this point I have no choice, he has not actually said anything, he has not packed a bag yet.
I take comfort in the advice that you are giving, I just wish I did not feel such despair and helplessness.
Yes, Missy. Keep doing what you're doing. The bar has been raised a bit, and Plan B is probably looming sooner than expected, but you should just be the prettiest, wittiest, charming-est wife that attracted your husband in the first place.
Remember: 100% "Giver" and 0% "Taker." This can be brutally tough, so please come on here and vent, scream, shriek, moan, cry and whatever you need to while "making the sale."
If you do the Plan "carrot" part extremely well, it's going to throw your husband into a mental tizzy. And if and when it comes to Plan B, it will make him thoroughly confused. And that's where you want him!
The whole thing bites, and I almost cannot stand how whiney I have become on this post. Thank you for those who are listening and advising - it is much appreciated. I truly feel as though there is no where else to vent.
Missy, as it says in the welcome message at the top of the page, "This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Here you will find what you need as it relates to the Marriage Builders� principles."
It's why we're here. I am a betrayed spouse. I came here with my tail between my legs, having been emotionally brutalized by my wayward wife, completely thrown off-balance and made to believe I was evil incarnate. If you read my story (link in my signature block), you will see that I posted a running commentary the day she came to "vacate" our home.
The strength, wisdom, experience and insight shown by those people who sat in front of their computers to "hold my hand" during those days is one reason that I'm doing the same today. I don't have the wisdom and experience of the "veterans," but I've been learning. And I don't want anyone to go through what I went through. But since the assault on your marriage began before you arrived here, the very least I can do is to try to make your journey as painless as possible.
To be honest, there are days when the emotional overflow on this site threatens to overwhelm me. Since I'm in the computer field, I'm online every day. That gives me the opportunity to hang out here, and when possible, lend a comforting word.
I credit Marriage Builders for helping me stay sane. The least I can do is to try to help others who have been where I have been.
Please come here to vent. This is the best place for it!
I have read SAA, HNHN, & LB (I did a crash course in the last 3 weeks) - we have come straight out of the book as have many of the stories I have read here.
And I still am having a hard time believing this is happening!!
I picked up the SAA book which led me here. When I was browsing it in the book store, I was awestruck at how closely it resembled my current situation! Just change the names of the characters and me and my wife (and her OM) were being described. It's what caused me to buy the book.
During my time here, I continue to be amazed at how predictable most affairs are! I guess it's the abnormal (like the "lokil" intrusion here recently) that alarms everyone and draws attention (unfortunately, AWAY from those who really need it!).
And even three months into it, I still have moments of disbelief.
It's awful. I've been through a lot in my life and can truly say this has been the worst emotional storm I have ever had to weather.
Hang in their, Missy. We can do it together. We can't do it alone!
[quote=wannamoveforward] [quote].Dont worry about what he is feeling right now he is in turmoil, and depending on when you take his temperature it will be a different reading. Try not to read into his moods and actions and use that as a gauge of the status of your current M. This is a roller coaster ride and what ever he shares with you will change depending on where in the ride you or he is. Breathe.... Your M is on this rollercoaster, you cant get off just yet, you cant make it stop just yet. Let it run its course there is no easy fix dont waste you limited energy looking for one.
Thank you so much for this - this has definitely been a powerful piece of information, for me at least.
This evening, at the suggestion of WS mother - we gave each other some space from the tension in the house. I went and did the Sam's Club shopping (yes, I have an exciting life) and he did the grocery shopping after dinner with his parents and grandparents.
I did not know what I was going to do this evening and talked about going to my mother's for a while, but not really saying.
After finding out that OW and her spouse had separated I thought it best to come straight home and find out if he would be home.
Much to my surprise, he did grocery shopping and has come home - however he seems pissed to find me here and will barely look at me let alone speak to me.
I thought he was trying to hide the receipt from me, but I was able to look at it and found that he had not purchased another pre-paid cell phone.
I continue to remain calm and merely give space, but I feel like I am constantly "walking on eggshells".
I have left a letter for him in his room, providing him with some of the things that I have felt for the past few years (just honest feelings), what my understanding of infidelity is, that if we could communicate would be better, and that there is always a path leading home - it contains no selfish demands or does not try to lecture.
I am hoping that will trigger a response to look at what is really important.
Any help for tonight's sh*tstorm would be appreciated.....
Exactly 4 weeks ago i thought my life was good, M was intact, I thought this would be a great year for us.
Now I am sitting in a different room, on a different floor of the house.
He was in such a bad mood, that I said to him "I don't know what is going on tonight, but you have been in a bad mood since yesterday. I just want to let you know that I am not ignoring you, but I will be in the family room. You seem to need some space right now."
I think he thought about leaving and going to his parents. He said I don't want to make you a prisoner in the basement. I told him it was fine, that I could watch TV in the family room, no problem. He then stated that he read my letter and was not ignoring it. But that was all he said.
I feel like I might actually be dying of a broken heart. When I started down this path, I had no idea how hard this was going to be. I truly thought he loved me enough to stop this and put our marriage back together.
Today seems fragile, he did not sleep well - I believe it may partly have to do with the letter I left for him revealing some of my innermost feelings and my attempt to open up to him and the fact that OW is separated (but I don't know that either one of us knows if the other is aware of that fact). Again the letter contains no lecture or selfish demands.
His sunday morning ritual has always been to walk dogs, wash a vehicle, then make brunch. I keep expecting him to come in from the garage and ask for a D or simply pack a bag and say he is leaving. I continue to remain calm when in his sight, and provide him with space. When I asked if he was OK he said "no I am not". I am trying not to push.
So then I am expecting the shoe to drop and he asks if I want to go to a matinee today, that he could do with something to take his mind off everything???????
I am not sure I can get more confused...... But I will go to the movie with him and just try to spend time.
So then I am expecting the shoe to drop and he asks if I want to go to a matinee today, that he could do with something to take his mind off everything???????
I am not sure I can get more confused...... But I will go to the movie with him and just try to spend time.
A movie is a fantastic way to reach out and grab some of WH's ENs !!
Buy some of WH's favorite candy (ahead of time) and sneak them in your purse. Hand feed WH the first piece of candy. Then, hand him the box; "Something sweet for you." Hold his hand from time to time. Be the first to "let go" of his hand. Then, reconnect hands awhile later. Wear light perfume or scented lotion. Touch/play with your hair when talking to him. (subliminal message) Touch his ear lightly during the movie.
It started out at home I attempted to give him a hug to thank him for the reduced tension, he allowed me to hug him but did not hug back - that hurt. During the movie, I would lightly touch his arm and whisper to him, that seemed to go well, (if I would have tried to feed him candy he probably would have thought I was high). On the way home I held his hand again and thanked him for a nice evening, this time he attempted to hold my hand for a second longer, I let go first. The rest of the evening at home went the same way.
However, he usually sends me an email in the morning when he gets to work, I did not get one yet this morning. So, I emailed him - telling him I hope you slept well, thanks again for yesterday, have a good day, etc. His response back to me was short, with no mention of yesterday, and when he uses (lol) in his emails or texts usually means that he has been in contact with OW. So I am assuming when he got to work there were emails from her.
I feel like I might actually be dying of a broken heart. When I started down this path, I had no idea how hard this was going to be. I truly thought he loved me enough to stop this and put our marriage back together
I am sorry it hurts so much. (((((mymissy)))))
I can relate completely to the broken heart pain. In that darkness I could not imagine how it was possible to live with all of this pain.
That�s where I keep re-iterating to you about personal recovery. There are 2 things that have to be achieved, personal recovery and marital recovery. I know you don�t want to hear this but here goes.
Marital recovery is second priority.
First and foremost you have you make sure that you feel whole and stable enough to make choices that are GOOD for you.
TAKE SOME TIME OUT FOR PERSONAL RECOVERY. IT WIL GIVE YOU THE RENEWED STRENGHT YOU NEED FOR MARITIAL RECOVERY.
One cannot happen without the other. They don�t have to happen simultaneously but you have to be working at both.
Don�t worry about what happens to OW�s M. It has no bearing on yours. What happens in her life short time will not impact your life in the long run. She may be present in your life for now but that will end.
KEEP at plan A!!! That is the only lifeline for your chances at Recovery right now.
As far as your thoughts that your H is not participating in his recovery because he must not love you enough. BANISH THOSE THOUGHTS. Its not true he is not participating because he just cant. Its like he is sick with the FLU and you are expecting him to run the marathon anyway. He just can�t do it. He is in selfish mode and is INCABABLE of doing what�s needed. There will come a day ( in the distant future) when the tide will turn and he will THANK YOU for sticking with him thru his darkest hour and not giving up on him. I am not saying that its OK that he is not participating, the unfortunate truth is he just cant right now. So you will have to pull this sled a little while longer alone.
Write all the bleeding heart poetry you want here. It will help heal someone else�s pain. Believe me you sharing your pain here is helping someone else who is lurking and reading this very moment feeling as broken and "in limbo" as you.
I am sorry this is hard, but my sister there is no easy way out. If there all the FBW's who are posting here would give it you. Keep implementing the advice you are getting here and soak in all the support you are getting. There was someone else giving it to me in my darkest hour and I am happy to pass it on to you.
His response back to me was short, with no mention of yesterday, and when he uses (lol) in his emails or texts usually means that he has been in contact with OW. So I am assuming when he got to work there were emails from her.
Reminder 100% giver 0% taker thats the mode you have to be in. Send the email expect no response.
If he typed LOL it probably means he typed LOL. If it helps you any assume they have constant contact daily. Thats why you are in Plan A . The goal of Plan A is to help end the A. Also remember plan A is short term. You wont be doing this endlessly, focuing on that helps make it easier to do it Now. If plan A is not sucessful at ending contact and hence the A then there is plan B..... Keep at 100% effort in Plan A you will see the rewards.
I have just found out that the contact has never ended, she has his new phone number. He told me that he still cares about me but doesn't feel the same for me as he does her. I asked him to pack a bag and leave. I have also found out that he has already spoken to an attorney and a real estate agent although has not done anything formal.
I have just found out that the contact has never ended, she has his new phone number. He told me that he still cares about me but doesn't feel the same for me as he does her. I asked him to pack a bag and leave. I have also found out that he has already spoken to an attorney and a real estate agent although has not done anything formal.
NOW WHAT.......
Now it seems Plan B begins. If you haven't already written your Plan B letter, start now. You want to hand it to him as he's leaving. There are examples here and others will help you put it together.
Then you go DARK.
I'm sorry, Missy. This is tough. Believe me, I know.
He is telling me that he cannot walk away from either this marriage or the affair.
And I don't think I have any more strength in me to make him leave the house.
WHAT DO I DO??????
"DH. Your adultery is causing my heart to break. I am in intense pain here. Are you certain this your choice? To continue to break my heart on purpose?"
Get his answer on this one. He needs to acknowledge he is willing to continue to break your heart, knowing the pain he is inflicting.
He says he knows what he is doing to me and it hurts him to hurt me, yet he cannot walk away.
I can't live like this.
Look Missy--- You're gonna have to find your spine sooner or later. If you persist in this weakened state where you can't make a move, your soul will be damaged far beyond what it needs to be.
If you can't live like this, then make a plan and do it.
A plan is not asking WH to do anything, it's YOU deciding to do do something.
We can help, but we cannot make up your mind for you.
I am asking...Go to counseling tomorrow (I like him, thought he was pretty good), Have WS spend night at parents tonight. While at the counselor tomorrow, inform him of WS not stopping affair and establish boundaries there, give WS plan b letter? Or just go straight to plan B tonight...and go to counseling by myself? I fear I have fallen over the edge.
I Know its hard and you want this madness to end but unfortunatley you are in the eye of the storm now. Perhaps this is the most difficult time and a turning point for your recovery.
This is where you have to summon all your strenght and wits and THINK about whats best for you.
If you want to recover your M you will have to be the strong one go to plan B and let him twist and turn and see what it can be like without you filling his needs.
DO NOT LET HIM CAKE EAT. In the long run it helps no one.
Set the Bar of whats acceptable and whats not and STICK TO IT.
Most A's die what differs is the cause of death, plan A and plan B can accelerate what might otherwise be a delayed death that comes after its too late to reconcile the M.
Try to communicate what you are feeling and what you require from him without LB'ing.
Take some vitamins and get ready for the battle, its in full swing now. You can live thru this. Check out all the other threads here of Bs's in plan A and B and find hope in their sucesses.
What do I want.... I want myself back...healthy. All of this back and forth is BS.
Yes, I am eating, sleeping (ambien), working out, and started anti-depressants last week. Still continuing with job, co-workers supportive. My parents are an hour away..I have to stay here. His parents are 1/4 mile away. He could go there...We have three active dogs...DARK may not be possible.
When I was a freshly wounded BW, I started to make a list. It helped me think straight. I am a very logical thinker, and generally a very pragmatic person. I'm going to muscle you around a little bit, so ahead of time, my apologies.
At first, my list looked like this:
"I don't think I want a marriage like this." (weak)
Then it changed into;
"I don't want a marriage like this." (still weak)
Then, I decided to challenge myself to make a list of things I was CERTAIN about. (you should try this)
Looked like this:
I am certain I will not remain married to a man who is in love with another woman.
Make your list, Missy, a list of things of which you are CERTAIN. It will be a challenge, but do it.
Post at least 3 things, and let me look at it. This exercise will empower you.
I will take some advil for tonight, (have a massive headache), send him to his parents for tonight, call Harleys' in the morning, go ahead to counseling tomorrow night, talk to an attorney, and plan for Plan B. How is that?
Glad to hear that you are eating and getting sleep. Its VITAL.
If you cant sustain dark then dont start.
How long can you sustain plan A?
It takes time, for all the dust of the A to get stirred up and then for it to settle again. Does not mean its not working it just means it has not finished working.
He can want to CAKE EAT all he wants. ITS YOUR JOB TO SET THE BOUNDRIES OF WHAT YOU ARE WILLNG TO ACCEPT AND WHAT YOU ARE NOT.
Can I ask you a question Why do you want to recover your M ?
I will not remain in a marriage to a man who is in love with another woman. I will not stay under the same roof with a man who cannot commit to me. (I just asked him to leave) I will no longer be lied to.
I will not remain in a marriage to a man who is in love with another woman. I will not stay under the same roof with a man who cannot commit to me. (I just asked him to leave) I will no longer be lied to.
Why???I am starting to question. I love him, until 4 weeks ago I thought we were OK, If we could go back a year and undo all might be fixable. Or am I kidding myself - he attributes all trouble starting 3 years ago, when I returned to school to finish a master's program and continued to complete throughout cancer treatment. Now I have finished and am cancer free for 2 years. This should have been the start of our time. Now I think he is selfish.
It is your hope and prayer that your WH can become the man you will want to remain with. It is not certain if that is possible, but at this time, it is your desire to try.
Makes perfect sense.
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Now I think he is selfish.
Yes. All people in affairs are selfish. If he does not change ... and remains selfish, you will know what to do.
I take it then I am supposed to say this out loud to him. I have stated that I want the A to end and the marriage restored. Not empowering enough....I know. I am still waiting for this to all go away. It only keeps getting worse.
In an effort to spend time here I just burned my dinner for DH, given how bad a cook I am, I sure it will taste only marginally worse than if was not burnt.
I take it then I am supposed to say this out loud to him. I have stated that I want the A to end and the marriage restored. Not empowering enough....I know. I am still waiting for this to all go away. It only keeps getting worse.
For now, you need to say it out loud TO YOURSELF !
I'm not convinced you mean it. (yet)
I wanna hear some fire behind those words!
If you think THIS is bad, you are no way ready for recovery .... RECOVERY is harder than this.
Toughen up sistah, you're going to need those muscles in recovery. (hopefully)
I take it then I am supposed to say this out loud to him. I have stated that I want the A to end and the marriage restored. Not empowering enough....I know.
Nope for now you just need to say it to yourself.
I am not sure thats a requirement you are willing to pay the price for.
He says he knows what he is doing to me and it hurts him to hurt me, yet he cannot walk away.
Back to this bullchit.
If it HURT him to hurt you, he's stop.
His adultery feels good. And he does not want to stop because it feels good. He's trying to look like a good guy, all the while breaking your heart ....
This ~~~>"It hurts me" is disingenuous and phony and a big fat LIE
Well not much sleep last not, to be expected I guess. Him not in the house helped my stress level. This morning I received an email from him stating:
"Good morning! I guess though I have not seen much good in it yet! I have a question. You told me that you thought anyone and anything could be forgiven. I truly feel you believe that and that is pretty amazing. My question is this if you knew I was trying to make things work for me and wanted to be there for us would we be able to fix this? If you ever need some perspective spend a night at my parents! There is No way I would ever want to live like that. I really think some space from everyone and everything would help me. I never really understood how much you cared but I am starting to. I guess what I am asking is do I still have a decision to make or have I screwed things up badly enough that there would be no hope? I know you believe anything is fixable but there are limits and before you answer you need to decide if I have crossed that line. I obviously do not need an answer this morning. It is a tough question. I am really considering going away this weekend BY MYSELF with no phones and no computers. Time to think. I mean really think but I need to know what I am thinking about! Anyway I will be home after work to run the dogs and if I am staying at Moms again I might want to pick up some underwear as I forgot to pack them!"
Now what is anyone's suggestion? My plans for today were to not do much of anything but think, make some phone calls, and go to MC this evening by myself. I think for right now I need to maintain some space for myself. I am just not sure how to answer the email or to not answer.
What he needs to hear is that there really is a possibility of real M inspite of his HUGE mistake. He is peek his head out of the alien body to see if its safe to come out yet so is the pain and damage he has caused not repairable.
This is good. HE is afraid that he may have messed it up to a point of no return. If you choose to you an see selfishness in this act as well because if he fears that you will hate him and punish him for the rest of his life why invest in R. If you were the WW he possibly cannot image that he could ever get past it.
Here is where you have some thinking to do.
Do you think you will ever be able to move past his A.
I dont mean right now I mean in the distant future.
Do you have faith that a M can be recovered after such devastation. I dont know if you so I cant answer if you can get past it or not what I can tell you is that MB can give you great tools that are proven to help you do just that.
No only can you recover you M you can have a better one.
If you belive that it can then you need to show him hope. Now is the time you need to step up plan A. You need to give me a glimmer of hope that he wont be paying for his error the REST OF HIS LIFE. He needs to see that you still have the capacity to love him inspite of his acts.
Just to be clear I am not saying he gets a free pass I am saying he needs to hear from you that things can be better in the future.
Simultaneously you have to set up boundaies of whats acceptable and whats not. All those things you spoke alout last night you need to stick with and demand the kind of M you want. Offer the same in return.
So if you are still in this marathon and still belive in R tell him you are in and YES you will be able to move past it if he and you work together at it.
We took a few sessions with Jennifer at MB , it saved our lives. Perhaps instead of spending with your MC the money is better spent here. We only took 4 sessions and IMO it was well worth the money.
I also have a question, If I were to call the Harley's - what help can they provide to just me at this point in this big mess that is my M.
YES THEY ARE A LIFE LINE. How ever do not expect IC or focus on the A. They focus on rebuilding and how to get you re-connected and on the way to recovery rather than analyse the A .
CALL THEM ASAP if you are even considering it. It will be the best thing you have done yet for you and your WH and your M.
Stay away from Plan B for now!!!!!!
P.S. Your M is not as big a mess as you think it is. I am not saying its not in trouble its just that relative to the other COMPLICATED stories on here I am sorry to say yours is pretty common and is unfolding as most do. Which in of itself is good.
[quote][/quote] "Good morning! I guess though I have not seen much good in it yet! I have a question. You told me that you thought anyone and anything could be forgiven. I truly feel you believe that and that is pretty amazing. My question is this if you knew I was trying to make things work for me and wanted to be there for us would we be able to fix this? If you ever need some perspective spend a night at my parents! There is No way I would ever want to live like that. I really think some space from everyone and everything would help me. I never really understood how much you cared but I am starting to. I guess what I am asking is do I still have a decision to make or have I screwed things up badly enough that there would be no hope? I know you believe anything is fixable but there are limits and before you answer you need to decide if I have crossed that line. I obviously do not need an answer this morning. It is a tough question. I am really considering going away this weekend BY MYSELF with no phones and no computers. Time to think. I mean really think but I need to know what I am thinking about! Anyway I will be home after work to run the dogs and if I am staying at Moms again I might want to pick up some underwear as I forgot to pack them!"
I am making this my initial response. 1. I need some time, space, and perspective, so you should probably pack more underwear. 2. Please feel free to spend time with the dogs, I will be going to counseling tonight. Please be gone by the time I return. 3. Please pick up dogs from groomers tomorrow. 4. I will let you know what you have to think about later this week.
That is all I have at this point, right now I am trying to make a list and determine where I want to see this M go.
I am by no means a vet on these boards and I myself am no where near personal recovery. I see problems and big in his email.
It sounds to me like a typical cake eating response. I wouldn't be too surprised if he was going away for the weekend with OW. He makes sure to state that he would be somewhere with no phones and no computer and he is going to "think". This means that YOU will not be able to get a hold of him. He wants to know that you will still be there when he gets back, in case it isn't so rosy with OW. He also stated that "ALL" could be forgiven. IOW, you will forgive me again if I go away with OW for the weekend, right?
I like the fact that he isn't comfortable staying with his parents. He needs to feel uncomfortable a bit
I would be careful how you respond to him. Don't lose any of that power you were gaining from the exercise Pepperband had you do. She is a godsend and I am glad to have had her assisting me on my journey.
As a matter of fact, I would post your response on here and ask for help to make sure it states what you want it to in a way that would be beneficial.
You are doing GREAT. Keep listening to the great advice given by the vets and take extra great care of yourself.
That's why I think it would be best to get some advice on here. Write a draft of what you want to get across to him and see what the others have to say about it. Sometimes we think that what we are writing gets our point across but there are times we are weak in what we are saying.
By this I mean .... suggesting to the confused foggy affair-addicted spouse that there is HOPE for the marriage even though what they are doing is awful ... there is a map leading to home
Often their thinking is thus: "It's too late now. I've done too much damage ... my spouse could never forgive me, so I might as well continue with the affair."
You, the sane spouse, need to squash that belief that they can never be forgiven for what they have done. You do not need to forgive them right away, but offer them the hope of a future where all is forgiven.
You can word it something like this: All of us do things we regret. When I think of some of my past mistakes, I am extremely grateful for having been forgiven by those I've hurt. I want to be in the position to offer you that same grace. I have been forgiven, so I understand what it feels like to be in a position where you hope forgiveness is possible. It is possible.
Since you are currently in plan A, I think you should stick with plan A - for now.
But, prepare for plan B - quietly and without projecting your preparations in such a way WH can see them.
the good news is and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...
the competition we believe that exist with the OP is a shallow empty reflection of Gods light in this world...
It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush
their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now....though the need to go back again again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong...they do not like what they are doing...
their actions towards you, the children, the OP, and themselves...keep them from engaging in any type of real interactions...with real depth and truth
all they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life... yet the filling is way too fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lays down regardless of whom is next to them....
they are the living cliche..of no matter where you go to hide...there YOU are...
he or she is lost to themselves...
and you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home....even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that...
You become the lighthouse..you fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary...
see just visualize yourself as a lighthouse...
Your offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get... you invite them towards it...let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way....
they are untrustable right now... but you know that...so they can't hurt you right now...they will spend great energy to convince others differently...but you know better...
you show the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions..... set clear boundaries that the OP is not part of your childrens lives.... without lovebusting... offer alternatives that let them see the children...but be clear that the OP is to have no access to them... you fill the childrens lives with stability....they deserve it and need it more than anything else....
Do not discuss and or powerstruggle with them on irrational movements...seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly....
your spouse is very lonely and sad right now..but that is OK...no one can stay very long in that chaos...it is wearisome to the soul... and remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos...and eventually they will see that you are the only one...who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most...
be the lighthouse.... OK that's really out there I know....
I am really considering going away this weekend BY MYSELF with no phones and no computers. Time to think. I mean really think but I need to know what I am thinking about! Anyway I will be home after work to run the dogs and if I am staying at Moms again I might want to pick up some underwear as I forgot to pack them!"
"BY MYSELF" and "no phones and no computers" is adultery code for "to see if I can get closure with OW."
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I might want to pick up some underwear as I forgot to pack them!"
Ahhhhhhhh My suggestion: Pack his briefs for him. Put them in a paper bag with a loving hand written note inside a beautiful card. And, pack your prettiest panties inside a pair of his briefs. And spray a little of your perfume on his briefs.
He is cake eating because he is conflicted. If he was not cake eating, he'd be in recovery with you!!!
Edit to add:
Also, in the paper bag ... something delicious to eat. Whatever his favorite is. Make it or buy it.
i would also like to call him on the red flag of going to think this weekend.
If you must mention it - do it in Plan A speak:
I realize you are going to do whatever you want with your weekend. I would like you to spend it with me, your wife. I love you. Let's work together to make our marriage work. Please. I want you with me. I desire you.
INCREASE his CONFLICT with your plan A wonderfulness. Do not mention OW at all. Just your desire to BE WITH HIM.
It actually feels crappy to admit the man who is supposed to love me is actually in love with someone else.
Try wording it differently so your result is different. "The man who is in love with me thinks he's also in love with someone else. I need to help him see the falseness of that feeling."
You told me that you thought anyone and anything could be forgiven. I truly feel you believe that and that is pretty amazing. My question is this if you knew I was trying to make things work for me and wanted to be there for us would we be able to fix this? If you ever need some perspective spend a night at my parents! There is No way I would ever want to live like that. I really think some space from everyone and everything would help me. I never really understood how much you cared but I am starting to. I guess what I am asking is do I still have a decision to make or have I screwed things up badly enough that there would be no hope? I know you believe anything is fixable but there are limits and before you answer you need to decide if I have crossed that line. I obviously do not need an answer this morning. It is a tough question. I am really considering going away this weekend BY MYSELF with no phones and no computers. Time to think. I mean really think but I need to know what I am thinking about! I do truly believe that forgiveness is possible; we have all done things in our lives that we regret. Where would any of us be without forgiveness? I have been forgiven in the past for things I have done and regretted, so I understand what it feels like to need to be forgiven. I also believe with all my heart that we can move past this with hard work, commitment from both of us, and time. I believe that we can learn from all that has happened and recover this marriage, recover our relationship, find the love we used to share, and make it all even greater and better than before with a closeness and intimacy that we can only dream of right now. I also realize you are going to do whatever you want with your weekend, I would prefer you to spend it with me, your wife. I love you. I desire you. Let's work together to make our marriage work. Please. I want you with me.
But if you truly need the space to think, then I can take the computers and your cell phone out of the house and go to my mother�s for about 24 hours; to give you that alone time with your thoughts. For tonight at least, I still need some space and time. I plan to be home from counseling around 6:30pm, please be at your parents by then.
I do truly believe that forgiveness is possible; we have all done things in our lives that we regret.
Where would any of us be without forgiveness?
I have been forgiven in the past for things I have done and regretted, so I understand what it feels like to need to be forgiven.
I also believe with all my heart that we can move past this with hard work, commitment from both of us, and time.
I believe that we can learn from all that has happened and recover this marriage, recover our relationship, find the love we used to share, and make it all even greater and better than before with a closeness and intimacy that we can only dream of right now.
I also realize you are going to do whatever you want with your weekend, I would prefer you to spend it with me, your wife.
I love you. I desire you. Let's work together to make our marriage work. Please. I want you with me.
But if you truly need the space to think, then I can take the computers and your cell phone out of the house and go to my mother�s for about 24 hours; to give you that alone time with your thoughts. For tonight at least, I still need some space and time. I plan to be home from counseling around 6:30pm, please be at your parents by then.
Your anti-D must be helping you today ! Your brain is functioning much better
Not sure it is functioning any better, I guess I am just starting to accept a little better and realize that in addition to wanting to recover marriage, as you said I must also protect myself.
Thank you again for help, support, and assistance. You are truly giving.
I am planning to send email now, take a shower, go to work for a little, then go to counseling. Thanks again
You told me that you thought anyone and anything could be forgiven. I truly feel you believe that and that is pretty amazing. My question is this if you knew I was trying to make things work for me and wanted to be there for us would we be able to fix this? If you ever need some perspective spend a night at my parents! There is No way I would ever want to live like that. I really think some space from everyone and everything would help me. I never really understood how much you cared but I am starting to. I guess what I am asking is do I still have a decision to make or have I screwed things up badly enough that there would be no hope? I know you believe anything is fixable but there are limits and before you answer you need to decide if I have crossed that line. I obviously do not need an answer this morning. It is a tough question. I am really considering going away this weekend BY MYSELF with no phones and no computers. Time to think. I mean really think but I need to know what I am thinking about! I do truly believe that forgiveness is possible; we have all done things in our lives that we regret. Where would any of us be without forgiveness? I have been forgiven in the past for things I have done and regretted, so I understand what it feels like to need to be forgiven. I also believe with all my heart that we can move past this with hard work, commitment from both of us, and time. I believe that we can learn from all that has happened and recover this marriage, recover our relationship, find the love we used to share, and make it all even greater and better than before with a closeness and intimacy that we can only dream of right now. I also realize you are going to do whatever you want with your weekend, I would prefer you to spend it with me, your wife. I love you. I desire you. Let's work together to make our marriage work. Please. I want you with me.
But if you truly need the space to think, then I can take the computers and your cell phone out of the house and go to my mother�s for about 24 hours; to give you that alone time with your thoughts. For tonight at least, I still need some space and time. I plan to be home from counseling around 6:30pm, please be at your parents by then.
I am getting ready to leave for a while, but here was his response. Anyone care to interpret this...
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[/quote] Fair enough. I will try to honor your request and be out by 6:30 however, I will need to come home early to meet that. Like 3:00 or 3:30. I will get the dogs walked and hopefully fed before you get home. As far as the weekend goes I will stay home if you let me! It doesn't do me any good to be avoid the issues by running from them. Not saying I wont need a little space here and there but I can always go for a walk or something to achieve that. I was going to ask if you wanted me to attend tonight but maybe it is better if the counselor focuses completely on you for tonight. Maybe next week will be my turn or maybe he will want to see both of us. Please ask his advice on what we should do about any future appointments. Sorry I keep getting interrupted so answering you back has not been so easy. Thankyou for the words of encouragement. Also if you want to take my homework with you so the counselor can review it that is fine [quote]
I am getting ready to leave for a while, but here was his response. Anyone care to interpret this...
Fair enough. I will try to honor your request and be out by 6:30 however, I will need to come home early to meet that. Like 3:00 or 3:30. I will get the dogs walked and hopefully fed before you get home. As far as the weekend goes I will stay home if you let me! It doesn't do me any good to be avoid the issues by running from them. Not saying I wont need a little space here and there but I can always go for a walk or something to achieve that. I was going to ask if you wanted me to attend tonight but maybe it is better if the counselor focuses completely on you for tonight. Maybe next week will be my turn or maybe he will want to see both of us. Please ask his advice on what we should do about any future appointments. Sorry I keep getting interrupted so answering you back has not been so easy. Thankyou for the words of encouragement. Also if you want to take my homework with you so the counselor can review it that is fine
YES to him coming home!
Yes to him going to counseling tonight. (only if you want him there)
Plan A yer [censored] off !
He's surprised by your plan A. He's really surprised about your stance on forgiveness and your DESIRE of him.
[/quote] Fair enough. I will try to honor your request and be out by 6:30 however, I will need to come home early to meet that. Like 3:00 or 3:30. I will get the dogs walked and hopefully fed before you get home. As far as the weekend goes I will stay home if you let me! It doesn't do me any good to be avoid the issues by running from them. Not saying I wont need a little space here and there but I can always go for a walk or something to achieve that. I was going to ask if you wanted me to attend tonight but maybe it is better if the counselor focuses completely on you for tonight. Maybe next week will be my turn or maybe he will want to see both of us. Please ask his advice on what we should do about any future appointments. Sorry I keep getting interrupted so answering you back has not been so easy. Thankyou for the words of encouragement. Also if you want to take my homework with you so the counselor can review it that is fine [quote]
Step up Plan A, its starting to show results.
Say Yes to coming home. Yes to counselling together
Do not keep bringing up recovery and the A just for one evening. Just have normal conversation or lack of converstion if you have nothing to say.
In counselling make sure to bring up your requirements for the M and R, mainly NC and what ever else you need to see from him to keep you intersted in R. Stay away from LB's its a huge part of plan A. I know its tough when you are broken inside and you want answers but find it in you to keep with it.
Have you ordered the MB book surviving an Affair yet ????
"BY MYSELF" and "no phones and no computers" is adultery code for "to see if I can get closure with OW."
ITA - its definately code for that, dont fall for it.
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Ahhhhhhhh My suggestion: Pack his briefs for him. Put them in a paper bag with a loving hand written note inside a beautiful card. And, pack your prettiest panties inside a pair of his briefs. And spray a little of your perfume on his briefs.
He is cake eating because he is conflicted. If he was not cake eating, he'd be in recovery with you!!!
Also, in the paper bag ... something delicious to eat. Whatever his favorite is. Make it or buy it.
Love the idea make sure he is taking a litte bit of you where ever he is going. If he is going to see OW perhaps it will cause a problem there. If he is not going to be with OW then it will work as Plan A deposists.Either way you cant loose.
WW's are so predictable They all say the same things at the same stages. Lucky you have the magic decoder so you can see thru the fog babble and navigate your way thru the fog that he is living in.
Missy- When you're ready ... let me know. I have some ideas for Valentines Day. That is, of course, if you have the strength/desire to continue your Plan A another 2 weeks.
Let me know.
I think plan A like a rockstar up to and including V-Day ... then
Missy ~~~> <~~~ WH Kaboom ! Plan B ... if he's still cake eating & seeing OW.
But, that's just a suggestion. I will honor your guidance of me about your timing.
Pep- you love holidays don't you? HEHEHEHE I know it's not that you love holidays, it is just that they are HIGHLY effective for Plan B. It is funny how much you and WMF agree and tend to post the same things. It gives me a little chuckle.
Mymissy- You are doing great and you are getting great responses from your WH for your hard work. I am glad that you have Pep and WMF helping you through this, with them by your side "I AM CONFIDENT YOU WILL SUCCEED"
Pep- you love holidays don't you? HEHEHEHE I know it's not that you love holidays, it is just that they are HIGHLY effective for Plan B. It is funny how much you and WMF agree and tend to post the same things. It gives me a little chuckle.
You're correct. It's not a holiday, per se, but a day of remembering/celebrating something about family, or love, or marriage. A birthday, an anniversary, a special date. The end of plan A ought to be finalized with something special, one way or another.
I happy to be on any team that includes the wisdom of Pep.
Missy- How are you doing today ?
Not so hot, checked phone bill and during the fiasco of monday night found that he was texting her the entire time. His emails and notes to me have once again done a 360. I am tired, I think I am just surviving and am going to seek legal advice tomorrow.
Sorry Pep, I don't think I can Plan A my [censored] off.
I am going to weigh my options after tomorrow. I do not know this person and what he is doing to me is now becoming cruel.
Not so hot, checked phone bill and during the fiasco of monday night found that he was texting her the entire time. His emails and notes to me have once again done a 360. I am tired, I think I am just surviving and am going to seek legal advice tomorrow.
Best I can explain it is that he is POSSESED and cant think straight.
While you are in Plan A asume he is still in contact with OW. The END result of plan A assuming it is successful will be that he will terminate contact and the A with OW. Once you operate under that premise during plan A then you know what you are up again and each repeated contact wont be a new wound. I wish things could be different and that WH's could see the pain they continue to cause and how much they add to the recovery burden post D day. D day is hard enough but having to deal with this continued Bu77sh**T makes you just want to them over the head.
I am sorry that your WH continues to add more obstacles in the way of your recovery rather than begin to participate in it.
Its like trying plug a hole in a sinking boat while your partner keeps punching new holes in it. There will come a time when the A dies(when ever that is)that he will realize all of this.I hope he comes to his senses soon and begins to participate in this recvery before its too late for him.
As for you - I hope you can find comfort in knowing that if things dont work out you gave your R efforts everything you had. No matter what the outcome of your M I hope you find peace and healing. (((mymissy)))
My thoughts are at this time is to let him pursue, when it falls apart, if too much damage has not been done - then maybe. For now I need to protect what is left of myself, I know you are right, I cannot continue with his every 12 hour - change my mind - Bu77sh*T. I am a stronger person than that and I am starting to feel like a meek doormat. No more. I am going to remain the bigger person and refrain from AO, etc, etc. and try not to say any LB's, but I also need to take my empowerment back. So thank you for your continued support through this, it has truly helped me.
For now I need to protect what is left of myself, I know you are right, I cannot continue with his every 12 hour - change my mind - Bu77sh*T. I am a stronger person than that and I am starting to feel like a meek doormat. No more. I am going to remain the bigger person and refrain from AO, etc, etc. and try not to say any LB's, but I also need to take my empowerment back.
Glad to see that you are still standing and infact trying to stand even taller .
IMHO what you are describing is sort of plan B seems like you are already there and doing the right steps without even realising it.
I have no doubt that you WILL heal from this mess.
I remember feeling like you do. I just took off early one AM. I was wide awake and anxious at 3 AM. I just took off driving north. I did not leave a note. I did not call. This was before texting. I did not take the 2 kids. I just disappeared for about 20 hours. I went to Solvang (a cute place), the beach (a peaceful place), and drove wherever I felt like going.
But, yes I see what you are asking. I am probably moving toward a plan B - unfortunately that is going to involve selling house.
Plan B is not selling the house.
Harley quote below.
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So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.
Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.
If I could find my "old thread" I'd search and post a link here because I am sure there were many times I too wanted to throw in the towel. It was just too hard to take another step forward let alone keep walking. If you scan my old thread you will not recoganize my voice. I was you tired, overwhelmed with no hope no energy and a broken heart. When I look back at my own journey sometimes I am surprised by what I am typing to you beacuse I still see my self as some one of the other side of the fence. But the truth is I am free from that prison of being a BS and you can and will be too.
Its ok to feel tired, its ok to want to give up. This is when you need to rest. Take a melatonin or ambien or an AD orwhat ever works for you, get a good nights rest and deal with it tomorrow.
I know we keep saying it missy but its worth repeating. This recovery is a marathon roller coaster ride there will be lots of ups and down. Dont make the mistake of thinking that continued contact with OW is not common. If it was so easy to establish and sustain NC there would be no plan A let alone need for plan B. You are expecting too much progress too soon,I know you are tired and the last thing you want to hear is that there is more work ahead but I'd rather work with what the realilty than some one just hold my hand and tell me its gonna be ok without a real direction of how I'm gonna ge there. Sleep get some rest. Do something that makes you smile. If you have a borders or another book store near you go there and scan thru the Surviving an Affair book. It will really help. After I picked it up I began soaking up each page and could not put it down till I had read thru it all. Then I re read it slowly. I cannot urge you strongly enough to go find that book , even if you dont recover your M it will help you make sense of the darkness and better help you understand why you WH is being the way he is being.
OH and by the way ITS GONNA BE OK . Sending you a hug you need it!
Ok, I have gotten some sleep, legal advice, and am a little better. I am ready to start again. So Pep if you have some advice for me to follow in my own quiet and dignified way, please share.
I downloaded SAA on kindle a few weeks ago and did read it, now I need to re-read slowly.
My WS has started hiding some financial information, things that used to easily accessible in plain site are now put in other places. This concerns me.
The next concern is that the lies and deceptions continue and continue to get worse. I am trying to just go with the flow for right now and not let it be a blow every time.
Can families of the BS ever accept the WS again and if there is recovery what kind of strain does this create.
And lastly, will I know when I have reached the point of enough? I no longer know who this person is and I am not sure I want to know this version of him.
My lawyer has advised me to get copies of current financial information, I cannot access these without his knowing, do I simply wait or point blank state I spoke to an attorney and I would like copies of xyz. I am pretty sure that will be a LB right now.
How do you deal with the ever present thought in the back of your mind that WS actually had a plan in mind, it was said when all of this started "there had been a mention of spring" (OW children would be out of school)..so back to original question of a plan in mind...and that he really isn't going back and forth, but just biding his time. Even though he can see how much this is hurting me.
We have also always maintained "separate" accounts, my account is a business account, his account is a joint account but I never use. Therefore I do not have online access and he went to paperless system last year. His current 401K statements are not filed, and the only thing I could go and get is the mortgage payoff.
Go the bank then and ask to print a statement of your balances. Or just call them and get the balances over the phone and make a spreadsheet. You can do the same with your lender if you have a mortgage. You don't have any paper copies of tax returns, check stubs, or credit card statements? Even if you don't, make the speadsheet with an estimate of monthly income, car payments, credit card debt, large assets such as 401ks, etc.
My lawyer has advised me to get copies of current financial information, I cannot access these without his knowing, do I simply wait or point blank state I spoke to an attorney and I would like copies of xyz. I am pretty sure that will be a LB right now.
I'm going to be busy this AM. So, this will be a quickie.
If it turns out you need to ask WH for the passwords and otherwise get financial information, do so with a voice recorder in your pocket. Never reveal you are using a voice recorder.
Ask outright.
"WH, I want to look at our financial situation today. Please give me the passwords so I can go look at our money and better acquaint myself with our situation."
If WH tries to stonewall you in any way shape or form, do NOT argue. Simply repeat your request.
Something like:
"I'd feel a lot better if I took a look at our financial data myself. Please give me the passwords right now."
If he denies access, call your attorney. Ask for a "lawyer letter" to be sent to WH.
You've then got it on tape (if you ever need it) that your WH denies you access to your money.
They sell recorders at Radio Shack. Ask for a pocket sized recorder.
Radio Shack carries other cool spy stuff too. Nanny cam?
My WS has started hiding some financial information, things that used to easily accessible in plain site are now put in other places. This concerns me.
That is a and you should go about collecting as much info as possible without tipping your hand.
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The next concern is that the lies and deceptions continue and continue to get worse. I am trying to just go with the flow for right now and not let it be a blow every time.
The lies and deception will CONTINUE as long as he is entangled with the OW. So expect there to be a lot of smoke blown your way. You will need to sift thru what is smoke and what is real.
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Can families of the BS ever accept the WS again and if there is recovery what kind of strain does this create.
Even before we get that far lets just focus on can a BS accept a WS we'll worry about the families later. They dont have to live with him you do. FWIW most FAMILIES look out for the welfare of their own, if you are happy then.....
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And lastly, will I know when I have reached the point of enough? I no longer know who this person is and I am not sure I want to know this version of him.
You will know when you have had enough. The mere fact that you are asking says to me that you are still in this.
While a spouse is waywarad, its like their thinking capacity has been locked up in a vault and they can access it to save their own lives. Most of them belive that the fantasy of an A can be converted and sustained to a reality of a M. For a majority of the cases this is simply not true and in all likehood his involvement with OW will eventually end. The only thing that differs is When and how much destruction does the WS leave behind in their path.
I am glad you got some rest and have more energy today.
My lawyer has advised me to get copies of current financial information, I cannot access these without his knowing, do I simply wait or point blank state I spoke to an attorney and I would like copies of xyz. I am pretty sure that will be a LB right now.
Is the financial info in both your names? Get the info from your financial institutions. Or get it online. If the info is in his name only, start digging through old records. Come up with any paper you can find. This will at least get your attorney started.
Well, it seems this entire drama continues to move at a pace I would have never thought possible. I have gotten most of the copies of the stuff I need, but have also discovered the start of dissolution paperwork. It does not seem there will be a plan A or B, but that we will be heading directly for plan D. I feel so helpless in this entire situation. I feel as though no one (WS) has asked what I want. I got put on this ride and he has all the control. Any help healing at this point would be a blessing.....
It does not seem there will be a plan A or B, but that we will be heading directly for plan D. I feel so helpless in this entire situation. I feel as though no one (WS) has asked what I want. I got put on this ride and he has all the control. Any help healing at this point would be a blessing.....
Sorry you find your self at this point. Just writing to offer support and understanding of your frustration and helplessness. ((((mymissy))))
They haven't been filed yet...maybe they will be, maybe they won't. Either way, you continue to take steps to protect and improve yourself. Have you spoken with OWH lately? I would not mention the paperwork to him, but do you know if they are headed to D? Other than OWH, does OW's family know of the A?
FAQs About Ohio Divorce (provided by Dennis P. Levin, Attorney at Law)
1.How may a marriage be terminated or ended in Ohio? In Ohio, the only way a marriage can be terminated is through court actions of divorce, dissolution, annulment, the death of one of the parties or a presumption of death (a common law presumption of death requires an unexplained continuous absence from the home for a full seven years).
2.What is the difference between "divorce," "dissolution," and "annulment"? A "divorce" is the legal separation and termination of the marital relationship by the judgment of a court which may be granted only upon a finding by the court that certain "grounds" for divorce exist. A divorce puts an end to the marital relationship.
A "dissolution" of marriage is a form of no fault termination of the marriage relationship where both parties have agreed upon all of the terms of the termination (such as division of marital property, spousal support, parental rights and responsibilities, child support, etc.) and are requesting that the court terminate the marriage and approve the agreement between the parties. The basic advantages of a dissolution are that it is not adversarial in nature (i.e. the parties have already agreed upon every aspect of the termination); there is no plaintiff or defendant; it is not a "divorce"; and the court does not have to make any of the decisions it would have to make in a contested divorce. Additionally, it is usually concluded faster than a divorce action.
An "annulment" is a decree from a court determining that the marriage is legally invalid because of some defect that existed at the time the marriage was entered into. An annulment decree declares that a marital status never existed, unlike a divorce decree that terminates a marriage. The grounds for an annulment include: an underage marriage; bigamy (i.e. one of the parties has another living spouse); mental incompetence of one of the parties; fraud; duress and nonconsummation of the marriage (which may include impotency).
3.What is necessary in order to obtain a divorce in Ohio? In Ohio, in order to grant a divorce, the trial court must find:
that the plaintiff (the person filing the divorce complaint) has been a resident of the State of Ohio for at least 6 months immediately prior to the filing of the complaint and a resident of the county in which the divorce has been filed for at least 90 days or that the plaintiff for at least 6 months immediately prior to the filing of the complaint and that the defendant spouse has been a resident of the county in which the divorce has been filed for at least 90 days; and that "grounds" (legal reasons) for divorce exist for the granting of the divorce.
4.What are "grounds" or legal reasons for divorce in Ohio? Ohio law permits the granting of a divorce only upon a finding by the court that there are statutory grounds to terminate the marriage. There must be testimony by the plaintiff and a corroborating witness (or an admission by the other spouse) as to these specific grounds.
Ohio has both "no-fault" and "fault" grounds for divorce. The "no-fault" grounds include "incompatibility" and "living separate and apart without cohabitation for one year."
There are nine "fault " grounds in Ohio. These "fault" grounds include:
1.another spouse living at the time of marriage (bigamy); 2.willful absence of a party from the marital home for one year; 3.adultery; 4.extreme cruelty (defined as "acts conduct calculated to destroy the peace of mind and happiness of one of the parties to the marriage"); 5.fraudulent contract (i.e. a party was induced to enter the marriage as a result of a fraudulent representation that materially affects the essential elements of the marriage; 6.gross neglect of duty (i.e. acts that constitute an omission to perform a legal duty, such as a failure to support the family); 7.habitual drunkenness; 8.imprisonment of the adverse party in a state or federal institution at the time of the filing of the complaint; and 9.an out-of-state divorce.
5.How is a divorce case started in Ohio? A divorce case is commenced by the filing of a "complaint." The spouse who files the complaint is called the "plaintiff." The other spouse is called the "defendant." The complaint must allege that the plaintiff has resided in the State of Ohio for the statutorily required period of time (6 months) immediately prior to the filing of the complaint; must indicate the date and place of marriage along with the name and birth dates of any minor children; there must be an allegation of at least one of the statutory grounds for divorce, and; it must contain a demand for the relief being requested from the court.
"Service" of the complaint must be made on the defendant in order to bring him or her within the jurisdiction of the court. There are several methods of service available, even if the defendant spouse lives in a state other than Ohio.
The defendant spouse should then file an "answer" to the complaint, admitting or denying the allegations in the complaint. If the defendant denies the allegations he/she may also raise any defenses he/she has. Additionally, the defendant spouse may also file a "counterclaim" asserting any claim he/she has against the plaintiff spouse for divorce or for a "legal separation."
If the defendant spouse files a counterclaim, the plaintiff must file a "reply," either admitting or denying the allegations contained in the counterclaim and raising any defenses that the plaintiff may have.
6.What if the defendant spouse cannot be located or evades service of the complaint? Where the current residence of the defendant is unknown, "constructive" service may be had on him/her by publication. Service by publication permits the court to commence the case and rule on the status of the marriage and the marital property located within the state. Unless the defendant has been personally served or has voluntarily entered an appearance in the case, however, the court cannot rule on property outside the state and cannot make a ruling on spousal support
7.What is the defendant is served with the complaint but does not file an answer or otherwise make an appearance in the case? The court rules in Ohio preclude the granting of a default judgment in a divorce case. Instead, where the defendant has been personally served but has failed to file an answer or otherwise appear, the plaintiff must merely present sufficient evidence to establish a prima facie case to allow the court to grant the divorce and rule on the division of property, parental rights and responsibilities regarding the children and any support orders.
8.What happens after the filing of the complaint and answer/counterclaim? During the pendency of the divorce case, either party can request temporary orders for child support, spousal support (alimony), parental rights and responsibilities (commonly referred to as temporary custody or visitation rights), and any other temporary order that may be called for in a particular case such as a temporary restraining order restraining one or both spouses from removing the children from the jurisdiction of the court or restraining one or both spouses from harassing, threatening or physically abusing the other.
Additionally, during this time the parties can request that the court order psychological or psychiatric evaluations of the parties and/or the children to aid the court in making determinations with regard to the parental rights and responsibilities concerning the children. Home studies can be requested to help the court in determining the living conditions of the parties and how those conditions may affect the children. Discovery procedures, such as interrogatories and depositions, can be engaged in that would aid the parties in determining what assets are involved in the case, what plans the parties have for the children and any other matters that are relevant to the divorce action. Experts may be retained to appraise property and businesses.
The court will probably hold one or more pretrials during this time in an attempt to determine whether a mutually agreeable resolution of the case can be had and, if not, what the issues are that will have to be determined at trial. If the case cannot be resolved, the court will set dates for the conclusion of the discovery procedures, for the production of expert reports and evaluations and for the date of the final hearing (trial).
9.Can the children's interests be protected? A "guardian ad litem" (GAL) can be appointed by the court at the request of either party or upon the court's own motion to represent the interests of the minor children of the parties. The GAL is usually an attorney familiar with domestic relations law and his/her job is to act in the best interests of the children. The parties will generally be required to pay the fees of the GAL based upon their ability to pay. The GAL will be asked to make recommendations to the court and will have considerable influence when it comes time for the court to make determinations relating to the children.
10.Is there a right to a jury trial in a divorce case? No. Ohio does not permit jury trials in divorce cases. If the case goes to trial, the judge will make the final determinations.
11.What are the major legal issues in a divorce case? Generally, the major issues in divorce cases are, the issue of the grounds for the divorce itself, parental rights and responsibilities (commonly known as custody, child support, visitation), spousal support (commonly called alimony), and the division of the marital property and debts of the parties.
12.How does the judge make a final decision? Both parties will provide the judge with information and documentation regarding all of the issues relevant to the case. The court will have any of the various expert reports that may have been ordered during the time that the case has been pending. The court will hold hearings and a trial where the parties present witnesses, including expert witnesses, testimony and any other evidence that is properly admitted at the time of trial. The judge will consider the recommendations of the guardian ad litem, if one has been appointed. The judge may interview the children if requested or if he/she feels it would be beneficial to do so. The judge is then required to make a decision based on the evidence presented and the law. While the judge has some discretion, he/she must comply with the law.
13.What if I'm not happy with the final decision of the judge? A party who is not satisfied with the final decision of the trial judge has a right to appeal the decision to the Court of Appeals. Appeals are relatively expensive ($10,000.00 - $15,000.00 is not unusual) and there is no guaranty that an appeal will be successful. Generally, the only matters that can be appealed are that the judge has abused his/her discretion or that the judge has misapplied the law in making the final determination. An appeal is not a new trial. It is a wholly different type of procedure and is strictly a legal proceeding. No witnesses or evidence are presented. An appeal is based solely on the proceedings had in the trial court and whether or not substantial justice was done.
It looks to me like YOU have grounds for DIVORCE, while your WH does not. He is going for dissolution, which must be mutually agreed upon.
Lawyers?
Am I reading this correctly?
I believe so. It appears she can delay this for about a year depending upon when he moved out (if he even has...yet).
You can always give into "dissolution" later (like 6-10 months from now) if you want (because it's easier and cheaper)...but if you mutually dissolve it now it will be as though you were agreed/fine with this dissolution and he'll forever justify it that way.
As in: wh says" "Our marriage was over long ago and we "mutually" dissolved it"
Actually in 6 -10 months you MAY choose to file a divorce yourself based upon the grounds of adultery....thus, making your divorce based upon legal grounds of misconduct instead of "mutually agreed upon dissolution". It will cost more so your financial situation and level of care about how you define your marriage will come into play. You may...in a few months not give a crap what or how your WH portrays your marriage hereafter and just want it over...cheaply yourself at that point in time. Up to you.
Thanks for the advice; and you are right. I can still stand up for what I believe in. I still believe in this marriage, although it is getting harder.
Now I have a technical question. WS has gone out and gotten his own cell phone line so that I can not monitor, under the guise of now his employer is providing - which is B**LS**T. He got a blackberry smart phone. Through some snooping I have found his online user ID and password.
Here is my question, If I log into that online on the computer and he tell on the device at any time that I am doing this?
Of course I have to wonder, am I torturing myself further by wanting to see that stuff?
Thanks for the advice; and you are right. I can still stand up for what I believe in. I still believe in this marriage, although it is getting harder.
Now I have a technical question. WS has gone out and gotten his own cell phone line so that I can not monitor, under the guise of now his employer is providing - which is B**LS**T. He got a blackberry smart phone. Through some snooping I have found his online user ID and password.
Here is my question, If I log into that online on the computer and he tell on the device at any time that I am doing this?
Of course I have to wonder, am I torturing myself further by wanting to see that stuff?
Let me rephrase that question. If I log into his online account, can he tell on the device that I am doing this - at any given time?
They haven't been filed yet...maybe they will be, maybe they won't. Either way, you continue to take steps to protect and improve yourself. Have you spoken with OWH lately? I would not mention the paperwork to him, but do you know if they are headed to D? Other than OWH, does OW's family know of the A?
OWH did call me this past week to see how things were going on my end. I told him that I did not think well and the WS cannot stop the deception and lies. OWH thought they had a good week. Personally I think she is lying as well and they (OW & WS) are biding their time - not sure for what.
Thanks for the advice; and you are right. I can still stand up for what I believe in. I still believe in this marriage, although it is getting harder.
Now I have a technical question. WS has gone out and gotten his own cell phone line so that I can not monitor, under the guise of now his employer is providing - which is B**LS**T. He got a blackberry smart phone. Through some snooping I have found his online user ID and password.
Here is my question, If I log into that online on the computer and he tell on the device at any time that I am doing this?
Of course I have to wonder, am I torturing myself further by wanting to see that stuff?
Let me rephrase that question. If I log into his online account, can he tell on the device that I am doing this - at any given time?
I don't think online reports are 'real time'. At least verizon's aren't. He shouldn't be able to see you.
Through some snooping I have found his online user ID and password.
YOU ROCK !
Yes, monitor his blackberry. You're still in plan A.
I don't see your staying in plan A too much longer, so, when he finds out you can "see" what he's doing in 2 weeks or so .... who cares?
WH probably downloaded the dissolution paperwork from online. Then, WH discovered it required your signature/agreement/cooperation.
"Oh-oh!" <~~~ WH
In fact, OW might have taken that step for WH, and >graciously< downloaded it for him. <~~~ WH
You may find out later the story on this one.
As far as being able to tolerate plan A, I suggest a slight attitude adjustment. Please recognize your WH is an alien. Have no expectations whatsoever that he will react kindly to your kindness. Please have no expectations of "fairness" or anything resembling "fair".
Consider every plan A gesture you make towards WH as a concealed weapon of tenderness ... with the purpose of stabbing the life out of the adultery.
Consider every plan A gesture you make as a testimony to how strong you are, how reasonable you are, and how much self control you have.
You can think in your mind, "Every plan A gesture is causing WH more discomfort and more confusion." .... Remember, you are in plan A to make lovebank deposits, as best you can. So that when you go to plan B, WH still has those deposits to think about when he starts to feel withdrawls from missing you!
Force is the control of the balance of power, in accordance with advantages.
In Plan A ... the BS restores their power to affect change. Plan A gives the BS an advantage with their intimate knowledge of their spouse's ENs.
Warfare is the Way of deception.
Deception meaning .... showing more strength than you might possess at that given time ! Hiding your weaknesses. Plan A ... not begging, crying, pleading ... standing tall and presenting a self ready to battle & fight for the marriage.
Therefore, if able, appear unable,
Plan A ... let your WS provide you with things that save your energy for future need.
if active, appear not active,
When snooping about like a squirrel searching for seeds of the affair, appear calm & serene ... Plan A snooping is done quietly & without announcing >>> "Ah-Ha ... Look what I found !". Be stealth.
if near, appear far,
Plan A ... keep your WS guessing where you are.
if far, appear near.
What seems just out of reach is sometimes more attractive. What seems a sure thing, is taken for granted.
If they have advantage, entice them;
Offer the WS goodies ... as in meet their ENs.
if they are confused, take them,
Plan A is confusing to the WS. They would prefer the BS appear ugly & unattractive in order to justify their cheating. It is confusing for the WS to see an attractive BS.
if they are substantial, prepare for them,
Plan A ... get all your ducks lined up. Legal preparations. Financial preparations. Spiritual preparations. Etc.
if they are strong, avoid them,
Plan A is not plan doormat. They can wipe their feet elsewhere, but not on your back. Accepting abuse is not an attractive trait.
if they are angry, disturb them,
LOL .... this is precicely Orchid's "reverse babble" .... The WS speaks with foggy tongue, disturb them with O's reverse babble.
if they are humble, make them haughty,
If the WS is over-confident, they become sloppy & make errors.
if they are relaxed, toil them,
Keeping an affair going is exhausting to the WS. It's like a juggling act. Throw the WS another ball to keep in the air. The affair will fall when the juggler becomes exhausted by the added effort.
if they are united, separate them.
Do not become the fool that encourages both the WS and the OP to join forces. If you act insane during Plan A, they have a common enemy to fight ~~~> YOU !
Attack where they are not prepared, go out to where they do not expect.
Do the UNexpected in Plan A. Keep the WS guessing & wondering.
This specialized warfare leads to victory, and may not be transmitted beforehand.
Do not give away your plans.... do not show the WS your books. Do not invite the WS to this site. Stealth.
Before doing battle, in the temple one calculates and will win, because many calculations were made
Plan ... you must have a Plan or you will suffer & be defeated.
before doing battle, in the temple one calculates and will not win, because few calculations were made
Don't waste time flailing about .... get organized & recruit helpers.
many calculations, victory, few calculations, no victory, then how much less so when no calculations
Do not proceed by your feelings alone. Develop your plan.
By means of these, I can observe them, beholding victory or defeat!
The BS who refuse to develop & follow a plan, are most likely to fail.
Thanks Pep, For the most part this is what I have been doing from the start. I have to admit there have been some emotional outbursts and anger; but for the most part I have been trying to be the spouse he had a few years back and remain calm and in control.
My MIL made a comment today, repeating something he had said. He said my being nice was making everything harder. Another comment he made a few days ago, was if he "were as strong as I was, he would be able to walk away from A and OW". (should that be in craziest things to come out of WS mouth thread)
I do realize he is conflicted, right now I am using time and the best I can muster of a plan a, I do still wish that I could magic bullet the end of the A. At least it seems to be back to electronic contact only.
I have also now password and fingerprinted login to my main laptop, so that he is not able to check my browser history.
So, for right now I feel as I am back in the game - for now (I was feeling pretty low for a few days). I still cannot understand (even after reading - SAA) the pull and the influence the OW has over him - amazing. (amazingly horrible)
Who am I kidding, he is not conflicted. the weekend seemed to be fairly low stress, nice to one another. but then yesterday he makes a comment about going to the gun show today with his dad. Well turns out to be a lie, I came home to find a note saying "change of plans, eat without me, i will grab a sandwich on the way home" Now I have spoken with MIL and know that FIL did not go to gun show. Now what do I do? I am thinking of not being here when he gets home and going to my brothers, do I pretend that I don't know? And continue with this waiting game? When I think that this cannot get any worse, it does.
The passwords I thought I had found turned out to be a bust and the paperwork I saw the other morning is no longer there. Not sure where he is hiding that now.
Well the story only gets better. The OWH was able to print her emails and text messages and brought them into work showing that many were done on company time. He is trying to get WS fired. Not only will my marriage fall apart, but so will any financial security. I cannot believe that WS is willing to throw his entire life away on someone most of our friends don't even like. WTF!!!!!!!
Have you figured out when you are planning to go to Plan B? There is a lot of work that has to be done to get in to Plan B effectively. I know that Pepperband had suggested that you should think about going in to Plan B on V-Day. Have you thought about that at all? It is hard to keep up Plan A while your WH is ACTIVE in the A. That is why it is TEMPORARY. Plan B is hard as well, but emotionally the bad days are farther apart.
I did not want to be home when he got back today and have had almost 0 contact. He sent 2 pathetic texts asking if I knew about ___ trying to get him fired. I texted back - no. He stated no concern for me...ie. where was I, was I OK, would I be coming home???? Nothing.
So, I have not planned any further than tonight and work tomorrow. A plan B will require more planning on my part, however if he loses job - I may be in strictly survival mode for myself. We have company cars, etc. etc. I may have to scramble just for myself.
So, at this point - no I do not have a specific plan in mind(and I know that is probably not a good thing). I am hoping that me not being there tonight and providing him with someone to talk some of this through and the thought of what he has to face tomorrow at work - maybe - will start to get him thinking, at least a little.
But, for my own self preservation I think it is time to start distancing myself.
There is too much drama and the stress is to high. I am already a cancer survivor and have started to get my health back in the last year and have taken off about half of the ill health weight gain. Physically I am started to feel great - and I am not willing to let his poor choices drag me any further down.
Tomorrow I also plan to go to Dr. to be tested for any STD's - I am uncertain in those regards.
Am I doing everything wrong? I need some advice on what my next move should be? Unfortunately at some point tomorrow I will have to go home and he will be there in the evening.
Legal separation may be sought for the following grounds: (1) adultery; (2) imprisonment; (3) willful desertion for 1 year; (4) cruel and inhuman treatment; (5) bigamy; (6) habitual intemperance (drunkenness); (7) when a final divorce decree has been obtained outside of the state of Ohio that does not release the other spouse from the obligations of the marriage inside the state of Ohio; (8) fraud; (9) neglect; (10) incompatibility; or (11) living separate and apart without cohabitation and without interruption for 1 year. [Ohio Revised Code Annotated; Sections 3105.01 and 3105.17].
Am I doing everything wrong? I need some advice on what my next move should be? Unfortunately at some point tomorrow I will have to go home and he will be there in the evening.
Missy, there is hardly a chance that you're doing everything wrong. You're dealing with a fog-deranged wayward, after all. Don't doubt yourself, no matter how tempting it might be.
Here's a cue, from your own words:
Originally Posted by mymissy
But, for my own self preservation I think it is time to start distancing myself.
To me, this has "Plan B" written all over it. I know you're worried about finances, but don't forget -- if things keep on the way they've been going, finances will still be an issue. Recover your marriage. Better still, recover yourself. All will be well!
Thanks Fred, after reading that I am not ready for Plan B. I do not know what to do next - continue with Plan A? It seemed to be going OK for the last several days.
Well, it is very early. He should have left for work by now and I am going home to get ready for work myself. With the assistance of medication I was able to get some sleep last night; so I should be able to function today. What I could use some advice on is what the dialogue should be this evening???
If this helps anyone to help me with talking to my fog-deranged WS...The note he left me this morning.
"FYI I was at work yesterday afternoon. Not that it matters much"
Now, I wasn't born yesterday and my thoughts are if you were going in to work there would not have been the need for all the lies. And then not even an I'm sorry...or I have really screwed things up....again nothing.
I do not even see a glimpse of who I use to be married to, he used to be the most responsible person I knew....
I do not even see a glimpse of who I use to be married to, he used to be the most responsible person I knew....
While he is a WH you wont recoganize him. His body has been possed by an Alien. You keep looking for your H in there. He has been locked up and kidnapped. The "person" you are dealing with is not him.Until and unless he can free himself from the A you wont see your H again. The better you understand who and what you are fighting the better your chances at victory.
Well the story only gets better. The OWH was able to print her emails and text messages and brought them into work showing that many were done on company time. He is trying to get WS fired. Not only will my marriage fall apart, but so will any financial security.
Missy, it almost seems that OWH is doing the work on his end that you cannot achieve on yours. Don't forget: Your WH is the OM in his eyes!
Originally Posted by mymissy
I cannot believe that WS is willing to throw his entire life away on someone most of our friends don't even like. WTF!!!!!!!
Ah, such is the wayward mind set. How well I know what you're feeling.
As to what to do now? I'm afraid that you already know that there are things beyond your control. WH does not seem to be aware (or care) that the A is being attacked from both sides (which is a good thing, actually).
When he gets home, I would continue in Plan A, but keep working on preparing for Plan B. If WH does not know OWH is attacking on the work front, you have the advantage because you can prepare for the potential fallout. Talking about how he is jeopardizing his job is a potential LB. But you could approach this from another angle, such as asking, "What would you do if you found yourself in need of a new job?" (I probably wouldn't be quite as direct). In other words, rather than try to educate him on the consequences of his actions, try to get him to think about how things in his life might change by influences outside his control.
There is an acronym used in A.A: FEAR = False Expectations Appearing Real. Fear can paralyze us, or it can motivate us to action. I advise you to not project the fear of job loss at this time, but to use the possibility in an attempt to start a dialog. Who knows, if you and WH find you can share your concerns, it might actually work to make deposits in the LB$.
Missy, you have no other choice but to continue with Plan A.
Well actually she does have a choice, but a continued Plan A is an option.
Missy, get your Plan B together so it is ready when/if you need it. Also, I strongly recommend that if BH goes after WH's job, you stand back and let WH deal with the fallout. So long as the BH's tactics don't cross the line of making up other things or threatening you and your kiddos, stand back. You can also let him know that what goes for your WH goes for his WW as well. If he doesn't like that...well too bad. Try not to get confrontational with him but don't let him get away with being a hypocrite either.
I have continued throughout all of this to remain calm, to be the beacon on the lighthouse....It is definitely getting harder. I am continuing to gather the information that I need. I guess I will know when I have had enough and file for a legal separation. I am only starting to realize the depth of what all of you have been saying. I keep expecting him to just drop the whole A and attempt to recover marriage, but I am sure that we are going to sink to levels I had not thought possible. My SIL and MIL have commented that they cannot believe that I have been able to remain as calm as I have...I am pretty sure it is due to MB. I cannot imagine that WS's chaos and torment feel good, he now chews antacids like they are candy. I hope some of the balls in the air are starting to fall, I have to wonder how far all of us will go down.....
Wow Well, I am being made to feel as though much of this is my fault. However, I have remained calm, made dinner, and managed to not break down in front of him.
I did ask him if the torment and chaos his life has become was worth it all.....He said - hmmm....NO. I also stated that all of this is due to his poor choices and not mine. He answered - I realize. (I don't think he does though)
I will continue with plan A, but I am planning for B... (I think I have all financial documents lawyer needs). Not sure where this ride is going right now. At least I will get a little break. He must go out of town for 1 night for job. Of course, he is still convinced that he will lose job. I just don't know....
Is it normal that I am being made to feel guilty and that he barely speaks to me or looks at me.
Are you guilty? Did you do something worthy of guilt? If not, then you cannot be made to feel guilty. He cannot make you feel guilty against your will.
I know, I know - I have tried so hard not to do that. Sometimes it is so very difficult.
Heck yes it is difficult. Come here and vent away. Leave your DJ's in the bathroom sink. Go in there, brush your teeth and foam at the mouth muttering your DJs. Then *spit* them in the sink, and rinse. Then look at yourself in the mirror and say out loud:
Ok, I am ready to hear more advice on what I should do and should not do.
Any suggestions on what I can say at this point???
I always thought I was pretty smart, but I have to admit - I feel like a complete idiot on what I should and should not be doing and saying. I still feel lost and do not like my inability to navigate in this territory.
How are you doing with those anti-D's? Are you getting enough sleep? How much time do you spend crying? Every day? How long? How many times have you visited a friend or family this week? Are you exercising? Are you doing good things for yourself to keep you "taker" away?
Originally Posted By: Dr Harley When a WS refuses to leave the lover, there are no good options for the BS. At first, plan A is recommended because there is a slim hope (15%) that, with encouragement, a WS will make the decision to leave the lover. But 85% don't do that, even when plan A is implemented perfectly. That leaves two other choices which are both bad. The first is to continue plan A indefinitely, trying to encourage the WS to leave the lover, and the second is to initiate plan B, which is to completely separate from the WS. The problem with a coninuation of plan A is that it usually leads to severe emotional symptoms, including years of post-traumatic stress disorder, even when the WS eventually returns. Many women that I've counseled actually have nervous breakdowns in their effort to draw their WS back to them. Instead of making the BS attractive to the WS, plan A actually makes these poor women so unattractive that it completely eliminates all hope of reconciliation. And 95% of all affairs eventually "die a natural death." If you do absolutely nothing, they usually end.
So I've recommended plan B rather early in the effort to separate the WS from his lover.
How are you doing with those anti-D's? Are you getting enough sleep? How much time do you spend crying? Every day? How long? How many times have you visited a friend or family this week? Are you exercising? Are you doing good things for yourself to keep you "taker" away?
I am trying.. The anti D have started to kick in and I am starting to feel much less anxious. I spent the night at my brothers last night for a needed break. I am still exercising almost every day. I have a pretty good support system of friends and family I can talk to. I get about 4-5 hrs of sleep a night with the help of the anti D and ambien. I cry on and off throughout the day for a little bit at a time, however I am able to "keep it together" at work when I am with patients.
When I first started this, I honestly did not think it would go this far. I think I have had a 3 month time frame in mind for Plan A. I have been trying to hold out for at least april. (not really sure why...has more to do with my job than any reason)
I think I am so afraid of losing him completely, that if I go down that road that will be the end result. I do also realize that I cannot control anybody but myself and that I do not want to choice by default. That is not any way to live either.
I think I am so afraid of losing him completely, that if I go down that road that will be the end result. I do also realize that I cannot control anybody but myself and that I do not want to choice by default. That is not any way to live either.
The only alternative I know which has worked (at least once) is a 180 plan. This is not Harley or MB advice.
You know what Mymissy, many of us BS were afraid of losing our WS's too. I am still afraid sometimes. But do you know what I am more afraid of? Living like I was living like before I went into Plan B for THE REST OF MY LIFE.
Thanx to Pep(and many many others), I had a date in mind for going into Plan B, it was only 3 weeks of solid Plan A(with a couple of additional weeks of kinda Plan A). Six days before I had planned on going to Plan B, I was so sick of my WH and he hurt me so badly by going to POSOW's house for the evening(although he never admitted it.) I was ready to pack his stuff and give up. I didn't care if WH ever came back.
That's when I lost the fear of losing him. It creeps in every once in a while and I deal with other fears and emotions. Come on here and vent. You may be helping more people than you know.
I think I am so afraid of losing him completely, that if I go down that road that will be the end result. I do also realize that I cannot control anybody but myself and that I do not want to choice by default. That is not any way to live either.
Do not be paralysed by FEAR.
What ever the outcome of your M YOU WILL BE OK. Once you get to that point
Then and only then are you really making a choice about your M.
If you continue to stay in R or in the M due to fear of loosing him then once you loose that fear (and belive me one day you will) you MIGHT realise what a mistake you made and want out. Thats when you'll be really pissed that you went thru the ordeal of recovery.
First you have to let go the fear. There is a thread here on the fear that paralyses the BS. If I find it I'll bump it for you.
Its normal to fear the loss of the relationship and the one you love, just dont make decisions based on it. Acknowledge the fear and then proceed inspite of it. From what I read of your posts you are a pretty strong woman and you are staying much more pulled together than I was. I could not eat or sleep for days/weeks. I let myself run down to a point of non functioning before I wiped my tears and marched onwards.
Nothing worth saving can be recovered with a heart that's afraid of losing.
Read that a few times.
Then find your courage.
Find your worth.
You are worth having a faithful husband.
You have already lost that.
So what do you have left?
What are you hanging on to?
Illusions?
So once you get to what's real - that there's nothing there to fear losing because that's gone...
What can you do?
Be bold.
Be brave.
Be the woman he fell in love with.
Value yourself enough to say you are worth fidelity and mean it. No second rate, two-bit apology-while-cheating-in-your-face behavior will be tolerated.
I bumped the thread for you. Here is a quote from it.
Originally Posted by star*fish
It is the fear that paralyzes you, sends blood rushing through your veins, sours your stomach, and interupts your sleep. It is the fear that gives away your power, your hope, and your forgiveness. It is fear that robs you of the active self and traps you in the role of patronizing enabler who will take them back at ANY cost...even if the price is too high. It is fear that keeps you from confronting and exposing. And fear that prevents you from enforcing your boundaries and having compassion for yourself.
Fear of abandonment. Fear of rejection. Fear of reaction....yours, theirs. Fear of future...the unknown. Fear of destitution and want. Fear of failure. Fear of losing. Fear of loss. Fear of solitude. Fear of settling. Fear of change. Fear of lack of change. Fear Fear
Infidelity creates FEAR....and fear is crippling. Research shows us what we already know in our hearts....when we are fearful....we are unable to fire up the parts of our brains that "process" information on a logical, rational, spirtual level and create solutions that increase the odds for success in crises. When we are fearful....we don't use our neocortex....but instead, it is our limpic system which lights up our MRIs....our animal brains wired for "fight or flight".
There is no HOPE in our animal brains....because our indentity, our souls, our compassion....don't reside there. You are only capable of conflict or escape when you are there....so you must find a quiet place to deal with your fears so that you can confront, expose, do all the things that overcoming infidelity entails....all the things that happiness entails. You must value yourself as well as protect yourself, without fear of losing your WS or enforcing boundaries.....because if you don't....all your fears will be realized anyway.
MB is not designed to trap you in a marriage where your feelings are crushed and disrespected or the vows of marriage are meaningless. It's designed to help you overcome fear and give you hope that marriages CAN recover from infidelity....but you must be brave and be willing to risk losing your WS in order to regain trust, fidelity, security.
You must be willing to see beyond your pain and take logical and systematic steps to undermine the affair and increase the stability and security of your marriage. That takes courage above pain. It takes the peacefulness of knowing you are strong enough to lose a self indulgent and unrepentant spouse or recover with a flawed, but motivated one.
Don't let your fear take back a spouse who isn't ready to do the hard work recovery after infidelity entails. It is an invitation for misery.
If you don't believe you CAN survive without your WS....you cannot do what you must do to ensure success.
Stop being fearful of their threats...they are just excuses to leave or be selfish.
Stop being fearful of their reactions....their reactions arise from their guilt...not your boundaries.
Stop being fearful of taking a stand....it's the only way to gain respect or trust.
Stop being fearful of being alone.....until you can stand on your own and risk losing them, you will NEVER know if they remain with you by choice. And you will never know if you want them or you NEED them.
And if you need them....even if they return....you are in trouble chere.
I am stronger than this, I have been waiting for him to make a decision. I have allowed myself to become paralyzed by fear...fear of the change, fear of the unknown, and most of all fear of rejection. NO MORE. I am consciously trying to let go of my fears. Out of the lists I have been making was "why do I want to save this marriage"? My first thought is a small part of me says it would be easier to run away and create a new life. Then a bigger part of me rises up and thinks to recover this marriage will recover a part of myself as well. I find myself in so much pain - pain that he has caused, yet my heart aches for the torment that I see him in. I know in my heart that I truly love him. I also truly believe way deep down inside that we can still make this into the kind of relationship we both want. I have determined that if it works out best that we do not stay together - I will still be OK. I am strong, proud, educated, beautiful, and can stand on my own two feet. So my first step this morning was to fill out the MB "request an appointment form". I need professional coaching. I am currently stuck in a limbo that WS has created. He has always stated on of the things he has feared most was having a marriage/relationship like his parents. That is now exactly where we are, we merely co-exist within the same house. This is no way to live and no way to go through life. I demand more for myself and from myself. So all that being said, I am ready to move forward - whatever that entails.
I bumped the thread for you. Here is a quote from it.
Originally Posted by star*fish
It is the fear that paralyzes you, sends blood rushing through your veins, sours your stomach, and interupts your sleep. It is the fear that gives away your power, your hope, and your forgiveness. It is fear that robs you of the active self and traps you in the role of patronizing enabler who will take them back at ANY cost...even if the price is too high. It is fear that keeps you from confronting and exposing. And fear that prevents you from enforcing your boundaries and having compassion for yourself.
Fear of abandonment. Fear of rejection. Fear of reaction....yours, theirs. Fear of future...the unknown. Fear of destitution and want. Fear of failure. Fear of losing. Fear of loss. Fear of solitude. Fear of settling. Fear of change. Fear of lack of change. Fear Fear
Infidelity creates FEAR....and fear is crippling. Research shows us what we already know in our hearts....when we are fearful....we are unable to fire up the parts of our brains that "process" information on a logical, rational, spirtual level and create solutions that increase the odds for success in crises. When we are fearful....we don't use our neocortex....but instead, it is our limpic system which lights up our MRIs....our animal brains wired for "fight or flight".
There is no HOPE in our animal brains....because our indentity, our souls, our compassion....don't reside there. You are only capable of conflict or escape when you are there....so you must find a quiet place to deal with your fears so that you can confront, expose, do all the things that overcoming infidelity entails....all the things that happiness entails. You must value yourself as well as protect yourself, without fear of losing your WS or enforcing boundaries.....because if you don't....all your fears will be realized anyway.
MB is not designed to trap you in a marriage where your feelings are crushed and disrespected or the vows of marriage are meaningless. It's designed to help you overcome fear and give you hope that marriages CAN recover from infidelity....but you must be brave and be willing to risk losing your WS in order to regain trust, fidelity, security.
You must be willing to see beyond your pain and take logical and systematic steps to undermine the affair and increase the stability and security of your marriage. That takes courage above pain. It takes the peacefulness of knowing you are strong enough to lose a self indulgent and unrepentant spouse or recover with a flawed, but motivated one.
Don't let your fear take back a spouse who isn't ready to do the hard work recovery after infidelity entails. It is an invitation for misery.
If you don't believe you CAN survive without your WS....you cannot do what you must do to ensure success.
Stop being fearful of their threats...they are just excuses to leave or be selfish.
Stop being fearful of their reactions....their reactions arise from their guilt...not your boundaries.
Stop being fearful of taking a stand....it's the only way to gain respect or trust.
Stop being fearful of being alone.....until you can stand on your own and risk losing them, you will NEVER know if they remain with you by choice. And you will never know if you want them or you NEED them.
And if you need them....even if they return....you are in trouble chere.
Thank you WMF I needed to hear that And thank you Pep, you provided a much needed reality check last night.
Is your WH living at home??....I thought he was at his parents but now I get the impression that he is back home??...is this correct???
not2fun
He only spent 2 nights at his parents, then came back home. (We live out in the country, on a lot on his family's farm. His parents and sister are our 2 closest neighbors)Which is why he went to hip parents house to begin with.
He only spent 2 nights at his parents, then came back home. (We live out in the country, on a lot on his family's farm. His parents and sister are our 2 closest neighbors)Which is why he went to hip parents house to begin with.
Okay, thanks for clearing that up....
Here's the thing about the FEAR....
Try looking at it from a different angle.....
While all that you fear are very normal and things that are quite frightening (I had the same ones....), you also need to FEAR what can happen if you DON'T act.....
The fear of staying with him and him continueing the affair....
The fear of wondering where/what he's doing at any given moment....
The fear that you will lose your OWN sense of worth, dignity, and self-respect.....
These are what CAN and WILL happen if you sit back and do nothing......
When I first got on here, there was another poster, SerenitySoon whom I got to know. She was a wonderful lady with a big heart, but she was afraid to do any of the things people on here told her to do. She was afraid of Plan B BIG TIME. She never did do it......last we heard, her WH was still with the warthog, she was still without her H and M, even though there hadn't been any divorce, and she ended finding herself becoming attached and hurt by an OM, whom was married.
Those, my friend, to me anyway, were much more scarier than losing my WH, whom had become stranger.....
This is a very affirming post, Missy. Good for you!
I am one who believes that "success" here at MB = "personal recovery."
ITA You cannot have a successful M recovery if you have not attained Personal recovery in fact I would say PR needs to come before MR but as long as they both happen we are good. At the risk of repeating my self I am going to cut and paste what I posted to you a few days back, I think you are more ready to hear it today then you were on that day.
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I can relate completely to the broken heart pain. In that darkness I could not imagine how it was possible to live with all of this pain.
That�s where I keep re-iterating to you about personal recovery. There are 2 things that have to be achieved, personal recovery and marital recovery. I know you don�t want to hear this but here goes.
Marital recovery is second priority.
First and foremost you have you make sure that you feel whole and stable enough to make choices that are GOOD for you.
TAKE SOME TIME OUT FOR PERSONAL RECOVERY. IT WIL GIVE YOU THE RENEWED STRENGHT YOU NEED FOR MARITIAL RECOVERY.
One cannot happen without the other. They don�t have to happen simultaneously but you have to be working at both.
Infact I am inclined to belive that if Personal recovery came AFTER the recovery of the Marrige then there is a chance that the M may not continue to survive based on the freedom of choice that personal recovery offers. As a BS you have to get moving on resloving the pain (and fears that come with it)of being a BS before you can be FREE to make the choice of Recovering your M.
Sounds like you are making progress towards that so you are back on track again.
for starting the ball rolling with the MB coaching. I am looking forward to reading your progesss as you gain support and coaching from Steve/Jennifer.
Here is where we are right now. Two days of H**L. I spent sunday night at my brother's because WS lied about where is was going. He is still denying that he saw OW, only that he spoke to her on the phone. However the valentines day card hidden in his car is gone. so I am pretty sure it was given in person. I do not have physical proof. So then comes monday. He barely speaks to me when he gets home from work. I question him about sunday. Yes I did make some DJ's (but I did it in a calm manner)and we spent the evening in separate rooms ignoring one another. At one point we passed each other in the kitchen and I hugged him and said I am so sorry for how you are feeling and where we are. He hugged back slightly and said it is not your fault and that things would work out. (? not sure what this means)
This morning WS left for business trip (only overnight) and left me a note stating " Good morning, Hey: if you can tolerate my company for an evening I would still love to go and see ___ thurs. night(I got him tickets to his fave comedian for xmas)I will let you decide.
Here is my plan so far: Have called Dr. for increase in anti-D and stronger sleep aid. Have counseling session set up with MB for thursday afternoon. Go with WS thursday evening to see comedian (deposit some LU). Over weekend demand the affair stop. (in a MB method) If he chooses not to stop A - Go to plan B (I have letter written and ready to go - plan to speak to MIL and tell her that I am initiating the start of a trial separation and he will probably be staying there). If affair still does not end, go back to lawyer and start legal separation proceedings.
(of course much of this depends on what MB counselor tells me on thursday)
Here is my plan so far: Have called Dr. for increase in anti-D and stronger sleep aid. Good plan
Have counseling session set up with MB for thursday afternoon. Great plan
Go with WS thursday evening to see comedian (deposit some LU). Greatest plan
Over weekend demand the affair stop. (in a MB method) Hopefully Thursdays session will give you a better understanding of how to execute this in a productive manner that will help produce results.
If he chooses not to stop A - Go to plan B (I have letter written and ready to go - plan to speak to MIL and tell her that I am initiating the start of a trial separation and he will probably be staying there). If affair still does not end, go back to lawyer and start legal separation proceedings.
(of course much of this depends on what MB counselor tells me on thursday)
That is all I have so far.
How am I doing??? You are doing better than you realise.
I have spent all day on this. Stop doing that. How about a plan that allows you some much needed short break from non stop recovery planning.
How about a plan that allows you some much needed short break from non stop recovery planning.
In the unlikely event of a sudden loss of cabin pressure, oxygen masks will drop down from above your seat. Place the mask over your mouth and nose. Pull the strap to tighten it. Breathe normally. Make sure that your own mask is on first before helping others.
You cannot help your marriage if you allow yourself to weaken. Which is why a very important part of Plan A is self care.
Besides, you and other good people are already "on it". I usually prefer to wait until I have something to say that has not already been mentioned. So far, good advice.
Originally Posted By: Fred_in_VASorry for the T/J:
PB, can you take a moment and look in on Kristy's thread, "What Do I Do Now?"
End T/J
I've already read it. I think there is perhaps a language/cultural difference not yet revealed. So far, I am not ready to weigh in.
I wish I had Pep's wisdom and had stayed out of there too. I just do not expect joke telling from a new BS. May be its just me, I can deal with the language and culture barrier. The joke telling however is a . Then again who am I to judge how all BS's should act. We all respond differently. Sorry for the continued thread jacking Back to mymissy ....
I also don't know about "warning" MIL about WH coming to stay there. First, he is a BIG-BOY, let him wear his big-boy pants and tell his Mommy himself. Also, what if he doesn't decide to stay there? You can't know where he is staying. He could decide to go to a hotel, or even OW(CRINGE).
Talk to MB counselor and tell them your sitch and your plans and they will advise you for your sitch.
Hey what are you going to do for YOURSELF tomorrow? Is it time for a mani/pedi? What about a massage? Go out with a friend for coffee or lunch(make sure it's a female friend).
Here is an update: I got 7 hours of sleep last night, I feel a little better - my hands still shake, but I guess in time that will get better. My WS is supposed to return today from business trip - I don't know when. That would be because I don't get informed of these things anymore, no phone calls at all. The fiasco sunday night regarding his paranoia of getting fired has obviously come from OW (WS works with OW H). WS was angry with me and some how trying to make this my fault - I am giving that a big "whatever". I am positive that OW continues to lie to WS and this turns WS against me - are all OW this vindictive and mean? However, I have been working on repeating many of the statements to myself that everyone here has given me - to overcome my fears. I look forward to speaking with Stephen tomorrow and getting his advice. At this time I am planning to move forward to Plan B. (Unless otherwise advised). I am fearful, but am getting better with idea. Something must change....
Hope your session wih MB is a productive one. Just a little piece of pre-session advice I wish I have gotten before my first session. When you counsel with Steve its not like IC, there was no opening up if the A wounds the pity party of the BS. After my first session with Jennifer I was almost not sure I would be happy with the counselling because I did not feel like I got the relief or healing I was looking for. It took me a few days to realise that what MB was going to give me was tools that would help me restore the love and M and the personal healing would come thru the process of implementing that and not merely from the gathering of the information. So if you feel the same let down in terms of personal healing I just wanted to forewarn you not to expect a magic pill at the first session. After session 2 having re-adjusted what I was going to be receiving I was all on board. I am glad I went thru the MB process with the Harleys and I am looking forward to your continued progress under their guidance.
The session went well, Stephen has given me a some comments to get WS to start thinking a little differently and maybe speak to MB himself. Problem - the paperwork (dissolution) I found last week that he had started I am pretty sure (99.9%)that he has brought it to lawyers, I don't quite understand that - don't I have to sign off on a dissolution? The night out at the comedian went very well, I reached over twice and held his hand - he did not let go. So why file to dissolve our marriage without at least telling me??? I have started the conversations that MB suggested, I am hoping....right now just hoping.....
But are you going to do Plan B? I ask because a lot of people I know get advice from their therapist/IC/whatever and go and do the opposite thing they advised.
Yes, do exactly what Steve tells you. It's likely that you may need to do a more stellar Plan A before it's time to go to Plan B.
I don't think your H is completely done with you or your marriage, or he wouldn't have wanted to go out with you to the comedian. Instead, he would have said, "Screw it...I'm not going amywhere with her!"
This is hard, I did gently question WS - I asked if he has done anything formal. He states no, all that he has done is fill out paperwork, but has not filed anything. When I gave him the sceniario that steve told me to say, "imaging if you were truly in love with your wife and you both were engaged in a marriage you thoroughly enjoyed and looked forward to spending time together" He stated that he could imagine that. He has not yet agreed to speaking with MB's. He has an IC session on Tues with our MC and wants to discuss all of this with him. And see what his opinion is on speaking with MB's. He states he is leaning toward divorce but doesn't want to make a decision based on feelings alone. I am trying to hold the faith - so very hard, my instincts tell me to do the opposite of steve is telling me to do. So my only outlet right now is to post and vent and be frustrated here. I do like our MC, he understands what is going on and thinks that a couple can get back a "re-cennectedness". So I am hoping he will help make that clear to WS. and encourage WS to talking with MB's. Again all of this is so hard, part of thinks wouldn't just be easier to lie down and be done? The bigger part of me is fighting for what used to be my life. I feel as though to heal this will heal my soul. Or should it be the other way around. I know I am tired of feeling sad and alone.
He states he is leaning toward divorce but doesn't want to make a decision based on feelings alone.
This is the best possible response he could have given you.
Take this as a positive. He's THINKING. Most wayturds lose their thinker while in their fog.
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I know I am tired of feeling sad and alone.
This is why self-care in plan A is so important. Plan A requires self control which requires energy and mental grit. This is why we keep asking if you are getting enough sleep, exercise, recreation.
Tonight, watch a hysterically funny movie. Laughter is required. If your WH joins in, bonus points. If not, he loses the gift of laughter, but you don't. How about YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN ???
Tomorrow is the dreaded V-Day. If WH disappoints you, no card, etc .... ask him to take you somewhere out in nature. Get outdoors away from the media hype. Whatever your particular weather conditions permit.
The bigger part of me is fighting for what used to be my life. I feel as though to heal this will heal my soul.
The process of surviving the aftermath of an A will heal your soul.
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I am trying to hold the faith - so very hard, my instincts tell me to do the opposite of steve is telling me to do.
The reason your insticnts are diffrent from what Steve is directing you towards because of the anger and the betrayal. You cant help but feel like you should be your WW instead of ing him right now. But eventually the anger will subside and if while you wait for that healing it will be too late to heal the M. Hang in there there is a reson plan A is temporary. You will know things are starting to turn around when your H begins to particpate actively in the recovery. I remember when I thought the day would never come and I would eventually just die from the exhaustion of having to bear the burden of this recovery. But the day did come with DH really began lifting the recovery wagon too and that was a turning point for us. I hope he gets on board with talking with Steve it will help speed up your process.
Bad turn of events - I returned home from grocery shopping. WS informed me that he will not be home this evening and needs to go and talk to OW. Here is the letter he gave me (oh and I am in the house while he is getting ready to leave - I am in the twilight zone) Here is the letter:
"Last week you jumped to conclusions as to where I was and what I was doing Sunday, I am going to save you some trouble this week. This afternoon I am going to see OW. We have some things to talk about. It isn't a sex thing so don't go there. I am not sure what time I will be home but I will be home. What stands between you and i working things out is OW. I put her there so that means she is a very important part of this whole freaking mess. I know you think I should just walk away and maybe I should but I can't. My struggle is why?? I have very strong feelings for her so why would I walk away from that? Many of these feelings are the same that you and I shared years ago and we couldn't have walked away then. No one has been able to show me a good reason to walk away from my feelings. You asked me if I have stated anything that can't be undone meaning divorce or something. The honest answer is NO I have not done anything like that and I meant what i said this morning I have no plans of having papers served to you. If dissolution is the route I choose then I will give you those myself. I owe you that. I still deeply care about you and a part of me always will which is what makes this whole thing so damn hard! You were and still are one of my best friends and the pain and hurt I have caused you is sometimes unbearable for me. you asked me about the perfect marriage. If I want to be with someone the rest of my life to grow old with. The answer is yes I do not want to end up like ----. I am just not sure who that other person is right now. Did we have the perfect marriage before. NO do I want to back to that? NO. Although a part of me sometimes does just to feel normal again but it would be living a lie! As you said we deserve better than that. Do I know what I have with Amy? again No I don't. All I know is my feelings right now but is that what you should base life on? I don't know. I honestly never knew how much you cared. Why you did not leave me right New years eve is beyond me. Life would have been much easier for me at least. I was always confident in my decision until you did not leave. I know this is hard to read and probably very painful but it is where I am at right now! Fro that I apologize. I have never been good with expressing my feelings so it is easier for me to put them on paper. Again I am sorry. So what does this mean for mean and you? You tell me! Based on feelings alone I say its over, but is that the right decision?????
My SIL came over and sat with me for a couple of hours, I talked to my mom on the phone and 2 friends. I am done. I am filing for D on Monday. There is no plan A or B; anyone who could get ready for a date with his girlfriend in front of his wife is broken inside.
There is no plan A or B; anyone who could get ready for a date with his girlfriend in front of his wife is broken inside.
I am so sorry that your H is behaving like a complete A**hole. Talk about cake eating. He is being such a coward by MAKING YOU want to leave him so he can be free to to blame you for ending the relationship. My female side is saying change the locks on the door, burn his clothes in a pile on the front lawn. My rational side is saying breathe, time for Plan B. If and when he decides to "come back" to you then you can decide if what he is offering in healing is worth the damage he has caused. I really feel your pain and I hope you know that even though we cant really fix your stich we are here to listen and offer a shoulder when ever you need to cry or vent.
There is no plan A or B; anyone who could get ready for a date with his girlfriend in front of his wife is broken inside
Oh don't I know it. During my Plan A 6 days before my planned beginning to Plan B), my WH cooked dinner, did laundry and had the dishes in the dishwasher. Then he told me how he was going out for the evening. I "Knew" where he was going and with whom. He tried to engage me in an argument. I simply looked into his eyes, touched his arm and said, "I can not accept a marriage where you have a girlfriend, thank you for making dinner." and I walked away. He followed and asked, "what does that mean?" I repeated myself. It was hard. I just want to pack up his stuff and tell him to GTFO. I didn't though because that would not be going towards MY plan that would just be reacting to what HE did and give him the power.
I took my power back. It is harder than you know. The night before Plan B, I was a mess. I was at work and I couldn't go 5 mins without crying. I almost thought I couldn't do it. But I did and I feel better about it.
We will be here for you hun, no matter which way you choose.
He called his lawyer and had the paperwork drawn up, I have been to my lawyer today. Now it is just a number game. He now drinks at least one large cocktail every night, this is only since the A started. He is not the person I once knew. He is hell bent on dissolving this marriage and being with her. After what he did on Saturday, I need to be away from the situation. I am getting off the ride. If one day he realizes what he has done and it is not too late...who knows. All I know right now is 8 weeks ago I thought my life was good. Now it is not. I can't stop crying (Dr. upped my anti D) and I feel as though it were actually possible to die of a broken heart. I am still in a tail spin over how quickly this has all happened and who this person is. I understand the literature and what Steven H told me...but it feels different to live it. Like I said before, for now I need to get off the ride and for him that means ending the marriage. I am still lost.
Remember to take advantage of your in real life support system. Your physician. Your loving family/friends.
I took a medical leave of absence from work when I was a mess after D-day. I think it was 4 weeks. The day I returned to work (feeling fairly stable) I had a patient on my schedule, a man, who was coming in to get a STD check because he found out his wife was cheating on him.
I was able to put my focus on HIM (my patient) and that was the day I knew I was able to help others in this situation.
Someday, this horrible experience of yours might be put to good use. You never know.
I have very strong feelings for her so why would I walk away from that? Many of these feelings are the same that you and I shared years ago and we couldn't have walked away then. No one has been able to show me a good reason to walk away from my feelings.
How bout the vows that he made to you before friends, family and God Almighty?
I agree with the vows part, it is almost like he had this fantasy/unrealistic scene built up in their heads regarding how this was going to play out. Once he made the connection to her, he gave up our marriage. I never had a chance and the last several weeks of this back and forth has been guilt on his part. I feel that he is headed for self destruction. But at this time I choose to not be here to witness it or pick up any pieces. I still just cannot get over the selfishness of it all and the overwhelming sadness. But I also know I don't want to live like this and I deserve better. Still....
I still just cannot get over the selfishness of it all and the overwhelming sadness. But I also know I don't want to live like this and I deserve better. Still....
You do deserve better than the sadness and selfishness that your WH is offering right now.
Sadness exsits beacuse you feel. Its Ok to mourn for the broken-ness of your heart. Once you can mourn its loss then you can go about healing it.
I would also make sure he understands that if he does not want to be your husband and be a faithful husband, then he doest not get to be "friends" with you after the divorce.
When you file for divorce, see if he can be immediately ordered out of your home.
All I know right now is 8 weeks ago I thought my life was good. Now it is not. I can't stop crying (Dr. upped my anti D) and I feel as though it were actually possible to die of a broken heart. I am still in a tail spin over how quickly this has all happened and who this person is. I understand the literature and what Steven H told me...but it feels different to live it. Like I said before, for now I need to get off the ride and for him that means ending the marriage. I am still lost.
mymissy, I have been following your thread...only can say you are in my prayers and to take one day at a time.
I understand that lost feeling and there were days I did not think I would make it. post here, call friends, look for support, pray, take care of yourself.
Most important don't feel like a victim even though you feel like one. Don't show that side to him.
I am just holding up...just.... We are just co-existing in the same house, I refuse to speak or look at him. We continues to lie and cheat. The OW H and I speak often continuing to attempt to stop the A. For me I don't know if there is any hope of saving...a lot of hurt has happened. I have started packing things like my china cabinet, he has said that he is going to buy me out of the house and that is OK by me (he built it with his first wife, I have never liked). I am currently at my mothers for the weekend to get some space and breathing room, then he is out of town for the next 5 days. I guess I will start apartment hunting and wait for the papers to be served before going back to my lawyers. It is sad, awful, ugly, and horrible I never thought anything like this could happen. The person I fell in love with is gone and I don't know who this stranger is. OW H and OW family is trying to scare her into reality and force her to stop playing both sides. I have no idea if that will work and even if it does - will the person I once knew return? I am hoping for a last minute miracle to attempt to save this marriage before it is too late and there is nothing to save. I am out of ideas at this point and am using Hope3343's quote that when there is nothing left to do...pray. So I am praying for God to intervene....
You have been so strong and brave thru this ordeal I have been impressed by your calmness. I hope that other BS's who are feeling similar pain can find the calmness and the strenght you have shown for their own journey. Sending you hugs and hope your way and hope your days ahead get better.
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The person I fell in love with is gone and I don't know who this stranger is. OW H and OW family is trying to scare her into reality and force her to stop playing both sides. I have no idea if that will work and even if it does - will the person I once knew return?
You cant make your H be anyone other than who he wants to be. You are just going to have to focus on making sure that you protect yourself from the hurt that he continues to cuase. If and when he retuns to be the person you knew and want to spend your life you can cross that bridge when you get there. For now Plan A yourself and take care of your needs and be there to fill your own happiness cup. The more you take care of yourself the easier you will be able to deal with what ever comes ahead on this journey.
Sometimes I am not sure where the strength is coming from...but it is there. The tears fall freely now, crying for what we had and what could have been. He has chosen her over me and I h
and I have exposed to who I can. OW H and OW family continue to try and scare her straight. I am pretty sure a chink was thrown into the mix tonight with all the text messaging trying to confuse. I have started to expose him to his most vulnerable family members. But I must remember that blood is always thicker than water. All I get out of this for now is a little satisfaction. My heart is broken and all I want to do now is throw in the towel. However, before throwing it in completely I have decided that I will go down swinging. And take down with me all that he is and has. I cannot wait to see it all fall apart. For now, I try to not let on how much he has hurt me...very hard!
Its Ok to cry. Infact its healing. Being brave does not mean no tears it means you proceed inspite of them.
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My heart is broken and all I want to do now is throw in the towel. However, before throwing it in completely I have decided that I will go down swinging.
Good for you. The thing I hear about exposure is that a trickle down is not as effective as nuclear. So there should not be a start and a slow exposure. If you are going that route to help break up the A then make it quick and enlrage the circle of exposure and seek the help of those who you expose to. Now if you are exposing to help inflict pain for the pain who have received thats a whole other stratergy.
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For now, I try to not let on how much he has hurt me...very hard!
There is no harm in him seeing how much pain he has caused. IMHO why should he be sheilded from what damage he has caused. If he has any concious at all he will FEEL the pain he sees in you. Let him see the heart he has crushed and let him be in awe of your strenght as you heal and patch your own heart back together inspite of the pain.
[quote] I have started to expose him to his most vulnerable family members. But I must remember that blood is always thicker than water. All I get out of this for now is a little {quote]
MM
When I exposed to close family members I asked for help in saving my M. Talked to MIL just recently and she said they-My two BIL's didn't have any advice for me and they did not know what to say to there sister.
I basically coached MIL and asked her to tell them to say what they wanted as long as they were fighting for my M>
BIL's and people who do not live in the situation can express what they feel in ways we as BS"s can not because it may be DJ's or AO's.
There is power in the fact that they can express whatever-however they want.Blood or not if they express there feelings (because both BIL's have been M over 20 years and have strong feelings about M) to sister it could have a profound affect that I could never achieve. If anything it puts pressure on the A that this person probably will not be welcome in the family.
Pressure on the A is exactly what will help to bust it up. That could be a big turning point.
Thank you for all your support. Here is the email I just received from WS.
I have a couple of questions for you. Why is it so hard to accept the fact that OW and I might actually love each other? People fall in love all the time. I have told you repeatedly what and who I want. OW has told OW H as well. Yet because its not what you want to hear its automatically wrong and our feelings can't be real. Why? What is it you to are trying to hold on too or is it the fear of change? Do you really feel it would be better to stay with someone who is in love with someone else than accept change? I know we handled this whole thing badly and we have hurt both you and OW H. But explain to me what you to are doing with all the stories? Do you feel that by causing stress and pain to the rest of our families will change the way OW and I feel about each other? Or is it simply revenge? Every time you guys have tried to destroy our relationship with half truths and lies she and I have grown stronger. You told me about all the people who lost respect for me. You might want to open your eyes. At first this was true but with what you and OW H have been doing has changed that perception. My family, most of the guys at work and even some of your own friends find your actions pathetic at best! Last night you two decided to take your frustration out on OW by telling me how she is playing both sides. My love for her doesn't allow me to believe that. Let's just suppose for a moment it was true. Who will get hurt? I will!!!!! I would think you guys would be over joyed at the thought of that so why warn me. Just makes me realize its another one of your stories and half truths. You call me a coward for not wanting to talk to you and OW H. I have offered to talk to OW H if he wants to. Why would I want to talk to you. I have told you what I want and how I feel. That makes me a coward because I don't want to stand there and be belittled and insulted? Hell I put up with that for 12 years. Why would I go back for more? I wish you and OW H all the happiness in the world for your future but please stop. Why do you insist on making me hate you? In the end hating you makes everything I am doing a whole lot easier so I guess I owe you two a big Thank you! You keep asking me when they are going to serve you papers. Again I am telling you THEY won't. I asked them not too! I will do that myself. Does that make me a coward too? Anyway the rough draft will be emailed to me an Monday. After I review it I will send it to you probably on Wednesday so you can take it to your attorney for review. By the way to save you some time I had already told my aunt about us and Mom told Grandma and Grandpa last night. Anyone else I can notify for you just let me know. You told me you were not coming home until Sunday night. Well unless you are in a big freakin hurry just wait until Monday morning. I will be gone by then and you can have the house to yourself! I gave you your space when you asked so give me mine! Feel free to share this with OW H as you seem to share everything else.
Here was my response: Wow, First of all, it is wrong to step out of your marriage, that is why it is so hard to accept. Second, what do you mean I belittled you and insulted you for 12 years? What are you talking about? I was your biggest supporter and most of the time went out of my way to make sure that you always had my full support in anything you endeavored. As for half truths and stories, I have not told any lies. In fact I kept most of this to myself, until yesterday. As for causing pain and stress to our families, it is my belief that they have the right to know what is going on and how much disrespect you have demonstrated to everyone, especially me. You love her, fine. Were divorcing, fine. But as for you being clear about that - you have not been clear at all until this past week and last weekend. In fact, most of this has been done in deception and behind my back. As for OW being clear to OW H, well that is not what he has said. Who does one believe? How would you know what my friends think and I have never said anything to anyone at your work except **** and a little bit to ***** in an email for the first time yesterday. So I have no idea what you are talking about in regards to the "people at work". If you want to hate me, fine. I guess if that makes this all easier for you. Whatever. Then I guess you are justified in your all of your actions. But know this....I am sorry I made your life hell for all of these years and loved you with all my heart. How was I to know that was so wrong, I am not even sure what I did wrong? As far as I can tell - nothing, just simply lived a life that was busy as I helped raise your children. My bad... And emailing me divorce papers when you are out of town is not handing them to me personally.
You have one of the all time best people following your thread-PEPPerband.
Have you ever seen one of Peps posts when she takes a WAYTURDS letter or e-mail apart to disclose the whole meaning.
Some of them are amazing. Before responding to H it may be wise to post it on here first so some Reverse Babble or REAL TRUTH can be spun into it with a reply to the WW.
Please don't engage in these email exchanges with WH. If you want to really make him mad just ignore him. You cannot reason with him so why bother? You might as well be banging your head on a brick wall!! Just continue with exposure and stop communicating with him at all. Do some things for yourself. Exercise. Eat well. Get a massage. Take care of yourself. But, STOP trying to reson with a fogged out wayturd!!! Completely pointless and it will just frustrate you even more!
Missy -- just take a deep breath about the divorce.
My WH was so anxious to get me the papers. Instead of having me served by a stranger, he gave the papers to his dad. His dad, my BIGGEST supporter, thought it best to wait a day or two before giving me the papers.
WH threw a fit -- in a rage he tracked down his dad and had him sign the papers that I had been served, even though I hadn't been.
Now... here's the intersting part. That was ONE YEAR ago. Yep, we have attorney's and have been to court a few times. But, WH drags his feet on everything. He stalls at providing financial backup. He balks about paying temporary support. He hides from the kids and his family.
He's a bully -- the email your WH wrote could have easily been by my WH.
You, Missy, need to be prepared for the battle. Get all the credit card statements. Find receipts. Stock pile some cash. Access funds from line of credit for attorney fees.
It will take a long time from filing to divorce. Protect yourself now for the future.
And he will get meaner and meaner as this goes on. The influence of the OW will transform him.
And his family? Don't write them off because they are blood related. My ILs, BILs, SILs, etc. all support ME. As they said, it's not a matter of who's right or wrong -- but what is right and wrong. He is in the wrong.
You will need supporters to help you through this ugly process. Divorce is ugly.
And his family? Don't write them off because they are blood related. My ILs, BILs, SILs, etc. all support ME. As they said, it's not a matter of who's right or wrong --
but what is right and wrong. He is in the wrong.
Her- WW's Family is now my biggest supporter!!!
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Missy, your WH's email is standard WS script-just a load of crap.
Your exposure is working, and he and OW are feeling the heat.
He is telling you that people are finding you to be "pathetic" in order to get you to stop exposing.
The light of day is shining on their sordid little pig-rutting.
Don't wait for him to file papers.
YOU file them first, on the grounds of adultery, and name the OW.
That will put her in the public record as being a home-wrecking skank, for all to see in years to come.
I am being told almost the same thing. I have an appointment with a lawyer this week to start the legal process.
Let him do the dirty work. And when he files, ask for him to pay your legal fees to DEFEND yourself against him suing you for divorce.
I had to live with myself after 24 years of marriage. I did not want to be the one who filed.
I was in the same situation, except it was 26 years of marriage when HE filed. He was forced to do all the dirty work and he did have to pay all of my legal fees.
I told him that I would in no way help him dismantle our family, and I didn't. I agree. If you do not want a divorce, make HIM do it and make sure everyone knows that fact.
P.S. Please block his email and shut off your phone. You need Plan B *right now* to shield yourself from any more of his coldblooded cruelty and outright stupidity and selfishness.
Take control of this by going to an immediate Plan B.
P.P.S. NO SERVING THE PAPERS HIMSELF. THAT IS SICKENINGLY CRUEL. DON'T GIVE HIM THE SATISFACTION. MAKE HIM USE A PROCESS SERVER.
XWH actually gave the papers to our 20-year-old Son to hand to me. I sent the papers back to the lawyer and insisted on a process server.
Again - Plan B NOW. If he wants his divorce so badly, make him do 100% of it through his attorney. Take control of this and do not allow him to rub his filthy OW and his filthy divorce in your face for one second longer. They are both getting off on your pain and that has to stop NOW.
I am currently at my mother's, he leaves to go out of town in the morning. I will go home then and then go to work. He will be out of town until Friday. Outside of the text messaging that myself and OW H did last night to the both of the WS's and then the email this morning - there has been no contact between us. I blind cc'ed his letter and my response to his sister, his aunt and 2 of my friends. This way it is apparent how cruel he is being. And that way I cannot be accused of the lies he states I am telling. Other than that - at this time I am going ahead with the divorce. But - I am letting him file and he will pay all the legal fees. As heartbreaking as this is...I feel emotionally used up and not invested...just kind of done. It is sad to watch everything crash in a speeding train wreck of a mess. But I take comfort in the facts that I never got ugly about this, I gave 110%, I tried to recover the marriage, and I have been honest with everyone including his children. He cannot state any of that.
Mymissy, I know how discouraging this new turn of events have been.
Read the books, read other posts and you will see this is very typical.
There are some threads about wayward babble. Read it.
Now stop worrying about him and start worrying about YOU. Make yourself unavailable, plan B him, don't pick up on his calls.
Serving you papers??? What a horse's rump. Look at my thread...my XH tried to give me the papers and I ignored. It took about 4x by a server and a couple of extra weeks (time and expense for XH) to finally serve me. Make nothing easy.
NEVER answer an email-- if you do wait at least 24 hours. Saves alot of pain and first gut reaction.
It will get worse but it could get better.
Have faith in God, and yourself. One day at a time and breathe.
I have a couple of questions for you. Why is it so hard to accept the fact that OW and I might actually love each other? People fall in love all the time. I have told you repeatedly what and who I want. OW has told OW H as well. Yet because its not what you want to hear its automatically wrong and our feelings can't be real. Why? What is it you to are trying to hold on too or is it the fear of change? Do you really feel it would be better to stay with someone who is in love with someone else than accept change? I know we handled this whole thing badly and we have hurt both you and OW H. But explain to me what you to are doing with all the stories? Do you feel that by causing stress and pain to the rest of our families will change the way OW and I feel about each other? Or is it simply revenge? Every time you guys have tried to destroy our relationship with half truths and lies she and I have grown stronger. You told me about all the people who lost respect for me. You might want to open your eyes. At first this was true but with what you and OW H have been doing has changed that perception. My family, most of the guys at work and even some of your own friends find your actions pathetic at best! Last night you two decided to take your frustration out on OW by telling me how she is playing both sides. My love for her doesn't allow me to believe that. Let's just suppose for a moment it was true. Who will get hurt? I will!!!!! I would think you guys would be over joyed at the thought of that so why warn me. Just makes me realize its another one of your stories and half truths. You call me a coward for not wanting to talk to you and OW H. I have offered to talk to OW H if he wants to. Why would I want to talk to you. I have told you what I want and how I feel. That makes me a coward because I don't want to stand there and be belittled and insulted? Hell I put up with that for 12 years. Why would I go back for more? I wish you and OW H all the happiness in the world for your future but please stop. Why do you insist on making me hate you? In the end hating you makes everything I am doing a whole lot easier so I guess I owe you two a big Thank you!
He is just plain being cruel by using the word WE and OUR so much as in him and OW are a team and not I. If and when his A falls apart I wonder how he will be able to justify to himself his mean and hurtful behavior. I am so sorry that this is turing so ugly against you. Please focus on taking care of you and making sure that you are doing everything you need to IN YOUR BEST INTEREST. If its in your best interest to make this progress towards D slow then plese dont help him along at all. Infact I agree with the block his emails dont read his hate mail any more advise. You dont need any more of his WW craaaaaap . Remove yourself from his process and dont allow him the benefit of any communication from him. If only allows him to fuel his own justifactions and gives him an opportunity to hurt you further while advancing towards his goals .
Start a new post and call out to School bus. Cut and paste his email and if she is around she will analysis it for you and give you some insight into the wayward mind.
I have never posted to you before and confess to not having read your entire thread but I read the e-mail from your WS and just had to laugh because the history rewrite is so typical of the WS speak.
But the strange thing was that as I was reading your WS e-mail I was thinking that it also sounded earily like the e-mails OW sent me after I exposed to OW FB friends. Could it be that your WS OW wrote the e-mail or at least had a hand in it's creation?
There are others on the forum who will be able to read between the lines better than I but take heart in the fact that it is very typical of WSs everywhere and try not to take it too personally.
School Bus, Someone on the forum suggested that I start a new thread (mine is Mymissy) and see if you would analyze my WH latest email to me.
Here is the email: I have a couple of questions for you. Why is it so hard to accept the fact that OW and I might actually love each other? People fall in love all the time. I have told you repeatedly what and who I want. OW has told OW H as well. Yet because its not what you want to hear its automatically wrong and our feelings can't be real. Why? What is it you to are trying to hold on too or is it the fear of change? Do you really feel it would be better to stay with someone who is in love with someone else than accept change? I know we handled this whole thing badly and we have hurt both you and OW H. But explain to me what you to are doing with all the stories? Do you feel that by causing stress and pain to the rest of our families will change the way OW and I feel about each other? Or is it simply revenge? Every time you guys have tried to destroy our relationship with half truths and lies she and I have grown stronger. You told me about all the people who lost respect for me. You might want to open your eyes. At first this was true but with what you and OW H have been doing has changed that perception. My family, most of the guys at work and even some of your own friends find your actions pathetic at best! Last night you two decided to take your frustration out on OW by telling me how she is playing both sides. My love for her doesn't allow me to believe that. Let's just suppose for a moment it was true. Who will get hurt? I will!!!!! I would think you guys would be over joyed at the thought of that so why warn me. Just makes me realize its another one of your stories and half truths. You call me a coward for not wanting to talk to you and OW H. I have offered to talk to OW H if he wants to. Why would I want to talk to you. I have told you what I want and how I feel. That makes me a coward because I don't want to stand there and be belittled and insulted? Hell I put up with that for 12 years. Why would I go back for more? I wish you and OW H all the happiness in the world for your future but please stop. Why do you insist on making me hate you? In the end hating you makes everything I am doing a whole lot easier so I guess I owe you two a big Thank you! You keep asking me when they are going to serve you papers. Again I am telling you THEY won't. I asked them not too! I will do that myself. Does that make me a coward too? Anyway the rough draft will be emailed to me an Monday. After I review it I will send it to you probably on Wednesday so you can take it to your attorney for review. By the way to save you some time I had already told my aunt about us and Mom told Grandma and Grandpa last night. Anyone else I can notify for you just let me know. You told me you were not coming home until Sunday night. Well unless you are in a big freakin hurry just wait until Monday morning. I will be gone by then and you can have the house to yourself! I gave you your space when you asked so give me mine! Feel free to share this with OW H as you seem to share everything else.
I'm not schoolbus, but I do have a question: Why on earth does he need your permission / agreement /acceptance of his affair? If he really loves this woman, what difference would YOUR feelings possibly make??
And again: Do NOT allow him to serve you with divorce papers. If he sends them, immediately send them back to his attorney and insist they use a process server. And tell the attorney that this is an Adultery case.
School Bus, Someone on the forum suggested that I start a new thread (mine is Mymissy) and see if you would analyze my WH latest email to me.
I hope schoolbus sees this soon and helps you deal with the Bullcr*p that your WW is sending you. Schoolbus was one of the people who really really helped me get thru my darkest hours and I remain deeply thankful for her help. Hi SchoolBus
Schoolbus is like no other in reading and analysing what people are really trying to say by translating the words they choose to use. I am sure she will be able to give you more info on this email from your WW that will help you better understand how to deal with him in this moment.
I'm not schoolbus, but I do have a question: Why on earth does he need your permission / agreement /acceptance of his affair? If he really loves this woman, what difference would YOUR feelings possibly make??
I am not sure of any answers right now, I am so hurt by the email. I can not believe that anyone could be so cruel.
That is a good thread, thanks for sending.
I am pretty sure he and her had a fantasy worked out in their head. He was completely convinced that the minute I found out about the affair that I would walk away - not tolerating that kind of behavior. I threw a complete chink in his plans when I stayed and plan A'd and tried to work on the marriage. Now he is just being ugly. And I cannot stop crying...
And again: Do NOT allow him to serve you with divorce papers. If he sends them, immediately send them back to his attorney and insist they use a process server. And tell the attorney that this is an Adultery case.
I'll take a crack at this, until SB comes along....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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I have a couple of questions for you.
A question is sometimes not a question at all, but a statement. Look, you'll see.
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Why is it so hard to accept the fact that OW and I might actually love each other?
This is NOT a question. It is a declaration posing as a question. The declaration is .... "Why are you so dense?"
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People fall in love all the time.
He neglected to say "Married people" ... oops !
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I have told you repeatedly what and who I want.
Same declaration. "Why are you so dense?"
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OW has told OW H as well.
This is to give their adultery the appearance of being on the up and up. It is a statement to make themselves look good.
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Yet because its not what you want to hear its automatically wrong and our feelings can't be real. Why?
One does wonder, exactly WHO he is trying to convince these "feelings are real". Himself perhaps?
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What is it you to are trying to hold on too or is it the fear of change?
The entire content of this horrid email is a hatchet job... on you !
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Do you really feel it would be better to stay with someone who is in love with someone else than accept change?
Hatchet job.
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I know we handled this whole thing badly and we have hurt both you and OW H. But explain to me what you to are doing with all the stories?
I love the "but" following an admission of wrong doing on their parts. Any admission followed by a "but" is not an actual admission. The "but" negates the entire previous comment.
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Do you feel that by causing stress and pain to the rest of our families will change the way OW and I feel about each other?
Oh, you caused stress and pain. Exactly what exposure is meant to do. Good on you! OW got pissed off, I guarantee.
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Or is it simply revenge?
Hatchet job.
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Every time you guys have tried to destroy our relationship with half truths and lies she and I have grown stronger.
Stress and pain .... remember, they are "closer" because of stress and pain. Therefore, WH needs to perform a hatchet job, ON HIS WIFE.
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You told me about all the people who lost respect for me. You might want to open your eyes
Very few functional adults "respect" adultery. Tiger Woods in the news is actually increasing the loss of respect.
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At first this was true but with what you and OW H have been doing has changed that perception.
He's full it it.
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My family, most of the guys at work and even some of your own friends find your actions pathetic at best!
All these people have suddenly come to "respect" adultery ??? Does this make sense? WHO is he kidding?
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Last night you two decided to take your frustration out on OW by telling me how she is playing both sides.
OW is being played as a victim here. The adulterous wh*** is now the victim of the wife.
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My love for her doesn't allow me to believe that.
In other words, he's gone blind,deaf, and completely dumb.
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Let's just suppose for a moment it was true.
I think this reveals he has some doubts ! Interesting.
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Who will get hurt? I will!!!!!
Huh?
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I would think you guys would be over joyed at the thought of that so why warn me. Just makes me realize its another one of your stories and half truths.
He's completely lost in the fog here.
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You call me a coward for not wanting to talk to you and OW H.
You did? Right on !
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I have offered to talk to OW H if he wants to.
Bullchit.
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Why would I want to talk to you.
He's afraid to talk to you.
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I have told you what I want and how I feel.
He's afraid to talk to you because he is not interested in FACTS ... he is only interested in his feelings and his wants. Very foggy.
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That makes me a coward because I don't want to stand there and be belittled and insulted?
He is doing a hatchet job again. Don't fall for it.
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Hell I put up with that for 12 years.
Any man who says he "put up with" his wife for 12 years before he committed adultery ... is a gold-ribbon idiot. This makes him appear the fool, not you.
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Why would I go back for more?
He's blame shifting, because he has doubts. Blaming you makes his doubts go to the back of the room for awhile.
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I wish you and OW H all the happiness in the world for your future but please stop.
Don't you wonder why this sentence did not end where it was supposed to end ... right after the word "future.
"But please stop" as a continuation of that thought means please stop the happiness in your future. Interesting.
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Why do you insist on making me hate you?
Hold the phone !! He just wished you all the happiness in the world. Next sentence, he "hates" you. He is very conflicted about his feelings for you. That's for damn certain, skippy.
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In the end hating you makes everything I am doing a whole lot easier so I guess I owe you two a big Thank you!
See what I mean. The hatchet job on you, is to assuage his guilt. The sarcastic "thank you" is quite nasty.
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You keep asking me when they are going to serve you papers. Again I am telling you THEY won't. I asked them not too! I will do that myself. Does that make me a coward too?
He can serve dissolution papers until the cows come home. He cannot serve divorce papers.
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Anyway the rough draft will be emailed to me an Monday. After I review it I will send it to you probably on Wednesday so you can take it to your attorney for review.
Do not do jackshyt with those papers. Ignore them completely unless properly served.
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By the way to save you some time I had already told my aunt about us
He jacked up some story to make adultery pretty. He REALLY disliked exposure.
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and Mom told Grandma and Grandpa last night. Anyone else I can notify for you just let me know.
Sarcasm. The tool of the weak.
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You told me you were not coming home until Sunday night. Well unless you are in a big freakin hurry just wait until Monday morning. I will be gone by then and you can have the house to yourself!
More sarcasm. He's NOT a happy camper.
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I gave you your space when you asked so give me mine! Feel free to share this with OW H as you seem to share everything else.
He's REALLY unhappy with OW's hubby.
In any future correspondence, refer to OW as "Joes wife" ... NEVER by her name. Always by her husband's name, as his wife. Got that?
I will agree with Pepperband, and add that my first impression was that WH really, really, really wants you to agree to this as being best for all of you. That way, he can destroy his family guilt-free.
He is very angry that the truth is making him look bad and he's bending his brain into a pretzel to somehow blame you for HIS choices.
But I haven't seen a WS yet that who doesn't do that.
Again: If this is so wonderful and he and OW are so happy, why would exposure bother them? Wouldn't they want everyone to know?
And if this is all so wonderful for THEM, why would they need YOU to agree that it's wonderful? Why would they care a rat's butt whether you agree with it or not?
Thanks Pep and everyone else. That helps me understand, unfortunately it doesn't help with the sting of the words and more hurt and betrayal that came with them.
It also doesn't change that I am packing up the last 12 years of my life and cannot stop crying while doing it.
I keep going between forcing myself to move forward into some sort of Plan B/save myself/can't live in this situation - to praying for a miracle that he will have some sort of epiphany and realize what he is doing (I am starting to believe that isn't going to happen). It is hard to force one foot in front of the other to move forward into this mode and I keep hoping someone/anyone would tell me what to do? My family and his SIL keep tell me that I am taking the right steps and it is now about minimizing the fall out to myself.
I still cannot believe that this is happening.....
This transition time between Plan A and Plan B is HARD.
It is possibly the most difficult thing that I have ever done in my life. I felt like I was giving up and I was losing everything. It sucks because my WH was my WORLD. He was where I turned when I was hurting for almost 18 years. He was there for me through A LOT. And when I was at my lowest point in my life, I had NO ONE to turn to. Or so I thought.
A Supervisor at my workplace, packed up her kids and left her alcoholic H a couple of weeks before I initiated Plan B. I was told that the people who helped her move, had to literally lift her up and remove her from her house. This realization that I was feeling things that were normal helped me move through it.
You have shown so much strength up until this moment. Plan B isn't easy, but emotionally it feels better eventually(and I am only 2 months in). You won't obsess about where your WH is and what he may be doing because you will be living a life for YOU.
We will all be here for you. Keep up the good work. Be strong. You can do this.
Its hard not to take that personally. Right now I feel as though the best thing I can do is get out of the line of fire. I am continuing with moving forward, as hard as that is. I can pack one box and then cry for an hour. I am planning to return to my mothers this weekend and then he is out of town again next week. This gives me at least a 1 1/2 week break from having to be in the same house with him. We are not speaking through any media, all messages are being relayed through his mother. I don't know what else to do at this point.
Right now I feel as though the best thing I can do is get out of the line of fire.
That is sort of the purpose of plan B. To remove the BS from the line if the WS fire so th the WW fogbabble does not burn what ever remaining traces of love that might remain after the D day and Plan A explosion.
DO YOU HAVE ANY AD's FROM THE DOC FOR THE CRYING. They are a life saves for the short run and dont be afraid to use them to help you get a full nights rest. YOU HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF PHYSICAL SELF else it only compunds the effects of the emotinal trauma.
But the strange thing was that as I was reading your WS e-mail I was thinking that it also sounded earily like the e-mails OW sent me after I exposed to OW FB friends. Could it be that your WS OW wrote the e-mail or at least had a hand in it's creation?
There are others on the forum who will be able to read between the lines better than I but take heart in the fact that it is very typical of WSs everywhere and try not to take it too personally.
TM
I have to agree with this. I did not realize that PP (OW) was writing some of the emails or dictating them also. I hope school bus will look at your thread. She was able to tell me line by line who wrote what and why. It was a help.
Well the latest email that I have received was almost business like. To inform me that he had finally received the rough draft of the "paperwork" and had sent it back for some corrections and I should have a final draft soon. His email then asked me if the dogs needed anything as he would be running that errand this weekend. WOW is all I can say, I keep trying to give myself a reality check and I am certain this is not the reality I signed up for. I have not spoken, emailed, texted him in a week, he has been out of town and I left before he returned today to spend the weekend at my mothers again. All communication has been through his mother. I feel as though his mother is sympathetic to me and the horrible situation, she really provides no support. I am scared, I feel alone, I have my family and friends, but that is just support from the outside. The person that always provided the support from inside the home is now gone. I still cant believe that he is throwing away 12 years of marriage for a relationship that was based on 2-3 months of email, facebook, texts, and only a handful of actual meetings. He is definitely an alien. However that changes nothing, and I am still scared and still alone. I continue to pack up the house and place the boxes in a storage unit for now. Very sad....
He built the house with his first wife, it sits on family land, and I am going to let him buy me out or sell it if he cant buy. I have been packing all of the stuff that came with me 12 years ago, its a lot. I also have a business based in the home and cleaning that stuff out has taken some time. I was also hoping that empty walls and cupboards and bookshelves would jolt something in him...I know - I am reaching on that one. The house is also not something I would want to keep, to much yard, to much house. If we are splitting up. I would prefer to move into town, into something smaller.
He is definitely an alien. However that changes nothing, and I am still scared and still alone. I continue to pack up the house and place the boxes in a storage unit for now. Very sad....
((((mymissy)))) I am trying to reach thru the computer screen and give you a comforting hug Hope you feel it. Sorry you are feeling so low, It will get better.
I don't know if you realize it but I have been on both sides of the fence-WW & BS
If I really wanted to fight for my M I would drag this out legally any way I could just because my feelings are so strong about A's in MR.
You have a start on PLB but info needs to be shut off completly unless they can help you or fight 4 you. Also to PROTECT yourself from his BABBling WW mindset.
Is the house paid for? If it is and you don't have the funds let H pay for it. Would he let it go to default?? Or drag it out with him not living there.
Remember your still his legal W. You don't have to agree with any of this tripe he is throwing out to you.
Who gives a rats petuty who built the house OR IF IT SITS ON parents land.
Your his W. Are you just gonna roll over and let his ALDUTROUS AFFAIR PARTNER move into YOUR MARITAL HOME?????????????
Is WW's family supportive of you? They could be your best allies.
WH's family sympathetic, not exactly supportive, telling me to save myself. Not sure I have much fight left, the last 8 weeks have been an emotional nightmare. I plan to drag it out as long as possible, but at some point if one wants out, it will go through.
Not sure I have much fight left, the last 8 weeks have been an emotional nightmare. I plan to drag it out as long as possible, but at some point if one wants out, it will go through.
Given the turmoil of the last 8 weeks your pain is understandable.
That being said its time to step back and re-ask yourself
WHAT DO YOU WANT ?
Yes its a tough road this recovery. Yes its going to be you and you along pulling this wagon for a while. Yes it can be done.
From your posts it reads as if at this point you are just wiling to do what ever your WH wants.
How about what you want. If you dont want a D then stop preparing for you and laying out the red carpet for him so he can get what he wants.
Are you ready to throw in the towle beacuse You want a D or are you ready to throw in the towel because you are too tired of fighting.
If you are tired then take a REST.
DO NOTHING. DONT PACK DONT RESPOND TO EMAILS DONT HELP HIM GET THE D THAT WANTS.
Then when you are rested and ready either resume the fight or decide what YOU want and do that.
I know its not easy but thats no reason you give up. You are stronger than that! Even I can see that from all the way here
am not looking for an off board romance, I just want to save my marriage. I am watching it go down in a quick fire. What do you mean the board is being used against me. I have done everything people have told me, trusting yet again.
At the time it appeared you may be headed for some type of MRecovery. It just seemed odd to me that just like that after printing stuff off the site it went into the crapper.
Maybe I'm just reading too much into.
I apologize for contacting you off the board.
I apologize to the board. Like to see PM's enabled.
My thoughts on that are: he had decided that D was the route he was taking before I found out about the A. He really thought I would walk away and when I didn't He was confused. Now he is migrating toward her and by the OW H and I attempting to ruin their night last weekend, ensued the terrible email that he sent the next morning. My WS tends to be very impulsive and when he has an idea he runs with it. This has been his idea, I also think that by allowing the A to continue it will self destruct. Unfortunately that may mean D for me to allow that to happen.
Not sure I have much fight left, the last 8 weeks have been an emotional nightmare. I plan to drag it out as long as possible, but at some point if one wants out, it will go through.
Given the turmoil of the last 8 weeks your pain is understandable.
That being said its time to step back and re-ask yourself
WHAT DO YOU WANT ?
Yes its a tough road this recovery. Yes its going to be you and you along pulling this wagon for a while. Yes it can be done.
From your posts it reads as if at this point you are just wiling to do what ever your WH wants.
How about what you want. If you dont want a D then stop preparing for you and laying out the red carpet for him so he can get what he wants.
Are you ready to throw in the towle beacuse You want a D or are you ready to throw in the towel because you are too tired of fighting.
If you are tired then take a REST.
DO NOTHING. DONT PACK DONT RESPOND TO EMAILS DONT HELP HIM GET THE D THAT WANTS.
Then when you are rested and ready either resume the fight or decide what YOU want and do that.
I know its not easy but thats no reason you give up. You are stronger than that! Even I can see that from all the way here
Okay, I will comment in red for you. Pay close attention to the third paragraph, because in this case, that's what this letter is allllllllll about. I don't know what you and OW's H did, but you really got to him. You hit him very hard with it, and he took it to heart. He does try to say he didn't, but he DID. Good job on it, whatever it was.
PARAGRAPH ONE I have a couple of questions for you. Why is it so hard to accept the fact that OW and I might actually love each other? People fall in love all the time. I have told you repeatedly what and who I want. OW has told OW H as well. Yet because its not what you want to hear its automatically wrong and our feelings can't be real. Why? Basically introductory. He is using rhetorical questions to attempt to declare love for OW. This is purposeful in nature, because paragraph three is the true nature of this letter. He does this opening paragraph unwittingly, by the way. I doubt he realizes that the nature of the letter actually is anger and outrage at your bomb hitting directly on-target. This paragraph opens as defensive toward the affair - however, the language is weak in terms of the structure. He uses rhetorical language when a more direct approach would have been much stronger.
Don't you think a declarative "I LOVE MY OW MORE THAN LIFE ITSELF, AND YOUR ATTEMPT TO SEPARATE US WILL NEVER WORK," would have been more effective?
PARAGRAPH TWO What is it you to are trying to hold on too or is it the fear of change? Do you really feel it would be better to stay with someone who is in love with someone else than accept change? I know we handled this whole thing badly and we have hurt both you and OW H. But explain to me what you to are doing with all the stories? Exposure is getting to me. Do you feel that by causing stress and pain to the rest of our families will change the way OW and I feel about each other? Or is it simply revenge? Every time you guys have tried to destroy our relationship with half truths and lies she and I have grown stronger. I have tried to tell others that what you say is half-truth and lies. So far this hasn't worked, but I'm giving it my best shot. You told me about all the people who lost respect for me. You might want to open your eyes. At first this was true And by the way, this is still getting to me, so I am going to try to hit you hard with something, and here it comes but with what you and OW H have been doing has changed that perception. So I hit you back now, and somehow it wasn't really hard enough, because whatever it is that you and OWH did, it has cut me to the core, and my family and friends now know something REALLY ugly and that just is killing me. My family, most of the guys at work and even some of your own friends find your actions pathetic at best! Just so you know, when someone tells you your actions are "pathetic", it usually means they are trying to brush you aside as ineffective to them because whatever you did has been like a nuclear bomb to them and they have no ability to respond. So their response is to act as though you didn't hurt them at all - they call you "pathetic" in an attempt to paint you as weak and ineffective, when in fact you have struck them a mortal blow.
PARAGRAPH THREE - THE MONEY SHOT Last night you two decided to take your frustration out on OW by telling me how she is playing both sides. My guess is you told him that OW is telling her H she loves her H, and your H that she also loves him. In other words, she is a cake-eater. Big surprise? My love for her doesn't allow me to believe that. In other words, "I don't want to believe that, I can't believe it, because if I do I am a complete and total idiot who is being used. So I will cling to my knight in shining armor role for a little longer. Although, truth be told, I actually DO believe it. I have known for awhile now. Look at my weak argument in paragraph one - because paragraph one contains the words of a WOMAN...guess who has spoken these words to YOUR HUSBAND? Let's just suppose for a moment it was true. Who will get hurt? I will!!!!! I would think you guys would be over joyed at the thought of that so why warn me. I am crushed that the two of you can see me at my weakest point in life, that my secrets are out there for all to see, and that I am now poised for the greatest crash I will ever take, and that it will be PUBLIC and on display. I don't know that I will be able to do this, and to think that my WIFE will be laughing at me. I have no chance. ---- See note at bottom. Just makes me realize its another one of your stories and half truths. I am going to hold out the hope that maybe my OW will change her mind. I am weakly optimistic, but already know my fate.
PARAGRAPH FOUR You call me a coward for not wanting to talk to you and OW H. I have offered to talk to OW H if he wants to. Why would I want to talk to you. I have told you what I want and how I feel. That makes me a coward because I don't want to stand there and be belittled and insulted? I am actually open to talking to you, but not in the way we have talked in the past. I am afraid of what I might have to hear, and the way we have communicated in the past has not been effective. Hell I put up with that for 12 years. Why would I go back for more? This is an open question - do you notice that he leaves it open and unanswered - where the other seemingly rhetorical questions were answered? He is actually asking for an answer to the question - what is there back there for me? I wish you and OW H all the happiness in the world for your future but please stop.
PARAGRAPH FIVE Why do you insist on making me hate you? In the end hating you makes everything I am doing a whole lot easier I don't really hate you yet. It would be easier if I did, but...there is something here. I am angry, but hate isn't here. so I guess I owe you two a big Thank you!
PARAGRAPH SIX You keep asking me when they are going to serve you papers. Again I am telling you THEY won't. I asked them not too! I will do that myself. Does that make me a coward too? Calling him a coward was not a good idea. Apologize honestly as soon as you can. This will go a long way with him - this stuck with him and is motivating him. Anyway the rough draft will be emailed to me an Monday. After I review it I will send it to you probably on Wednesday so you can take it to your attorney for review. By the way to save you some time I had already told my aunt about us and Mom told Grandma and Grandpa last night. Anyone else I can notify for you just let me know. You told me you were not coming home until Sunday night. Well unless you are in a big freakin hurry just wait until Monday morning. I will be gone by then and you can have the house to yourself! I gave you your space when you asked so give me mine! Feel free to share this with OW H as you seem to share everything else. He believes that the affair is being broken up by exposure and that the OW is cake-eating. He already knew that, even before whatever you and OWH did. He sees the public knowledge as very difficult to overcome. Your WH is a very proud man, and this publicity has hit him hard.
The note above is to let you know that he thinks that after what he has done there is absolutely no hope. I think he is filing paperwork because the threat of being a coward to do so has pushed him toward that, as well as being combined with the idea that he will take a very public crash soon leaves him NO OPTION TO GO HOME.
If you want to save this marriage, he must believe he has an open-hearted woman who will take him back, no matter what, and work on the problems that created the situation in the marriage that led to the conditions for an affair to occur. He has to believe you CAN AND WILL forgive him.
He has to believe that you want the marriage, and HIM, in spite of all of it.
Right now, he doesn't believe it. And he thinks he is going downhill in front of everyone.
Just so you know, when someone tells you your actions are "pathetic", it usually means they are trying to brush you aside as ineffective to them because whatever you did has been like a nuclear bomb to them and they have no ability to respond. So their response is to act as though you didn't hurt them at all - they call you "pathetic" in an attempt to paint you as weak and ineffective, when in fact you have struck them a mortal blow.
Ok, to start a line of dialogue I emailed this to him: [/color]Despite all the horrible things that are going on and have been said; I truly do not think you are a coward. I just wish that you could talk to me again. I hope you have a nice birthday tomorrow.
[color:#000000] Here was his repsonse: [color:#FF0000][/color]Thanks for the Bday wish! Have a good weekend!
and my next move should be???? Just leave it at that and wait until I see him next weekend? Email him something else? Since I am not there and have not spoken to OWH, I have no idea what is going on or if he is going to see her, I assume he is since it is his b-day.
Assume that he is going to see her. In the meantime, do some self-pampering. Hair, facial, manicure, pedicure, nice bubble bath...and maybe a flattering new outfit. Take care of YOU, and look your very best the next time you see him.
No relationship talk with him. If he brings up the divorce, "lightly" tell him, with a smile, that you don't want to discuss it.
Make it brief, and then you be the first to leave, and make sure you leave on a friendly note.
Show him that you are the woman he fell in love with and married.
Personally, I would advise you NOT to have off board contact with a member of the opposite sex...Mr. W and I share an email account and that has worked nicely if we wanted to communicate off board with others...Extraordinary precautions are the best policy, imo...
I agree with Mrs. W and KaylaAndy. NEVER communicate privately with another member of the opposite sex. One may not INTEND anything out of the way, but you never know how the other person will react, especially when you are both vulnerable and not getting your needs met. Men, in particular, are especially prone to becoming a "knight in shining armor". You should never be a "knight" to anyone except your own wife.
Nesre this is a HUGE NO-No in MB concepts. There should be boundaries in place to AVOID any one from the opposite sex being able to meet ANY EN's. This is how MOST affairs start.
I just did not want it out for Other eyes that may have bad intentions for her M.
I am not trying to defend what I did. I am trying to learn how to handle it if it would occur again.
What would be the right thing to do? I hope sit on my hands is not one of the answers. How do you get the communication to someone who may help of the opposite sex? nesre
and my next move should be???? Just leave it at that and wait until I see him next weekend? Email him something else? Since I am not there and have not spoken to OWH, I have no idea what is going on or if he is going to see her, I assume he is since it is his b-day.
The A continues so therefore he is in contact with OW every opportunity he gets beacuse he needs that. He needs to know there is something and he has not lost everything.
He needs to know from you that the 2 of you can move past this event. He does not need you to move past it,He needs to hear from you that its possible. Thats what Plan A makes possible, the communication from you to him that inspite of the A, its possible for you to continue to love him and restore the M. Do you think its possible that the 2 of you can R ?
I see nothing wrong with you contacting Mr. & Mrs. W., because they share an email account. You could also email another male MBer whose wife also posts on MB. One of them is TST, who is married to SexyMamaBear.
I AGREE WITH LC. That is what I would have done if I thought I needed to contact a member of the opposite sex in private. I don't however feel like I will have that feeling, but I may be wrong.
Nesre- I also just read YOUR thread and I noticed that this was a PLANNED exchange. Not only that, but I believe that you had emailed another MBer about it. If I am wrong I apologize. This just doesn't sit right with me.
Follow what LC has suggested.
Mymissy- sorry about the t/j. It's hard to contain oneself when you see things that may go against the MB way.
Totally my fault and being on this board for this long I know better. Yes Scotland I did contact another male member and with my own impulsiveness I went ahead anyway. It was not his fault in any way. He did not see where the thread was compromised.
Originally Posted by nesre
MyMissy Would you be willing to e=mail me. When I read back in your post I saw something you may want to consider. Let me know and I will post you my e-mail Nesre
I am sorry first to MyMissy. I know better. All you have to do is tell me you don't want me to post to you and I will respect your decision. I apologize to the whole board. I understand the concept of no private messages and will respect it. I now know what I can do in this situation.
#2330353 - 02/27/10 05:32 PM Re: Thread for mymissy [Re: nesre] Lady_Clueless Member
Registered: 02/25/01 Posts: 1497 I see nothing wrong with you contacting Mr. & Mrs. W., because they share an email account. You could also email another male MBer whose wife also posts on MB. One of them is TST, who is married to SexyMamaBear. _________________________ BW M 39.5 yrs to still-foggy WH. What/how I post=my biz. Report any perceived violations to the Mods.
Do you think its possible that the 2 of you can R ?
I am just not sure of anything right now. Deep in my heart I truly believe that saving this marriage is the best outcome. I am just not sure how to get past the hurt, and now the overwhelming distance.
No harm done. I understand the need to help. Right now I am just trying to help myself figure out this mess and unfortunately I am willing to grasp at any straw. So, definitely a lesson learned. Thanks for everyone's input.
Do you think its possible that the 2 of you can R ?
I am just not sure of anything right now. Deep in my heart I truly believe that saving this marriage is the best outcome. I am just not sure how to get past the hurt, and now the overwhelming distance.
Ok then
Step 1) Read and print and paste your own quote above some where you can see it daily. Stop preparing for D stop thinging about D as an option. STOP PACKING AND PLANNING ON MOVING OUT . Ignore what your alien WH wants for the moment and redirect all available energies towards saving the marriage.
Stpe 2) Accept that the hurt for wont go away for some time to come. Once you start working with that premise you will realise that you have to continue saving the marriage inspite of the pain. Thats why everyone keeps repeating that its not an easy road to walk. When you feel like throwing in the towel refer to step one.
Step 3) Take care of yourself and find things everyday that are non A related that will help you heal and fill you with peace. Read, jouranal, talk to a friend, listen to music,take kickboking, what ever will give you moments of happy breaks from having to live the A thoughts all day long. These little things will help give your soul the inner strenght you need to climb this recovery hill. YOU have EN's too and since your WH cant fill them right now you have to fill some of them from some where healthy cause you cant operate on empty.
I am not sure that I can completely stop packing and planning to move out, I think this may go to a Plan B, but for a couple of weeks I will attempt to plan A again. The best that I can. I would like to put a call out to FWH's and ask their opinion - what do I do and what do I say. He has a rough draft of D on the table and now attempts to spend one night every weekend with OW. We have not seen or spoken to each other for over a week. So, again what do I do and say to turn his head even if just for a moment?
Dr Harley himself posted (the following) on a thread started by Princessmeggy on Recovery forum ...
It applies to you.
XOXO
Quote
princessmeggy:
When life becomes chaotic, you can't use your instincts to guide you. One day they'll tell you one thing and the next day another. You end up exhausted running in one direction and then turning around and running back.
The best way to handle chaos (or even confusion) is to set your sites on principles that will guide you through the fog and into the clearing, and then follow those principles. The book you and your husband were reading, "Love Busters," is packed full of them. And the most important one of all is the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). Just about every problem you currently face was brought about by failures to follow that rule. Your husband's affair, the financial struggles you are experiencing, your unmet emotional needs, and on and on.
Keep reading Love Busters, especially chapters 8-13. Don't do anything unless you are both enthusiastic about it. Spend plenty of time thinking about what it would take to create that enthusiasm for the one who is reluctant.
The most important current violation of the POJA has been your husband's contact with his divorced friend. Separate if he doesn't end the contact immediately and for good. After having had an affair, what could he be thinking? He apparently has no idea what you've been through.
Your married life has been full of sacrifice. Don't do it anymore. One person's dreams can be another's nightmares. When that's the case in marriage, the dream should be abandoned. Whenever a spouse asks you to sacrifice, it's that person's Taker talking. He's not caring for you at that moment. He wants to gain at your expense. We all make mistakes, but whenever your husband makes that one, don't oblige. Then you'll have nothing new to feel resentful about.
I've read the comments that others have made to your inquiry, and agree with them. You have many on this Forum who care about you, and they are very troubled by the guilt you feel and the sacrifices you are tempted to make. You know the MB principles and agree with them. It's time to follow them.
I am not sure that I can completely stop packing and planning to move out, I think this may go to a Plan B, but for a couple of weeks I will attempt to plan A again. The best that I can.
Both Plan A and plan B mean you are taking D off the table from your side. You are either in or out. It�s like saying you are a little bit pregnant. You either are or you aren�t. Every box you pack or every time you COMMUNICATE that you are throwing in the towel RE-CONFIRMS his fear that even if he tries to fix it with you, you will be out the door.
IMHO EVERY WS is shocked by plan A because they cannot believe that after their A any sane person is willing to ACCEPT them especially the one they hurt. Consistency is very important here until your WH has an unwavering belief in the FACT that you are really willing to move past this. That is their biggest fear and every time you throw in the towel or let him know that you are wavering he justifies to himself that he is making the right choice by moving on.
Now with my BS hat on - Ofcouse you are wavering on wanting to walk this road. It bl**dy hard and I am pissed that as the victim you have to be the rescuer for him and you. Life sucks! But if that�s the price you have to pay to get your M back then is that price worth it for you? You cant see it right no but it is possible to have a good/better M after all this is over. All the survivors here are proof of that. I too was in your shoes once with no hope and just having to do all the work. So let me remind you that YES its possible to recover. Was it worth it for me? YES !!!! YES !!!! YES !!!! Vent all you want, waver all you want , doubt all you want. JUST NOT LET HIM SEE OR HEAR ANY OF THAT.
Quote
He has a rough draft of D on the table and now attempts to spend one night every weekend with OW.
Are you ready to re-commit to plan A or B in spite of your H's progress towards it ?
Quote
So, again what do I do and say to turn his head even if just for a moment?
In order for him to turn and look with hopefulness at your M first and foremost you have to believe it�s possible. You have to offer that glimmer of hope to him with either Plan A until you can stand it and then follow thru and continue that communication of hope with Plan B until he gets it thru this thick skull that YOU are COMMITTED to this Recovery and that it is possible to move past it in spite of what he has done and continues to do.
You sending him that email wishing him HB was a job well done.
What if? He does not love me anymore and really does love her?
Ok mymissy this one is for you Stop trying to figure out WHY and try and undertand A's. They are not worthy of analysing, and you will get lost in that maze.
You feel love when your EN's are being met. If you meet his EN's he WILL love you.
There is no magic spell. I once read a thread here that described that in deatil. I will look for it. Pep if you ( or any one else) know what post I am talking about can you bump it or cut and paste here. I think it might have been one of Mark's not sure. I'll look and be back with it.
Thanks, I just needed to hear someone else voice that, everyone is telling me to move on - that he is done and has moved on to her. I just cannot believe that....at least not yet...
I cant find the post I am looking for but if it will help you any and you have time to go thru it I found my original thread. I cant bear to read it cause I hear my self talking there and I want to myself when I hear me there.
There is INVALUABLE advise there from Schoolbus among others and I hope that my journey will help you see that I really was as doubtful and as insecure as you are today and the one needing the and the support. Today I am happy to be able to pass that along My journey
Here is the most difficult part, meeting those emotional needs when we are not speaking and have not seen each other in almost 2 weeks. I have read the material, just not sure how to apply at this point. I know what his EN are...just not sure how to get there?
His sister emailed this afternoon, here is what she said:
"Sorry I took so long getting to this. I got interrupted a few times. He called me this afternoon and we talked for a little bit. His heart and mind are not focusing on fixing things. The last few conversations I have had with him he seems to be more and more focused on moving on with his life. He seems very confident in his decision. I know I have said this before, but I think you need to keep your focus on moving on as well. At this point I don't think it matters who may or may not think He is making a mistake. I think the best thing you can do for yourself is to remove yourself from the situation. If He is headed for a big crash you don't want to be in the middle of it. You don't want to be seen as contributing to the cause of it. If he crashes and comes to you later for help picking up the pieces, you can decide at that time if you want to, but right now I'm afraid the more you try to push him and convince him he is making a mistake, the more you may actually be pushing him further and further away. I wish I could be more helpful to you. Like I said this morning, I just want Him and you, both to find peace."
This is what his family, my family, and all my friends are telling me. I feel hopeless.....
Very few people around understand wanting to save a M after A.
It seems to go against the grain. It may be they have never experienced it and until you have been on either side its hard to say what you would do.
Quote
I would like to put a call out to FWH's and ask their opinion - what do I do and what do I say.
Originally Posted by ark^^
I posted this to lostwithouther a short while back..
I liked this post... I still pray now more than ever he can become the lighthouse....
I hope some others find comfort from the storm...
Your spouse is in huge conflict the good news is and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...
the competition we believe that exist with the OP is a shallow empty reflection of Gods light in this world...
It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush
their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now....though the need to go back again again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong...they do not like what they are doing...
their actions towards you, the children, the OP, and themselves...keep them from engaging in any type of real interactions...with real depth and truth
all they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life... yet the filling is way too fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lays down regardless of whom is next to them....
they are the living cliche..of no matter where you go to hide...there YOU are...
he or she is lost to themselves...
and you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home....even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that...
You become the lighthouse..you fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary...
see just visualize yourself as a lighthouse...
Your offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get... you invite them towards it...let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way....
they are untrustable right now... but you know that...so they can't hurt you right now...they will spend great energy to convince others differently...but you know better...
you show the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions..... set clear boundaries that the OP is not part of your childrens lives.... without lovebusting... offer alternatives that let them see the children...but be clear that the OP is to have no access to them... you fill the childrens lives with stability....they deserve it and need it more than anything else....
Do not discuss and or powerstruggle with them on irrational movements...seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly....
your spouse is very lonely and sad right now..but that is OK...no one can stay very long in that chaos...it is wearisome to the soul... and remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos...and eventually they will see that you are the only one...who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most...
be the lighthouse.... OK that's really out there I know....
strength to you all.. ARK
Wannamoveforward quote IMHO EVERY WS is shocked by plan A because they cannot believe that after their A any sane person is willing to ACCEPT them especially the one they hurt.
As a FWW I could not believe my W wanted to try again. I was about 3 days away from moving in with OW.
From her it was a phone call after about 3 months of total no contact asking if we could try again.
That simple phone call was enough for me to dump OW and move into the apt alone for 3 months while we (W & I)started conversation and negotiation.
I was not happy and extremely confused..with myself..PERIOD
This very slowly started the road back to 10 years of a good M. My DD16 was born during that time after five years of being back together.
I just wanted to share my experience with you.
I know its different for each situation and I don't know that there is a stock answer.
Keeping a LIGHtHOUSE out there for him may be all you can do. My situation happened back in 1987 so no MB's then.
Mymissy- I know exactly what you are feeling. I was feeling that too. It's funny, I just realized that I don't feel quite like that anymore. My feeling was this, "If only someone could say to me, "It will be x number of months and then your WH will return to your M", then I would be able to do this." I thought that if I KNEW the outcome, then it would be easier.
I have changed my thinking. Now it is, "I have a PLAN. No matter what happens, I WILL BE OKAY. I will continue on with my PLAN no matter what. I WILL BE OKAY."
There are still moments when I think, "Why do I keep doing this? Wouldn't it be easier to just give up?" Then I remember that I BELIEVE in MB. I have HOPE and I have FAITH. When I am thinking logically, I have chosen a certain path. I need to complete my journey. It is SO worth it. I have learned a lot about myself. I have learned a lot about others. I have met some MARVELOUS people. I have changed for the better. I LOVE ME.
We all have hard days. SOme days are worse than others. Do what you need to to get through them. Stay on your course. You will be GREAT.
I came home tonight, he is already in bed asleep, in a different part of the house. He left me a note since he is getting ready to go back out of town for a couple of days, some everyday things and a comment - "I know you probably don't want to talk to me, but the dissolution papers are ready. They must be sent certified mail so I cannot give them to you personally". I am still reeling from the discovery of the A 8 weeks ago, I am still waiting for him to say to me, I am unhappy and want out of this marriage. I have to get an email from his sister saying that after she talked with him today it is obvious that he is done with our marriage and moving forward, I need to do the same for my own best interest. I feel as though I have been in the twilight zone for 8 weeks. When has anyone asked me how I feel or what I want, not just roll over and play dead. I want to leave some sort of note back to him, but do not know what to say, any suggestions
Interesting, I will maybe have to ask my lawyer what happens if I don't go to post office and pick up. Thanks for the other tip, my comments were definitely more sarcastic than that and would have been a LB.
Is there a Plan B/D, what are the statistics of those who manage to pull it all back together after the separation and then a divorce? just curious????????
I don't know the statisics. Maybe another member does.
It sounds like your exhausted from all this. I know I was to b-4 seperation. WW was there-not there-there again. 3X's asked to leave. PLB'd when she did leave -broke that. DD and I moved to security apt to get away from her alcoholism and A. WW is also an active alcoholic who continually relapses.
Way different than your situation but DD and I talked a lot and we both were exhausted.
In previous posts Pepperband wrote about Disolution in your thread. You may want to go back and read those portions.
Also JMO I get the feeling you dont want to make waves and go against the grain.
LC on a post above suggested a simple note saying have a nice week or something to that affect.
Wanna really confuse WW more? (PLA) Send a snack or lunch with him...Get up earlier than him and look good. Send him off for the week on a good note...
This may set the stage for a good PLB if this is the direction you choose to go. Either way its not wasted.
Just checking in. I know the feeling of wanting our own script and how this will play out. It would make it so much easier for the BS.
It is difficult road but I know that God has his plan for me and I had to turn it over to Him to restore my sanity. I work on myself (not always successfully) but try to keep my confidence (which took forever to come back), create a happy home for DD and have faith in myself.
Even if you do not feel like it. Try and be happy and show that side to WS. What is a better picture in his mind when he leaves; you crying sobbing and begging or a nice little message saying have a safe trip, a snack like someone suggested and no mention of D papers.
Is there a Plan B/D, what are the statistics of those who manage to pull it all back together after the separation and then a divorce? just curious????????
Unfortunately there are no real statistics regarding that available, just plenty stating that most affairs (97%) will end within 2 years and of the 3% left that go on to marriage, 75% will end within 6 years, making a whole 1.5% a success. No matter how special WS's think their relationships are, they're just not that lucky:)
I do know of M's on MB that have recovered after long term separation and yes, even divorce. My DH's A last about 4.5 months and we are about 18 months into recovery.
Until your WH is actually out of the house and sight Plan A in every way. Always be the better person, expect nothing from them, show your love, accept whatever good and kindness the give, put on a pretty, happy face and don't talk about the marriage or divorce. If he brings it up just say "I don't do divorce honey, want a coffee?"
I agree with the others. WH is not the boss of you, and you do not need to cooperate with his request to sign papers. Why make it easy for him to hurt you?
And 8 weeks post d-day is way too soon to be making major decisions. Believe me, I was a mess at d-day, too -- crying all the time, sleepless, not hungry, obsessive, moody, emotional, irrational -- pretty much CRAZY.
So delay, delay, delay to allow your mental health to return. Start by ignoring the people who say "move on." YOU are the only one whose opinion matters right now. You have to live with the decisions you make. You are the boss of you!
Start by ignoring the people who say "move on." YOU are the only one whose opinion matters right now. You have to live with the decisions you make. You are the boss of you!
I find that when people tell me to move on it is because they want the hurt to stop for me and think that will "fix it". Most of them say it out of kindness or ignorance not realizing that this is the last thing we want to hear.
I agree with the others. WH is not the boss of you, and you do not need to cooperate with his request to sign papers. Why make it easy for him to hurt you?
And 8 weeks post d-day is way too soon to be making major decisions. Believe me, I was a mess at d-day, too -- crying all the time, sleepless, not hungry, obsessive, moody, emotional, irrational -- pretty much CRAZY.
So delay, delay, delay to allow your mental health to return. Start by ignoring the people who say "move on." YOU are the only one whose opinion matters right now. You have to live with the decisions you make. You are the boss of you!
I am having a hard time with Plan A'ing. I am impressed with myself just not having an AO, or emotional breakdown. I have been cordial but distant. I couldn't bring myself to make him dinner, I did pick up some groceries finally today after 2 weeks. I have also called on an apartment that will allow my smallest dog and that I think I could tolerate. I am having a hard time with living here. All I want to do is ask? Is this really what you want to do so quickly? But I am afraid of the answer and all of you have said not to discuss the A or D right now. Technically I have not even gotten "paperwork", so I am not sure how much of a price tag he is putting on our marriage. I still cannot believe that he is acting this way - I and everyone else, including his XW are still drop-jawed. This is not the man I married, but what does that say about me. What part did I play in this.... It is all so overwhelming and all consuming. I am exhausted, mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. So, for now I am sitting tight, but quietly planning for Plan B/D.
Oh and what makes all of this so horrible is that - he was supposed to be out of town until Thurs. His trip was canceled and now he is home for the week..... Aahhhhh....I thought I would have the week to think and soul search, but now I have to be in this wonderful tension filled environment.
A 180 of sorts. I bet that would be extremely unexpected from you.
He's not keeping you informed of his life-And hes not the BOSS of you especially under the circumstances.
Instead of sitting there and being there just go. Don't say a word to anyone except your most trusted confidants. I probably wouldnt even tell them. I bet this would be totally out of character for you.
Don't answer your cell (if u have one)
Just jump in the car-Point a direction and just go for a day or two.
There are plenty of cheap places to stay with pools/sauna's/ hot tubs or if you just feel like it TV.
Can be as fancy or as cheap as you want it to be.
Don't say a word when you get back. Act as if you just went for a quick trip to the grocery store or shopping. No big deal no info to him.
Just a thought-Sounds like you were really looking forward to a break.
Not quite sure this is MB's approved or not. Take charge of your own life and go after the break you need.
180 IS NOT MB. If you want to go a 180 route that is something different altogether. If you want to do this the MB way than you need to continue Plan A with a date in mind for your Plan B. I found it a bit easier to deal with Plan A when I knew that there was going to be an end date.
Hang in there Mymissy. Plan A is HARD. Plan B is harder and R is harder still(so I have been told but I still hope to get there). In your non emotional moments, what are you thinking? That was how I keep on course. I remembered that what I wanted was a chance to save my M. If it doesn't get saved, MB concepts and Plans with still let me recover myself. That is important to me.
I didn't say that I disagreed with her taking a bit of a break. It was the term 180. That gets thrown out a lot on these boards and it is not MB AT ALL. It makes me angry when someone tells someone, who is obviously hurt and confused, to do something that is against MB when that is what they are here to find out about.
I used to take short breaks while I was in Plan A so I could cry, scream and just get myself psyched back up for the next few minutes with WH. It came to a point in the last few days of my Plan A, that I actually had the hours figured out. I had a countdown clock in my head.
It is not that Mymissy has to do things to be Plan Doormat, I am NOT encouraging that at all. In Plan A, the BS is trying to make themselves into the safe place, the better choice. It is HARD. It takes a LOT of strength. It also harms one so much that DrH says that it shouldn't be done for a prolonged period of time.
Mymissy- DO some things for yourself. If you are up to it, go for a drive and get some space. Vent here. Write in a journal. Find ways for you to get a release. Find new things for you to focus on. I know it is hard. I am sure other people can come up with things you can do.
What have you always wanted to try and haven't? What did you used to do and stopped? Nothing too bad. Put some things out there.
I am going to start running again when the weather gets nicer(hard to run over snowbanks as high as my thighs). I am even thinking about trying out Mountain biking as well. Snowmobiles sound like fun too. I am thinking about getting my motorcycle license, I have always wanted to ride. Even thought about going to school to learn french. Someone suggested I learn sign language and become an interpreter. I am opening my horizons. You should think about what you want from life. These things will give you self esteem and confidence.
Well, at this point things continue to spiral down and get uglier and worse. I have decided to move out and will be moving at the end of the month. I am done living in the chaos. He continues to be exceptionally cruel, I have now gotten the speech - not sure if I ever loved you (BTW, he turned his marriage proposal into an 8 week game with a video at the end and him standing behind me with a diamond - hmmmm......never loved me?) He continues to move forward with his plans to be with OW, although OWH thinks that the foundations in the A are starting to crack. He is also drinking quite a bit in the evenings and has never done this. I am getting out of the way of his self destruction. I am preserving my own sanity. Again, it is heartbreaking to watch this happen...and I was one of those people who thought "my husband would never have an A". This feels like it was scripted right out of the textbooks and although I have followed everyone's advice, he is continuing down this path of destruction.
I agree with the others. WH is not the boss of you, and you do not need to cooperate with his request to sign papers. Why make it easy for him to hurt you? And 8 weeks post d-day is way too soon to be making major decisions. Believe me, I was a mess at d-day, too -- crying all the time, sleepless, not hungry, obsessive, moody, emotional, irrational -- pretty much CRAZY. So delay, delay, delay to allow your mental health to return. Start by ignoring the people who say "move on." YOU are the only one whose opinion matters right now. You have to live with the decisions you make. You are the boss of you!
D I T T O
Have you "treated" yourself in any way this week so far?
He continues to be exceptionally cruel, I have now gotten the speech - not sure if I ever loved you (BTW, he turned his marriage proposal into an 8 week game with a video at the end and him standing behind me with a diamond - hmmmm......never loved me?)
Your WH's fob babble is procceeding on script. I am glad that you can see he's rewriting history and that he is so lost in his own fog that he cant see his head from tail.
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I am getting out of the way of his self destruction. I am preserving my own sanity.
Welcome to plan B .
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I have decided to move out and will be moving at the end of the month. I am done living in the chaos
If you do decide to move out stay dark do not give in at the first sign of remorse. Make sure there are no before you attempt to give into his perhaps feeble attempts at R when the fog starts to lift from his brain. I know you think that day wont come but if and when it comes because you still care for him so much it is difficult to not fall into that trap. While you are away in plan B type up a list of what is unacceptable to you going forward in your M recovery. I know you are thiking you will not need that list BUT just incase you do its harder to make that list when feel weak with emotions. If you dont end up needing it then you know you have done everything you possiblly can to help move forward with this M. M takes 2 people to show up and your WH is too lost at the moment to show up for anything.
Lost does not even begin to describe it. OWH and I found OW dream house ($$$$) and WH is promising her that he wants to be in it by spring??????? I just got dissolution paperwork (not signing that) and OW/OWH have not even started to fill out paperwork. She is cake eating and won't tell her H that she definitely wants out. Not sure how OW and WH think that they can be in this big giant uber expensive home in a few months/now....BIG FOG. But I think they are getting impatient, somehow the fantasy must continue. What happens when/if the fog lifts - do the WW's realize the utter devastation they have caused and how ridiculous their promises to each other are?
What happens when/if the fog lifts - do the WW's realize the utter devastation they have caused and how ridiculous their promises to each other are?
When the fog lifts ... ahhh you will see your OLD DH again Behaving like he used to long before the A. Only now he has to live with how STU**D ( I hate that word) he acted during the A. He will need you to console him when he kicks his own butt. He will need you to supress the smile and sense of satisfaction that you will get when you see he gets what you have been trying to tell him all along. He will realise how close he came to loosing and self desctucting. He will THANK YOU for being the sane strong one thru all this.
But more on all of that later. For Now Start working on typing a plan B letter.
Type one up and post here and get feedback on it befor eyou hand it to you FOGGY WH.
Also you rarely respond to any inquiries about WHAT ARE YOU DOING THAT GOOD FOR YOU ??? If its because you are not doing anything fun then make a plan for that NOW.
If you are, then tell us so we know how much fuel is going in your tank.
For myself, I spent the last 2 weekends at my mother's - in my hometown. I have a group of friends (since 1st grade) there, who have really been a support system for me. We all spent time together both weekends having fun. I have gotten a massage last week. Other than that I have been working. To be honest, there isn't much fuel left in my tank. Which is why I need to remove myself from the chaos. I meet with my lawyer today regarding dissolution paperwork, I plan to have him drag it out over time - but for now I am going along with ending the marriage. OWH and I think that they are starting to crack. But I am unsure even if he comes out of the fog that there can be a repair. There has been so much hurt and betrayal that I am not sure I can get past it at this point. Again this is why I need to remove myself from the situation to be able to come to a clear understanding of what I want now. I am very confused????
For myself, I spent the last 2 weekends at my mother's - in my hometown. I have a group of friends (since 1st grade) there, who have really been a support system for me. We all spent time together both weekends having fun. I have gotten a massage last week.
all good stuff.
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To be honest, there isn't much fuel left in my tank. Which is why I need to remove myself from the chaos.
Where is the plan B letter ?
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I am very confused????
IMHO you are not confused . You are angry and frustrated and not enthused at the course that your WH foogginess and the A has put you on.
You want a M and R and yet all the steps you are required to take are taking you seemingly farther away from what you want. Part of you thinks that R is un-attainable to why fight the inevitable.
Dont worry about how much water is under the bridge and whether or not you can come back from. The reason it SEEMS impossible to you right now is because he is not meeting your EN's.
This is where MB can step in and tell you that R is possible. Others have done it myself included and it can work for you too. Our A did not hurt any less nor was our M more special that yours that survived inspite of the A. It takes work and following of the plan for it to happen. Kinda like dieting, reading all about it and knowing all about it does not make the weight come off. You ACTUALLY have to DO the stuff they talk about that works I know alot about that cause I was really hoping that having read the book about healthy eating and loose the belly fat it would be gone but it isnt. I guess I better take my belly fat to the gym for that pilates class.
OW and WH breaking up by itself will not fix your M. It will be the starting point for your R. Once he shows up to this recovery party then you can decide how much he is willing to FIX and if what he is offering is what you want.
When you get to that point where he starts pouring into your tank you will see things differently and I'll be happy to point you to this post and say I TOLD YOU SO
I can only hope for that path. Right now I need to get away from him, he is out of town next week and then only 2 1/2 weeks until I can move out. I have been to the attorney and he will be looking out for my best interest. I have started that process since the dissolution papers came. However will drag it out for a awhile.
I am not actually sure how much of the silent, cold shoulder, I don't exist treatment I can stand. Every time he walks by me with out saying anything (which is all the time now) it is a knife in my heart. He cannot come up with valid reasons or excuses for anything including the downfall of our marriage. He reason for not speaking is that it is considered harassment if we speak about such things. My lawyer said - not hardly. The whole thing is awful.........I feel like such a whiner and I am MAD!
[quote=wannamoveforward] [quote] Where is the plan B letter ?
WH, I have always admired your integrity, caring, and reliability. I thank you for all the times you have stood by me in times of bad health, in difficult times with the kids, and in other difficulties in our lives. Your strength has always inspired me; I wish you believed in yourself. You mean everything in this world to me and I am not as strong as you think I am and I am afraid and lost. I have also always believed in you, trusted you and loved you more than I could share with you. I am so sorry for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with OWH wife possible. I pursued my own wants and interests without truly understanding how I was not keeping up my responsibility of being your wife and meeting your most important needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most; and now we are both suffering for my mistakes. Our old marriage was not a place I nurtured very well in the last few years, and I see that now. Since you have continued with your affair with OWH wife; for now I need to avoid seeing you or talking to you. You may contact me through email or your mother and sister. I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must understand the suffering that I have endured because of your continued relationship with her and the choices that you have made that have affected us both. I simply cannot be around you any longer knowing that you are continuing to contact her and be with her. I still love you, but I cannot continue to see you or live with you under these circumstances. I thought fate brought us together by one line in print. Then we forgot to nurture each other. But I still believe that this relationship can be salvaged. I loved you when I married you; I love you to this day. But I simply cannot be around you while you continue to act in this manner. Love Mymissy
Dear Missy My husband has moved out after a second affair. I only found out about the first when I found out about the second. After I found out about the second, he moved out, and then came back, cheated again, decided to stay and then moved out again, saying he needed "a break". A couple of months later, told me it was over because he is not sexually attracted to me anymore??? Insists OW is not in the picture. I didn't know of this site, I wish I had, I did practically EVERYTHING wrong. I sort of did Plan A but wasn't able to maintain it.
He has also wanted to "discuss arrangements" almost immediately, which was SO painful.
I only say all this, and I don't know if it brings you any comfort, but I completely understand your emotions, they so totally echo mine, it is a bit spooky!!! But then, as others explain, those feelings are totally normal.
I think you are handling it really well and wish you all the best.
I don't want to hijack your thread but I also wanted to say I think the support and advice found on this site is just wonderful and restores one's faith in people. The last couple of posts by wannamoveforward have been of great help to me.
Whatever happens, we can only go onward and upwards!!:-)
Mymissy- the silent treatment and treating you like you don't exist must KILL you inside. Aren't you glad that you know you have Plan B in your pocket? That will be the end to this chapter, on to the next chapter of your M. Will it be R? Maybe not M recovery but definitely PERSONAL R. Hang in there. You're doing GREAT.
WH, I have always admired your integrity, caring, and reliability. I thank you forremember fondly all the times you have stood by me in times of bad health, in difficult times with the kids, and in other difficulties in our lives. Your strength has always inspired me; I wish you believed in yourself. You mean everything in this world to me and I am not as strong as you think I am and I am afraid and lost. I have also always believed in you, trusted you and loved you more than I could share with you. I am so sorry for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with OWH wife possible. I pursued my own wants and interests without truly understanding how I was not keeping up my responsibility of being your wife and meeting your most important needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most; and now we are both suffering for my mistakes. Our old marriage was not a place I nurtured very well in the last few years, and I see that now. Since you have continued continue with your affair with OWH wife; (for using wife instead of name )for now I need to avoid seeing you or talking to you. You may contact me through email or your mother and sister. I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must understand the suffering that I have endured because of your continued relationship with her and the choices that you have made that have affected us both. I simply cannot be around you any longer knowing that you are continuing to contact her and be with her. I still love you, but I cannot continue to see you or live with you under these circumstances. I thought fate brought us together by one line in print. Then we forgot to nurture each other.But I still believe that this relationship can be salvaged. I loved you when I married you; I love you to this day. But I simply cannot be around you while you continue to act in this manner. Love Mymissy
Here is my feeble attempt at feedabck for your letter. Elimiate all text that comes acrros as week or needy. Hopefully some vets will come in with more help with the letter. I am very proud of you for taking the step to write the letter cause it means you are opening yourself up to the possibility of a Future.
What happens when/if the fog lifts - do the WW's realize the utter devastation they have caused and how ridiculous their promises to each other are?
{{{{{{Missy}}}}}},
YEP!!!!..... Not only ridiculous but shameful, embarrassing, childish, and incrediably repugnant. It will be the most regretful thing he'll ever have done. And the pain will be more than he can bear. My H did the same thing with the house, plus proposed AND planned children with her ( even though her tubes were tied!!!!.... ).
He is highly disgusted with himself. It breaks my heart.......
And one day, if you decide to try to reconcile, you'll see this for yourself.
In the mean time, treat yourself well. You absolutely deserve it.
I am truly sorry for your pain.......pain no one should have to suffer....
Dear Missy My husband has moved out after a second affair. I only found out about the first when I found out about the second. After I found out about the second, he moved out, and then came back, cheated again, decided to stay and then moved out again, saying he needed "a break". A couple of months later, told me it was over because he is not sexually attracted to me anymore??? Insists OW is not in the picture. I didn't know of this site, I wish I had, I did practically EVERYTHING wrong. I sort of did Plan A but wasn't able to maintain it.
He has also wanted to "discuss arrangements" almost immediately, which was SO painful.
I only say all this, and I don't know if it brings you any comfort, but I completely understand your emotions, they so totally echo mine, it is a bit spooky!!! But then, as others explain, those feelings are totally normal.
I think you are handling it really well and wish you all the best.
I don't want to hijack your thread but I also wanted to say I think the support and advice found on this site is just wonderful and restores one's faith in people. The last couple of posts by wannamoveforward have been of great help to me.
Whatever happens, we can only go onward and upwards!!:-)
Schmoops Sorry you are having to go thru this cr*p. Welcome to MB. I am glad this it helping you get tru this horrible ordeal you are going thru. 2 D days at once thats a big blow to be able to stand up from. Is it the same OW each time or are there 3 I was not sure from your post. If you need specific help about your stich or just want to vent I'd recomend starting a new thread so you have a way to let out all your feelings and work thru them. Seeing what BS's are going thru really helped me realise that I was sane and normal (I guess as normal as can be). You have come to the right place and I hope that reading and posting on this forum gives you the tools and support you need to move forward.
I am by no means a vet, but isn't there a way to limit POSOW in the letter a bit more. NEAK WHERE ARE YOU? We need some authorness(yes I know that isn't a word-think of it as a Scotty-ism).
The Plan B letter should be a "love" letter to WH and let him know there is a way home. Could you say something about the adultery instead of saying "her". Sorry I am REALLY tired(2 weeks overdue for my B12 shot, makes me a little loopy) and I can't come up with this on my own. Thanx
Thanks to everyone for help and support. MB has been a type of refuge for me. I hope one day I can see past my own pain and hurt to reach out to others as many of you have reached out to me. Right now I seem to be able to only focus on myself; and continue to be unable to stop crying. He has made me feel as though I am yesterday's garbage and is simply throwing it out.
Right now I seem to be able to only focus on myself; and continue to be unable to stop crying. He has made me feel as though I am yesterday's garbage and is simply throwing it out.
((((mymissy))))
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent - Eleanor Roosevelt
Dont' let him make you feel like trash. You are not garbage. If he is dumb enough to let you go then HE does not deserve you and all you have to offer.
Dont feel bad for focuing on your self. You SHOULD be doing that right now. What you are dealing with and trying to breathe thru is the worst trauma that is possible. Many have compared the pain of it to being raped or abused and it is devastating. So take all the support and comfort you need, focus on being able to stand up and not being permanently knocked out by his punch. Hope your day gets better ahead.
I continue taking the AD, OWH and I have been communicating regularly again. The more the both of learn the more we are both realizing how much the two adulterers are lying to each of their spouses, but also to each other. What a ridiculous pipe dream they are fantasizing about. Unfortunately they have devastated two families. Their "unconditional love for each other is based in emails, texts, phone calls, and a few one-night weekends together. Not reality. Both myself and OWH feel like we are going insane and who are these lying, deceptive, manipulative people to whom we are currently married. I am starting to lean in the direction of plan B for personal recovery only. He is an evil B@st@rd!!!!!!!
Plan B will really help. I would be A LOT more careful with your communications with OWH. You don't want to have a sitch between the 2 of you to deal with as well. It's okay to get info, but once you are in Plan B, you need to be DARK and that means not knowing about anything.
Plan B for you sake or the sake of the M is a great plan at this point. Talking to OWH's to gather info to help end the A is a great plan. Leaning on each other for support could be a slippery slope. I know you are hurting and having some one who gets what you are going thru feels so good and its hard to give up any souce of support BUT... just be careful of where it can lead you.
I really am sorry that your WH continues to hurt and torment you and once you go dark with him I am hoping that you will be able to stop some of that bleeding. Hang in there, keep venting.
Thank you all so much, the venting helps tremendously. Thanks for the cncern but I don't think that I would slide down the slippery slope with OWH; to young and has 3 small children. Been there, done that - look where it has gotten me. Right now just gathering info for him to use as ammo in regards to against her and be able to protect his children. The info gathered has just been very hurtful, especially to me. The other horrible part of this, kids are home for break and WH is going to spend weekend with her and is out of town next week for business. DSD20 is very upset that her father knew they would be home and is telling her "I have other plans". She knows what he is doing and that he is lying to her. I can't believe that all the years we spent building a great relationship with the kids (WH exW very poisonous)and now he is going to destroy it. At least they know that I am here for them and I can hold my head high knowing that I have been able to maintain my morals, integrity, and I tried to save marriage. Now my only thoughts are of getting to a place of peace. And taking him for everything I possibly can, so that POSOW can't have it. I am also thanking God that I am educated and have a great job. And the betrayal diet has been great, eating very healthy and working out almost daily and I have lost all of my cancer weight. I have decided that the best revenge possible is to continue on with a happy, full life; while he will probably implode. the crying was little less today, I think the AD only take the edge off so that there are not extreme highs and lows, not enough to stop the tears - most of all I miss my best friend. I am still reeling by how fast this has all happened and progressed to this level. And how sad that this continues to happen obviously everywhere, not any one case much different from the next. So much pain that could have so easily been remedied before causing this kind of devastaion. Well those are my thoughts for tonight, I am planning my move for in 26 days, I cannot wait to be alone in a peaceful environment.
Hugs to you. It is a difficult time and you will have the highs and lows. It has been 1.5 years for me and some days it feels like a week.
Breathe, pray, continue to work on yourself. My XWH is an alien now. Even physically he does not look the same. This A takes over them spiritually, mentally and it changes them.
Until the A implodes you will not see your H. Only then will he start to come the fog.
I have not yet revised the Plan B letter that WMF has helped me edit yet. But it is in the works. I am not sure about giving the current piece of sh*t I am married to a love letter, feels like a slap in the face to me..........
The other horrible part of this, kids are home for break and WH is going to spend weekend with her and is out of town next week for business. DSD20 is very upset that her father knew they would be home and is telling her "I have other plans". She knows what he is doing and that he is lying to her
We addicts (unless in true recovery)--> lie-TAKE IT FROM ONE IN RECOVERY BOTH FROM ALCOHOL AND A's. Doesn't matter to who we lie (unless in true recovery)as long as we are get our fix.
Just wanted to point you to Ridisics thread-Need a spine -page 6.
Pep posted a very good generic PLB letter (fill in the blank style)you might want to check out.
The whole thread is very worth while to read if you have the time. Maybe you are already folowing it.
I'm not much of an authorness(Scotlandism term) but I would like to say I read the draft.
The only comment I have is I wondered with the first part if there was something special your H did for you in the M? Something that was such a gift to you personally that would pull some heart strings.
In my PLB letter I included my W giving me two happy healthy babies-Our time together- me and her by the lake-just enjoying each other by the fire listening to the loons.
Is there some type of special memory that you could include THAT WAS from your HUSBAND> during the good times????? I know its hard right now to think like that when all this is going on but it is really helpful to the cause if you can include something like that.
The other horrible part of this, kids are home for break and WH is going to spend weekend with her and is out of town next week for business. DSD20 is very upset that her father knew they would be home and is telling her "I have other plans". She knows what he is doing and that he is lying to her. I can't believe that all the years we spent building a great relationship with the kids (WH exW very poisonous)and now he is going to destroy it. At least they know that I am here for them and I can hold my head high knowing that I have been able to maintain my morals, integrity, and I tried to save marriage.
Dont worry about His relationship with his kids. Let him figure that out. You dont need to Protect him from destroying it. Perhaps when it dawn on him that he loosing their love he might start paying attention to how his actions are hurting others and in turn HIM.
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I have decided that the best revenge possible is to continue on with a happy, full life; while he will probably implode. the crying was little less today, I think the AD only take the edge off so that there are not extreme highs and lows, not enough to stop the tears - most of all I miss my best friend
I love that you have made a decision because that means you are no longer going to allow yourself to be a victim of some one elses choices. Stay with the AD's in the short run they were a lifesaver for me.
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Well those are my thoughts for tonight, I am planning my move for in 26 days, I cannot wait to be alone in a peaceful environment.
If the idea of plan B being a love letter bothers you then make a small simple version of it that communicates the goal for letter.
1) You are removing yourself from the path of his destructive tornado so that he can no longer continue to hurt you. 2) If and when he decides to end his affair, he can come knocking and you are willing to listen to what he has to offer.
Its NOT a commitment that you love him no matter what. Its not a commitment that you will let him in when he knocks. It simply leaves the door open for future conversation when he is no longer possesed by the Alien thats in his mind/body right now.
Writing the Plan B letter does not mean that you are closing the door on D, IMO it simply gives the Wayward Alien a small glimmer if hope that once they are over their Crazy waywardness there MIGHT still be a chance to undo what they have done.
Ok, I can live with doing a Plan B letter like that. Here is my revised version.
WH, I have always admired your integrity, caring, and reliability. Your strength has always inspired me. I will remember kindly all the times you have stood by me in bad health, in difficult times with the kids, and in other difficulties in our lives. I will also fondly remember all the fun times in PIB, Vegas, and the Smoky Mountains, the long walks on the beaches in Florida and the Bahamas. But I will mostly remember good times with kids. DSD20 and I have forged a friendship and bond that will last a lifetime. I have also always believed in you, trusted you and loved you. I am sorry for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with OWH's wife possible. Since you continue your affair with his wife; I need to avoid seeing you or talking to you. You may contact me through your mother, sister, or my brother. I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must understand the suffering that I have endured because of your continued contact with her and the choices that you have made that have affected us both and our family. I simply cannot be around you any longer knowing that you continue to see her. I cannot live with you under these circumstances. I will always believe in second chances; and I still believe that this relationship can be salvaged. I loved you when I married you; and deep in my heart I love you still. Please remember that there is always a path back home. But I simply cannot be around you while you continue to behave in this manner. Mymissy
Ok, I can live with doing a Plan B letter like that. Here is my revised version.
WH, I have always admired your integrity, caring, and reliability. Your strength has always inspired me. I will remember kindly all the times you have stood by me in bad health, in difficult times with the kids, and in other difficulties in our lives. I will also fondly remember all the fun times in PIB, Vegas, and the Smoky Mountains, the long walks on the beaches in Florida and the Bahamas. But I will mostly remember good times with kids. DSD20 and I have forged a friendship and bond that will last a lifetime. I have also always believed in you, trusted you and loved you. I am sorry for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with OWH's wife possible. Since you continue your affair with his wife; I need to avoid seeing you or talking to you. You may contact me through your mother, sister, or my brother. I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must understand the suffering that I have endured because of your continued contact with her and the choices that you have made that have affected us both and our family. I simply cannot be around you any longer knowing that you continue to see her. I cannot live with you under these circumstances. I will always believe in second chances; and I still believe that this relationship can be salvaged. I loved you when I married you; and deep in my heart I love you still. Please remember that there is always may be a path back home. But I simply cannot be around you while you to behave in this manner.continue the A Mymissy
I like the memories of when he was your "Husband"
Im no vet but thought I'd put my 2 cents worth in. The letter needs to be strong. Others may be able better to beef it up a little more.
WH, I have always admired your integrity, caring, and reliability. Your strength has always inspired me. I will remember kindly all the times you have stood by me in bad health, in difficult times with the kids, and in other difficulties in our lives. I will also fondly remember all the fun times in PIB, Vegas, and the Smoky Mountains, the long walks on the beaches in Florida and the Bahamas. But I will mostly remember good times with kids. DSD20 and I have forged a friendship and bond that will last a lifetime. I have also always believed in you, trusted you and loved you. I am sorry for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with OWH's wife possible. Since you continue your affair with his (use OWH"S name here right ?) wife I need to avoid seeing you or talking to you. You may contact me through your mother, sister, or my brother. I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must understand the suffering that I have endured because of your continued contact with her and the choices that you have made that have affected us both and our family. I simply cannot be around you any longer knowing that you continue to see her. I cannot live with you under these circumstances. I will always believe in second chances; and I still believe that this relationship can be salvaged. I loved you when I married you; and deep in my heart I love you still. Please remember that there is always a path back home. But I simply cannot be around you while you continue to behave in this manner. Mymissy
Everything but the apology in red looks good to me. I know what you are trying to do here and yet the Sorry makes it seem like it might allow him to justify in his head that you are acknowleding that him having an A is sort of your fault. If you had been a better wife then he would not have had the need for an A, sort of excuse which is unacceptable.
I think its too soon to explain the context of your aplogy to an Alien so to be safer I'd leave it out. I am not sure how best to word it he would get what you are trying to say without using it against you.
[apologizing words] I have made many mistakes in the past and cannot change those mistakes or take them back. Be honest but don't knock yourself down limit the number to the top 3
[corrective steps] What I have been able to do is recognize those errors in judgment and action or inaction; and I have learned from them so much. The depth of my understanding, of those failings, has taken me to honestly and with great effort to take steps that will ensure that they will not happen again. <list the ENs that you can fulfill and how you will do this- again be honest and limit the number to the top 3 or 4> <If you know you can honestly apply the POJA& say you can and how you will do it>
Would this work for what you put in red? A recognition we are not perfect partners is required. How to change our part also gives a subtle hope of how we are willing to also change is a good idea Just suggesting
I was just reading up on Plan B letters here and this post sort of struck me. I hope the OP does not mind me sharing .
Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
Plan B means she goes and you stay DARK. She doesn't come back until she meets every condition. Without conditions of her own.
In my Plan B letter, I told WW to email me at a specific address with a specific subject line (otherwise I would just delete anything she sent to me). At that point, we would meet somewhere neutral and discuss the possibility of her return.
She's not coming back into my house just because she's crashed, OM has dumped her, or for any other reason than [i]she's ready and willing to work on recovering the M.[/i]
Those are my boundaries.
I suggest you set your own.
Just made me think that perhaps you need to put something in there along those lines regarding the parts in red. Plan B means going completely DARK so that he cant throw crumbs your way and hope you will take the nibble. Or worse continue to interrpupt your healing with emails and hatred that continues to withdraw his love from your Love Bank given that its at dangeroulsy low levels any way. Also have you talked to him mom/sister so they understand their role in this plan B. They are not to forward you ANYTHING from him other than facts and papers and other necessary info.
The more I learn about the affair, what they are saying to each other, and how they talk about me (I am the reason for all the bad things that are happening???); I become more discouraged and more despondent that there can be anything but personal R for myself by going into a dark plan B. I have conducted myself with dignity and respect, I can look in the mirror and be OK with what I see. I have a question? The lies that they tell the spouse's are obvious, then there are the lies that they are telling each other. Their conversations have no substance or context, its all about bashing me and what my WH can give OW or what OW can get out of her H. The promises that my WH is making to OW are almost ridiculous, but I think he really believes some of what he is telling her. She is cake-eating and won't give her H a definitive answer regarding ending their marriage. My question is this - how far will WH husband take the lies and promises? And doesn't the truth always come out in the end? Then what - how does WH live with how he has acted and the things that he has said to her about me and the disrespect he has shown everyone?
The other horrible part of this, kids are home for break and WH is going to spend weekend with her and is out of town next week for business.
What a great opportunity you and Mr. OWH have to corodinate a double PLB. To be real blunt with you isn't it hard to watch the cakeaters and not take agressive action?
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The more I learn about the affair, what they are saying to each other, and how they talk about me (I am the reason for all the bad things that are happening???); I become more discouraged and more despondent that there can be anything but personal R for myself by going into a dark plan B.
I don't know where you are at with your plan but I see this as a golden opportunity to lock the A partners out and let them stand in there fantasy world. Tie up the fianances-change the locks on the house-Have them served papers-something that would shake up their worlds and put real PRESSURE on the A.
Adiction is addiction is addiction-Doesn't matter what it is-food -alcohol-gambling afairs-When we want to pick up and use........................
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We addicts (unless in true recovery)--> lie-TAKE IT FROM ONE IN RECOVERY BOTH FROM ALCOHOL AND A's. Doesn't matter to who we lie (unless in true recovery)as long as we are get our fix.
Doesn't really matter so much what we say as long as we can continue to get what we want and nobody gets in our way.
SHAKE YOUR FOG BABBELING WW UP IN A REAL BIG WAY
WOULD THAT BE OUT OF CHARACTER FOR MM?
I found for myself this to be extremely empowering...Even if I don't get the M back at least I took a stand for myself and will know in my heart I have done all I can do for this R.
The more I learn about the affair, what they are saying to each other, and how they talk about me (I am the reason for all the bad things that are happening???); I become more discouraged and more despondent that there can be anything but personal R for myself by going into a dark plan B.
The goal of plan B is to prevent the BS from getting EXACTLY to this point after an A. Yet... you still continue to keep the lights on and SEE him.
MyMissy its really time to go DARK before you lose ALL interest or hope in R. STOP letting him continue to traumatize you over and over. Every deatil of the continuing A is a new stab for you. From the outside I can see that its all one wound, one A but you living the continued trauma of it feels to you like new wounds. Stop letting him continue to wound you. Its like a car accident on the road, all the other drivers know its gonna be gruesome but we keep turning and looking anyway .
Stop looking at the crash site. Its there , theres lot of damage, keep your eyes ahead and keep driving, focus on your own road. The more time you spend surverying the accident on the other side of the road the more likely you are to veer off your own side of the road.
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My question is this - how far will WH husband take the lies and promises? And doesn't the truth always come out in the end?
The lies and fantasy will go as far as they need in order for the A to stay alive and justified and the selfish taker can continue to get what they need. A WS will never give up trying, cause if they do then they are acknowledeging to themselves that it was all an illusion and not reality. They will give very ounce of their being to prove that the illusion they see is REAL. Only once the issuion is shattered inspite of their attempts to keep it going do they begin to see that it was indeed an illusion. Yes the truth comes out in the END, the definition of END just varies from stich to stich.
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Then what - how does WH live with how he has acted and the things that he has said to her about me and the disrespect he has shown everyone?
A FWH lives in pain and remorse and anger at himself for scre*ing up his life and others he loves. A FWH struggles with reconciling who he really is vs the selfish being he became while he attempted to fill his needs at the cost of others. It cant be easy being a FWH, I see the remorse in my DH's eyes and I feel his pain. I am sorry that he has to live with accepting his actions and the impact of them. Good people do bad things and just like a BS needs healing I am confident that with each passing year with the help of a loving M both I and my DH will heal a little bit more from our own wounds.
A FWH lives in pain and remorse and anger at himself for scre*ing up his life and others he loves. A FWH struggles with reconciling who he really is vs the selfish being he became while he attempted to fill his needs at the cost of others. It cant be easy being a FWH, I see the remorse in my DH's eyes and I feel his pain. I am sorry that he has to live with accepting his actions and the impact of them. Good people do bad things and just like a BS needs healing I am confident that with each passing year with the help of a loving M both I and my DH will heal a little bit more from our own wounds.
Only when a WW is willing to attempt putting the F in front of it does the process of personal reconciliation begin. It is not easy. For a year and a half or longer I struggled with figuring out who and what was important in my life. The guilt and shame of knowing I put my needs above all those around me was the a cruelest indulgance of my life. I carefully gaurd myself with personal bounderies against it now.
I never want that experience again in my lifetime. NEVER
I am leaving/moving in 25 days. My new place will be ready the last week of March. For now he will be leaving in the morning to be gone for 5 or 6 days - thank god. I am going to "slowly" go forward with D. Even if down the road there is R, he has to do a lot of personal R first. OWH has keylog and sends me copies, this is why I know exactly how cruel and deceptive he is being. So, I continue to pack stuff and put in storage when he is not here and continue to plan to go dark, you are right WMF I did wait to long for plan B. It is being traumatized over and over again. I am also not sure how to take a stand at this point, I just want to get away.
It is 9.5 weeks post Dday, it is 3 more weeks until I go dark. Does it really ever get better, today is a bad day. Was able to get through work - just. Have not been able to stop crying since coming home. I still feel as though I have walked into the twilight zone, his family is avoiding me. No one calls to see "how I am". My only support is my family and friends and most are an hour away. I feel as though I cannot continue to whine to people I work with. But it all feels so insane, pent up, frustrating, and horribly wrong. I still don't understand how we have gotten to this point so quickly and how WH is able to make the continued outlandish promises to OW. But they are both buying into what the other says. And I know - you all have said there is no understanding. Now I just feel drained, no longer strong and no longer myself. Any suggestions on how to survive the next 3 weeks? I still have much preparing and packing to do, it is all so overwhelming!!!!
The only way I got through the last few days was that I kept remembering that I had an END DATE. I too cried all of the time, except in front of WH as I was in Plan A. I told my friends a few times that I should have been on AD's(and believe me, if WH comes home, I will definitely have to go on meds for sure).
I was lucky that I had a friend I could lean on that didn't judge me, she just listened. She would let me vent and say all of my crazy thoughts. She still does. She gets MB. I am lucky to have her. I also write a journal. I find it helps me to get it all out.
Just wanted to wish you the best, Mymissy, you are in my thoughts. What works for me, is to just get through one day at a time. Acknowledge the end date in your mind, but don't look too far ahead in terms of what you have to accomplish or deal with, it can get overwhelming.
Now I just feel drained, no longer strong and no longer myself.
Promise us, more importantly promise yourself that once you "go dark" you will REALLY stay dark.
Please, I beg you. For your sake, you need to do a plan B to recover your sanity.
Promise us you will not fill every waking moment with thoughts/concerns/worries about WH/OW ... this will take so much discipline on your part. Start to gear up for that discipline today. Every day do things that require your concentration and focus. Take part in some demanding physical activity. Kick boxing or self defense would be good.
And when you feel crazy, call someone to be with you. or, go visit someone who can hold you and comfort you. We care, but we are not enough.
Doesn't really matter so much what we say as long as we can continue to get what we want and nobody gets in our way.
SHAKE YOUR FOG BABBELING WW UP IN A REAL BIG WAY
WOULD THAT BE OUT OF CHARACTER FOR MM?
I found for myself this to be extremely empowering...Even if I don't get the M back at least I took a stand for myself and will know in my heart I have done all I can do for this R.
I have tried so hard to recover this marriage and do a great Plan A, the first 4 weeks seemed to show that. Then things progressed so quickly downhill. I do know that I don't have to sign D papers; however at this point I truly feel that it would push WS and OW closer together, they seem to band together in a common thread against me. So far that has happened several times now. So, I am going to move forward to Plan B/D, but I am NOT accepting the "separation/dissolution BS he has thrown my way. It WILL be "equitable division of assets and debt. He does not know when or where I am moving to, I am planning it for a day when he is at work. So basically he will come home to an empty house and the Plan B letter.
Promise us, more importantly promise yourself that once you "go dark" you will REALLY stay dark.
Please, I beg you. For your sake, you need to do a plan B to recover your sanity.
Promise us you will not fill every waking moment with thoughts/concerns/worries about WH/OW ... this will take so much discipline on your part. Start to gear up for that discipline today. Every day do things that require your concentration and focus. Take part in some demanding physical activity. Kick boxing or self defense would be good.
And when you feel crazy, call someone to be with you. or, go visit someone who can hold you and comfort you. We care, but we are not enough.
Thanks Pep, I really do just need peace right now, The last 4 weeks have been such torment. I still don't understand how someone could tell you how much they love you to hurting you beyond comprehension in a few weeks. I also feel that although I tried to follow all the MB advice that I still did something wrong along the way. I truly have thought that the situation would turn around somehow. How do you get over the feelings of guilt and blame for yourself?
I also feel that although I tried to follow all the MB advice that I still did something wrong along the way. I truly have thought that the situation would turn around somehow. How do you get over the feelings of guilt and blame for yourself?
I dont think you did anything wrong necessarily. Its a process and sometimes it takes a while for the results to show.
The only thing I would have you re-evaluate is where you lump in plan B and D together. IMO part of the reason MB works specifically Plan A is cause inspite of the pain and devasatation there is a message communicated to the WS that there is hope that the M can be salvaged. Plan A -LB's and DJ'd sends an unwavering message of hope to a WS even when you cant see it. When you talk about moving towards plan B and D at the same time it sort of takes away from that unvawering hope and gives the WS re-enforcemnet that the choice they are making is best for them cause the BS will leave them anyway even if they give up OW and perhaps they will end up with neither in their hand. Sort of like bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.
I am sure pre A you envisioned like most NORMAL people that if your spouse ever cheated youd be out the door and yet here you are doing what might see un-natural to some one who has not been in the shoes of a BS. I think most WS's cling to OP cause they are unable to accept that the BS is REALLY willing and able to move past and A.
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How do you get over the feelings of guilt and blame for yourself?
There is no guilt or blame. This is a tough road with a lot of uphill battles. The able bodied person you are pulling along is taking so much of your strenght that you just want to dump them over the side and trudge along by yourself. Especially since the whole point of the journey was that the 2 of you would be hauling this beautiful wagon together. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to pull them along and letting everyone pull their own wagon. Its not possible to pull along an unwilling partner for long.
As long as you know you did EVERYTHING you were willing and able to do for the R of this M, there will be no guilt and you should be at peace with what ever the outcome. Sadness if its not the desired outcome and yet peace beacuse there is nothing more you could have done.
The only thing I would have you re-evaluate is where you lump in plan B and D together. IMO part of the reason MB works specifically Plan A is cause inspite of the pain and devasatation there is a message communicated to the WS that there is hope that the M can be salvaged. Plan A -LB's and DJ'd sends an unwavering message of hope to a WS even when you cant see it. When you talk about moving towards plan B and D at the same time it sort of takes away from that unvawering hope and gives the WS re-enforcemnet that the choice they are making is best for them cause the BS will leave them anyway even if they give up OW and perhaps they will end up with neither in their hand. Sort of like bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.
I move in this direction mainly because I really really do not know what else to do. I know every one here has said I don't have to sign. But even my lawyer has asked why drag it out at this point. He will simply file for divorce. Now I am just trying to protect assets and my own sanity. I am secretly hoping that the A will crumble, although it does not seem to be showing signs of that yet. He just continues to make promises and reassurances to her that cannot possibly work out in the time frame they are thinking. Both OWH and myself think we are going insane, but then we seem to live in a different world than they do. So again, I am lost at this time as to what to continue to do other than go forward with the formal separation agreement which in my opinion he will then instantly file into dissolution. I am moving and going dark for my own sanity. The two just seem to be happening at the same time. A quote from WH sister "It doesn't matter who or what tries to convince him he is making a mistake, he seems confident in his decision. And if or when it blows up in his face, if you are there, I feel he will blame you."
I move in this direction mainly because I really really do not know what else to do.
IGNORE THE NOISES OUT THERE AND FOLLOW THE MB PLAN.
Step 1) Plan A for a short amount of time - check done that
Step 2) Plan B - starts now
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He will simply file for divorce.
WHEN he files for divorce send it back saying you dont accept. Feel free to talk to your lawer with the intent of gathering all the info you need in oder to delay the D as long as possible and make sure you are not sacrificing any of your rights in doing so.
If you want a M and then take stpes towards that
If you want a D then take steps towards that.
DONT LET YOUR STEPS BE DECIDED BY THE MOVES YOUR ALIEN WH TAKES.
I am secretly hoping that the A will crumble, although it does not seem to be showing signs of that yet
You-Don't allow the cake eaters to continue without some type of distrubance to their Fog babbeled fantasy world. Thats what this is all about. Breaking up their fantasy world and making them very uncomfortable with "their" behavior in the eyes of everyone around them.
Don't make it easy for them to continue on.
You have had great intel with the OMH so why not use it to your advantage?
I know you can't answer for the OWH but is he doing anything to bust up the A? Or is he watching a train wreck in slow motion wishing He could do something?
You-Don't allow the cake eaters to continue without some type of distrubance to their Fog babbeled fantasy world. Thats what this is all about. Breaking up their fantasy world and making them very uncomfortable with "their" behavior in the eyes of everyone around them.
Don't make it easy for them to continue on.
You have had great intel with the OMH so why not use it to your advantage?
I know you can't answer for the OWH but is he doing anything to bust up the A? Or is he watching a train wreck in slow motion wishing He could do something?
Wishing is not a plan.
Nesre
He is watching the train wreck wishing he could do something. He is moving forward toward divorce. Every time we make a move to make it harder on them - they pull closer together with the common thread that I am the evil wife. I am out of ideas?????
MYMISSY-take solace in these stats. DrH says himself that Plan A alone only works about 15% of the time. That means that 85% of the people who implement Plan A will also have to implement Plan B. That does NOT in any way say that you are failure. In the contrary, it says you are doing exactly what you are supposed to be doing.
As far as your lawyer and what he tells you to do, ask him if that is his LEGAL advice because I believe that is all you are paying him for not his morals and values advice.
It really doesn't matter what OWH is doing. In my case, POSOW is SINGLE. She prides herself on the fact that she never dated anyone for more than 2 years. That means NOTHING to me.
Your WH and OW are lying to eachother, OF COURSE. Of course they will made giant claims to eachother. IT IS FANTASYLAND. The REALITY of A is that about 1.5 % of them will be happily M after 5 years. Your chances are 50-50. Who wouldn't take those odds. I can't remember who got remarried on these boards(I think it was Lil and Flick) but anything is possible.
Just stick with YOUR plan and do the best you can. You have done more than most BS's and some people would say you have done more than you should.
Finances-legals-place to live-lock WW out of the house b-4 he returns at the end of this week and give him the PLB letter with his suitcase ?
Yes it may push the WW's together- TOGETHER INTO AN UNREALISTIC FANTASY WORLD WHERE REAL LIFE PROBLEMS WILL BE THERE TO SOLVE-
HMMM...KINDA LIKE BEING MARRIED.
WOULDN'T THIS CREATE A HUGE PROBLEMS WITH OWH AND HIS WW???
If he also locks her out what kind of problems would that bring to the A? I thought you said Ow has young children. Could OWH tie this up in court? Children are a drag on A's. If she is any kind of mother wouldn't she want those children? Might be a huge pressure point to consider.
DESTROY THE FANTASY OR IT WILL CONTINUE ON.
I know this pushes your PLB plan. I see this as an excellant opportunity to SHAKE UP THEIR WORLDS.
Finances-legals-place to live-lock WW out of the house b-4 he returns at the end of this week and give him the PLB letter with his suitcase ?
Yes it may push the WW's together- TOGETHER INTO AN UNREALISTIC FANTASY WORLD WHERE REAL LIFE PROBLEMS WILL BE THERE TO SOLVE-
HMMM...KINDA LIKE BEING MARRIED.
WOULDN'T THIS CREATE A HUGE PROBLEMS WITH OWH AND HIS WW???
If he also locks her out what kind of problems would that bring to the A? I thought you said Ow has young children. Could OWH tie this up in court? Children are a drag on A's. If she is any kind of mother wouldn't she want those children? Might be a huge pressure point to consider.
DESTROY THE FANTASY OR IT WILL CONTINUE ON.
I know this pushes your PLB plan. I see this as an excellant opportunity to SHAKE UP THEIR WORLDS.
Nesre
OWH is trying to push her out the door, he is also going to stop allowing her to go out all night while he sits at home and watches children. As far as me, I have signed a lease and have about half the house packed, so I am moving. However, I plan on tying up the divorce for a while. So for right now the dreams they keep telling each other are not going to happen. I don't think I can legally lock him out of the house? And he just won't go away or stay at his parents. He stays here and pretends I am invisible. As I pretend he is invisible. There is no communication between us. I think pushing them together would be the wake up needed, just not sure how to get there - legally.
Just stick with YOUR plan and do the best you can. You have done more than most BS's and some people would say you have done more than you should.
Thanks Scotland and Pep, I doubt and feel like I am second guessing EVERY decision I have made so far. But I keep trying to put one foot in front of the other and now just want to minimize the damage to myself. The whole thing is so hard, I keep reading threads hoping for a miracle that has happened for someone else, but I see the same situation as my own. Over and over again, it all sounds like the same story, the names, dates, and details differ; but not the core of the story.
Maybe I am wrong since I haven't done it yet but isn't Legal Separation virtually the same in protecting your finances to Divorce with the exception that you are still legally married to the other person?
If you feel compelled to file for something, why not legal separation?
And, do not listen to the lawyer about going ahead with divorce because they are mostly de-sensitized to the situation with handling so many.
Well, WH is back from out of town and seeing OW. I don't understand why he attempts to initiate conversation with me one minute and then I get the cold shoulder the next. I simply am unable to respond - its easier to pretend he is invisible. I have 1.5 weeks before I can move, I have definitely waited to long to go to Plan B.
I cannot look him in the eye, all I see now is a ghost of who I knew and big pile of lying, steamy sh*t. He is starting to show signs of the stress around his eyes and is looking like he has aged 5 years in 3 months. He is also going through nyquil like it is a daily cordial. That is only the little bit I see, no idea what I am not seeing. How sad to have done this to your life and the lives of everyone involved for his own selfishness.
I am sad coming to this realization, yet there is this little tiny part of me that continues to hold out hope that he will come out of this fog before we are divorced. But I don't think that will happen. I believe he will take this all the way to try and prove that he isn't making a mistake. That is probably when the crash will happen. I am hoping to be working on my own personal recovery then.
I have received a bit of questionable bad news; I am a thyroid cancer survivor and after 2.5 yrs have had an ultrasound come back with questionable lymph nodes and now have to do the radioactive iodine scans. I am hoping the lymph nodes are questionable due to stress and not any metastasis.
I could use a prayer and string of good thoughts. Thanks MB community for giving me a place to learn and vent and find some measure of solace.
I am hoping to be working on my own personal recovery then.
I have received a bit of questionable bad news; I am a thyroid cancer survivor and after 2.5 yrs have had an ultrasound come back with questionable lymph nodes and now have to do the radioactive iodine scans. I am hoping the lymph nodes are questionable due to stress and not any metastasis.
I could use a prayer and string of good thoughts. Thanks MB community for giving me a place to learn and vent and find some measure of solace.
Stress will make you ill, stress will make you sick, stress will kill you.
Breathe, take care of your own health. Your H is in a fog. Turn him over to God because you cannot take care of him.
Your own health should be your own concern right now. I cannot tell you about how many stories I have read here when the A starts the BS gets sick or goes out of remission.
My prayers are with you. Have faith in yourself. take care.
Thanks for the prayers, they are much appreciated.
I am still struggling with how emotionally distant WH continues to become. I still don't understand how the person who claimed to love you and be your best friend can so callously ignore and disregard you so quickly.
Can this be explained, do the Waywards reap what they sow?
Happy to see you post again. Sad to hear your news. I will keep you in my prayers that God will deliver good results.
Knowing how typical WW's act really is the only way we as BS's are able to follow the MB's plans. MB's plan A/B PROTECT US-from the twisted thinking that goes along with A's. Sometimes A,B,D work to end the A and R the M. Sometimes nothing will and the M wont be recovered.
Knowing exactly what a WW is thinking is about the same as asking a true alcoholic what they are thinking when they go on a long binge or when intoxicated. You'll get a lot of excuses, rationalizations, and self justification that more than likely wont make sense in most peoples world. Especially if a past history of consequensces is known.
Until true recovery is sought by a WW the same is virtually true. None of it will make sense.
Really focus on yourself. Make sure to take care of yourself. You are really the only one you can control in this situation.. A really good thread entitled "Inside the WW's Mind was bumped up to the top today and really puts together the thoughts of a TYPICAL WW. Might be worth a read if you already havent read it.
Happy to see you post again. Sad to hear your news. I will keep you in my prayers that God will deliver good results.
Knowing how typical WW's act really is the only way we as BS's are able to follow the MB's plans. MB's plan A/B PROTECT US-from the twisted thinking that goes along with A's. Sometimes A,B,D work to end the A and R the M. Sometimes nothing will and the M wont be recovered.
Knowing exactly what a WW is thinking is about the same as asking a true alcoholic what they are thinking when they go on a long binge or when intoxicated. You'll get a lot of excuses, rationalizations, and self justification that more than likely wont make sense in most peoples world. Especially if a past history of consequensces is known.
Until true recovery is sought by a WW the same is virtually true. None of it will make sense.
Really focus on yourself. Make sure to take care of yourself. You are really the only one you can control in this situation.. A really good thread entitled "Inside the WW's Mind was bumped up to the top today and really puts together the thoughts of a TYPICAL WW. Might be worth a read if you already havent read it.
Again-I will keep you in my prayers
Nesre
Thank you so much Nesre for the prayers, they are much appreciated.
I am now just looking forward to moving. I need different walls, a nest with no reminders, and not having to worry where WH is, what he is doing in the bathroom, what he is texting to OW, or when is he getting home. The keylog I installed on 2nd laptop has proved worth the price???? I know have the passwords I have wanted and am able to read. How hurtful it all is. I really now understand the need for a short plan A and then plan B. I have waited to long for plan B and the bank is running on red. I am moving forward to plan D.
I did read "inside the waywards mind" and understand what and why they say what they say. But unfortunately now I am looking out for myself and need to not look at the very mean and cruel person I am currently married to. I am better than that and deserve better than that. Now I just peace and no more drama - however, I am going with half. I will not roll over and play dead. His latest stunt was to hang OW picture on the wall in the upstairs bedroom where he sleeps. I refuse to acknowledge it, I know he is just trying to wear me down.
His latest stunt was to hang OW picture on the wall in the upstairs bedroom where he sleeps. I refuse to acknowledge it, I know he is just trying to wear me down.
Am I the only one who thinks this is just unacceptable. There are some boundaries I am just not willing and able to let a WS cross. Hanging up a picture of OW in a home that I reside in... How DARE he not only continue the A but rub my face in it. He certainly would come home to the locks changed and the picture sitting on the street just past the lawn where our property ended, along with any other personal items of his that I could possibly bear to have the energy to throw out the front window.
Then again I realise that everyone has a differnt threshold for tolerance and I am simply voicing mine. Good luck to you mymissy on your personal R and I would humbly suggest that you re-evaulate your boundaries for this all future relationships.
I am a BW and I have started reading throughs others' posts and I am learning so much. Your thread is one of the first ones I have finished. I am so sorry for what you have been through. Many prayers for you in your personal recovery.
Then again I realise that everyone has a differnt threshold for tolerance and I am simply voicing mine.
It should come as no surprise to you that my threshold is pretty similar to yours. If it were me, photos of OW would have taken flight, destination, unknown.
Am I the only one who thinks this is just unacceptable. There are some boundaries I am just not willing and able to let a WS cross. Hanging up a picture of in a home that I reside in... How DARE he not only continue the A but rub my face in it.
No Wanna, you don't have a lower threshhold, I KNOW I couldn't tolerate this. And my lack of tolerance would definately have been a HUGE love busting Plan FU.
Mymissy, get rid of it. This is STILL your home and you should not let anyone disrespect you in, not even the heartless POSWH who resides there as well. Get rid of it YESTERDAY.....and if he asks you if you did something with it (and your WH seems to have NO brain cells left that he will ask) just pat his head and say "Yes dear I took the trash out today.......wanna potatoe chip?" and then walk away.
You don't need to yell, argue or fight.....just state your boundary ( NO TRASH allowed outside of the recepticle) and walk away.....some Waywards are so dense they need visuals
Missy, one thing to remember is that everytime you do something to interfere with their affair, they will spend a majority of their time together just b*itching. Who cares if they're b*tching about you? The point is...listening to each other b*tch about ANYTHING is not a fun thing to do. And, you know what? I think that, sooner or later, the OW will probably say something about you that even your WH probably won't like...especially if he's tired of hearing her b*tch about you.
Then again I realise that everyone has a differnt threshold for tolerance and I am simply voicing mine.
It should come as no surprise to you that my threshold is pretty similar to yours. If it were me, photos of OW would have taken flight, destination, unknown.
Thank you Pep, I was starting to believe that I was dwelling on a planet all my own. I am all for saving marriages but I am not in for being trampled all over in the process.
His latest stunt was to hang OW picture on the wall in the upstairs bedroom where he sleeps. I refuse to acknowledge it, I know he is just trying to wear me down.
This might win as the most disrespectful thing a wayward has done intentionally. He is officially out of his mind.
He needs to take it down NOW. If he doesn't then he will wear it when you smash it over his alien brain.
What I would do?
Set up a satanic shrine underneath it. Light black candles.
Put a banner above it..."Can rent by the hour"
Put additional pictures such as Tiger Woods, Hunter, David Letterman and call it "scum row"
Waywards can be shamed into reality for short periods (although its prolly not a good idea in plan A) Flick did disrespectful things and I tried to remind him to not do it. For example he called me his ex wife on an auction once, I told him it was hurtful, he didnt do it again. He put PQ above me on a online friends list and I told him it was disrespectful and believe it or not he moved her to 5th position. He was doing that hateful hot/cold thing to me one day and I told him I was tired of the fact that he could'nt be at least courteous to me, and he got better...for a while.
Then again I realise that everyone has a differnt threshold for tolerance and I am simply voicing mine.
It should come as no surprise to you that my threshold is pretty similar to yours. If it were me, photos of OW would have taken flight, destination, unknown.
Thank you Pep, I was starting to believe that I was dwelling on a planet all my own. I am all for saving marriages but I am not in for being trampled all over in the process.
I absolutely love your rant Pep!!!! Don't worry MB community - I will have final say.
I have amazed myself at the strength and restraint that I have shown throughout this entire ordeal. I am now all about finding peace for myself and personal recovery. But also have much retaliation - along with OWH - planned.
To answer WMF - no, you are not dwelling on another planet. Hanging the picture is completely and totally unacceptable; and no worries WH will know that I find it completely disrepectful. I just got word today that my apartment will be ready by the first of next week and have arranged for movers for the end of next week. Right now my focus is on getting out of here and getting through the next 2 weeks of medical stuff and actually moving.
Being able to read through all of his emails has been very eye opening. He is damaged and broken - not the person I fell in love with and married. Right now I cannot contemplate staying married or even being with a person like this. He has no conscience; and truly believes that he is doing no wrong - "since they were meant to be together".
I want to get everything I asked for in legal separation and get him to sign and if he is getting desparate, then I will get it quicker.
He is taking this to the extreme and I have accepted that now, everyone keeps telling me that he will come crawling back after it all explodes - I will cross that bridge at that time. For now I need peace and I still know WH better than anyone and this will not end until he hits rock bottom. OWH and I are going to make sure that happens - after legal documents are signed.
So rest assured - the hanging of the picture will have ramifications.
I want to get everything I asked for in legal separation and get him to sign and if he is getting desparate, then I will get it quicker.
He is taking this to the extreme and I have accepted that now, everyone keeps telling me that he will come crawling back after it all explodes - I will cross that bridge at that time. For now I need peace and I still know WH better than anyone and this will not end until he hits rock bottom. OWH and I are going to make sure that happens - after legal documents are signed.
So rest assured - the hanging of the picture will have ramifications.
"hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"
Can this "Misquote" also include when she's teamed up with OWBH for execution of the ramifications??
Hang in there your doing great. Gotta see where this goes.
I have amazed myself at the strength and restraint that I have shown throughout this entire ordeal. I am now all about finding peace for myself and personal recovery. But also have much retaliation - along with OWH - planned.
Revenge is a dish best served cold so if thats the route you plan to go then I guess you are on track for achieving that perfectly. Hope it brings you the closure you need to notch your personal recovery up one more level.
That being said the consequence of DISRESPECT part requires a more direct and immediate and proportionate response. Its sort of like training a dog (I am in no way comparing your WH to a dog ). When he pees on the couch he needs an immediate response/consequence to LEARN that his action was wrong and will not be tolerated. If you punish him an hour later he will only be confused at to why you are being insane and acting like a lunatic.
I wrote over the picture " I cannot believe you hung a picture of this wh**e in MY home while I am still living here, this is completely disrespectful and unacceptable - much like your actions and behavior".
That being said, no I honestly don't think revenge will help me achieve the closure I need. I think that will simply take lots of time, but it sure will feel good to get what I want and for him to not be able to give OW what she wants. Lets see if they can live on just love and not his wallet/savings.
Besides, people don't change their true nature like he is saying that he has, so I believe that it is all still just smoke he is blowing to try and continue to live this fantasy they have created.
At this point in this game, to much has been said and done for me to consider anything but dark Plan B for personal recovery only.
So, for me I have movers coming in 8 days (while he is at work)and will be gone, along with most of the furniture by the time he gets home that day.
Yeah, I cannot wait until I have a peaceful 4 walls and no more crap to deal with - other than the legalities of it all, which can go through my lawyer.
I feel as though I tried my hardest and gave it all my best shot to recover this marriage. But I do think he had already decided our fate before I even found out about the A.
Now all I can do is heal and hopefully learn something from all of this.
Eeeek, A bit more than I would have done in plan A
Maybe tone it down a bit by just taking it down and leaving a note saying something like "Putting up pictures of OW while I am still living in the house is very disrespectful. I have been your wife for XX years. You may do as you wish in your own home, not in mine."
Yeah, I think you overdid it on the picture. I am thinking that on your last evening there, you might like to have a nice shrimp dinner...and use the leftover shrimp to...um...improve the curtain rods.
Nah...don't do it! Sure is a tempting thought, though!
Just checkin in. Hows everything going? You takin care of yourself?
When is DR.s appt?
Nesre
Thanks for asking! Have not been so good last few days, very tearful. Once I do not need info for dissolution, then I plan to stop reading emails - too painful.
I see the Dr. on 03/25. I am moving on 03/26. Then I start my scans on 03/29. Again I am going to assume that the ultrasound is showing questionable lymph nodes due to stress and that all will be fine. I am still exercising and eating well.
WH and OW are out looking at their dream house today. OWH and I still feel like we are in an episode of the twilight zone. How does one make an appointment with a real estate agent to view a home with your affairee, while the two of you are still married to your respective spouses and divorces have not even been officially filed yet. OW and OWH have not even told their children yet, she keeps backing out.
After they tour the house they are going out to dinner and 2 of his children are meeting them. Apparently they caved. Then OW mother wants to meet WH. Obviously everyone surrounding them are enablers.
In the emails that I read most often it is just juvenile crap, second to that is bashing me, and then when he doesn't bash me, she will then start stating, I know she is up to something. Just wait till I move out, take everything and then he sees my demands for dissolution. Then I am sure the emails will start flying back and forth. I am surrendering to the inevitable.....
Is anyone ever shocked at the lengths the WS will go to protect their selfish fantasy? How much they are willing to hurt the one person they once said they loved? And how quickly they and the enablers around them begin to erase the BS from their lives? How much they have changed and how quickly this change occurred?
I have so many questions, questions I know I will probably never get the answers to. I keep thinking that if I had those answers maybe I could process this better.
But I don't think that is going to happen.
How do you move forward, there is so much pain with packing up, moving, and dealing with continued b.s. of his going to meet her every weekend.
Is anyone ever shocked at the lengths the WS will go to protect their selfish fantasy? How much they are willing to hurt the one person they once said they loved? And how quickly they and the enablers around them begin to erase the BS from their lives? How much they have changed and how quickly this change occurred?
Mymissy, it is shocking but when i read the other threads it is quite common. My XH is totally controlled by OW that he is like her now.
You are no longer dealing with your H. Just an alien.
My XH is in such a selfish fantasy he has shut his own children out. He blames me but it is him making no effort at all. Our DD16, who used to call her Dad "her hero", has not seen him for almost a year and he lives 5 miles away. Sad situation but it is her choice and he is doing nothing to change it.
I just pray, I try to detach and take one day at a time. Once you are out of the house they will have no one else to blame.
About that picture...just invert a brown paper sack over it and hang it back up. After all, don't ugly people look better with brown paper bags over their heads?
About that picture...just invert a brown paper sack over it and hang it back up. After all, don't ugly people look better with brown paper bags over their heads?
Put 2 bags in case one breaks. Also turn the picture upside down.
I like the brown paper bag idea, I would still like to permanently destroy the picture though.
I move out tomorrow, he still does not know. He will come in to an empty house.
I have not cried all week until tonight, I got a little teary; I am also leaving behind two of my bigger dogs and only taking the one small one. It breaks my heart to leave them behind, but I do not have a lifestyle,the space, and am renting for the next year to be able to take two large dogs. WH states that although he has gone through many changes (understatement), that his love for the dogs has never changed and I have to tell myself that he will continue to care for them as always despite his current selfishness. I agree with hope3343 that an alien continues to inhabit the body of the person I once knew, and I continue to be amazed at the level of stupidity that he displays. WH has started to change many of his personal habits because she doesn't like them. Whatever.
Thanks for the continued encouragement Pep, some days it feels like I am moving forward only moment by moment. But I know that I deserve better. I still would not have envisioned my life where it is today a mere 12 weeks ago.
Good news is that through continued exercise I have lost all of my previous cancer weight and look and feel great. My preliminary lab work has all come back looking good and the scans are just a precaution to be sure of no metastasis.
The other good things in my life are a great job/career, supportive friends, family, and coworkers. So life should only continue to get better. Again thanks to all who have given me great advice and support.
Thinking about you today. Did you leave a Plan B letter for him?
Would like to be a fly on the wall for when WH walks into the house. Because he is in such a fog it might take him a little time to process that you are not there.
I worry about the 2 dogs. Any possibility that a friend or family could take them? Seriously when these waywards get like this the only objective is to focus on the OP.
Just a thought. I hate this too and I feel for you. Blessings.
Well, I spent my first night in my new place; I have familiar things around me within four different walls. It feels strange to not be in my home for the last 12 years; yet I am oddly relieved to be away. Part of me wants to know what he is doing and what he has done in the house; part of me is grateful I don't know. It makes this transition easier. I have asked my MIL to make sure the dogs are ok, she and my FIL will ensure that they get the basic care they need. I know they won't get the attention they are used to, but I will be able to go out when he is at work and occasionally see them, play with them, and walk them. I also feel as though all of this happened so fast, we really never spoke, and that I have so little closure. I lost my friend and my husband almost overnight; and am only starting to realize how much had not been said between us in a couple of years. Its hard to wrap your thoughts and emotions around all of it....
I also feel as though all of this happened so fast, we really never spoke, and that I have so little closure. I lost my friend and my husband almost overnight; and am only starting to realize how much had not been said between us in a couple of years. Its hard to wrap your thoughts and emotions around all of it....
I know. I think the really cruel part of your situation, is the speed with which the rug was yanked out from under your feet. Really cruel. It boggles the mind just how cruel.
You cannot control how cruel the wayward becomes, that's for sure. Some people lack empathy, I suppose.
Thinking about you today. Did you leave a Plan B letter for him?
Would like to be a fly on the wall for when WH walks into the house. Because he is in such a fog it might take him a little time to process that you are not there.
I worry about the 2 dogs. Any possibility that a friend or family could take them? Seriously when these waywards get like this the only objective is to focus on the OP.
Just a thought. I hate this too and I feel for you. Blessings.
Here is the "sort of" plan B letter that I left, I say "sort of" because at this point I am not sure where I stand.
WH, I have always admired your integrity, caring, and reliability. Your strength has always inspired me. I will remember kindly all the times you have stood by me in bad health, in difficult times with the kids, and in other difficulties in our lives. I will also fondly remember all the fun times in PIB, Vegas, and the Smoky Mountains, the long walks on the beaches in Florida and the Bahamas. But I will mostly remember good times we have had with each other and with the kids. DstepD20 and I have forged a friendship that will last a lifetime. I have also always believed in you, trusted you and loved you. I am sorry for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with OWH�s wife possible. Since you continue your affair with his wife; I need to avoid seeing you or talking to you. You may contact me through your mother, my brother, or my lawyer. I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must understand the suffering that I have endured because of your continued contact with her, the behavior you have demonstrated, and the choices that you have made that have affected us both and our family. I simply cannot be around you any longer knowing that you continue to see her. I cannot live here under these circumstances. The eternal optimist in me will always believe in the power of forgiveness. I loved you when I married you; and deep, deep in my heart a part of me always will. Mymissy
I hope that now that you have removed yourself from the direct path of watching your WH destroy your M that you will be able to find some peace and healing that you so desperately need. I am sorry that his continued cruel and hurtfull acts have brought you to this point. I am proud of you for the way you handeled youself and am looking forward to hearing updates from you as to where this new road leads you to. Take the time to find happiness in activities you enjoy and CONTINUE to remain dark and DO NOT allow the wayardness to seep in and steal your chances of achieving happiness. Good luck and best wishes for a happier future.
It is a bit easier being away from the situation, definitely more peaceful, the healing will come with time. WH not making it completely easy either, I moved out on Fri/Sat. WH came home on Sat. not knowing I had moved and then texted me several times and needed to switch vehicles for a few days. I keep it short, simple and to the point. Then Sunday, he texts me again out of the blue to let me know I can bring small dog over during the day if I have a long day at work. I have not firmly put boundary in place regarding only contacting me through certain people; but I may have to. Overall, I feel less tense; but sad and lonely. I guess no more sad and lonely since D day. And I feel as though I am still asking Why me/Why us/Why now?????
Mymissy- When did you give him the letter? Didn't you leave it in the house when you left? WS's HATE Plan B and will do whatever they can to break it. It makes them feel GREAT and makes you feel HORRIBLE. Please don't answer any of his texts. As a matter of fact, delete them without reading them. You could set up an IM but he shouldn't have to use it very often as you have little to discuss on a daily basis.
Mymissy- When did you give him the letter? Didn't you leave it in the house when you left? WS's HATE Plan B and will do whatever they can to break it. It makes them feel GREAT and makes you feel HORRIBLE. Please don't answer any of his texts. As a matter of fact, delete them without reading them. You could set up an IM but he shouldn't have to use it very often as you have little to discuss on a daily basis.
I left the letter for him on the kitchen counter in the empty house. Unfortunately I answered his texts, my bad. Now I am trying to figure out how to trade vehicles back without having to see him. When we switched on Sat. all of my friends were here as "back up".
Why do WW's hate plan B, I would think it has opened the path for him to do whatever now; and I can no longer read emails - he changed his password on different computer. But not reading them is better.
WS hate Plan B because they want to have it ALL. He loves the fact that he had 2 women who wanted him. He tries to contact you to show himself that you aren't serious.
Have an IM send him a message about trading the cars and have the IM do it. That way you do not need to have any contact with him.
Well, I guess timing is everything... I left to take dog for a walk, WH sent me a text stating "I left some stuff for you on your porch". OK, I read the text - but I did not respond. When I got home, there was my reusable shopping bags that I keep in my vehicle, along with a few things that I left behind, all my stuff that was in my vehicle, and the sign for my business that used to be on the mailbox. I am guessing that he does not want to switch vehicles back....OW would like to drive my vehicle (they are company leases and after D, I will not be able to drive) and I know that she is moving in a few weeks. OWH called me yesterday and said she still planning on moving in 3 weeks. OWH has also started casually dating someone (mistake IMHO) and OW is not dealing with that very well. (???)
Obviously this is not a good example of being dark is it? I have been sucked back into the drama of his waywardness. I really am trying... I guess the best response is - no response.
WS hate Plan B because they want to have it ALL. He loves the fact that he had 2 women who wanted him. He tries to contact you to show himself that you aren't serious.
Have an IM send him a message about trading the cars and have the IM do it. That way you do not need to have any contact with him.
I like the fact that I am no longer in the house and he can see me moping around. I guess that is why no response is best. I would think that the situation was as uncomfortable for him as it was for me. But like I said, he could see how much he hurt me and how angry I was. I guess switching vehicles isn't an issue for now.
Well, I did not hear from WH today, no texts. I have to admit I am slightly disappointed. But I realized today that I can breath, I am not feeling as though I am about to have an anxiety attack every minute of every day. So far for me Plan B is all about personal recovery. I find that I still have days of overwhelming sadness and wonder if those will get better.
It just doesn't seem like it right now. You obssess and second guess and get upset and revisit every conversation.
Gather your army of supporters. Spill and cry and talk and pray. Don't keep it all inside. Eventually you will get back your barrings. Then.... watch out WH. You will KNOW that it has nothing to do with you. He is the problem. And you will be ready for a battle.
What are your plans for the new place? Fresh flowers really do bring cheer! Splurge. How about a mani/pedi soon?
Please don't answer any of his texts. As a matter of fact, delete them without reading them.
X 2
X3
Hold yourself accountable to what you wrote in the PLB letter.
You set the terms of your relationship today with that letter. Usually the boudaries you set in the PLB letter will be tried over and over.
HOLD STRONG TO WHAT THE LETTER SAYS. If WH sees he can walk all over that letter then you have let him set the terms of your relationship. Wayturds don't respect boundaries very well or they probably wouldn't be Wayturds would they..........
Well, I did not hear from WH today, no texts. I have to admit I am slightly disappointed.
Its hard to accept change cause we all want things the way they were. Dont read into WHY there are no texts from him, be glad that there arent cause then you dont have to ignore them. If you REALLY want peace and recovery please please please read up on plan B and understand the purpose of it and how it can help YOU. Its very hard for me(us) to sit here in the sidelines and watch you suffer when there is an easy way YOU can save yourself from that.
I know it is hard, especially in the first few days/weeks of Plan B. You are going to have a withdrawal of your own for a little while. Gather that support and let it all out. Try very hard to change your way of thinking so WH isn't in every thought you have. It will get better, just start erasing him in your mind.
So do you have a new hobby? What have you always wanted to try and didn't? Do yo want to try skydiving? How about bungee jumping?
Thanks for the hug Scotty, I needed it. Actually for right now I am too busy with work, rearranging my new space, and caring for my dog (she is stressed with the change) to take up a new hobby. But I will consider skydiving or bungee jumping (not) So for now the time remains lonely and sad; and I can't help my feelings. For the last 13 years (minus the last 13 weeks) I spoke to this person everyday, often several times a day. I know I sound like a broken record, but it all still feels like a nightmare and not real. The reality of it all still s*cks and I can't seem to let go of the thoughts of what went wrong, why is he even attracted to her, have I made the right decisions, should I have continued to fight for the M, and what I might have done differently. I am still surviving moment to moment some days, although I seem to cry a little less. As hard as it is, I have maintained staying dark for the last few days. I have to admit though I am considering going out to the house next week one day while he is at work to check on the dogs and let all three play together for a while. I have avoided doing that this week. It would just be to soon and to hard.
All of these questions and thoughts are COMPLETELY NORMAL. Just remember that they teach you something. You will learn from it. I remember counting the first few days in minutes, then hours. The first month, I could have told you how many days it had been. Now I just say 3.5 months. I have to actually look at a calendar to really know. It feels good, but it is also a little sad. I realize that in a way I am moving on.
So about the skydiving and bungee jumping, truth be told, I AM AFRAID OF HEIGHTS. I can't even stand on a chair without being scared. I just thought that it would get you thinking about some things. And some people really do enjoy these activities, although why you would jump out of a perfectly functioning aircraft is beyond me
Actually for right now I am too busy with work, rearranging my new space, and caring for my dog (she is stressed with the change) to take up a new hobby.
My dog too was very depressed when XH moved out. She sat at the front door every day for months waiting for him.
But I will consider skydiving or bungee jumping (not) So for now the time remains lonely and sad; and I can't help my feelings. For the last 13 years (minus the last 13 weeks) I spoke to this person everyday, often several times a day. I know I sound like a broken record, but it all still feels like a nightmare and not real.
It will be 2 years from D day and I still miss speaking to my XH. I used to listen to his voice on my answering machine, playing it every day.
The reality of it all still s*cks and I can't seem to let go of the thoughts of what went wrong, why is he even attracted to her, have I made the right decisions, should I have continued to fight for the M, and what I might have done differently. I am still surviving moment to moment some days, although I seem to cry a little less. We will never know what is truly in the mind of a wayward. The only thing I have learned is that I have to survive and eventually thrive.
As hard as it is, I have maintained staying dark for the last few days.
I have to admit though I am considering going out to the house next week one day while he is at work to check on the dogs and let all three play together for a while. I have avoided doing that this week. It would just be to soon and to hard.
Well I need some advice.... DstepD20 is home from school this weekend and has been spending some time with me. WH found a box of my stuff at the house and thought it was all of my things from HS. What he obviously did not realize is that it had many, many of the countless letters and cards and love notes he had written to me when we were dating and first married. I am sending a few photos back to him via DstepD and thought I would include copies of a few of the letters to remind him of how much he was unsure if he ever loved me.
Good idea or Bad idea??????
The letters from 13 years ago now sound like the same stuff he now writes to OW. Only mine were longer and more in depth.
Any advice would be appreciated, he also offered to switch vehicles back and I thought I would just let DstepD do that for me, so that I don't have to respond to his text or see him.
Missy, don't second guess yourself. YOU know you couldn't handle trying to Plan A ESPECIALLY with the blantantly cruel WH you have.....(honestly I am not sure which is worse a WH who lies about the affair and all that entangles or the WH who crams it down your throat without a single regard...... I will say it all just pi$$es me off!!!!... ). Plan A is not for everyone, and it doesn't mean you are not strong or beautiful or worthy. Ya know, Mel is one VERY strong capapble woman, but she is very ADAMENT that she could NOT do a Plan A if her H was to cheat. She didn't with her last H and she didn't with her current H. And there is NO SHAME in that. So TRY on to question yourself with the "what it's"....
Instead, focus on YOU. What are some things you enjoy that got put to the wayside? What are some things you've always wanted to do but haven't? What are something that sound interesting that you never got to explore?
Make a "Bucket" list and then start doing them.....brainstorm without abandon!!!
Also, fill up your time...... Nothing is more depressing than sitting around doing NOTHING......
Do some volunteer work. Maybe spend time with elderly.....Become a Big Sister...... Work some weekends at an Emergency Childs shelter.....OR..... Do some work at a Animal Shelter. You could organize a donation drive for them. Set up a booth at a local store seeking donations for pet supplies, food, old towlez and blankets......
Just stay ACTIVE!!!!!!
I'll be praying for you.....love ya bunches.....Not2fun
well, I actually thought about sending some of them to OW - so your not as twisted as you thought.
I did manage about 5-6 weeks of plan A, then it was rammed as you say down my throat and I just stopped responding or speaking at all the last 5-6 weeks I was there.
Now at least I can breathe; but your right I am second guessing the decisions I have made, especially since reading the letters.
I just wanted to remind him of how he felt and the fact he is now saying the same identical things to OW - that maybe the problem is with him.
I guess I thought it would all somehow still work out, I am still secretly hoping that. I know Pep would respond with something like "hope and wishing isn't going to save your M, you need a plan and stick to it" I think it is best to stick with plan B. He still is texting me today, DstepD told hm that I didn't want to directly communicate with him.
Although I still think I should leave the copies of letters in the box of photos for him to find and send them to OW!
Missy, don't second guess yourself. YOU know you couldn't handle trying to Plan A ESPECIALLY with the blantantly cruel WH you have.....(honestly I am not sure which is worse a WH who lies about the affair and all that entangles or the WH who crams it down your throat without a single regard...... I will say it all just pi$$es me off!!!!... ). Plan A is not for everyone, and it doesn't mean you are not strong or beautiful or worthy. Ya know, Mel is one VERY strong capapble woman, but she is very ADAMENT that she could NOT do a Plan A if her H was to cheat. She didn't with her last H and she didn't with her current H. And there is NO SHAME in that. So TRY on to question yourself with the "what it's"....
Instead, focus on YOU. What are some things you enjoy that got put to the wayside? What are some things you've always wanted to do but haven't? What are something that sound interesting that you never got to explore?
Make a "Bucket" list and then start doing them.....brainstorm without abandon!!!
Also, fill up your time...... Nothing is more depressing than sitting around doing NOTHING......
Do some volunteer work. Maybe spend time with elderly.....Become a Big Sister...... Work some weekends at an Emergency Childs shelter.....OR..... Do some work at a Animal Shelter. You could organize a donation drive for them. Set up a booth at a local store seeking donations for pet supplies, food, old towlez and blankets......
Just stay ACTIVE!!!!!!
I'll be praying for you.....love ya bunches.....Not2fun
Thanks for the support Not2fun, it is much appreciated
I just wanted to remind him of how he felt and the fact he is now saying the same identical things to OW - that maybe the problem is with him.
I guess I thought it would all somehow still work out, I am still secretly hoping that. I know Pep would respond with something like "hope and wishing isn't going to save your M, you need a plan and stick to it"
I think it is best to stick with plan B. He still is texting me today, DstepD told hm that I didn't want to directly communicate with him.
Although I still think I should leave the copies of letters in the box of photos for him to find and send them to OW!
MM
My first instinct also said to mail them but when I sat back and thought about it it changed.
These may be a valuable tool for YOU down the road here. Your in PLB now and to send themn is communicating which you said you were not going to do. Actually it may help them to unite further against you. A LB.
A better opportunity may arise down the road where these may be instumental if-AND ITS A MIGHTY BIG IF-Your WH shows an interest in saving your M. Im glad you decided not to send to anyone at this point even though I totally understand your feelings.
My first initial feelings told me if they were mine I would be tempted to put them with force somewhere bodily on the OW or WH but we cant let run away feelings control us here.
Your doing great at this point. Keep posting and maybe the right situation may present itself. Keep thinking about the long range plans rather than the feelings of the moment.
Its hard not to focus on the feelings, I feel "stuck" in those and tearful for what has been lost. I have not sent the letters to anyone. And it is hard to hear "if and ITS A MIGHT BIG IF, that WH would ever come to his senses and decide to work on M". That seems to be the thought continues in my head. Part of me wants to move forward, the bigger part is continuing to hold out hope for the break up of the A and WH to want to recover M. So, I remain in PLB, mainly because I don't really know what else to do. It is the least painful path right now. Thanks for all the prayers.
Mymissy-That's exactly it. Plan B is the least painful place for you right now. It is going to lead you to GREATNESS. It is part of the grieving process. It is the way you move forward.
I read some old facebook messages from my WH right after I found out about the "friendship" between POSOW and WH. Well, in those he said he wouldn't leave me and we could get past all of this. He said she didn't mean more to him than I did and that I had nothing to be jealous or afraid of in her. Well, at least he was right about that. I am NOT jealous of her anymore and I AM better than her FOR SURE. It hurts. It sucks. Wayturds suck azz.
I have not made my bucket list yet, I have been to busy moving and with work. I am not sure any love or hope is safe anymore, it just seems to be eroding. I went out to the house today to let the dogs play (which I can let dogs out), but all other access to the house has been cut off. He has changed the locks. Hmmmmm....I am pretty sure that legally I am still half owner of the house and property. Whatever...I moved and I guess I don't really need to get back in. Its just the pettiness of it all and he just keeps it up. What is the point. I hope he and OW end up miserable and hating each other. And your right not2fun, hope is not a plan; hope seems to be dying. I guess my only plan is to move forward with my life and stop whining and crying (if only it were that easy). For me it is hour by hour and day by day; which I guess is better than moment by moment. I planning several vacations for this year, they won't be able to start until in June, but then I plan on having some fun.
I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all the prayers; I received the test results today from all my scans. NO metastasis...YEAH. My scans were clean!!!! So at least I can put that behind me; and today has been a good day so far. I have been very busy and have had my first day of no tears. So I feel as though a(at least today) I moved forward from minute to minute and moment to moment....to day by day. I guess that is at least some healing, for me anyway plan b is helping. Thanks again to everyone and their kind thoughts and prayers.
Oh Mymissy I am SUPER GLAD to hear that. Relish in this moment. Love it. LIVE it. I am glad you are having a good day. It will creep up again, but then you will know that you eventually will get there again.
today has been a good day so far. I have been very busy and have had my first day of no tears. So I feel as though a(at least today) I moved forward from minute to minute and moment to moment....to day by day. I guess that is at least some healing, for me anyway plan b is helping. Thanks again to everyone and their kind thoughts and prayers.
So happy for you. I am so glad to se you in plan B and on your way to stringing more and more tear free days together and dare I say it perhpas happy days ahead.
NOW you can get on that list......nothings stopping you now....
I made a similar list. I had on it.....
Learn about photography.....taken 2 classes Go to Paris.......still on the wish list Get a facial......did that Learn a new make-up style..... Take a tour of Italy......
See the world is yours for the taking right now. So make the list with abandon.....as if money were not an issue. No matter how big or small.......this list is ALL about YOU!!!!!
I sold someone a card today that said, "Happy 90th Birthday." I looked at the lady(in her 60s) and said, "I am going to get one of those." She said, "That's going to be a long time from now." I said, "Yep but I plan on getting the 100 one too so it won't be as long."
Live life. Learn. Find Happiness in things(not stuff). That is what I am aiming for.
Thanks to everyone for all the well wishes; I have some good days and bad. The bad days - it is the overwhelming sadness, loneliness, and feelings of something lost. But those days at least are no longer all day every day - thank god!
I spoke with OWH and found out that OW was asking about my health; WH must have seen my testing show up on the insurance - then told her about. Yet, he does not ask me.
I have not heard from WH in a week, today he emailed and texted regarding switching vehicles. I replied briefly, stating that I would leave vehicle outside. When he came by, my dog wanted out to see him. So (like an idiot) I opened the door. There was almost no exchange between us, when I saw him - I have to admit I did not have the feelings that I thought I would have. What does that mean???
After he left he sent me a text stating that he would be happy to take my dog for the next 2 weekends while I am out of town, and to "take care". I believe he thinks that I am going out of town for cancer testing. Myself and OWH have decided to let both of the WH's think that - why not throw a little more guilt into the mix.
Even though I did not have the butterflies in my stomach when I saw WH today, I still feel as though I would be willing to try and work on the M. Maybe that is a pipe dream???? I know longer understand my own feelings or even what I am supposed to be feeling. Life has become so very different so very quickly. I wish I had great answers and how to respond and feel. I would like some closure, but I somehow don't think that is going to happen. Part of me for a moment felt guilty about going after all the things that I am demanding in the dissolution. But then I thought, wait a minute - I am not the one who betrayed the vows. So those feelings of guilt went straight out the window.
Still looking for that script to follow.
I guess overall I still just feel "lost"; I lost my best friend and husband - I spoke to him more times a day than anyone and now it is all just gone; and I still feel as though somehow I am at fault. Mentally I know it is not my fault, in my heart it all still just hurts.
I continue to plod one foot in front of the other. And not2fun I have signed up to take a pottery class - something I have wanted to do for a long time, but just never had the extra time.
I also continue to just pray, pray that somehow this will all make sense to me.
You should not be seeing/talking/exchanging messages with your WH at all.
He NEEDS to know what his life will be like with you TOTALLY GONE from it.
YOU will feel better a lot faster if you DO NOT break your Plan B.
You need to be dark as midnight.
((((((Missy))))))
Am I not already gone from his life? It seems as though he cut me out of it the minute he made his choice to "date" OW in front of me. It is very hard to remain in the dark, I knew today I shouldn't have opened the door; I just couldn't help myself.
You will not be gone from his life as long as he can text you or call you or drop by to see you whenever he likes.
He needs to suffer the LOSS of you.
BTW, Pep...thanks...just wish I'd been smart enough and strong enough to take the advice back in the day!
Thanks for all the advice, I hope that someone else reading this thread will be able to learn something from it. It has also helped me to write this all down, part of it here and part of it in a journal. I will continue to try harder to be dark, but you are right; it seems as though he does think that he can text, email, or drop by when ever the thought strikes him. It all still seems unfair.
Well, just to let you all know I have remained dark since opening the door 2 days ago. Yet I am unable to stop thinking of WH and trying to analyze it all. Maybe if I put money in the pickle jar for every thought I had of WH I could then buy myself a new Marc Jacobs purse and not feel guilty.
Hey hands off the LOONIES in my PICKLE JAR. What has Pep created? HEHEHEHEHEHE
This is what happens whenever Plan B is broken. At least that's what I was told and that's what I have experienced. That's why I was mad at myself for breaking Plan B and knowing what it would do to me.
So as I am reading Mimi's thread, I see that she and WH keep breaking the Plan B. I realize that my WH thinks he can stop by or text me whenever he wants; but because it is so far and few between should that concern me that he doesn't really care. He still cannot look at me or talk to me face to face. I found that out the other day when he switched cars and I opened the door. He can only communicate via email or text; and that is really not that often. I guess now I need to put loonies in the pickle jar.
Keep reading. Have you reached the end of the thread yet? It is an interesting read. As I was in PLan B, I also remembered that Mimi broke Plan B a few times. I was starting to wonder if that was a good thing. If that was part of what you did in Plan B. I also remembered that although these posts were a while ago, I felt like they were happening NOW. WHen Mimi broke PLan B, I felt bad for her because of the tailspin and "fog" it put her in. That is one of the reasons I have tried to stick to Plan B as DARK as possible.
And HEY, if everyone starts the pickle jar, the Mint is going to have to make more LOONIES. HEEHEHEHEHEHE
Well I have managed to stay completely dark, it is so very hard; and that jar is going to get full soon!!!
No Scotty, I have not made it to the end of Mimi's thread yet; had to sit through 2 day conference this week and then again next week for work, so busy with that. I do plan on finishing it sometime this weekend. And you are definitely right, breaking plan b just brings it all back. It at times seems easier to be dark; I know I can at least breathe again, but then I am dying to know what is going on.
Myself and OWH (although, have not talked to him in a week) think that reality will start to set in as of next week. Supposedly OW was moving out to small house this week, WH and OW had plans to go out of town this weekend; then she is a single mom (OW and OWH will be doing shared parenting with OW as residential custodian), so she will have children approximately 60-65% of the time. OWH says she won't be able to handle it. I feel bad for the kids, OWH states he will be ready to pick up the pieces when it all falls apart. But feels he cannot stop the inevitable at this time.
Most people who know me and WH tend to believe he will want me to pick up his pieces; I am not so sure he will admit that to me. If his guilt is preventing him from even looking me in the eye and speaking face to face, is he ever going to admit he was wrong.
But I suppose for right now that is magical and wishful thinking on my part.
Spoke with OWH today, (I know, put loonies in the pickle jar). He has stated that OW's true nature is starting to come out. He was also told by his MIL that WH has told OW that "he has already raised his children and does not want to raise hers". (I wonder what happened to "I know your a package deal") OWH thinks my WH is now just stringing OW along for fun. WH plans on switching vehicles with me again in a few days, I know someone said an opportunity may present itself for using the letters I found that he had written to me when we were dating - should I place a copy of one of those letters in the car for him to find?
WH has told OW that "he has already raised his children and does not want to raise hers".
Whoa ! This is not "soul-mate-speak". It's 100 % freeloader-speak !
Quote
WH plans on switching vehicles with me again in a few days, I know someone said an opportunity may present itself for using the letters I found that he had written to me when we were dating - should I place a copy of one of those letters in the car for him to find?
WH has told OW that "he has already raised his children and does not want to raise hers".
Whoa ! This is not "soul-mate-speak". It's 100 % freeloader-speak !
Quote
WH plans on switching vehicles with me again in a few days, I know someone said an opportunity may present itself for using the letters I found that he had written to me when we were dating - should I place a copy of one of those letters in the car for him to find?
So as I am reading Mimi's thread, I see that she and WH keep breaking the Plan B. I realize that my WH thinks he can stop by or text me whenever he wants;
Did you also read where Mimi figured out that every contact just prolonged the affair? Her H's affair was PROLONGED because of the occasional contact. See, your only hope is to yank your WS off the fence. That can only happen if he doesn't have any contact with you to get his FIX. Every time he has any contact [via phone, email, text] he gets the fix he needs, and the REASSURANCE, that you are there and available so he can go out and have fun for a while longer.
Go read up on what happens, though, when a BS goes into a truly DARK Plan B. The WS GOES NUTS when he can't get through and the affair goes into free fall. A seemingly disinterested WS all of a sudden perks up and senses that his affair will crumble if the OP is required to meet all the needs that were being met by the BS. He goes crazy trying to get the BS back on the farm. Which causes huge conflict in the affair because he gripes to the OP about you. Additionally, this causes him to raise the bar on the OP and demand that she meet all his needs. That causes more conflict and resentment in the affair.
So be assured that every time your WS gets through prolongs the affair a little longer and minimizes the chance that you will get him back any time soon.
This is why it is absolutely important for complete and total darkness. A halfassed Plan B is worse than no Plan B at all.
So as I am reading Mimi's thread, I see that she and WH keep breaking the Plan B. I realize that my WH thinks he can stop by or text me whenever he wants;
MyMissy, have you changed the locks? I would change the locks and just delete his texts without reading them. Then have your intermediary email him and tell him that his text was not read and to channel any communication through her/him. After a few rounds of that, he will get the message that he can't communicate directly.
Your right of course. Way, way, way too early for an olive branch. I also agree that it is another way of getting hurt. I just had this spark of hope and wanted to push it. Thanks Pep for reigning me back in. Thanks to you also ML for the smack of sanity as well. And since I moved out and have my own place, WH does not have access to my home. He knows that I do not want to communicate with him, so the texts and emails are far and few between. Should I get another one though I will contact MIL to relay any message and not respond. The arrangements to trade vehicles have already been made and all I have to do is leave car outside; we both have keys to each car and he can simply trade them. I promise this time to not open door. I actually plan to not be here. So, my plan tonight, now that I am back home and unpacked - is to finish reading Mimi's thread. I have more to learn and understand about plan B. Again, thanks guys for making me think a little more clearly! (I think even the BS can get a little foggy)
We have an SUV and a car; they are company vehicles, and the SUV has a trailer hitch to be able to haul our trailer. He needed the SUV (which is the vehicle I usually drive) to haul some stuff. Both need to go in for some warranty work and the normal maintenance. These things are done at his place of work. So that is the reason for the back and forth right now. Previously it did not matter, I usually never cared which vehicle I drove, he would just take whichever he needed and I would drive the other. I am going to continue to drive the free vehicle for as long as I am legally his spouse. I don't want to have to purchase a car until I have to.
Well I have made it through another 10 pages of Mimi's thread. Obviously it is going to take me a little longer than this weekend to read it all. All I can say is WOW, I feel like I could be writing much of that. My feelings are the same, my fears are the same, my insecurities are the same. I have tried very hard to place this in God's hands; many of my friends and family have told me that I am better off without him; and that I would be crazy to even consider reconciliation. I am going to stick with MB and all of your advice; I am going to stay in a dark Plan B, if we are meant to be then I will face that decision if/when it happens. Again thanks all for reigning me in. OWH says that now the A is out in the open and I have moved to a dark Plan B - their texting, emails, and phone calls have significantly decreased, he thinks the fun is starting to go out it. I still have the same fears though, and that is why this weekend has been so hard; I know that they are away together this weekend. And I am still sad and lonely
As you stay in a deep, dark Plan B, your WH will be looking to the OW to meet ALL his needs, since you are no longer meeting them.
At the same time, with your moving out, the OW may feel that she has "won", and so, her taker will feel free to come out. She will expect your WH to meet her needs/wants, now that she feels like she's reeling him in.
I'd be willing to bet that she pictures them and her children as one sweet little happy family...and that she will expect him to do "his share" of child care...spend time playing "daddy"...replace the children's own father, and this isn't what your husband wants to do, at all. Hence, the remark about his raising his children and he wasn't going to raise hers. Oh, sure, he figured that she'd be bringing her children with her, but he was NOT figuring on having to take care of them. After all, she is their mother, and they already have a father, don't they?
Unless your WH is a complete idiot, I'm sure he understands that he probably can't afford the fancy house I think she is wanting, too. Hmmm...wonder what's gonna happen when he finally tells her that the fancy house ain't happenin'?
So, keep reading Mimi's story and stay pitch black dark. Take care of yourself and get some enjoyment out of life!
Oops, fears: What if I didn't do a good enough plan A (thought I did). What if the last 4-6 weeks I was in the house with him and we were not speaking is what he remembers instead of the Plan A'ing I did. What if his guilt or his pride gets in the way. What if WH and OW don't end things. What if....What if....What if..... I know - stay dark and put more loonies in the pickle jar. I feel like all I do is wah, wah, wah, sorry.
MM Just wanted to stop by and say Hey! I still read along and see you are in very good hands.
I share in this with you
Originally Posted by mymissy
Oops, fears:
What if WH and OW don't end things. What if....What if....What if..... I know - stay dark and put more loonies in the pickle jar. I feel like all I do is wah, wah, wah, sorry.
Your taking care of yourself. Thats most important. Obsessing about the OP is sooo hard to break. Your doing way better than I.
Well, I have to say at least the place I obsess about WH and OW is here. This is where I vent and cry the most. I try not to let kids see or hear anything in my voice, but have tried to remain a source of stability for them. Again, this is a hard and difficult place to be in. My magical thinking still wishes it would all go away. I keep telling myself that God has a plan, I just don't know what it is yet. Hope it is something great!!!
This is the first Sunday since moving out that WH has not attempted to contact me via text or email..... I have to admit that I am terribly disappointed. Hear come those fears and obsessive thoughts again.
This is the first Sunday since moving out that WH has not attempted to contact me via text or email..... I have to admit that I am terribly disappointed. Hear come those fears and obsessive thoughts again.
This is the first Sunday since moving out that WH has not attempted to contact me via text or email..... I have to admit that I am terribly disappointed. Hear come those fears and obsessive thoughts again.
This is the first Sunday since moving out that WH has not attempted to contact me via text or email..... I have to admit that I am terribly disappointed. Hear come those fears and obsessive thoughts again.
missy - I was the same way. But when he moved out almost 2 years ago, I knew that he would either 1) ignore me, hoping to goad me into begging him for a few crumbs of attention, or 2) try to contact me once in a while so we could have a nice, friendly, "civilized" divorce. The thought of either one sickened me.
I simply blocked him from my email and turned off the ringers on the phones. I used email to communicate with everyone else, including my job. I got to where I didn't even check voice mail, and I still don't. (You'd be surprised that you CAN get along just fine without it.)
The point is: Since I knew there would be no emails or calls or voice mails from him, I did not spend any time waiting for them. I put up those solid-wall boundaries to protect myself from any more of his crumb-dribbling abuse, and it worked.
I don't even look at the drivers of other cars when I am walking or driving, especially if those cars resemble the ones I knew he had. I just don't want to know. There's simply no point in it.
Protect yourself, missy. He's not going to protect you, so that leaves you.
Sorry Mulan, I have not yet brought myself to the point of blocking his emails yet. However, this morning when I did receive one from him regarding switching cars; I had my brother (IM) respond for me. So, YEAH I was finally able to not respond to an email or text. 1st step.
I am just not sure what to think of this email, each one (and they are far and few between) adds just a little more information about stuff at home. Here is the email he sent this morning - anyone care to interpret:
"Good morning. FYI: The car is being serviced today. The suv is scheduled for Thursday. I can trade with you tonight or tomorrow night which ever is more convenient. Our paper work is still stuck with my atty. I think. They are having some difficulty finding a value for the pension as it has no value until I retire. Dog 1 and Dog 2 are doing well. They are scheduled for grooming and shots on May 3rd. Going to get Dog 1 trimmed for warmer weather. DS24 helps take care of them when I am away so they are rarely alone. I hope all is well with you and your travels to Columbus are nothing serious. Take care and let me know about the car thing. Have a good day."
????? I believe he thinks I am going to Columbus for additional CA testing (he must have seen the stuff on the insurance), I have never stated why I was going to Columbus, It is for a seminar at work.
The trick is to be DARK and not to have any expectations from Plan B.
You just know that you want away from the drama and want to be in a place where you are not exposed to the active cruelty and disrespect of the wayward.
It does take time to work through this in plan B for yourself.
At first you want results and to stay connected in many ways.
hmmmm......makes perfect sense. Not the answer I wanted, but then again nothing is as I wanted it. I will continue to try harder to let go. I am actually proud of myself for not responding to email, it was very hard not to.
Plan B was difficult to stick to at first, but after a couple of "brushes" with contact and the resulting emotional turmoil caused by them, I have managed to stay completely dark for three months.
The difference is overwhelming. Not only am I sleeping and eating normally, but my friends tell me how much better I seem to them and how well I'm doing. And they're right.
In fact, earlier today I learned that next week will NOT be the final decree of divorce and that it might take a few more months before that can happen.
That news actually depressed me! Six months ago, the last thing I wanted was to divorce my wife. Now it's the first thing.
Hugs back to you ABR, this is very hard!!! I wish you the best of luck.
Thanks for the words of encouragement Fred, I have already had people comment to me that I know longer look like I am on the edge of insanity
So, for me just no longer living in the constant chaos, deception, and drama he created has helped.
I would be lying though if I didn't admit that I am still hoping for a miracle. Part of my hoping he will turn back towards me - means that he has turned away from POSOW.
So thanks for responding to my venting, it does help.
I would be lying though if I didn't admit that I am still hoping for a miracle. Part of my hoping he will turn back towards me - means that he has turned away from POSOW.
That is only a natural feeling, Missy. I too, entertain thoughts that my WW will some day "wake up" and realize the harm she's done and the damage she's caused.
It may happen, but I'm not holding my breath. And I'm not banking on it.
Even if it does, the satisfaction would be short-lived. I wouldn't take her back now unless she first spent a *lot* of time and energy fixing the broken things about her. A minimum of one year of therapy, for starters. And that's just to get to the point where we could even TALK about reconciliation.
Missy, your Plan B will be MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE for YOU if you do block his emails. Just forward them on to your IM, and tell him that you only need to know the logistical stuff and not the chit-chat stuff.
Your WH needs to KNOW that you are NOT reading any of the chatty stuff. Right now, he is still indulging himself with the notion that you and he will continue to be FRIENDS.
Missy, your Plan B will be MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE for YOU if you do block his emails. Just forward them on to your IM, and tell him that you only need to know the logistical stuff and not the chit-chat stuff.
Your WH needs to KNOW that you are NOT reading any of the chatty stuff. Right now, he is still indulging himself with the notion that you and he will continue to be FRIENDS.
SUPER DITTO!!!!!
I will say Missy that you DO sound much more peaceful since the beginning of your Plan B......
Well, thanks for all the words of encouragement. Do bad things happen in clumps????? On Wed. I was let go from my job. So, Fred I now know completely how you feel. It is like everyone is turning against you and the world hates you. I am much calmer now than I was on Wed. night and Thurs. I have already had one interview and offer on Friday morning. So once again I am back to making a plan. I am getting tired of plans, I would like to stop enduring and getting through things and simply live and enjoy my life. Can anyone give some words of encouragement for that. Why does it seem as though many people skate through life and others (like myself) feel as though they work hard, give back, and are caring; but seem to not get a break. I know - you can only know someone else path if you walk in their shoes. It just seems that there are other shoes out there with an easier path to walk.
Ouch! So sorry about the job, but good to know that you've already had an offer.
Things that seem sucky when they happen can sometimes turn out to be blessings. Maybe a new job will turn out to be the job of your dreams...the start of a new adventure! At the very least, it should get you out of a rut!
It is not for us to determine when the karma bus makes its rounds, but just know that it will come by at the best possible time to be effective.
Thanks Hope, I am "hoping" that my plan brings me to a new place in life. And that new place will be a little more fun than the old. The offer I received on Friday was more money, better benefits, and guarantee of hours. My old job did not guarantee hours, it is just more of a drive. I am also waiting to hear from 3 other promising applications. So, once again for me, prayers are definitely needed. Thanks again to all you wonderful supporters here at MB!!!!
The offer I received on Friday was more money, better benefits, and guarantee of hours. My old job did not guarantee hours, it is just more of a drive. I am also waiting to hear from 3 other promising applications. So, once again for me, prayers are definitely needed.
Wow, Missy. MORE money, BETTER benefits, LESS of a drive, ADDITIONAL offers pending, and a GUARANTEE of hours?
Sounds to me like prayers are being ANSWERED....
Not just a new place, Missy, but a BETTER place.....
Why does it seem as though many people skate through life and others (like myself) feel as though they work hard, give back, and are caring; but seem to not get a break. I know - you can only know someone else path if you walk in their shoes. It just seems that there are other shoes out there with an easier path to walk.
{{{{{Missy}}}}}},
I SOOOOO know what you mean. Know what turned that around? When a couple of people told me at work told me that I had a great attitude and my outlook on life was positive.......that they wished they had that outlook on their lives.....
This was when I was in Plan A and H was trying to convince me to go to divorce, boinking OW and being an all-around PITA wayward.......
I thought, "Do I ever have you fooled????"
Great news on the offers though.....I think you getting laid off will end up being an AMAZING turn of events for you........
As a wise woman once told me.....UPWARDS and ONWARDS!!!!!!
Yeah, I looked for that to for a while..I dont think that there is any statistics....but there are some success story threads. And I know there is a few people on here, like Queenie comes to mind, that have recovered after a Plan B. And hers was a long Plan B.
There are a lot of others too, just cant think of them right now, sorry.
Married Forever and Mimi are also 2 that I know of. You know though, the way it feels in Plan B after a while and when I have my Dad and others to compare to, I will pick Plan B again and again. It is hard, but think of the alternative(SHUDDER).
Well, it has been almost 2 weeks (1 1/2) of being completely dark regarding WH. I realize that plan B is more for me to recover and to save whatever feelings I might have; but I really thought that at some point he would attempt more contact than an email or text. What is the point of saving those feelings, when it seems as though he has none. There is nothing....How does someone completely turn their back on the person they have spent the last 13 years with - without so much as a glance back. I still feel clueless. That is my vent for now, still just sad. The job search is still ongoing, I have had another great interview and 2 more for tomorrow. The job I really want - I have been playing phone tag with the recruiter, so I am hoping we are able to speak to each other either Monday or Tuesday.
I have forgotten about MiMi's Story and that Scotty posted it on this thread. I have gone back to reading it. I am now about half way through. I do seem to obsess over WH; I guess it is the overwhelming feelings of being alone. I did everything with WH. But I have done some things for me. I continue to return to my hometown and spend time with my very close friends. Today I even met some other friends for a late lunch and we spent the afternoon talking. I am forcing myself to go out, even though I am not part of a couple. In reading MiMi's Story - it is a validating feeling to know that her feelings (and I suspect most BS's) and mine are almost identical. Fortunately I have been able to steel myself into not driving by the house, emailing him, texting him, or even calling him. It almost feels like who will break first. My fear is that it won't be him....and that is what I want. I know that plan B is all about me, but I still can't help but wonder???? Does he think about me? How guilty does he feel? What are WH and POSOW doing? Maybe he really never did love me? Maybe I was at fault? Maybe, maybe, maybe maybe...... I hate those self-destructive thoughts but cannot seem to help having them.
I have had those feelings and worse. I try not to dwell on them too much and I try to find something else to keep busy. I find that I am most susceptible to those thoughts when I am not busy. I try to keep myself distracted. Also, are you talking about your sitch often to others? Although it helps you, I think talking about it obsessively also keeps you stuck. I understand what you mean about doing EVERYTHING with your WH. I was that way too. He was my world(well behind the kids). It is hard to get away from that. Just keep trying to focus on yourself. Did you get any hobbies? I remember asking you about that some pages back. So anything yet?
I have been to a couple of pottery classes. I try to stay busy, with working out, walking the dog, spending time with my family, and right now - job search. So not a ton of new hobbies, just day to day stuff. But like I said, I am trying to stay busy to keep myself from obsessing to much. It is all just so hard....I know - I'm whining. Can't seem to help myself today. Thanks for "listening".
Whine away. It isn't in a high pitched noise like my DS9 so I don't mind.
I am glad that you are trying to keep yourself busy so you can be more distracted. How about a pickle jar? Then you can do something SPECTACULAR for yourself, like a Spa weekend. Do you have anywhere close to you that has a comedy show? I started watching comedy movies. Things that didn't have anything to do with couples(that is HARD). I slowly started to come out of the rawness and now I can watch more things. I can listen to almost all music now again. Some used to really hurt me.
One trigger for me was listening to music in my car on the radio. Without fail a song would come on that would remind me of better time and places with XH.
I now listen to a Christian Rock station and have not had one trigger since.
Tired of trying to dry my eyes at red lights and getting weird looks from the driver next to me.
Well it has now been almost 2 1/2 weeks since I have received any emails or texts from WH. I could not help myself today and looked at his facebook page. He has removed my name from one of the photo albums with the dogs. It seems as though he continues to erase little reminders of our life together, or is it OW making him erase those things. I don't know, either way it is still like a knife in my heart. I refuse to accept or acknowledge that our marriage was a mistake or did not exist. I keep trying to put one foot in front of the other and move forward with my life, I am closing in on a great job with a great company. So that part will be getting better. But what has been the cost, I guess you can't really have it all. I don't understand why it feels as though everything in life is completely against you at times. But I still believe that everything happens for a reason, I would just like to understand the reason. It is so hard to fight the sadness, what a waste WH has created, what devastation and destruction. DstepD20 has stated that she believes "dad will end up alone and sad". Again what a waste.....
Thanks for all the {{hugs}}, they are much needed. The revelations seem to group together, don't they. OWH called me yesterday and told me that WH brought OW to his nephew's birthday party. UNBELIEVABLE I cannot imagine the look on WH grandparents face, how does his family justify what he is doing???? His own children are disappointed. But then his family is the kind of dysfunction that shows no emotion, never-ever say anything to anyone, don't rock the boat, etc. So I guess why should I be surprised. His mother and sister seemed to have re-visionist memory same as WH. I wonder what they would all say if I copied the many letters he wrote to me, including how much his family thought of me, and sent that to all of them; maybe I could jog everyone's memory.... Just a thought....
I have been listening to many of Dr. W. Dyer CD's, podcasts, and DVD's. I am trying to find the peace and love within myself; and bring nothing but good things into my life. So that is definitely helping my emotional and spiritual aspects. I highly recommend his teachings for anyone who is doubting themselves.
I now have 2 solid job offers on the table and one more interview. This last interview is the one that I really want; but it is nice to know that I am in at least a little demand. The job that let me go will probably regret it down the road, but I have found out that they are definitely having money problems. So probably a blessing in disguise. It was still a blow to my already considerably bruised ego.
Its hard to not be sad most of the time; but I am so grateful that I found this site and there are people here who understand completely the devastation I am feeling. It is good to know you are not alone.
Its hard to not be sad most of the time; but I am so grateful that I found this site and there are people here who understand completely the devastation I am feeling. It is good to know you are not alone.
Hi Mymissy, it takes a long time to overcome the real gut wrenching saddness. There are some days that it comes out of nowhere but I recognize it but don't dwell on it.
Enjoy your weekend. And yes Happy Mother's Day. You have been a mother to his children and it should be recognized.
Well, since you are in Plan B, I think it is time to break contact with OWH. It isn't helping you, it is only harming you. The more often you hear about your WH and POSOW, the more it will harm you.
I am sorry but sometimes the is necessary.
You need to refocus on yourself.
What new hobbies have you come up with?
I think I may learn how to horseback ride soon.
I am glad to hear that you are about to get a new job. I am trying to figure out what I want to do with my life. A new better paying job that is Mon-Fri days would be my DREAM job.
Your right scotty, that is why the calls have become far and few between than they first were. It is hard to hear the stuff. And OWH must stay in contact due to their 3 small children.
The new job prospect is very exciting, I actually turned this company down last fall (WH did not want me traveling more than 30 minutes to job-loser, probably so he could continue to cake eat). But I am so excited to have a second opportunity with them.
When do the horrible images and memories of the terrible acts WH did in the course of his A start to fade??? I went to a friends son's wedding yesterday, all I could think of was WH getting ready in front of me to go out on a date with POSOW for Valentine's day. How does anyone do that to their spouse...I just want some of the memories to fade. Having difficult time with that today.....
When do the horrible images and memories of the terrible acts WH did in the course of his A start to fade??? I went to a friends son's wedding yesterday, all I could think of was WH getting ready in front of me to go out on a date with POSOW for Valentine's day. How does anyone do that to their spouse...I just want some of the memories to fade. Having difficult time with that today.....
Sorry your having an off day. The only way I get past this is to force myself...even if I don't want to. Kinda like taking medicine that tastes bad. You do it cause you have to.
I'm a real introvert so I set up engagements that I know I will keep. Lunches visits, time for DD. In general I try to keep real busy.
I also keep trying to post what I can here and hope someone will hear and see the mistakes I have made and use it to their advantage.
For me I know I have resentment for OM and WW. When I get trapped in sort of an endless loop of replaying old tapes I do three things for myself
1. My phone has an alarm on it. Every day at 3:41 pm it goes off. I say a prayer for both. Sometimes it starts with cuss words and anger because I do not want to forgive and am not ready at this point. If anything if I can't say a descent prayer it helps bring me back to the reality that my goal is that I need to forgive for myself. I don't forgive for the other persons sake.
2. If this does not knock me out of the funk I visulize my HP (God) holding me safely in His hands just like you would a child. I know it sounds foolish but sometimes all we have is our God to comfort us.
3. Some nights I have been so would up I repeat the Serenity Prayer until I fall asleep. Its not just a prayer AA's use for opening their meetings. There is a lot of wisdom in that prayer.
Grandmas short version-What don't kill us will only make us stronger-if we learn from it.
Remember ALIENS took over your H and he is now a WW. Its out of your hands now.
Quote
How does anyone do that to their spouse...
As A FWH: Anger + resentment + a sense of entitlement= Affair
HE IS IN A DIFFERENT WORLD THAN YOU AND I. Without being on both sides of the fence I do not know that I would understand it either. Its a world I never want to be a part of ever again.
Keep taking care of Missy. She is worth it. She'll come through all of this and land on her feet just like others before. It just takes time.
The "triggers" will come out of nowhere and you will be caught off guard. The thing is, the more it happens the less they will trigger you. I know sounds crazy right? Actually, it is part of human nature. It is a part of our fight or flight response. I was receiving these emails before i found MB about managing memories. What it said, in a nutshell, was that our mind is always looking for danger. When things start aligning themselves, we search our memory for an event that closely relates. We then perceive this as a positive experience or a negative one. We tend to remember the negative ones better, because those are the ones we need to learn from and not repeat.
So your body notices this negative event taking place. Is it really negative? Nope, events are nothing until we put our feelings into them. Think about that one. Ever event is NEUTRAL until WE place an emotion on them.
Back to this event. If you see a negative sitch starting to occur, your body starts to react. Adrenaline starts to flow through your veins. You start to make split second decisions of fight or flight. Then your conscious mind catches up with your instincts, and you realize, there is no threat. It is OLD threats. OLD emotions.
The more you go through it and your mind starts to perceive these events as NON-events, the less likely you are going to react to them.
So? You will get STRONGER from these sucky experiences. Isn't that great news? HEHEHEHE Don't worry you will be fine.
Well after 3+ weeks of not hearing from WH I received an email today. "FYI: I got the kids moved to their apartment so I am officially done with the SUV for awhile. However, the oil life is on 30% I can switch with you now or we can wait until its next service. Or we don't have to switch at all. if you want to switch back have your brother let me know. If I don't hear from you or him I will assume you want me to keep it until after its next service. Thanks!"
I want so badly to email back - How can you be so callus, unfeeling, and simply "throw" me away??? How and why??? Now I can't seem to turn off the tears.
So I have a question - I know I am in a dark plan B (sort of, I get the occasional email from WH). How long do I stay there? Knowing that he has gone forward with the dissolution and continues the A; do I stay in plan B until I go to court and then forever? I am not seeing any signs of A ending. I did speak with DstepD today and she told me that WH asks about me every time she sees him. I don't get it, if he is concerned about me why not ask himself? Has this become a battle of wills, he continues his A and sees how long until one of us breaks in terms of any contact? I am starting to think he really doesn't care, but then why ask DD how I am. Very confused and conflicted....
Plan B is not designed to do anything to end the affair. It is designed to let you learn to live again and survive until the affair ends.
And it will end in all probability...
95% of affairs implode all by themselves within two years.
So Plan B gives you time to get through withdrawal from him, learn to be a whole person again and salvage enough of what is left in his account in your Love Bank so that you don't hate him by the time that happens.
A dark Plan B sometimes hastens the demise of the affair by stopping the meeting of any ENs that you might be meeting for him. Usually an affair partner only is able to meet a portion of the ENs that a WS requires and unless the AP turns out to be one of those rare people who can adapt quite rapidly, the PEA rush wears off in a year or so and the incompatibility shows itself and Love Busting starts taking it's toll until the "relationship" simply dies a natural death.
Affairs end for the same reasons that they are possible. Two selfish, self absorbed, self-centered people seldom end up with a sustainable relationship. The reasons to have an affair are selfish reasons and the affair partners can't really provide what each other needs long term. Coupled with the fact that there is no history together, which at first draws them together, means that they really have not very much invested in each other or a relationship with each other. The less that is invested, the less likely it is that the relationship can last.
So that's the technical side of it...
Plan B is for YOU, Missy. It is so that YOU can have some sort of life that is not defined by his waywardness and the drama that follows from that. It gives YOU the chance to create some peace, some personal space and start to find some joy in life once more.
There is not a lot of point in trying to figure out what he is doing since none of it makes any sense anyway. If he was doing what made sense, he would be with you right now trying to show you how much you mean to him. The thing is, a wayward spouse only considers their own selfish desires which change like the winds... He is an addict, Missy. All that means anything to him at all is his next fix. He'll get it from you if you give it to him. If you cut him out of your life entirely, he will have to get everything from his AP. She's not nearly as equipped to provide that as you are so in time he will realize that.
Then the only question will be if you have enough love left for him to do the really hard work of recovery or if you will have decided that it is time to move on yourself without him. In a couple of years you can make a rational decision about that because it will give you enough time to stop reacting to the constant pain of his hurtful behavior.
Either way, if he returns or not, Plan B lets you become stronger, more sure of what you want and what you need and allows you to heal enough that you won't be deciding our of desperation.
Thanks so very much Mark and Nesre, you have no idea how much it helps to have things "spelled" out for me. I have always considered myself intelligent, able to find the positive aspect, and always able to "figure" it out. This has really thrown me, the bad things seemed to keep happening, and I just can't seem to get my feet under me.
Now I am bringing myself back to the spirituality I believe in and have found comfort in the fact that everything happens for a reason.
I have received 4 job offers and 1 has the potential for limitless growth. I am probably taking that one. It means a much longer drive to work but the big picture is worth it. Had the "bad" stuff not happened, well then this job wouldn't be happening either. So that is the positive.
I guess I just keep trying to understand and figure it out; maybe I am not supposed to understand but have faith. That has been so hard to do. Overall I wanted instant results; I think I really secretly hoped that a short plan A would have ended the A. When that didn't happen, I thought a short plan B would do the same. I also realize that I am emotionally in a much better place now than if I had continued to live under the same roof; I can now breathe.
I keep forgetting (probably on purpose) that plan B is for ME. No one else but ME. I have so wanted for him to beg for my forgiveness and reclaim my life, that I have not really worked on personal recovery. But thank you for reminding me. I guess I just am unsure if I can wait 2 years. I keep saying - one day at time - but I am obviously not living it.
Thanks Mark for reminding what plan B is truly for. Again many people on here have said it, but I am not sure I heard it. It is still so hard.
I don't know if anyone saw the Dr. Phil show on Thurs. but he had Cindy Shackleford and Jenny Sanford on. You hear it on this board all the time, but to see it as well - well I am still in amazement that Waywards all sound the same. That the same alien has invaded all of them
Something changed today and I am starting to look at my life from only my perspective; not how it may or may not impact WH.
I hope that anyone new on here may read this and learn from it.
Thanks again, I need to hear this message often!!!!
I have to keep re-reading Mark's post to remind myself daily of what I am doing and why. I think that I (and probably many other newly BS) are so desperate to believe that Plan A and B will provide instant results to ending the A and restoring the M. That no matter how much of Dr. Harley's material I have read that I still wanted those instant results. It has been so hard to digest and force myself to constantly get the kick in the pants to remember what Plan B is about. So I am forcing myself back to one day at a time and attempting to put MY life back together; whatever that means. Thanks again Mark.
Well, after much deliberation and worry; I have accepted a new job today. It will be a much - much longer commute, and the money is the same as I was making. But the potential for growth is limitless and it is a management position. I will be half patient care and half management. It does bring me geographically closer to my family. And down the road I am planning on moving in that direction. This is the YEAH break I have needed for 2010. Thanks for everyone's support.
Faith is believing what you know is true, even when you can't see it or feel it...
I found that when I stopped trying to control the situation that is when everything started to work for me-- mentally, spiritually and financially.
This is great news about the job. New responsibilities, new start, new people. All good on your own personal recovery.
You need to take care of yourself first. You cannot stop the alienation of your wayward. He has to come to his own demise and we can no longer save them.
Thanks for that Hope, I am trying to take care of myself. I have started posting to others, but I am finding that it is easier giving the advice that I have been given versus following it myself.
I am still sad and in shock that the course of events that have happened in my life and happened so quickly. BUT, I am trying to focus on the future and I am tentatively putting half a foot in front of the other. Although sometimes it feels as though I am only reluctantly doing so.
I truly believe that everything happens for a reason, I don't understand the reason for any of this, but I remain hopeful down the road that understanding will come to me. I also remain hopeful that in time WH will come to his senses as well, for now I continue to slowly move forward with my life.
Today was an excellent start for that. I am actually excited and am anticipating the start of a new career journey.
Thanks for that Hope, I am trying to take care of myself. I have started posting to others, but I am finding that it is easier giving the advice that I have been given versus following it myself.
I do the same. I try to give what help I can even though I did not "save" my M but others can learn from my mistakes.
I am still sad and in shock that the course of events that have happened in my life and happened so quickly. BUT, I am trying to focus on the future and I am tentatively putting half a foot in front of the other. Although sometimes it feels as though I am only reluctantly doing so.
It is coming up to 2 years for my own DDay and some days I am still in shock and how I got to this place. Most days I do ok and keep taking it one day at a time. Even when I still run into XH -- it is looking at an alien. He has aged 10 years and has never looked so bad. The last time I saw him I felt empathy for him. Obviously he still has not reached his own bottom but he is spiraling at least alcohol and sick wise these days. He continues to try and live the fantasy with a much less woman. He chose poorly.
I truly believe that everything happens for a reason, I don't understand the reason for any of this, but I remain hopeful down the road that understanding will come to me. I also remain hopeful that in time WH will come to his senses as well, for now I continue to slowly move forward with my life.
There is a reason and we don't have to understand it but God has a plan for us and it is a good one. It is ok to still love your XH but you have to detach from him because it will destroy you. Build the life you deserve and see where that path takes you. Be fearless.
Today was an excellent start for that. I am actually excited and am anticipating the start of a new career journey.
It is exciting news and it will give you something new to focus on while you rebuild your life.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I am working on rebuilding my life according to what I want. For the last 12 years I built a life according to what WH wanted. I have not given up that somewhere down the road the A will end and WH will want to recover. But I have decided that if that happens I will cross that bridge then. For now all the plans that I am making revolve around me. If R becomes a possibility then WH will have to come to me.
Of course as I posted earlier today on NP thread, I am struggling with desperately wanting to hear WH voice. So I think I will go shopping and leave my phone at home.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I am working on rebuilding my life according to what I want. For the last 12 years I built a life according to what WH wanted.
That part I am enjoying even on the days I feel indecisive but I get to chose. Find something new you always wanted to try and just go for it. It will give you a feeling of satisfactin
I have not given up that somewhere down the road the A will end and WH will want to recover. But I have decided that if that happens I will cross that bridge then. For now all the plans that I am making revolve around me. If R becomes a possibility then WH will have to come to me. They are aliens right now. You can't break through that as long as they are with the OP. My XWH is having an Affairage in October in Vegas. Everyone thinks he is nuts and he is pretty much certifiable. They have to come to their own bottom. It is ok to still love the unlovable but we need to save ourselves from their own destruction. Until the dusts settles from the implosion the only thing you can do is stand out of the way. It won't be pretty.
Of course as I posted earlier today on NP thread, I am struggling with desperately wanting to hear WH voice. So I think I will go shopping and leave my phone at home.
It is not his voice you want to hear it is your sane H that you are looking for. If he waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck -- he is still a wayward. If you actually talked to him it will be so unsatisfying it will make you crazy for days. It is a stranger speaking and being controlled by the OW. Blessings.
So, tonight I still continue to struggle with overwhelming sadness and loneliness. I think "I can't do this"! But what choice was I given I am being forced to go through this. I seem to be struggling with anger, resentment, and grief. It all is so unfair. And I am afraid.... Even the exciting new job seems to pale in comparison. I feel like I have to force - really, really force myself to put one foot in front of the other. But again, what other choice is there. I am so tired of triggers and tears.
Congratulations on the new job!!! Might be nice to have a distraction to keep your mind off the Wayward. When do you start?
June 1, so I actually have much to do before then. Hopefully all of it will be a BIG distraction. The new job will be a challenge, something that I can immerse myself in and concentrate on that. YEAH
it is a struggle. You are on the right path even though you walk alone right now.
People here kept telling me "you can do it, you can do it". I thought they were nuts. I am doing it everyday, some days more successful than others (see my post today!)
Nobody wants to be in this club. No one.
Time will be your friend. It is a grieving process. It is okay to grieve but do not expect your H to understand. They are truly out of their minds.
You are so right Hope, no one wants to be in this club - no one. I (for whatever reason) have felt the last couple of days that I am SO alone and have found myself coming here more often. I have been kind of whiny and just keep having the overwhelming feelings of "I just cannot do this" and "how did this become my life".
On a side note, I did read your thread today; Hope3343, you kick azz!!!!!!!
I can only wish that someday I will be able to smack the smug off of POSOW face. But for now, I take the high road and remain completely dark.
I have begun to wonder....I know how I have been able to do the "dark" (with much struggle and support from everyone here), but can someone explain to me how WH justifies just throwing BS away and I feel as though he is not looking back.
I struggle with WH's few attempts at contact, I realize that I have not responded and asked him not to contact me, but still I would think that there would be more attempts on his part.
I am continuing to re-build my life, without him in it. The count down to the new job is on; I start in 1 week. I am planning on moving in that direction in the near future - which will put me closer to my family and friends. Yet I struggle with all of this happening so fast, that there is no closure, I also realize that it is not over - but it feels like it is.
I feel like one minute my marriage was OK, the next minute was my reality was being yanked out from under me, and the next minute he is filing for dissolution; then I moved. There was no discussion, no nothing.
I still want to scream and shout and ask/demand how could you do this and why....... Is this normal? Do I continue plan B until I sign legal separation, then there is plan D/FU.?
And for my WH who seemed awfully anxious to D; this stuff is being held up on his end, not mine....I just don't get it. DstepD says that WH asks about me when they see each other or talk....I just don't get that either.
Yeah, what Mark said. And, although I know that DstepD thinks she is helping you, she should be told that you don't want to hear anything about WH. It send you into a tail spin every time. Think about what it feels like when she first tells you. Feels good doesn't it? Then after a few minutes you start to think about WH more than you have in days/weeks. Then all of your What ifs come flying back. You need to protect yourself. Plan B is for YOU. You are doing great with the NC. You need to fill in the holes in your curtain so the darkness of AFFAIRLAND doesn't make it through to you, it is POISON.
I really really really struggle with that. I want to be able to make sense of it and understand. But once again, thanks for the reminders Mark and Scotty.
I guess I never really thought about the process that I go through when DstD tells me these things. But Scotty - you so hit the nail on the head. WOW!
It does bring up all the what ifs...
I am starting to have days where I have not sobbed, that is promising. I have gone 2 days now without crying.
I am also looking forward to being back to my hometown more often. I have great friends and support system there.
All in all I keep forcing myself forward, its still hard though.
My input is that we are human and will struggle with the betrayal from our loves. Dagnabit...it hurts! It shocked us! We didn't expect it from the ones who vowed their protection and love. Ugh.
But, we discovered that we can not control others or make them stay the same and true and committed. We can only control ourselves while offering the best chance for the possibility of redemption of the other person to recommit to the marriage.
Each day will get better with dark B though.
You will find that you will indeed self-differentiate and become a truly powerful force to be reckoned with in life. A compassionate, powerful force.
The pain will pass. I have faith in that from all the posters on here who have done Plan B, and survived. You will too. Put on a smile, and keep going. You can do this!
You ask questions wondering why WH does this or that. Do you realize that your actual dilemma is that you have failed to fully realize that WH is a different man from your HUSBAND.
Your questions are invalid, because you really want to know how your HUSBAND could behave in such a hateful way.
He is NOT your husband. While he is WAYWARD he is WAYWARD. He behaves like a wayward because he is NOT your H at this time.
You really don't want this bass turd back, this WAYWARD A hole.
You'd like your real H, the good guy back, if possible.
You can knock on that door a hundred times, your H is not home. Right now, that foul ugly WAYWARD lives there.
Next time you go down this mental dead end road, tell yourself out loud, while looking in the mirror:
HE IS WAYWARD, THAT WAYWARD IS NOT MY HUSBAND.
Until this WAYWARD is replaced by your real husband, there is no point of leverage or influence ..... Because this awful man is a stranger, not your husband.
Until this WAYWARD is replaced by your real husband, there is no point of leverage or influence ..... Because this awful man is a stranger, not your husband.
You ask questions wondering why WH does this or that. Do you realize that your actual dilemma is that you have failed to fully realize that WH is a different man from your HUSBAND.
Your questions are invalid, because you really want to know how your HUSBAND could behave in such a hateful way.
He is NOT your husband. While he is WAYWARD he is WAYWARD. He behaves like a wayward because he is NOT your H at this time.
You really don't want this bass turd back, this WAYWARD A hole.
You'd like your real H, the good guy back, if possible.
You can knock on that door a hundred times, your H is not home. Right now, that foul ugly WAYWARD lives there.
Next time you go down this mental dead end road, tell yourself out loud, while looking in the mirror:
HE IS WAYWARD, THAT WAYWARD IS NOT MY HUSBAND.
Until this WAYWARD is replaced by your real husband, there is no point of leverage or influence ..... Because this awful man is a stranger, not your husband.
I do keep failing to realize that.
What I am questioning is - now that I am in a dark pln B and he continues to move forward with the D; do I ever approach, talk, say no this is not what I want to do, or do a operation olive branch? I know I said many of those things in pln A, but so much feels left unsaid, undone, etc. Overall, D seems to be held up on his atty end, certainly not mine. I am very glad I start new job next week, I have had entirely to much free time. I need to be busy again and not think.
Please don't think I am crazy, but I did a psychic reading. Psychic told me that the cards were reading that I am the boss, should stay married, show/tell him I love him more that anyone else ever could, and that I need to wait it out.
No olive branch for you. You are not near strong enough. Maybe never.
Magical thinking ----> "If only I said (whatever) then WH would realize he loves me."
Drop it. Wishful/magical thinking is what gets you in trouble.
Well, I have to say, that when psychic was telling me "stuff"; my first thought was - hmmm...that goes against MB. I am sticking with MB concepts!!! Your right Pep, I am not strong enough to face that. I would lose myself again. Thanks for being my voice of reason and sanity.
Well today I started new job. Thank God. I will know have something to keep me more busy than just my own business. I had a great day and think that I will really enjoy working there.
At the same time it is kind of sad, I have great things happening to me, but cannot share them with my "best friend". On the other hand, these changes would not be happening if WH had not ripped apart our life.
I believe that "when one door closes, a better one opens"; and that does seem to be the case for me. But what is the cost? I'm not sure if given the choice I would have paid the price.
Well maybe it is good you didn't have the choice then. I am NOT trying to sound MEAN. It is just that you may not have chosen this path for yourself and yu don't know what you need to learn from this ye. I feel lie good thins will happen to you. You are doing SOOOOOO well. Pass me some of your new job mojo will ya?
I believe that "when one door closes, a better one opens"; and that does seem to be the case for me. But what is the cost? I'm not sure if given the choice I would have paid the price.
It's good to hear things are looking up for you, Missy. I am in the same place as you (except that I haven't found a good, paying job, yet).
Your post reminds me of the saying, "If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans."
Given the people who have come into my life and the events that have taken place since my marriage was firebombed, I can only believe that God is doing for me what I cannot do for myself.
No problem with the t/j Fred. Mark those are fantastic, keep them coming.
A long time ago, I found myself on a path of self discovery and "enlightenment"; then I met WH and married him and much of that got sidelined. I have found that path again.
And great things are happening for me, I had a 2nd fabulous day, I have not been this excited about work and a job in a very long time. It is why I went back for my graduate degree. I had become very burnt out and bored with my own business. My last job must have ended for a very good reason because I was definitely miserable there, but with all the drama going on I would not have looked for this opportunity.
In this economy I feel very blessed to have this opportunity and it will definitely lead me down a much more interesting, financially rewarding, and fulfilled path.
I thank all of you here for helping me stay on this path, some days it is sad and lonely, some days it is downright hard and miserable, and some days have been good or at least OK. Not sure I could have thought that 4 months ago, I cannot believe that it has been 5 full months since Dday. I feel like it has flown by and drug on and on. I am still not sure where this is all leading, but now I feel like at least I might survive. I still don't like any of it and wish much of it away, but like I said, I think I will survive.
I have also re-discovered what wonderful friends and family I have. I did not realize how much WH had managed to isolate me through the last several years or how much I had bowed to "his life" and had not voiced how unhappy I was on the inside.
I hope this gives a newly BS some semblance of sanity that it will be OK down the road.
Well I had to force myself to re-read what I wrote only 4 days ago. I did have a great week, but the weekend has been not so great.
I don't know if it is because I have more time on my hands or because I am back in the same town. (during the week - for a few days, I am staying with my family - closer to job)
Is it triggers, is it my own sadness and loneliness, is it what...??? I just don't know. What I do know is that I am sad and tearful. I am sad for everything lost.
I am desperate to reach out to WH; to tell him how I feel, to yell and scream, to let him know what I think of him and POSOW. But I manage to stop myself and stay dark. I want to call POSOW and tell her what I think of her. But again I manage to stop myself, stay on the high road, and stay dark.
It is SO hard. So I come hear to read what I need to and to vent.
I also find myself questioning what I am doing? Am I moving forward with my life without him in it? Am I in a terminal waiting pattern - waiting for the A to end and for him to come back? Am I waiting...for what...? Please don't misunderstand; I do realize what pln B is all about, these are just my own unsettled thoughts.
Part of me is desperate for my life to not be in turmoil and to simply move on and forward; part of me is desperate for things to just go back to "normal"; part of me realizes that I was deep down very unhappy; part of me is excited to redefine all aspects of my life according to what I want (not what WH wants)
But I m scared, scared of what the future is going to be, scared of being alone.
So again I find that the best thing for me to do at this time is nothing - I am trying very hard to just stay in the moment and allow this path to unfold. But as I have said before - it is SO hard to do this.
MM, Take one step at a time and deal with each punch one at a time. If you start to think of all the what ifs you will get overwhelmed and more depressed. Look forward to taking care of you and doing things for you. The best revenge for WH is you being the best you can be. Sorry for what you're going through.
I have been in B a few months longer than you and remember the stage you are in very well. I didn't like it at all.
Staying very dark is the key though. It is sanity and you will work through the stages of grief to create joy. Staying dark and working on refocussing on yourself is key to getting through that yukky state of B quicker. You still have to go through it but it will be quicker if you stay dark.
I have gone through a continual development into a stronger and stronger and better person due to B. Really. I am seeing things more and more clear with the process.
I still want my marriage to recover one day. I have love left for my WH.
My favorite line to think of when I am filled with that angst you mention(much more fleeting nowadays), is one schoolbus posted to New Petals a while ago
"Plan A is a time to show the best side of yourself, to make the WS see the BS as the best choice.
Plan B is to close the door behind you, not allow the WS to look inside that marriage at all- no peeks at the BS, no fixes, nothing, so there is no chance to remember anything but that last look at Plan A. Plan B is for the BS, to protect that love so it does not vanish in anger and frustration, so it does not erode from the constant waves of pain and lies peeling at it by the WS."
Good days AND bad days? You bet. Believe it or not, you had good days and bad days BEFORE this hornet's nest got rattled. Maybe WH was there to help you navigate through those rough patches, but you know what? You're doing it ON YOUR OWN now. And THAT gives you strength. THAT builds character. THAT, Missy, is a good thing.
Scared for the future? I know. Well, make it what YOU want it to be. You're already doing it! You have a great new job that will become the foundation for rebuilding your life in a manner you see fit - which color to paint the walls, which movies to see, which places to visit.
You are moving forward. It's a big world out there, Missy. Just be open to the possibility of experiencing it. Do not let his horrible choices hinder your ability to TRULY be a participant in it. You control your world. If WH wants to continue on his path, there's nothing you can do about it. My WW has chosen HER path, so I live on my terms. Better in certain ways? Sure. Worse in others? You bet. All in all, though, it's just different. And it will get better.
'Good days and bad days'. NOT 'Bad Days and Worse Days'....
I agree with Pepper. I never minded being alone because there were many times that we both traveled for business and I was perfectly capable...but Lonely is a whole other can of worms.
We are both very capable woman but what we miss is our lives. My XH A started 2 years this month and they are still going strong and still having their Las Vegas Affairage in october.
It hurts but we can't force them to want us. As long as they are involved with these OW they are closed off to us and don't care what we have to say.
Mymissy you are trying to talk to the man your WH is --not the man he is now. You are better talking to a squirrel in the park who will get more out of the conversation then he will.
I understand the weekend thing. I used to call Friday - Funky Friday because I would go into such a slump. I would think about XH leaving work and going to OW house and me going home alone. It is better but there are those days.
Love what Mark posted. His scriptures have helped many of us. If anything this disaster has put me back on the right path with God.
Thanks as always for your support Hope, your words always help. This "disaster" has also helped me to re-discover a spiritual path and I find a lot of comfort in that. I love Mark's quotes, they are great.
I don't know what is wrong with me but the last few days have been so hard. Job is going great, but I have been such a crybaby. Then I just read a post that pretty much stated that recovery for my M is becoming more fleeting. That brought on a whole flood of tears.
I am tired of being sad and lonely. Your right I want my life back. He had no right to take it completely away from me. But here is the irony, I don't want THAT life back. I would want WH back in a different capacity. Can that happen, I'm not so sure.
So many people try to be supportive, but I think that the only ones who truly understand the devastating pain are the ones here and those who have been through it. So many more don't understand.
I absolutely "get" what you are saying. It is time to grieve the life you once had. You WILL have a better one. We ALL will. Some of us will get our WSs back(although they will be FWS, not this ALIEN that is currently occupying their minds), some of us, sadly will not. Even DrH says he can't tell you which ones will make it and which ones will not. Just keep doing anything that goes along with your Plan B and you will get there. I feel stronger everyday. Even though there are some crazy moments, it goes away.
Coming here is like coming home. It's safe and we know we will be understood. I thank God every day that I found this wonderful place and all of the wonderful posters.
So glad to hear that the job is going great. That means you are doing well -- YOU.
And we all get those crybaby days. Notice that there are less of them? And you don't cry as long? More progress by YOU. Someone posted once that we get better when we start using a tissue instead of the bed sheet. I can SOOO relate to that statement!
Missy -- you WILL get stronger emotionally, too. Part of the "time heals all" process. And you will get to the point that you can look objectively at WH and say "what an idiot! He left WONDERFUL me?"
I just read Scotty's thread about getting pln B and it being NC to save yourself from the drama of affairland. How hard she struggles with the thoughts and feelings she still has for her WH. I think how much farther ahead she is then I.
I am able to maintain NC only through sheer will and determination and struggle with wanting to break it every day. It still feels like all I think about is WH every minute of every day. I wonder when will it get better. The tears still come pretty frequently, they just don't last for hours now.
Last night I spoke with DstepD20, she will be meeting her father on Sunday for lunch for Fathers Day, she figures he will be bringing POSOW. I asked her why she could be so adamant in her unwillingness to acknowledge her mother's POSOM (she moved out from her affairage to move in with her BF - yuck); yet is willing to allow her father to bring POSOW to lunch.
She stated that she does not want to dislike/disrespect/hate her dad like she does her mother. I told her that stating her boundaries is not hating her dad and that he could either respect her wishes or not. Then she can deal with the response from there.
Most of all I wanted to call WH and tell him to be more respectful of the kids feelings, then call POSOW and tell her to stop forcing herself into situations with the kids, since they dislike her and don't want her around.
I did neither, but I really really really really want to. I keep trying to support kids and not bring to much of my cynical thoughts around them.
I feel like I am tired of being quiet and nice, I want to let out the [censored] in me. But then I wouldn't be dark, not sure what to do at this point.
I still am struggling with accepting all of this.
On a second note, WH filed dissolution paperwork in mid Feb.; we have still not made it to round 2 of negotiations. It is NOT being held up by me or my attorney. I don't understand, if he wanted this so quick - what is the delay?
Part of me thinks - just remain patient, quiet, and dark; let the situation run its course. Part of me is thinking - pay me off and get on with it. I guess this is limbo.
On a third note, job continues to go great, I am very busy when at work and love the challenges it presents. I also take much of my business aspect/paperwork home to keep me occupied and that is when I don't dwell to much on WH.
I really want someone to look in that crystal ball and tell me how this is all going to turn out.
Mymissy. When I see other people struggling with Plan B and getting stuck, and then I see how they have found out something about their WS and AP, I think, "Of course you're stuck." I know that you want to have a relationship with DstepD, the problem is that she tells you things about your WH and POSOW. That is NOT dark. I have removed that from my life(with eception of what my kiddos tell me and even that throws me). When someone says, "I saw your WH at..." I ask them to NOT tell me those things. I explain how that effects me and that it hurts.
I know that you WANT to hear about your WH. You NEED to to keep that connection. It hurts YOU though.
I have MANY moments where I want to call WH. I want to hear his voice. I want to give him a piece of my mind. I want him to acknowledge my existence. I love him and a part of me ALWAYS will. Thing is, it HURTS me. I have realized that when I feel the worst pain is right AFTER I hear something about WH. I am trying to remove that as much as possible.
Did you read how a friend from college, who also attended our wedding and worked with WH at his current workplace saw me on Thursday? I had to tell him about where WH is and what has happened. The whole time, I felt the HOLE rip through my chest. Adrenaline was pumping through my body and I almost started to cry. THIS is the feelings I try not to get. That's why I ask everyone NOT to tell me things. People still do. I have to remind them over and over again. It is getting better though.
Hang in there. Staying in NC is the FIRST most important step.
Hey there Scotty, I have been extremely busy with the new job, I absolutely love it. I am staying between my place and my mothers until I permanently make a move closer to the job. But this way my dog can stay with my mother during the week and is not stuck cooped up for 10 hours at a time.
I am able to have dinner once a week with DstepChildren20 and that is great to keep that connection.
As for WH - well I temporarily lost a little control and called POSOW to tell her to stop forcing herself into situations with my DstepD. Lets just say it wasn't pretty. After that I removed all contact information on WH and POSOW from my phone and placed those numbers on a block. Probably the best thing I had done in a while.
I then contacted my attorney to find out what and where the hold up was. It is on WH side (hmmm...not surprising) However after phone call, he has decided to push forward as well with dissolution. Too bad for him, he is still not offering half. Well I am not taking less than half, so the ball is back in his court.
I am finding that my recovery at this point is all personal and that I have decided to move forward with my life. WH continues to show that there are basic principles lacking in his character, his family has shown the same. I choose to not have that in my life and if he were to come back there would have to be some serious individual counseling on his part and his family would no longer be a large part of our lives.
But that is all a huge "what if"; I am moving myself forward in happiness and joy - period. Whatever that may mean. I found that I was obsessing on this website and so very sad for so many going through what I am going through and it seems to be easier to stay away for blocks of time.
I do like to come back occasionally and check on Scotty and Hope3343 along with a few others.
So, as for me life goes on; I have good days and bad days and I am still angry at how callously WH has thrown away our lives and still very sad at the utter destruction. But I am thankful that I can at least remain a constant, stable presence for the kids. Despite being young adults, they need that.
Mymissy, I am so glad to hear all of the good news. I understand what you mean about reading things on here that bother you and I understand you taking the time away. You need to focus on your own healing. Just check in every once in a awhile and let us know you are okay.
I still need this place and it brings me great joy to help others. Still need some of your new job mojo too.
Take care and check in when you can. There needs to be more people with personal recovery stories on here so the noobs can see that it IS possible. You can be a great example. Thank you and you are still doing GREAT.
Personally I am not doing to bad; still have good days and bad days, but the bad are just becoming moments in a day. Not all day long, like they once were. The good days are definitely starting to slightly overtake the bad. I can say I cry a little less.
I have asked my landlord to consider letting me out of my lease on the apartment; and a similar sized duplex is becoming available in my hometown. My plan is to move to that area where I will be surrounded by family and friends; and be closer to my job. (25 minute drive instead of 65 minutes that I am currently doing)
Job is still going great, I love the challenges I get to deal with on an ongoing basis. It consumes most of my day.
I am looking forward to moving, I miss having my dog with me every evening. I also need to feel settled, where I am at right now is a haven but it is to far from everything in my life right now and I am tired of going back and forth between my place and my mothers. But that stresses my dog less by being with her for the week and me on the weekends.
Unfortunately, skank and WH are still in fantasy land; although it would seem the fantasy is dwindling. POSOW H called me last week to inform me that WH is moving POSOW and her children into my house. I am to the point of not caring (well I tell myself I don't care), but I did tell POSOW H to not let his kids go. She is trying to move them an over an hour away without official custody being established yet or legal separation. WH and I have not signed legal separation agreement yet, hopefully we are getting closer.
I guess what I am shocked about is WH's obvious disregard for these poor innocent 3 little kids. His XW did the same thing to him with their kids when she had her affair and divorced WH; and now he is doing just slightly worse to someone who was his friend. Who is this evil b@$t@rd???
I told OW H who cares what she does, just protect those babies.
I am slightly laughing though, I wonder what happened to the big giant dream house closer to her family. I said all along he would somehow get her down here and that he was never moving from our house. He built it and loves living there. Although he told me that "it just a house and its a house with too many bad memories".
Apparently he likes re-living all the bad memories. I just want to get away, if POSOW is moving to the same town I am in, I am glad I have started the ball rolling to move away from here. I am also still shocked at the complete disregard I have gotten from all of his family. I have not spoken to MIL or SIL since I moved, they have made no attempt to contact me.
DstepD20 and Dstepson20 and I still get together for dinner at least once a week and communicate by phone regularly. Dstepson24 is living with WH right now and does not communicate with me at all.
An A is the gift that seems to just keep on giving and tearing families apart.
mymissy Great you checked in. I have been checking your thread and was getting worried like Mother Hen!
Let them live together. In your case see how fast the fantasy dwindles living together full time with her kids messing up his house.
Good that you have maintained a R with his children. Shows that they respect and love you in spite of their wayward father. For the other son he is probably just kissing his fathers behind because he is living there.
It is a long hard road and we are in survival mode but there will be a time we will strive and thrive.
Oh, my! She's not getting her big, new, fancy house? She has to move into YOUR house? You know...the one where WH has so many memories with YOU!
Ooh, boy! I think she is gonna build up some big-time resentment! Most women don't want to live in a home where a previous wife lived...it's sorta like the house is imprinted with the previous wife, ya' know?
You're sounding good, Missy. I would move back to the hometown if at all possible, too. You'll have more time to actually move on...have some fun and enjoy your dog without spending so much time on the road.
Oh, my! She's not getting her big, new, fancy house? She has to move into YOUR house? You know...the one where WH has so many memories with YOU!
Ooh, boy! I think she is gonna build up some big-time resentment! Most women don't want to live in a home where a previous wife lived...it's sorta like the house is imprinted with the previous wife, ya' know?
Don't I know it, That same house is the one WH built with first wife. Now, thankfully for me she only ever lived there about 3 months. But that never changed the way I felt about the house, I hated that house with a passion and as soon as the kids were done with HS and in college; I started pressing him about moving or building a different one.
So, imagine after living there for 12 years; I had re-done just about all of it and had made it my own. The furniture I left him was the stuff in the basement that was actually mine and had been in MY house before I moved in with WH.
WH is pretty tight with his money and after I get done with him will not be to willing to buy new stuff too easily. POSOW lawyer advised her to file bankruptcy after her divorce. I think she has whined to WH about not being able to make it on her own. That is why she is moving this way. OW H says she is pretty demanding about her home and will be attempting to get WH to start buying new stuff, she can't afford to.
Karma, got to love it. I can't wait to hear about the bitching that will be going on then.
MyMissy, thanx for checking in. You sound like you are doing great.
Funny about the house. Karma is ready to rear it's ugly head.
BUT, (You knew there would be a BUT right?) you WON'T know about any of the drama because you are in Plan B right? Okay, there was the MB talk.
Glad you are taking care of yourself and doing things that are good for you and your new life. Yea, if OW is intending to move to your town, I would GIT.
As always you are right, a well executed pln B is much less painful than the current path I am on. OW H calls again regularly to inform me of what is going on. I am actually looking forward to moving, that will help me more than anything.
My job already keeps me very busy. after moving my friends will keep me equally busy in the evenings. It will be a better pln B for me.
I am slightly laughing though, I wonder what happened to the big giant dream house closer to her family. I said all along he would somehow get her down here and that he was never moving from our house. He built it and loves living there. Although he told me that "it just a house and its a house with too many bad memories".
Apparently he likes re-living all the bad memories.
Just to explain this a little bit, the bad memories stem from the discovery of the A's.
He discovered his first wife and her affairage partner in the house, apparently that did not go well.
Then new years eve the cat was let out of the bag regarding his infidelity with POSOW and OW H attacked WH. All of these things happened in the house. All the years with me, the house had nothing but good times and good memories.
So, yeah Karma is a [censored], but then so is POSOW.
I had a quick look through at your thread and I just wanted to say that I think you have shown incredible strength of character throughout this ordeal. You have been tested in the most horrific way, you have had your moments of darkness and doubt but I really hope you are proud of yourself and of how you have dealt with this situation. I feel sure that the best days of your life are ahead of you (and even more sure that the best days of WHs are behind him - but you wouldn't need to be clairvoyant to see that!) The reason I think this is because you are becoming an even stronger, more aware person. You will laugh and love again.
But I just wanted to raise something that is a bit beside the point. I think it's wonderful that you have such a good relationship with your step-children and it is a testament to the strength of that bond that they maintain that despite how torn they must be. My heart goes out to them. They lost their wayward mother who chose her OM over them and now they are losing their wayward father who is doing the same. They must be so afraid of losing him that they are accepting OW so that they don't end up orphans. IMO, I think you need to Plan A them. Show them that you are a loving parent to them and that you will always be there for them. No relationship talk about their WF and OW unless they initiate it and even then only discuss it from their angle, not yours. I think you are a great person and they are lucky to have you. Be a haven for them. Apologies if I have stepped out of line, this is not really MB territory.
I had a quick look through at your thread and I just wanted to say that I think you have shown incredible strength of character throughout this ordeal. You have been tested in the most horrific way, you have had your moments of darkness and doubt but I really hope you are proud of yourself and of how you have dealt with this situation. I feel sure that the best days of your life are ahead of you (and even more sure that the best days of WHs are behind him - but you wouldn't need to be clairvoyant to see that!) The reason I think this is because you are becoming an even stronger, more aware person. You will laugh and love again.
But I just wanted to raise something that is a bit beside the point. I think it's wonderful that you have such a good relationship with your step-children and it is a testament to the strength of that bond that they maintain that despite how torn they must be. My heart goes out to them. They lost their wayward mother who chose her OM over them and now they are losing their wayward father who is doing the same. They must be so afraid of losing him that they are accepting OW so that they don't end up orphans. IMO, I think you need to Plan A them. Show them that you are a loving parent to them and that you will always be there for them. No relationship talk about their WF and OW unless they initiate it and even then only discuss it from their angle, not yours. I think you are a great person and they are lucky to have you. Be a haven for them. Apologies if I have stepped out of line, this is not really MB territory.
All the best, Tully
Thank you so much and no you have most certainly not stepped out of line. I had not thought about them in terms of a plan A; and I need to remind myself constantly to not bring up their WF and POSOW. I struggle with it every week that we go out to dinner. I have been getting better with it though. Overall, my heart breaks for them and I am trying very hard to be a stable, sane, consistent place for them to be able to count on. I have to admit, some times are better than others. So, I need all the MB friends to continue to remind me. Thanks for the plan A reference it puts it into an easier perspective.
Life has been kind of unfair to them, I pray they will be able to have a "normal" relationship in the future. My fear is that they will always shy away from marriage and commitment.
I struggle with it every week that we go out to dinner. I have been getting better with it though.
It's normal but you will get better and better over time especially if you try consciously. For your own sake too, it's best not to talk about that situation. The focus when you are with them is on your relationship with them, not on any other relationship.
If I may make a suggestion. Maybe you could organise a house-warming dinner for them in your new place where you do something they particularly nice, dress up, look good, have fun and if they bring up WH/OW in the conversation, shrug your shoulders and say 'well, that's life, we all make choices and mine is to move on'. If you have a spare bed/ sofa-bed/ foldable mattress you could even say that you'd be delighted if they wanted to come to stay over sometime to go to a movie/ see an exhibition/ whatever, the emphasis being on fun and pleasure. They will be relieved to see you well and being with you will once more become a relaxed, enjoyable place to be, not a heavy, painful place.
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My fear is that they will always shy away from marriage and commitment.
I think you'll be a good example for them and help them.
Hello everyone, well once again I am terrible at a plan B and slipped.
I can't seem to get past the fact that WH and POSOW actually thought it was OK to start moving forward with her in my house before any legalities have been established or signed including dragging 3 innocent children along for the ride. So, my bad - I sent an email to push some buttons. Here is what I sent:
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[/quote] "WH, Good evening, I wanted to let you know that I received the paperwork from your attorney and have met with my attorney and you should hear something next week. I am glad to see that you have increased your response time to a couple of weeks instead of 8+ weeks. But, let me re-state Ohio dissolution law: "Fair and equitable division of the marital assets and debt". Now given that, you seem to only concede to that law little tiny bit by little tiny bit; it seems as though this is going to continue to be a very long and drawn out process. In light of that information and knowing that I will be needing to purchase a vehicle and probably a house in the near future I would like to conclude these negotiations. If they are going to continue along the current time frame then I feel that in order to save some money on living expenses that it would be in my best interest to move back into the house. I will let you know what I decide. Thanks and have a great evening."[quote]
Its like once in awhile I can't help myself and the angry immature part of me comes out. Apparently I pushed some good buttons, I bcc'd the email to POSOW.
I have days that are good and days that are not so good and days that are just bad. The latest in the drama has set off a string of bad days. I realize partly my fault for sending the email, I think moving will definitely help. I need to be farther removed than 5 miles.
Does the feeling of being able to take a deep breathe and then not crying ever return?
Job is going great; and it has been true for me - that a not so great door closed and an awesome that has immense potential opened. I will be able to have the kind of job and position I have always wanted and worked really hard for. I wish the other stuff would be going as well. But thanks for asking.
I have days that are good and days that are not so good and days that are just bad. The latest in the drama has set off a string of bad days. I realize partly my fault for sending the email, I think moving will definitely help. I need to be farther removed than 5 miles.
Does the feeling of being able to take a deep breathe and then not crying ever return?
Yes there are many good days and then there is the slip into the rabbit hole but they are happening less and less.
Sometimes don't know what the trigger is but I just say I am human, dust myself off and try to make the next day better.
Have good support here and MB friends from this board that I could not never do without!
AAWWWW, thanks for checking in Pep, I like knowing that.
I have had a major breakthrough in one aspect, thanks to Tully putting it into perspective for me. (why are the simplest things sometimes the hardest to get)
I had dinner with DstepD tonight and made myself not mention the wayturds once....YEAH
It was hard not to ask, but in the end I think we had a much better time. I made the evening all about her. I could tell she loved it. We are going to dinner again tomorrow night, one night next week and have a shopping trip planned for the next weekend. I plan to focus on her starting back to school for the fall semester and the new job she just got.
YEAH AWESOME. I am so glad that you are able to disengage from your WH even more. You already know how much better you are going to feel. I will warn you though, the darker you are, any little thing you hear about your WH will throw you. I am just telling you so you can prepare yourself. You will find that you can get over it easier and you will recognize it when it happens. Hang tough and stay DARK. That should be the motto of the Plan Bers.
Well I continue to do well not bringing up WH and POSOW to DstepD; I have also begun to limit my contact with OW H.
I feel as though I have finally started to separate myself emotionally. It does not make it any easier, walking away from the life I have spent the last 12 years building is totally unfair; but I spend less time feeling sorry for myself and crying.
I seem to be able to move forward with making plans for me and I am getting excited about moving. Not the actual moving part; but being out of this town will only separate me further.
I still grieve for the amount of devastation and destruction that has been left in the wake of this affair. I also think that he threw our lives away right at the start of being able to do what we want and afford it and moving into a great new phase. But in the long run he will come out worse than me.
I'm not sure that the deep wound left by this will ever fully heal, but at least for now I think I might survive. I guess that is something.
I hope everyone else out there is at least doing OK. BTW, job is still great. Scotty, still sending you career mojo!!!!!
Happy you checked in and tell us how you are doing.
Each time you post I could feel your strength growing. When this H@ll starts we are broken and lost. Look at your initial entries and you will see how far you have come.
Each step we take forward and sometimes back but we are moving. This is not a journey we wanted but we the BS become the better persons. We change, we evolve, we grow -- while the waywards remain in the cesspool that they created.
We grieve for our M, our spouses, our lives that were shattered and that is ok. It has been more than 2 years and some days the wounds are still fresh. You just have to keep treating the scar and wait for it to fade.
Will we ever be the same? Probably not -- What we pray for is that we are true to ourselves and survive and thrive.
Each time you post I could feel your strength growing. When this H@ll starts we are broken and lost. Look at your initial entries and you will see how far you have come
Amen to the broken and lost part; some days I feel as though I will never get put back together again. I still find it amazing that the affairs from all different walks of life all have the same ring to them. Shouldn't we all be learning something from that?
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Each step we take forward and sometimes back but we are moving. This is not a journey we wanted but we the BS become the better persons. We change, we evolve, we grow -- while the waywards remain in the cesspool that they created.
That makes me sad; but your right I will come out a better person, though I still like to think I was OK before all this.
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We grieve for our M, our spouses, our lives that were shattered and that is ok. It has been more than 2 years and some days the wounds are still fresh. You just have to keep treating the scar and wait for it to fade.
Will we ever be the same? Probably not -- What we pray for is that we are true to ourselves and survive and thrive.
Thanks for that hope, I still feel that I am the only one with any moral consciousness; and by no means am I a saint.
I had dinner with DstepD & S tonight and she mentioned in passing that she went out to dinner for the "birthday dinner". I of course had to ask if the POSOW went and she said yes. (once a year my MIL & FIL took everyone - their children and the spouses out for a big dinner to celebrate everyone's birthday) When did it become acceptable to flaunt your affair partner to your family and out in public like your just a normal couple?
Sometimes I feel as though I live on an alien planet because so much of this crap has been completely unacceptable to me.
Well, I have been reading many threads lately, learning more and more; I have also managed to stay dark since getting the news about the birthday dinner.It is getting easier to not peek into the chaos. (I know, I know, how many times do you have to be told).
I feel better the less I know, I have not spoken to OW H which is also helpful. He manages to stir the pot of emotions. My move out of this town is getting closer; I have had several people express interest in renting the apartment which will get me out of the lease. Closer to friends and family and farther away from WH and his family the better for me.
DstepD and I spent a great day shopping this weekend and no talk of any crap. Just fun stuff; school is getting ready to start in a week. Hard to believe - juniors in college. I am not sure where the time has gone.
As for me, I am still sad many moments out of the day. I can now admit and realistically look at the state my marriage was truly in and the mistakes made. MB's has taught me a lot, I am not sure their is any salvation or R for my marriage; but then since I have finally managed to go completely dark, I guess that is not my current concern. Right now for me I am just trying to continue to put one foot in front of the other and continue to live MY life, on MY terms. Not his or anyone else idea of what my life should be.
I still find myself playing the what if game, and sometimes I am afraid, afraid of being on my own again, afraid of being alone - that is what often brings the tears. But then I have also learned in this traumatic event to turn it over to a higher power and simply trust that it will all be OK. Maybe not as I envisioned but at least Ok.
I still also find myself wishing this was all just a bad dream, but we all know where wishing gets us. And then I try to stick to a plan.
I guess overall, I am doing OK and OK is all right considering how deep the wounds still are.
Thanks Hope, I have been coming here more often lately to vent and read. I am just getting tired of limbo. But I have learned to not peek my head out to much. I checked with my attorney today, it is still stalled with WH attorney. Do they simply try to get you to give in over sheer frustration and exhaustion? Not planning to.....
Mymissy, sorry that you are having frustrations about the D. Who knows what they are thinking. I don't think THEY even know what they are doing. they fly by the seat of their pants and do whatever feels right, at the moment. How can someone live a life like that? not well, I can tell you that.
Thanx for sending the job fairy prayers my way. I will let you know when she comes by.
Well, my attorney still has no word and all seems stalled. I look at an apartment in my hometown tomorrow and my current landlord believes he has someone to rent my apartment which means I can get out of my lease.
I picked up my new car today, so no more switching vehicles back and forth. After I move in a few weeks I will be giving the car back for good.
The new apartment is almost identical to the one I am currently renting and is new; so that will be a tolerable living situation until I decide where and what I am doing and actually buy a house. I am giving myself a year in my hometown before I decide where in the country I want to move to. I am definitely going for a better climate than Ohio.
I am still sad, sad for what is lost. Disbelief for who WH has turned into; and the devastation that has been caused in so many lives.
I am turning my back on the mess and drama and moving forward with my life; I still play the what if game a lot. I find that I am most afraid of being unlovable. Part of me knows that is not true, part of me still can't help but think "what did I do". I guess time will help heal those feelings, maybe.
Thanks Pep and Scotty, I try very hard to not let the negative thoughts in; sometimes its still hard. I have found this to be quite a blow to the self esteem. But I also know that will pass and will get better with time. Thank you for the reassurance
Thanks everyone, again the reassurance is sometimes much needed. I find that I have been coming back here again more often like I did in the beginning. I must be feeling better, because now I feel that I can post to others and offer encouragment and advice. Before I felt too broken to offer any help. Now I am feeling more open and less lost to now be able to help others. So, now it is time to pay it forward; so many of you here have helped me through one of the hardest's times in my life. Pep has talked me through many situations as they were happening. Thank you for that. Someone on here - Hope I believe, compared the A to that of cancer. Well I can say I have survived both. I think the cancer survival was easier. Each day is better though, each step I take that takes me farther away from the drama is better, and the darker I stay the better i feel. I know; And it only took a few months of that for me to get it.
If I am able to offer encouragment through this thread to others great, for me it has been sort of a journaling process. Hope everyone is having a good day, today I am.
Today was super busy at work, which is always a good thing - since it keeps me distracted from the crap. I got word today that my current place has rented and I am being let out of the lease; and I accepted a new place and will be moving again in a month. I am moving back to my hometown, closer to family and close friends. I know it is only going to bring me darker still, which is good; but I feel indifferent. Its just another place, its not home; home was destroyed and now has a POSOW and her kids living in it.
OW H called me recently, said POSOW is using the kids against him and limiting how much time they spend with him. Apparently they do not have anything formal established yet either. What a witch with a B!!! I am waiting for the karma bus to run a few people over, I hope it rolls through soon.
When do you get over the feeling of being kicked in the chest and not being able to catch your breath; I'm tired of that feeling. It sneaks up out of nowhere at least once a day, usually followed by that sad feeling and a few tears.
I still struggle to come to grips with the loss of the person I spoke to 5-6 times a day, every day; and had to have that loss instantly.
Still no word from attorney, what is the purpose of hanging on at this point; why won't he let me go, or is it his wallet he won't let go of?
My missy, it gets better but I find when I start dwelling on the A that is when I start to fold.
Don't beat yourself up. We did not deserve this...no one does. We just never saw it coming. The person we trusted most became untrustworthy and a stranger.
Karma will be when they feel this pain that we went through and it will happen.
I am starting to worry; reading Hope3343 thread and what she now has to deal with. Is my WH stalling the dissolution to hold on to OUR money and keep the affantasy alive for himself and POSOW? A very good friend of mine thinks I should go ahead and sue for Divorce and get the half that is mine instead of waiting for him to concede bit by bit. I need some advice.....
Yeah... I kept waiting for my WH to wake up, too. And the longer he's with POSOW, the meaner and uglier he gets. Actually, he acts more and more LIKE HER.
Are you OK with half of the assets? Remember -- what you don't get, SHE does.
Well, I have to be OK with half, Ohio is a no fault state and the law states "fair and equitable division of the marital assets and debt". But I think I hit him where it hurts the most (wallet) and he is going to have to work until he is probably 70 to now pay off the house, support her (she doesn't want to work), and help her support her three children (because, she doesn't want to work). But I also think that she isn't going to have quite the easy ride she thought. I would like to think STBXWH may start getting resentful of her hand out. However, after reading some of the threads here, I finally realize that I no longer know this person. Maybe he likes slapping money in her hand.
I don't know anymore, I am tired, and am glad this drama for me is coming to an end. I am moving an hour north in 2 weeks, back to where I grew up and am glad to be putting that 60 miles between me and the AP's. I signed a one year lease, and plan on taking that time for me and then figuring out where I want to go. Somewhere warmer in the winter than OH.
Still sad though, MD is trying a different antiD, I am hoping this one will work better than the first two tried. I am tired of feeling sad.
My Missy, no words can express...it is just shocking at the change in them. We all want the karma bus or truck or tank or plane. Crash and burn. Only from the wreckage maybe the phoenix will rise once again.
It is not what we wanted but we learn every day. Blessings.
Thanks Hope, you are right - no words can express...
I keep thinking what happened to the person who kept telling me I was his soulmate, what happened to my best friend, surely the person I trusted most in this world and lifetime could not be that cruel. But my wishes are not the reality, the reality is that he is gone. I don't like the alien that took his place. The alien has no compassion, no empathy, and no conscious.
The destruction is just so sad and worthless.
I did not want this, but I am becoming more confident that a better life for myself will rise up out of the ashes of the devastation he caused. I believe it has to....
Missy, I can't even imagine what you've been through since you first posted in January. I'm glad you have recently got a SepAgreement that you're at least somewhat comfortable with. Personally I have found each one of these "steps in the process" tend to make me feel a little closer to the ultimate goal of detachment (although you know from my thread I have managed to throw myself back a few steps along the way. )
From reading a lot of threads I'm starting to feel that D and A's are viewed and experienced differently from a female perspective. Trust me I'm not ready to switch places with your gender. My heart really breaks for you.
Someone put in my SAA thread a long time ago that "the best revenge is living well." I think when you achieve that for yourself, the next day the karma tank arrives at xwh's door. Thing is, by the very nature of "living well," you won't care anymore what happens to him because you will have detached and moved on. Kind of a paradox.
Thanks Opt, Your right about the gender differences though; OWH said the very same thing. MM wishes for some peace as well, tired of being sad. It is time to heal and move forward.
Well here is an update: I have managed to stay very dark for at least a few weeks; I received a phone call from OWH today. Apparently there had been a small altercation involving words between OWH and STBXWH with one other witness. Well this was reported to administration; they started an investigation - shock - but two stories matched and one did not.
I'll give you one guess as to who is the one lying - your right WH. Much of the A has now been told to administration including WH and POSOW - all day, every day texting and emailing.
WH lied about the altercation trying to make OWH look bad, it backfired. STBXWH is being transferred and will now have to drive about an hour and a half one way. Wonder what kind of damper that will put on the love nest.
Here is my dilemma; I instantly want to reach out and ask - Your life became better when you met me, look at what has happened when you are not with me! Look at the chaos your life is becoming!
I want to do that but I won't. Am I making the right choices by leaving and getting away from here? Am I making the right choices by continuing to move forward? I hate it when I second guess my decisions and choices.
Mymissy, you act as if you didn't hear this info, because frankly, being in Plan B, you should have.
It is FUN to hear these things. It is GREAT to actually KNOW that the Karma bus is running him over. BUT, what does it do for YOU? It does NOTHING. It doesn't change where your WH is and what he is doing. Let karma do it's thing and stay your course. I am GLA that you didn't contact him.
So, how are things going on your end? You feeling good? Are you eating better? Sleeping? Exercise? Just trying to get your focus back to your personal recovery. Maybe calls from OWH should go unanswered now? Hmmmm, me thinks I suggested that before. It really will help you. I KNOW how you WANT to know. Believe me, I know people who would tell me things and I KNOW that all I have to do is ask. Thing is, I understand that when I hear ANYTHING, it derails me. I need to protect myself. You owe it to yourself to protect you too.
Take care. You are a strong and powerful woman. (((((MYMISSY)))))
You can do what is best for you. YOU can only make that choice. I am glad you posted on here first. At least that's a step in the right direction. Progress baby, progress(Quote from my PT). He also always says that the biggest obstacle is always US. You can do it.
So many times I want to call/write/punch/yell at XH but then I picture myself talking to a wall. Behind that wall is a plastic pig pulling the strings.
Can't reason, can't educate, can't change a wall.
When frustrated, angry, or sad come to this board and post. It does help. Let your WH find his own spiral down. It will happen.
Let me put it to you this way, mymissy. How did you feel after you found out about the affair? Was it one of, if not thee most devastating thing that you have ever had to face? What happened when you were at your low? You learned a way to get out of it and you are trying to make your life better.
I know it isn't exactly the same because your WH has done this to himself and you didn't choose what happened to you. I am just trying to get you to see that if someone gets to their low point, they have options and it is up to THEM to choose what they will do.
Let me put it to you this way, mymissy. How did you feel after you found out about the affair? Was it one of, if not thee most devastating thing that you have ever had to face? What happened when you were at your low? You learned a way to get out of it and you are trying to make your life better.
I know it isn't exactly the same because your WH has done this to himself and you didn't choose what happened to you. I am just trying to get you to see that if someone gets to their low point, they have options and it is up to THEM to choose what they will do.
well said Scotland...
Even though it still hurts us we need to let them fall and fall hard. With him hitting his bottom then the only place to go is up. You can't change this but only recover yourself.
Let me put it to you this way, mymissy. How did you feel after you found out about the affair? Was it one of, if not thee most devastating thing that you have ever had to face? What happened when you were at your low? You learned a way to get out of it and you are trying to make your life better.
I know it isn't exactly the same because your WH has done this to himself and you didn't choose what happened to you. I am just trying to get you to see that if someone gets to their low point, they have options and it is up to THEM to choose what they will do.
well said Scotland...
Even though it still hurts us we need to let them fall and fall hard. With him hitting his bottom then the only place to go is up. You can't change this but only recover yourself.
Thanks Scotty and Hope, Well, even though I wavered a little I have managed to stay quiet. I had dinner with my DstepChildren and none of us made any mention of the WW's.
Its sad though, the kids were home from school this past weekend and said they only went to his (our) house for an hour. So many relationships damaged by this......
I continue to pack up again, hopefully this time I get to stay put a little longer; until I decided where I want to go.
But you are all right, I need to continue to move forward with my recovery; and be out of the path of destruction.
I am sure that somehow - his transfer and her issues are all my fault. OWH's made a stand and has pulled dissolution off the table. He is suing her for divorce and custody. They go to court next week. That should make for some fireworks. I have known this for quite some time, but have made no comment to anyone.
I used to hope for R of the marriage, deep down part of me still does. But for now I am focusing on me.
I am moving an hour north in 2 weeks, back to where I grew up and am glad to be putting that 60 miles between me and the AP's. I signed a one year lease, and plan on taking that time for me and then figuring out where I want to go. Somewhere warmer in the winter than OH.
Originally Posted by mymissy
Well, even though I wavered a little I have managed to stay quiet. I had dinner with my DstepChildren and none of us made any mention of the WW's.
Its sad though, the kids were home from school this past weekend and said they only went to his (our) house for an hour. So many relationships damaged by this......
I continue to pack up again, hopefully this time I get to stay put a little longer; until I decided where I want to go.
But you are all right, I need to continue to move forward with my recovery; and be out of the path of destruction.
MM Catching up on some threads. Been very busy.
HOPE YOU keep your relationship with the stepchildren going with this move. The "Alien" (Formerly your H) sure doesn't appear to be having much of a relationship with them.
Your a way stronger person than you give yourself credit for.
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But you are all right, I need to continue to move forward with my recovery; and be out of the path of destruction.
I occasionally get emails from STBXWH regarding the vehicles we share. I am returning the vehicle next week after I move, and have purchased one. So, I just received this email from him.
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STBXW: Good afternoon. Couple of questions for you when you have a few minutes. Please forgive my absent memory. 1) Am I supposed to pick up the vehicle this Sunday or next? 2) I am getting ready to close on the house soon. I assume you will need to come in and sign as well. What day of the week and time is the most convenient for you? If you can give me some idea I can schedule it when the credit union calls. It might speed up the process and allow you to get your money as soon as possible 3) This question you dont need to answer if you dont want but I was wondering how you like your new hybrid? I have to order my car this month and was thinking of getting an Insight. I just wondered how the Civic does on fuel? Does it have enough power? Any way I truely hope all is going well for you. Sincerely WH
Now our anniversary is tomorrow, but I can't imagine that means anything to WH; what is with the "I hope all is going well and the sincerely" BS? Any insight would be appreciated.
I am moving an hour north in 2 weeks, back to where I grew up and am glad to be putting that 60 miles between me and the AP's. I signed a one year lease, and plan on taking that time for me and then figuring out where I want to go. Somewhere warmer in the winter than OH.
Originally Posted by mymissy
Well, even though I wavered a little I have managed to stay quiet. I had dinner with my DstepChildren and none of us made any mention of the WW's.
Its sad though, the kids were home from school this past weekend and said they only went to his (our) house for an hour. So many relationships damaged by this......
I continue to pack up again, hopefully this time I get to stay put a little longer; until I decided where I want to go.
But you are all right, I need to continue to move forward with my recovery; and be out of the path of destruction.
MM Catching up on some threads. Been very busy.
HOPE YOU keep your relationship with the stepchildren going with this move. The "Alien" (Formerly your H) sure doesn't appear to be having much of a relationship with them.
Your a way stronger person than you give yourself credit for.
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But you are all right, I need to continue to move forward with my recovery; and be out of the path of destruction.
Still praying for you
Nesre
Thanks Nesre, Even though it is now 9+ months since Dday; I feel so sad over the loss of so much. everyone's prayers are much appreciated.
Well, today is technically my anniversary. Its kind of bittersweet to know that my M is really coming to an end. I really thought that we were meant to be together forever; I thought we had a strong relationship and marriage. How wrong I was.
I also thought that by now surely things would have turned around, they don't seem to be.
So, without any other alternate choices, I am continuing to pack to move closer to my job, family, and friends.
I don't know if things will implode for them, it seems as though there is a start to a disintegration of their fantasy. But how long will they react to circumstances to keep it going. I don't know; and in less than a week I won't be around to hear or see.
My 13th anniversary is on the 20th. I have made plans to go out with a few girlfriends to watch a show at the casino. I hope you have a good day. You could do something to mark the day. It will ALWAYS mean SOMETHING to you. Not that it matters, since we are in Plan B, but don't think that your WH isn't thinking about you today too. This day is HIS anniversary too. My mom told me that when she was in affairland, she had 2 anniversaries. One of them, she actually went out with my Dad(yea way too weird) and the other one, she thought about him. My parents were married on Valentines Day. She said she would never have been able to celebrate Valentines Day again.
(((mm))) happy anniversary, MM. I was just checking in and wasn't going to write anything but this caught my eye:
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I used to hope for R of the marriage, deep down part of me still does. But for now I am focusing on me.
I was literally just explaining to schtoop about my feelings on reconciliation (in my thread on D board). I don't know if it's healthy or not but realistically I have to admit that yeh, sure, it would be the best scenario for WS to pull their head out of their a$$ and undo all the damage that's been done, and fully meaningfully repent and make reparations/compensations, end contact, go back to working toward being in love, etc, etc. That would be good for everyone involved, there's really no arguing it and SH uses it as a selling point to WS's all the time.
However, realistically, the chances of it happening are extremely slim. Mathematically I think the chances in my particular situation are about one in one quadgragillion to the 10th power. And you know what, there ain't much I can do from my end to make those chances any better. So that leaves only one other course of action:
Thanks Opt, that's funny I was just reading what schtoop wrote on your D thread and how that applied to how I was feeling today.
So much damage has been done; that to try and R marriage would require such an extraordinary effort on part of WH and I agree. It would be one in a million (I don't want to think quite as large in terms you are) chances of that happening. Besides I can only control myself and my own life. I can't change who he has become and what he has done.
So onward I go; sad, disappointed, and heartbroken. Some days not sure that I can do this or survive this; and some days are OK; I can even say I have had an occasional good day. Today not so great a day, but overall I think a tiny, slightly bit better each week and month.
Happy Anniversary, anyway, mm! And BIG hugs. You are stronger than you know - you are such an inspiration. I hope all goes well with your move and I do hope that someday your WH comes around - but if not, I know you will be fine. Go do something nice for yourself today!
Thanks Hope and NP, its good to have other strong women acknowledge the struggle we are all going through.
Today was definitely a better day, too busy at work to wallow in self pity and sadness. This job has definitely been a godsend and help to keep my mind off the sitch.
Thanks Hope, I more often than not - do not feel that way. But its nice to know that what I am showing and demonstrating are strength, my DstepChildren need that example.
Mymissy, when you first got here, I was in AWE of how level headed and rock solid you were. I was simply amazed. You continued to show your strength time and time again. I understand what you mean when you say that you don't see it yourself. Whenever people would say it to me, I would thank them but not believe it on the inside. I KNOW all of the weak moments that I have. I KNOW my lows. The reasons that we are strong is because we keep doing the right things in spite of those lows. It is easier to cave in, BUT it is NOT better for us.
You are a shining example for those Dstep children of yours and it shows by the fact that they WANT to hang out with you. You are an amazing and wonderful person(Hope, you're not too shabby yourself).
Stay dark and keep creeping forward. Even when we crawl, we are getting somewhere else.
Thanks Scotty, it is still all so sad. But forward creeping I go. I move again in 2 days; 60 miles north of A-land. Sunday I will let him pick up the vehicle. He has refinanced the house and in a few days I will sign off on the mortgage. (I won't sign the deed until the D).
He has managed to lose 1/2 of all that we worked for the last 12 years, lost all his friends, lost the respect of his children, halted his career and the upward climb he had been doing, gained 3 very young children and 1 POSOW who has her hand out, and lost the the respect of his co-workers.
I have continued to move forward, unfortunately it also meant going forward with the D, in this case. It has seemed as though every step to try and halt the A, pushed them closer together. I simply thought it best to walk away and allow them to implode when the dust settles.
Did my plan A work? I don't know, but I think it will have an impact later. Did my plan B work? For me yes, I have become a better person. I am figuring out my life, and I am definitely seeking some peace and recovery for myself.
We will come back together, I know deep in my heart I would like to think so; but I also don't know where I will be if that happens.
I am babbling again, thanks Scotty, I am creeping forward and trying to stay dark.
I am moving an hour north in 2 weeks, back to where I grew up and am glad to be putting that 60 miles between me and the AP's. I signed a one year lease, and plan on taking that time for me and then figuring out where I want to go. Somewhere warmer in the winter than OH.
Originally Posted by mymissy
Well, even though I wavered a little I have managed to stay quiet. I had dinner with my DstepChildren and none of us made any mention of the WW's.
Its sad though, the kids were home from school this past weekend and said they only went to his (our) house for an hour. So many relationships damaged by this......
I continue to pack up again, hopefully this time I get to stay put a little longer; until I decided where I want to go.
But you are all right, I need to continue to move forward with my recovery; and be out of the path of destruction.
MM Catching up on some threads. Been very busy.
HOPE YOU keep your relationship with the stepchildren going with this move. The "Alien" (Formerly your H) sure doesn't appear to be having much of a relationship with them.
Your a way stronger person than you give yourself credit for.
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But you are all right, I need to continue to move forward with my recovery; and be out of the path of destruction.
Still praying for you
Nesre
Thanks Nesre, Even though it is now 9+ months since Dday; I feel so sad over the loss of so much. everyone's prayers are much appreciated.
Thought I'd give you my prayer for you...in song.
Please smile...God's got plans for you. You are certainly more than just Mrs. stbxh.
No problem. I know that your Plan A DID indeed work. The fact that it had no known affect on your WH is NOT what matters most. Your own personal strength and growth is the most important part of anything. I wish you the best of luck in all of your future adventures. I can't wait for that moment when you look around and LOVE where you are and who you become. You are amazing and my life is truly better for having met you(albeit online ).
Look around at how far you have come already, by yourself and see the changes. See that even a small change effects the big picture. Celebrate your achievements and your accomplishments. Stay dark and you will get better and better.
I am moving an hour north in 2 weeks, back to where I grew up and am glad to be putting that 60 miles between me and the AP's. I signed a one year lease, and plan on taking that time for me and then figuring out where I want to go. Somewhere warmer in the winter than OH.
Originally Posted by mymissy
Well, even though I wavered a little I have managed to stay quiet. I had dinner with my DstepChildren and none of us made any mention of the WW's.
Its sad though, the kids were home from school this past weekend and said they only went to his (our) house for an hour. So many relationships damaged by this......
I continue to pack up again, hopefully this time I get to stay put a little longer; until I decided where I want to go.
But you are all right, I need to continue to move forward with my recovery; and be out of the path of destruction.
MM Catching up on some threads. Been very busy.
HOPE YOU keep your relationship with the stepchildren going with this move. The "Alien" (Formerly your H) sure doesn't appear to be having much of a relationship with them.
Your a way stronger person than you give yourself credit for.
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But you are all right, I need to continue to move forward with my recovery; and be out of the path of destruction.
Still praying for you
Nesre
Thanks Nesre, Even though it is now 9+ months since Dday; I feel so sad over the loss of so much. everyone's prayers are much appreciated.
Thought I'd give you my prayer for you...in song.
Please smile...God's got plans for you. You are certainly more than just Mrs. stbxh.
Mr. Wondering
Gee what a coincidence, this is my ringtone on my phone! Every time my phone rings people who hear it start to laugh.
It came out when XH would get viral at me in correspondence and I would email back..."I pray for you". Always brought a smile to my face.
A friend of mine sent me this song a few months back, I still laugh when I hear it and watch the video. Thanks MrWondering. Hope, it is definitely an appropriate ringtone.
Thanks Hope, Well I am moved; I am now 60 miles north of A-land. Today I return vehicle for good. No more switching. The peace is kind of overwhelming, also knowing that I will not run into either of them or any of the family is kind of weird. I think I almost got used to that heightened state of drama and now don't know what to think. But now I guess is truly for plan B to go super dark and I plan to work on just me. I have a vacation planned in 1 month with all my friends to Jamaica; which should be a fun getaway. Also, now I can focus more on the job. Thanks for the encouragement MBer's!!!!
First so glad you made the move. Missed seeing your post about it.
The timing for the vacation could not be better. It is strange to go without your WH the first time. I found it lonely but this past vacation to Bermuda went much better. We both deserve peace and serenity.
I know how shocking it is to see it in black and white the date of the D. I remember when I got the final papers in the mail and just cried and cried in the bathroom so DD would not see me.
No words of advice but blessings and prayers coming your way.
Thanks Hope, I am still looking for that great "aha" of insight as to what and why. I'm just not sure I will ever "get it".
It's surreal to think that we went from an OK marriage that everyone looking in envied; to this...I and the M never really had a chance once the A became the great fantasy.
Now, whether WH thinks or realizes what the reality is; does it matter. He is in too deep to get back out.
I still second guess many of the decisions and choices I have made; did those make the A easier, did I make the D easier. If I had stayed would it have eventually made him look at the situation in a different light.
I don't know....and those are probably answers I will never have. Just venting and wondering. Even if I had those answers would it make the wound less raw. Even though I have a darkness now and some peace, that doesn't seem to be healing.
MyMissy, when I start to crawl inside my own head and wonder about the what ifs, I re-read my thread from around the time I entered Plan B. I remember just how hard it really is to pull off a Plan A and how, although it didn't seem it at the time, Plan B saved me from that agony. There wasn't anything that you could have done to make your WH come to his senses. There still isn't. It is up to HIM. I know you know that. Sometimes, it's okay to be reminded.
WH has refinanced a new mortgage - to buy me out of the house; the closing is Monday. I was hoping just to be able to stop in and sign off on the old mortgage, but I guess that is not possible. I have to go to the closing; how do I act? Do I say anything? Do I even look at him? I have not actually seen or spoken to him since I moved out in March.
I know I don't want him to know how I still feel; my heart is broken and I still can't believe that it has come to this point. I guess I believed that it would all still change and turn around.
Ask if you can be in a separate room from him and have the papers brought to you for your signature.
Just in case...wear a sexy new outfit, have a fresh mani and pedi and your hair and makeup at its best!
Take some day-time antihistamine capsules a ittle while before the closing. I have a friend who SWEARS that it helps her to stay dry-eyed during difficult times.
LC, that is interesting about the capsules and dry eyes.
(((((MYMISSY)))))
As LC suggested, maybe you could see if you could be in a different room. You will most likely see WH anyways. So, also do as LC suggested. Dress smokin hott. And you should be smiling and polite. Keep your head up, you have NOTHING to be ashamed of. You are a strong and beautiful woman and he is a turd for not seeing it.
Remember that you have all of us standing right behind you propping you up.
I don't see why you can't have a separate appointment to go over and sign the papers. Call the title co. and ask. I am sure that it isn't that uncommon for two owners to deal separately with paperwork.
MM: WH is really on the fast track. It's like he's a race horse with blinders on. He has no idea what's surrounding him. It's just a race to the finish.
I TOTALLY understand about fretting about what to wear. I do it every time I go to court. I try on several outfits the night before and have my DD give me her opinions. Isn't that silly to be worried what HE thinks? But we do it, nonetheless.
Perhaps it won't be a bad idea to have him take a glimpse of the CONFIDENT you looking absolutely FABULOUS. Think of the last time he saw you. You had probably been crying and looking rather pitiful. No offense -- but the last day I spend with D!ck I was a blubbering mess.
I -- WE-- have our high school class reunion next weekend. I have no idea if D!ck will be attending. Either way, I plan on looking FABULOUS.
We HAVE to look like what they did didn't bother us. We HAVE to make them and others wonder "What's wrong with him leaving such a fine woman?" We HAVE to put on a show whether we feel like it or not. We HAVE to suck it up, put on our big girl panties and face them.
And OW will be jealous that we look good. OW will ALWAYS be worried that he will come back to us. There is no trust between them. Give OW something to worry about -- YOU!!!
Well I went to the closing, yes looking absolutely fabulous and confident. Didn't feel that way though. Sat in a room with WH for 45 minutes; he said not one word to me, I said not one word to him. He still can't even look me in the eye. He looks a little more lined around the eyes, but not much else has changed, you would have thought if you were getting want you wanted you would seem happier about it. Whatever, at least that is done, last step is the D in mid November. And yes Holyheart - ITA, he is racing to the finish line, its like he thinks that if he gets there then all will work out. I won't be the one to break it to him....but I guess he will figure that out soon enough.
Thanks Hope, yes I did dress fabulous and sexy; at least in a work related way - had to go there straight from work.
settlement - I got half of all assets/equity/and a little extra.
What did he get - well, he had to buy the house all over again, lost half his pension, half the 401K, half the savings and got a skank who doesn't want to work very often and her 3 kids.
Granted the kids are sweet (and innocent of the BS), but WH does not relate well to small children, never knew what to do with his own until they became adults. But those 3 sweet children will one day harbor resentments for being yanked an hour and a half away from their daddy. Step-parenting isn't easy - I know.
I still just don't get it - any of it; neither does anyone who knows us.
I guess that will be an unclosed door for a long time, I will probably never get those answers.
Thanks Scotty!!! And yes I could feel everyone from here; I was thinking before I left work to go to the closing that I had to do it alone. The next thought was - no I don't, there are people at MB who care and are sending me good thoughts - it definitely helped me.
You are so right about the slew of emotions and there are so many and they contradict. I thought as i looked at his arms how I wanted to crawl into that familiar safe haven; I was sad to realize that it isn't safe there. I also took a hard look at him and realized that he seems sad and somehow alone. Another part of me felt nothing and that felt both good and sad. On and on they go; but I guess you get the idea.
Part of me wishes that plan B could go longer and maybe....just maybe...but the reality is that the A will never implode unless I let go. It will be a constant "fight" of them against all the people that don't understand "their feelings for each other". So to go along with the D seemed to be the logical step.
Knowing that we were going to have to finalize the financial stuff on the house, I went ahead and unblocked his phone number. Now he can't SAY a single word to me sitting in the same room, but he can text me and email paragraphs regarding this stuff, directions to the title office, asking questions about things he didn't know or understand, etc. I almost get the feeling that he tries to have these little conversations with me without having to look me in the eye.
Now that the closing is done, the final step is the D in November. I should not have to receive any more messages, if I do I will have to block his number again.
Scotty, I think your strength is amazing, I wish I had more of your resolve. Keep up the excellent example you set not only for your children, but people here, friends, and family. You are truly an inspiration.
I spoke with OWH yesterday, he sounds so defeated. He is starting to see the financial devastation POSOW has caused in his life and what he has to go through to try and hang on to his house.
Do the affairees get whats coming to them?
God I hope so!!!
Ranting about the need for the Karma tank to roll through.
Isn't it sad that the numbers keep rising and rising? Add Brent Farve to the mix -- and Courtney Cox and Christina Aguleria or their spouses.
What the heck is wrong with people? What's wrong with being married AND faithful?
It is sad, I just posted on Hope's thread that there is something wrong with how disposable our society is and that there seem to be less and less consequences for such actions.
(((mymissy))) As much as I'm feeling better these days I'm still hoping like heck that my M won't come to divorce. You are being so strong. And good for you holding your head high!
I hope WS's and OP's get what's coming to them. I know it's not Christian to want revenge but sometimes I feel like there's a whole slough of things I'd do to OW if it wasn't going to just point right back to me....
I hope WS's and OP's get what's coming to them. I know it's not Christian to want revenge but sometimes I feel like there's a whole slough of things I'd do to OW if it wasn't going to just point right back to me....
Anyway, stay strong and I'm proud of you!
We are human and I can write a book of all of the revenge going through my brain many a night. Karma, karma, karma.
Then I step back and know that I do not have to do a thing.
Vengeance is mine..said the LORD not Hope. Our turn will come.
Well back from my vacation; it feels like a milestone that I got through my first vacation alone. At least it was with life long friends. We had a great time; I was occasionally sad and I only texted WH once after much alcohol. At least it was only once. Kind of feel like an idiot, but the emotions got the best of me.
It was nice to relax and have fun; something that has not really happened since the start of this nightmare.
Well, back to reality tomorrow and work, just wanted to check in and say Hi.
Welcome back. Big girl step taking a vacation on your own. Ok so you did a little drunk dialing...it happens but you were surrounded with good friends and had a much needed break.
not too embarrassing; just said "vacay without him fun but weird" and that he was "kinda missed". That was it. I just don't like displaying any vulnerability to him.
not too embarrassing; just said "vacay without him fun but weird" and that he was "kinda missed". That was it. I just don't like displaying any vulnerability to him.
So drunk texting did not have words like "lowlife", "scum of earth", "insert here", or my favorite "beastiality" teehee
I guess it wasn't too bad. Maybe next time you are gonna get "wasted" you should give your phone to someone you trust not to give it to you. that way you won't do something you regret when you sober up.
Well, have been super busy at work which is helping to keep my mind off of the "D"; it is in a week. Being busy isn't really helping and I have been teary at least once a day. I still feel shocked that it has actually come to this point. I also feel as though I caved in to the D and maybe shouldn't have. I don't know anymore, I am just tired of all of it. It has been a long and hard year; and the hardest part is coming up.
Any insight on getting through the holidays and getting through the D?
I want to say that you have done exceptionally well. Your WH is still walking around without 2 broken legs. He did some pretty hurtful things to you and you survived. Not only that, you are learning how to THRIVE. One step at a time.
I am sad for you, but I am also excited. I KNOW that you will do AMAZING things. Thank you for your story and your support. You are AMAZING.
As for the holidays, is there somewhere that you could volunteer? It really makes you feel WONDERFUL to give back.
I want to say that you have done exceptionally well. Your WH is still walking around without 2 broken legs. He did some pretty hurtful things to you and you survived. Not only that, you are learning how to THRIVE. One step at a time.
I am sad for you, but I am also excited. I KNOW that you will do AMAZING things. Thank you for your story and your support. You are AMAZING.
As for the holidays, is there somewhere that you could volunteer? It really makes you feel WONDERFUL to give back.
Thinking of you often
Thanks Scotty, I often don't feel amazing; but your are right I have survived and am starting to thrive again. It has been a long and brutal year. And now the countdown to the D is just days.
I have started to truly soul search about what I want in this life and the way my life really was. I think I romanticized my marriage. I am looking back now and not seeing a marriage that was an equal partnership, it was not about sharing lives. It started out that way, but somehow evolved into his life. I feel cheated that I gave him my heart and almost 13 years of my life. Why is it that we can look at someone else and figure it out; but we can't look at our own and see what is right in front of our face? I would have still preferred to somehow recapture what we had in the early years instead of the nightmare it all became. But I am not sure that is a reality. Now I think I am starting to resign myself to just healing and finding myself back. It is still sad and so very hard.
Thanks again Scotty for all your wonderful support.
I was paying back all of the support I myself had received from all of the other wonderful posters here.
You too supported me and for that I am grateful. You are an amazing person. You gave with your heart.
Isn't it funny looking back? You see a lot of the horrible things that happened. Don't forget the good parts too. Not just the good things that your WH may have done, but who YOU WERE. The fact that you put your heart into your marriage. Don't EVER be ashamed of that. Did it work out? Nope, but not because of YOU.
Now, take some time to learn about who YOU are and who YOU want to be. You are AMAZING. Someone I look up to and someone I am PROUD to call FRIEND.
Well, the D is final. No words were spoken in court to each other, no glances exchanged. When it was over (10 minutes) he hung his head and walked away. At least he didn't bring POSOW; he looks sad and haggard. All I can think is what a sad waste; if only he would have embraced counseling with SH. I think the M could have been recovered and been great - better than before. But he raced to this ending with blinders on.
Now he is is more in debt, supporting her and the 3 children. According to OW H, his son states that EX H spends all evening outside in his shop and doesn't come in the house until its time to take a shower and go to bed. So basically it is the same $hi!, different yard. But so many lives destroyed to get there.
I seem to be the only adult who is coming out of this mess unscathed financially; certainly not emotionally. Now I am just trying to put one foot in front of the other; its hard, I still want the old person I fell in love with back.
I did not have to go to court for the D decree because of the mediation but when I received my D decree in the mail my heart fell to the floor to see it in writing.
Like you I am in much better shape financially than XH and he is in the throes of bankruptcy.
Most M could be recovered successfully but these waywards have to prove that this is their right path even though it is a path to destruction. They cannot cover their sins no matter how much they think they are entitled and this is the reason most of them never prosper.
I know it hurts, we understand it here. You are an intelligent, beautiful woman and you need to remind yourself everyday of this.
I am very sorry for the loss of your marriage MM. I am very inspired and hopeful that your life will be so much more than you can dream it can be, bc of the struggles you have overcome and strength and courage you have shown.
Allow yourself time to go through the five stages of loss, you will come out the other side ok. More than ok as you are already a beacon of light and hope on this board!
I read the part about your EXH staying out in his shop until bedtime. How depressing to have that in your life! Keep that visual in your head when you're tempted to look back at the old days.
Thanks guys, When I do look back - it really wasn't a great marriage (I thought it was). It became about him and his life. I got tired of always waiting around for him to be done with "his stuff" and when I decided to go back for my graduate degree, he became unhappy.
Your right though, the doors are all wide open!
I still believe in MB's and the potential to make any relationship what it should be.
Thanks Scotty!! I have been thinking of what you said for the Holidays; since my job is doing much of that already I have decided to adopt a second rescue dog and will be helping out with the local ASPCA to find homes for other dogs. That and my job should keep me super busy. The kids have decided to spend Thanksgiving with me and my family, since that is what they were used to doing. I am taking my DstepD shopping for X-mas in mid December and we will have an entire day together. I am going to give the kids the option of spending X-mas eve with me but don't want them to feel like they have to choose or let anyone down. I will let them decide when we spend X-mas together; should they choose another time/day that is OK. They just need to know that someone is always there for them.
Hey all, Just wanted to check in and let everyone know its been an OK Thanksgiving. The kids spent the first half of the day with me and my family; it was good to spend some time with them and we have made plans to get back to our weekly dinners until xmas break.
Its lonely and I miss the companionship and friendship I had in the M; but I am beginning to not miss the M itself. I can say that I still feel bitter and angry; but it is starting to ease in the intensity. I would like to say that I am healing but it is too soon for that, I am trying though.
So, I have survived the first major holiday.
I hope everyone here has had a wonderful and blessed Thanksgiving holiday!!
Mymissy, BUT you ARE healing. You aren't healed yet, but it is a process. As long as you are moving forward, even a baby step at a time, you are doing the right thing. Of course it is going to take time and some days will be harder than others. You are simply amazing.
I am glad that you are going to get back those weekly dinners with the step kiddos. They need ONE stable person in their life. Again, they are lucky that you came into their lives.
Well.....I guess I have taken the next baby step and went out on a date. He was very nice and attractive; however I feel an overwhelming lack of enthusiasm and ambivalence. I still feel sad and lost; and I feel as though I am getting angrier. Maybe that is a good thing, I guess I am finally starting to move through those darn stages. I am not sure I am ready for the dating thing; occasional might not be so bad. But it seems as though others are looking for a relationship; I am definitely not ready for that. How sad is it when you enjoy sitting at home with dog more than going out; I miss the comfort. Any advice???
How sad is it when you enjoy sitting at home with dog more than going out; I miss the comfort. Any advice???
May I suggest taking the dog out? I walk my dog a lot (but I'm lucky enough to live near a forest) and I think that had been a fantastic therapy for me. I think it's because I feel as though the motion of advancing physically helps me to advance emotionally. I would start dating when you want to have fun, not because you feel you should. Do things that make you feel better. Spend time with friends, join an evening class, go to cultural events. Enjoy doing things 100% your way, when you meet someone you'll have to compromise again.
Mymissy, go easy on yourself. This has all happened quite quickly. Give yourself some time to heal. If you want to go out on dates, that's okay, just don't put pressure on yourself. You definitely need some time to heal. I have read that about 1 year for every 5 years of marriage is about right.
Thanks guys, you are right though - I think I went out because I felt I had to. I am so not ready for ANYTHING other than an occasional - casual date. Even that feels like to much right now.
How do the Wayturds that have moved in together emotionally stand it????
But to let you know Tully, I do walk the dog, twice a day actually. Your right it is great therapy; I just meant that I prefer the dogs company over that of trying to get to know someone.
And Scotty, I have been maintaining those weekly dinners with the stepkiddos; your absolutely right, they have to have someone consistent and stable in their lives. Even though their are young adults, they have had so much disappointment and chaos from both their parents now. I can't do that to them, I love them like they were my own. I have not brought up the subject of their wayward dad, I don't want them to ever feel as though they would have to choose, that is not fair. Although I am sure that wayward dad and skank do not have anything nice to say about me.
Oh well, I am way off subject; thanks for the advice - I think it is what I already knew. I just needed to hear it.
your absolutely right, they have to have someone consistent and stable in their lives. Even though their are young adults, they have had so much disappointment and chaos from both their parents now. I can't do that to them, I love them like they were my own. I have not brought up the subject of their wayward dad, I don't want them to ever feel as though they would have to choose, that is not fair.
What a wonderful person you are! Someday someone special will see that too. Those children will thank you for what you are doing for them even if right now they can't even say that without feeling disloyal.
Well....I guess A's, lies, infidelity, and deception are just the gifts that keep on giving.
I have just found out that stupid skank is 5 months pregnant; myself, OWH, and all 3 DstepChildren believe she did it on purpose.
I know the D is final; so why do I feel as though the knife in my heart just got pushed in deeper? And once again I can't seem to breathe.
All of the "BIG" lies wxh has told have come back to bite him in the @$$. WXH was so relieved when I was unable to have children and had a hysterectomy in my early 30's; stating he was done having children and did not want anymore. He was unwilling to consider adoption. Now skip forward to fantasyland; we all knew the idiot would never leave the house, so for SS (stupid skank) to leave behind her dream of idiot buying her dream house and moving towards her - he told her some really "BIG" lies. She was unsure of moving her children into his (and mine at the time) house, (behind her H back and an hour and a half away from their daddy). So idiot told her that it was OK, he had always wanted more children but his evil wife (me) would not have any.
WTF!!!!!! This is a man whose own children will attest to what a non-involved father he was until they were about 16; and that they know he had wanted his 1st XW to not have anymore children after his eldest son was born. I continued to foster a relationship between them all.
So I find it slightly humorous that all the lies he has told have come to actually manifest in a bad way. He has ruined his career and will never move any higher than where his now, he now has an unwanted child on the way, he lost half of everything, he lost the respect of everyone he works with, he lost his friends, he lost his dream job and was placed in a position he hates and has to drive an hour and a half one way to work (instead of the previous 15 min).
Was it all worth it? And why does it hurt me so much now that the D is final? And in spite of all the great things happening in my life, it all feels empty and I just feel sad, lost, and hopeless. I also know how much I am whining, I can't seem to help it; along with the non-stop tears.
I would like to say that overall I am feeling better today; maybe a little, at least no tears - yet.
I saw this quote from Mitzie on a post to HolyHeart and copied it,
Quote
This is life. People will screw you over. You�ll fight with your family. You�ll witness things that will change you forever. You�ll blame new lovers for things old lovers did. You�ll lose best friends you thought would always be there. You�ll come to realize that everyone has a past. You�ll cry, you�ll laugh, and you�ll embarrass yourself. But then, you�ll find your very own moment where none of that matters; where you can sit back and realize that s**t happens to the people who can handle it and that this is who you are, and that no one should want to change you, including yourself. - Unknown
It now hangs above my desk at work and I am reminding myself of how true it is; it seems silly that something so simple can help you put perspective on things. Thanks Mitzie.
Have been reading along with your posts all along. YOU ARE AMAZING>
Those Stepchildren are truley blessed to have you in their lives.
COULD THE EVENTS YOU LEARNED OF OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS JUST BE THE THICK BLACK SMOKE BELLOWING OUTOF THE KARMA BUS AS THE DIESEL MOTOR STARTS AND IS WARMING UP??????? COULD THAT BUS BE HEADED SOMEWHERE????
You did all that was in your control at the time to prevent that BUS from starting.
I truley wish You and your family a great Christmas!!!
I'm just catching up on your post and WOW -- I can't believe it. I'm so sorry, Missy. I'm sure the news hit you like a punch to the gut.
And how do we even know if the OC is his? I mean, SS could have been trolling for another sugar daddy and got "lucky." And WH. If he was under stress before, HELLO, welcome to a HUGE dose of stress with a baby on the way.
I mean, fantasy and playing around is one thing but a baby WILL put a huge damper on their relationship. And at his age? WHAT WAS HE THINKING? Yep, SS probably trapped him because that way she'd have money coming in for the next 18 years whether or not he sticks around.
As painful as the quick d was, be glad that at least it's done. My d is going on two years and talk about a waste of time and money.
You are definitely a class act, Missy. Continue to plow ahead in the RIGHT direction and good things will keep happening.
Thanks HH, you, Scotty, Nesre, Pep, and Hope; all with all the other members that have been my MB support have become a lifeline to me. A place to vent where others truly understand the devastation.
And yes, the latest bit of news was a punch in the gut; especially since I did not push for adoption 10 years ago, knowing how much he did not what any more children. I gave up my chance and accepted that I was a good stepmother and a great aunt to my nieces and nephews. I worked really hard for a great life with the blessings that I had in it, not pushing for more.
So, I have managed to make it through holiday #2, I feel pretty good knowing that I survived it when I didn't think I could; only 1 more to go, the really big one since it is also Dday. My emotional state is also much better than it was 3 days ago. I continue to pray for peace in my life and for the good things to keep coming. Eventually I know I will overcome the loneliness as well.
Thanks MB friends, hope everyone has had a blessed Christmas.
Mymissy have limited access to the internet and just catching up. Soon sorry you are going through this. He is a fool. How old is he. Everyone will think he is the grandfather. I agree he might not the father. Your step children are wonderful and so are you. Hang tight for when. The karma bus hits.
Hey Hope, he is 44, SS just turned 31. And yes he could be mistaken for the grandfather; all three of his children are old enough to have their own children.
I have to say, until HH mentioned he might not be the father I did not really consider this. But using the due date she gave her H, the dates of conception coincide with her moving into the house. She was still working then; and I don't know about anyone else, but I find moving exhausting and sex would be the last thing I would be pushing for.
So, I would not be surprised to find out the OC: 1) is not his 2) she definitely did it on purpose 3) both of those. I find it hard to believe that after 10 months of affairland and probably not always using protection, that she would become P after some of the chaos was starting to settle down. My other thoughts on this is that wxh was wavering on the marriage thing and saying to SS - "lets just live together for now".
According to OWH he stated that she had told him that she felt it had been a mistake to have their third child, she had a hard time dealing with 3 children and did not want to ever have any more.
My heart breaks for yet another innocent life that will be subject to this mess. My heart also breaks for the 6 children already involved; all I can do is be there for my DstepKids when that Karma bus explodes. Sad, really - all of it.
Well I have made it through the last holiday and the anniversary of Dday. Also, putting 2010 to an end has had an almost symbolic meaning for me. Today I feel more hopeful than I have in a long time. Thanks MB support - you all have been a lifeline and sounding board for me. Happy New Year!!!!!
I am GLAD to hear that you feel better. I feel better too. It might be all of the hope I feel for the world. You keep hearing EVERYWHERE, It's 1/1/11. That means THIS year will be GRAND. Well, I am taking that by the hand and running with it.
You are one AWESOME lady and it is a great honour to know you.
Today was a pretty awesome day, DstepKids called me to see if I wanted to meet them for dinner. We had a really nice time, we have been making sure that we get together at least once a week.
How is it that you can go for days feeling optimistic; and then just crash and burn into a tailspin. Today the feelings of sadness, loneliness, and fear are overwhelming. Then the tears come. I am afraid of never finding anyone else and if that should happen, how can you ever fully trust again?
How is it that you can go for days feeling optimistic; and then just crash and burn into a tailspin. Today the feelings of sadness, loneliness, and fear are overwhelming. Then the tears come. I am afraid of never finding anyone else and if that should happen, how can you ever fully trust again?
((((((((mymissy))))))) I wish I could give you a definitive answer, but it just takes time -- and a different timetable for everyone.
I am 2.5 years out from Dday and I still have some really low days, but not entire days anymore.
Good days are really good; whereas before good days were only non-crying days!
You will get there! I was told the same by vets and I had a hard time believing it, but I can see what they are talking about now.
How is it that you can go for days feeling optimistic; and then just crash and burn into a tailspin. Today the feelings of sadness, loneliness, and fear are overwhelming. Then the tears come. I am afraid of never finding anyone else and if that should happen, how can you ever fully trust again?
My, my Missy. You sure like to ask the BIG global questions while you are in a funk, don't you?
First of all
BIG HUGS
Second of all ...
It's called a ROLLER COASTER for a good reason. Up and Down Fast then Slow
Remember ?????
Third of all ....
"Today the feelings of sadness, loneliness, and fear are overwhelming."
The key word is "today".
Forth of all ....
Let the tears fall. Cry Wail Curse Pray Stomp Beat a pillow
Let it all hang out ...
My MIL used to say "Better out than in".
HUGS AGAIN
5th ....
"I am afraid of never finding anyone else "
You're not even close to ready.
You will be ready when you don't NEED another person to know who you are. You're lost to yourself, you see Missy?
When Missy returns to being herself and finishes her grieving process, then she is ready to be a whole woman to a new partner.
Try NOT TO dive into the thinking error of "Because I feel this way now, it will always be like this."
Lastly ....
"how can you ever fully trust again?"
Requirements for trust:
YOU must be healed and NOT still grieving. YOU must recover trust in yourself , trust in your own discernment and judgment of character. YOU must be over any overwhelming anxiety/depression.
In other words .... it depends on YOUR personal recovery.
Hey .... haven't we been over this before Hmmmmmmmmmm
Seems to me I am getting a distinct "deja vu" here ....
We've been dealt a bad hand. Yep. Some worse than others. You are not alone. I know that's no consolation, but there are many of us with you facing the same situation.
We just have to plow ahead. Yep. One foot in front of the other. Remember this will pass.
I wish we'd get more posters on the board with those "feel good" karma stories that get us all excited and hopeful. Like there's a purpose to this pain. That justice will prevail. That we will heal and live a much better life than we could have ever hoped for with WS. Which reminds me -- I need to get back the book "Shattered Dreams" from my sister. This book is good at reminding us that when our dreams go up in smoke, that it's often then when we let go and open up our potential, that a better dream -- God's purpose for us -- comes into play.
Yep. We really could use some good news today. But tomorrow is what really counts. We need to keep looking forward to the tomorrows!
You're two months out from your divorce. You've already gone on one date, have established new patterns and behaviors, have good relations with the stepkids, and in my opinion, have come quite a distance!
I'm seven months out from my divorce, and only went on my first date a couple of weeks ago!
Of course, it's all a matter of perspective. But in you I see a person who is taking giant leaps toward recovery! No, not every day is a banner day, but the sun doesn't shine every day either, does it?
Some people choose recovery and others choose to stay in a rut. You, like me, have chosen to continue to live the rest of our lives, facing each day anew. I think the difference is like some people waking up each day and saying, "Good God, it's morning" and others saying, "Good morning, God!"
Thank you all for such wonderful words and encouragement; but thanks to Pep for the hugs and 2x4's, I definitely need those. You are all right!!!! I try to get up every day and start the day optimistic and full of hope (thank you God). And I realized that it is still Ok to be sad and to cry, which is what I have been doing for the last several days. But I will continue with those baby steps; I guess occasionally I stop and whine a little about the unfairness of it all. I am really trying to be Ok with being alone, it is sometimes just hard. I am very thankful everyday for the family support that I have, the great job and excellent salary, my friends, and DstepKids. Overall my life has not turned into the septic tank xwh's life has; and that has to be revenge enough. I do still hold out a whisper of hope that somehow it can all still be turned around, but then that feels unrealistic given all that has transpired.
I will stop trying to look at the global picture and concentrate on tomorrow. Thanks again for all the love.
((((Mymissy))) I just caught up on your thread. This definitely suxs. Each day will be a little better and that's all you can do for now. When you're ready, something that may help is the balloon exercise. Write it all out, put it in a helium balloon and then release it, imagining that your sending all your hurts and pains straight up to God. Sometimes it helps.
What about writing it all out and sending to wxh to let him read all the hurt and pain he caused?
However, I already know Pep's answer to that and I don't think it would be little 2x4's.
I guess part of what is so hard to accept, is that one day things were normal and ok. The next day (literally) the person I have spoken to several times a day - no longer can look me in eye and there are no more words. Period. Then everything was over.
Well I have to vent a little; and ask if the affair crap ever ends. DstepD called the other night and was obviously upset - here is where I need to give a brief synopsis. WXH and his 1st wife divorced due to her infidelity, she moved in with her affair partner, WXH and I started dating, he proposed, we planned a wedding, 1st wife married affair partner the weekend before WXH and I were to be married (without telling children).
So, now fast forward about 9 years. Rumors circulating about the kids mother having an affair behind the back of her affairage partner, kids find out about 2 years later the summer after HS grad., Dstepchildren21 (twins) leave for college, their mother moves out of their home - not telling anyone - including the kids, DstepD calls me from college hysterically crying and very upset with mother, many fights ensue between the kids and their mother, the kids stay with WXH and myself or with stepdad when they come home from school.
Now, skip ahead to WXH chaotic drama and affair, kids feel like the one stable place they had is gone, I remain a stable figure in their life, then their mother finally moves back home right before Holidays 2010 and makes a grand gesture of working on affairage (I never believed it - but kids wanted to).
So, now back to the phone call last week, apparently Dstepkids mother never ended affair (big shock - not), and has moved out of affairage home and back in with affair partner, she is filing for divorce.
Kids are are devastated, feel like they have no home, no where to go. They know they can go to stepfathers home (which is their family home), their father (wxh) emptied out their rooms and moved in skank and her 3 kids, I have maintained that they will always have a home with me.
I think the twins have learned what is not ok, the oldest - my fear for him is that he has only witnessed lies, deception, and cheating. He may always have relationship issues; he and I have never been as close as I am with the younger two.
My heart breaks for them; and any sense of family and stability that might have had is gone. Wxh's family has not proven to be a source of stability for them as well. DstepD said to me last year after I moved out and expressed my disappointment of their lack of concern, that she was still waiting for her grandmother to call and see if she was doing ok. This would be my XMIL that I thought I had a great relationship with.
I will never understand or make any sense of any of this.
The children in this are the real fatalities. The waywards in their mind think everything will be "fine" We as BS know better.
Recently my XH has been emailing both of his DDs. DD17 does not respond and DD30 ripped him off an email saying you should be thanking Mom for being the glue that held us together because you were not there. ouch.
Write a personalized letter to each of your S children. Offer your home for refuge. Let them know they have a "safe place". Even if they do not take you up on the offer it will give them some peace knowing they have a place of serenity to go.
You be the lighthouse and shine your beacon for them.
Tell them you are proud of them with all the turmoil in their lives and know that they will thrive.
My heart goes out to them. My DD30 does have R problems with men and I know that the D had a negative impact on her.
One day at a time. Be the continued example for them.
Write a personalized letter to each of your S children. Offer your home for refuge. Let them know they have a "safe place". Even if they do not take you up on the offer it will give them some peace knowing they have a place of serenity to go.
You be the lighthouse and shine your beacon for them.
Write a personalized letter to each of your S children. Offer your home for refuge. Let them know they have a "safe place". Even if they do not take you up on the offer it will give them some peace knowing they have a place of serenity to go.
You be the lighthouse and shine your beacon for them.
EXCELLENT suggestion !
That is a most wonderful suggestion, I wanted some advice on the wording of the letter. Here is a draft of the "meat" of the letter.
"Dear DstepC I wanted to write this letter to let you know that in light of recent events you have experienced that I am so sorry you have to witness this yet again. I also want to let you know that I will always be here for you in whatever aspect you may need; I am not trying to take the place of one of your parents, but will always have you in my heart and mind. You will always have a home with me should you ever need it. I will also remain open and honest about what I am doing and what is going on. Your parents love you, remember that first and foremost; unfortunately they are searching for that elusive sense of happiness that they believe someone else can provide for them. I would like to believe that someday they will learn that true happiness comes from within. With all the things that you have witnessed, experienced, and have been disappointed in; remember that you have also had wonderful and happy moments that you can draw knowledge and examples from. You are strong, smart, savvy, and have your whole life ahead of you to define who you are - use those good times and examples to build that life. Love Mymissy"
"Dear DstepC I wanted to write this letter to let you know that in light of recent events you have experienced that I am so sorry you have to witness this the destruction of a marriage, yet again. I also want to let you know that I will always be here for you in whatever aspect you may need; I am not trying to take the place of one of your parents, but will always have you in my heart and mind. You will always have a home with me should you ever need it. I will also remain open and honest about what I am doing and what is going on. Your parents love you, remember that first and foremost; unfortunately they are searching for that elusive sense of happiness that they believe someone else can provide for them. I would like to believe that someday they will learn that true happiness comes from within. With all the things that you have witnessed, experienced, and have been disappointed in; remember that you have also had wonderful and happy moments that you can draw knowledge and examples from. You are strong, smart, savvy, and have your whole life ahead of you to define who you are - use those good times and examples to build that life. Love Mymissy"
One small suggestion for clarity only. Other than that, beautifully done.
Thanks Scotty. Letter has been sent to all three and I will be having dinner with the twins Tuesday evening.
I have spoken to DstepD several times this weekend; she wanted several recipes for her superbowl party. That made me feel really good that she called me to get those from, actually her brother told her to ask me if I would make the things they like and bring them up to them but she thought with my recipes that she could make it just as good.
At this point I cherish what contact I have with them - I hope it will only continue to grow as it has been over the past several months.
I do feel that I have been a point of stability in their lives. Thanks everyone for helping me continue that.
Great letter and I am sure they will feel some stability in their chaos with their parents. Don't be surprised if one or two of them take you up on the offer.
I don't think I've ever posted to you before, but I just wanted to tell you something I have learned from my own life experience.
First, a little back-story (very abridged)- I'm adopted, as were all my siblings-5 total (including my twin-John. We were lucky enough to be adopted together). Here's what I have learned from this life experience: Family isn't just about blood relations...sometimes you "make" your family.
Here's a poem that my mom shared with me:
"Not flesh of my flesh, or bone of my bone, but still somehow miraculously, my own.
Don't forget, not for a minute, you weren't born under my heart, but in it."
Well, have had a few updates; DstepK crazy mother moved back in with affairage spouse. Basically kids are upset because they know she is only doing this because of what they said to her. DstepD21 plans to tell her mom not to move back on their account and that they know she will only repeat her actions. What craziness they have in their lives; I'm glad they are at college and rarely at home anymore.
2nd update; I have finally adopted a second dog - a 5 year old female powderpuff Chinese crested. She was in foster care for 18 months. She and my other Chinese crested are tentatively getting along. We are only at the 24 hour mark, so far it looks good. I have also applied to volunteer with Crest-Care the crested rescue organization.
So that, along with my job, and taking care of 2 dogs should start to fill my days even more.
I have also decided to put myself back in counseling; I seem to be having an extremely tough time letting go emotionally. I am tired of being sad, so this seems like an appropriate avenue. Not sure a counselor can tell me anything I already don't know in my head, but worth a shot.
Well, have had a few updates; DstepK crazy mother moved back in with affairage spouse. Basically kids are upset because they know she is only doing this because of what they said to her. DstepD21 plans to tell her mom not to move back on their account and that they know she will only repeat her actions. What craziness they have in their lives; I'm glad they are at college and rarely at home anymore.
What a crazy situation. They are so blessed to have you in their lives.
2nd update; I have finally adopted a second dog - a 5 year old female powderpuff Chinese crested. She was in foster care for 18 months. She and my other Chinese crested are tentatively getting along. We are only at the 24 hour mark, so far it looks good. I have also applied to volunteer with Crest-Care the crested rescue organization.
Congrats on both.
So that, along with my job, and taking care of 2 dogs should start to fill my days even more.
I have also decided to put myself back in counseling; I seem to be having an extremely tough time letting go emotionally. I am tired of being sad, so this seems like an appropriate avenue. Not sure a counselor can tell me anything I already don't know in my head, but worth a shot.
I may not be the best one to talk about this with where I am currently at but it sounds like the stages of grief. YOUR human!!! We all hopefully work through them at our own pace and order to get to personal recovery. Doesn't sound like your stuck maybe just need some help.
A good IC will help to insure you don't get stuck. Your right-It is all inside of you-Sometimes we just need someone IRL to bounce what we already know off of. Almost more like a coach to keep us going and accountable.
I don't spend much time on the D/D'd thread but maybe others there have more insight into this that would be helpful. Not sure but might be worth a try.
I may not be the best one to talk about this with where I am currently at but it sounds like the stages of grief. YOUR human!!! We all hopefully work through them at our own pace and order to get to personal recovery. Doesn't sound like your stuck maybe just need some help.
Thanks Nesre, sometimes I forget that. I think I just want things "better", period. And it all still seems so unfair and surreal.
I have decided this spring to get new LR furniture; I am giving the current furniture to DstepK's21 for college apartments. They seemed pretty excited about getting nice furniture. So, then they go home last weekend and DstepD has her hair done by my SIL and proceeds to say that "she doesn't want the furniture; she is mad that I demanded and insisted on taking it and leaving her father with an empty house, and if I wanted it so bad, why was I now getting rid of it; etc, etc".
I would like to think that DstepK are smart enough and savvy enough to look at both sides and determine the truth. But these do sound like her daddy's words. (just for the record, I never demanded or insisted on any of the household furnishings, POSXWH is who divided the furniture and when I moved, that was the furniture I took)
What bugs me the most in this is the fact that in all that has been lost and destroyed and all the people that were hurt - are a couple of pieces of furniture really the important focus??? The second part of this is if those are her fathers words what does he really gain by attempting to drive a wedge in our relationship??
Now this information has come to me 3rd party - by my brother. And I always have to take anything my SIL says with a grain of salt; 1st she only hears what she wants to hear and 2nd she never relays it correctly - its always exaggerated.
Do I bring this up to the kids and set the record straight (I could show them the first draft of legal separation that their dad did behind my back), do I let it go and not mention it at all???
You will constantly have little statements make their way to you that are not nice or accurate and you must just see them for what they are..... people making innacurate/incomplete judgements. Period.
I agree as well. You were giving the furniture out of love. If the furniture winds up in your WXH's house, you won't know because you are in Plan B. Don't let the words of another change your actions. You are a great person. And IF WXH IS trying to put a wedge in your DstepKids and your R, he will be the one who suffers as his children will see what kind of man he really is. You are amazing.
Well had dinner last night with the kids; no mention of furniture, no mention of being upset.?. The conversation did turn briefly about their crazy mother (she did not move back in with affairage spouse and continues to live with AP, she is filing for divorce). I don't remember what brought up the subject; but I asked if they really thought that she would be happy in her current R. They responded - I would hope so, but probably not. I then asked did they think that WXH and POSOW would live happily ever after, and DstepD responded - I would like to think so. I kept my comments in...I feel as though DstepD wants to say - but they are happy, just doesn't want to hurt my feelings. However, the impression that I get occasionally from OW H is that things are not perfect and happy in affairland. But I am in dark plan B and do not know those things. I am beginning to realize how important absolutely letting no information in truly is.
My fear for DstepK is that the craziness they have been subjected to - as children and now as adults - has actually become the norm for them. They are hoping that their dad will be happy in his current R, not acknowledging the devastation caused to get their. And like the rest of that dysfunctional family, they have learned to not acknowledge what they see, not call a spade a spade, accept lies and deception.
I think that all I can do is set the best example I can for them and hope/pray for the best. IDK anymore.
Mymissy, it is sad that people learn to accept things that they actually thought immoral at one time. I was talking to a co-worker on Sunday. I happened to talk about my WH and the A. She said, "Do your children know about the A?" I said, "Of course they do. They need to know not to like OW and that she helped destroy their family." Her eyes bugged out, I could tell that she didn't like that. I don't care though. Then she said, "Well because my H and I are separated, and we have a GF and Bf but it wasn't because of an A." That's when MY eyes bugged out. No A? They are still married and are "dating" other people, sounds like and A to me. Then, in response to me stating that MOST As end within 2 years, she says, without any misgivings, "My dad has been with his OW for more years than he was with my mom." So, she saw it growing up and grew to believe that it was acceptable.
Your DstepK may one day be faced with an opportunity to enter into an A, my only wish is that they will remember YOU and NOT do it(even though their parents have given them HORRIBLE examples of what to do).
Thanks Scotty, I don't believe that I ever mentioned on my own thread; but have recently posted it on another thread. But my parents divorced when I was 20, my brothers were in high school and junior high; I was living on my own 2 hours away and in college.
They divorced due to an A my father had; he married his AP and the affairage has now been 20+ years. So while they have not fallen to the statistics; I would say they are not happy either. My father has never let my mother go, and early on in his affairage he was technically having an A with my mother. Now while my mother no longer allows "that" to go on; he is still there anytime my "stepmother" is out of town, he hangs out at my mom's house. ????? Basically they are comfortable roommates who enjoy a lifestyle together; but I don't see any real love or connection. Kind of sad especially when you go back the 20+ years and look at what each other gave up.
Eeewwwhhh, is all I can say then and now regarding what my dad was doing.
Now while I still love my dad and actually get along very well with my "stepmother"; I can honestly say that I don't love her and I wouldn't want anything bad to happen to her; but that is as far as my feelings go.
The point I am babbling to get to is this - even though my mother is better off without him, she has never really moved forward - I use her as an example of how I don't want my life. The other part is - I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR MY FATHER OR STEPMOTHER - AND NEVER WILL. I actually told my father many years ago to leave mom alone and let her get on with her life. He obviously didn't listen.
I used what I saw and tried to model my own life around what I thought to be right and wrong; and the examples I wanted to set. While POSWXH and I were dating; I would never spend the night on the weekends he had the kids. I never wanted to give them the wrong impression. I did not "officially" move in to the house until after we were engaged and were only a few weeks away from the actual wedding date.
Now I look at what he and POSOW are doing (she is still married and he was still married when he moved her in); they was no regard for the 3 little kids, and the example for my DstepK once again is chock full of crap.
IDK if they will remember the small example I have tried to set for them and continued to give them. This is when I think that "nice guys really do finish last"; I hope not.
Well, no wayward, A, or divorce stuff to report. All is quiet on the pregnant WW front. That is good. Nothing to report on the DstepK either - all seems good. Little hard this week; POSXWH's b-day was yesterday. I still can't believe it has been a whole year since everything turned so ugly.
I have to ask; is it normal for a WW - XWH or otherwise to close all contact with the BS? I read some of the other thread's and see that the WW bounces back and forth, attempts occasional contact, stirs the pot, etc. In my case, he appeared to make a choice/decision and then that was it. I guess in the plan B/D that is good; but it makes me wonder - was I such a horrible spouse? I didn't think so, I always based anything I did on how it impacted "us". Was POSOW a better choice? His lies came back to bite him and his life is no longer what he used to want. But yet he continues on this path. These are the things I struggle with; I continue to self blame for all that happened.
Still struggling with moving forward; I feel stuck.
If you feel stuck, what do you think could help you out of there? Do you need a change of scenery?
I think the main thing is probably just that it was xWH's bday, so it brought it all back up for you again. Next date that is going to remind you of him, do something for YOURSELF and make is a special day.
What is the next date that you can think of that may be a trigger for you?
Thanks Scotty, I am thinking that I need a change of scenery as well; I am considering moving south before next winter. I have about 6 more months on my current lease and then I plan to look at all open positions within my company. I would have liked to have held out on moving until DstepK were finished with college; but I am not sure I really want to stay in OH. IDK, they will be done summer of 2012; maybe move then. I really try to just take it one day at a time.
The next date that will trigger memories will be the next several weeks; XWH proposed over an 8 week period - turning it into a wonderful game - and ending with a proposal right around Easter. I thought I would always treasure that memory and now it just feels like a lie. I will be in N Carolina for 10 days for continuing education, so that will help.
Was out to dinner with DstepD and she informed me that her grandmother (XMIL) has decided to not have Xmas get together on Xmas day any more - she said with the new baby coming that the families should spend time on their own. WTF, with the birth of her 11 other grandchildren they never stopped the Xmas get together. This tells me that the ripple effect in the family is quite significant. Oh well, not my problem or concern. Kind of sad to see part of that family fall apart; I feel especially sad for XWH grandparents - this is probably why no more Xmas.
Thanks Hope, actually Texas is one of the places that I have been considering down the road. I am guessing there is a lack of occupational therapists there, some of the salaries I have seen offered from recruiters are phenomenal. Texas would beat the Ohio winters.
Well I seem to be doing better in spite of this time of year; no tears for many days now. Of course I still obsess about everything in my head, just less intensely. Baby steps
We have a few major hospitals here if you want any more info let me know. I do not miss the winters even though I miss my family but I travel back at least 2x a year.
I know this is tough and even after all of this time I do have my days but it is getting better.
Hey Hope, I just finished reading the last couple of pages of your thread. I am so sorry that after all this time that you still have to deal with all the BS. As for me, I am doing OK. Not great, but not horrible. I have decided to start some counseling and my first appointment is next week. I feel stuck and just not moving forward. So I thought some IC might help me to continue to work through all the sadness. SS had the baby, obviously got herself pregnant 2 months before I signed the separation papers. It would seem she got pregnant immediately after I sent xh an email threatening to move back into my house. Hmmmmm...coincidence, I think not. She and her husband are not yet divorced, it. Was put on hold when the court found out she was pregnant. But in truth, none of that is my concern or problem. I am just trying to focus on me and my healing. Some days still seem hard, but I am surviving day to day. My plan for now is to enjoy my summer and then this fall decide if I am moving and to where. I am currently leaning towards Florida, northern florida has pretty nice weather and I have a friend in the area. Another friend is trying to talk me into moving to Vegas; it's an option, but it seems very far from Ohio and my family. So that's where I am for now, just working; still see DstepKids about once a week for dinner. That does get harder, DstepD has slightly jumped on the SS bandwagon with the arrival of new baby. It's easier to not even bring subject up and I can hardly fault her. She is daddy's girl. It's sad though, xh now has all the things he never wanted; someone else kids, new baby, multiple house cats, and a partner that doesn't work. My guess is that it will fall apart in the future and there will be even more children tragedies. No one seems to want to consider any of the kids best interest; SS uses her 3 against her soon to xh to get what she wants out of him and now there is another innocent child who will end up being a pawn as well. Again, not my problem. Seems cold to think that way, but for my own sanity i have to.
Wow, I can't believe in this coincidence, although Oprah says there are no such things as coincidences. I just finished reading your thread, and then I found this e-mail in my in-box from Oprah regarding her last show (obviously a general e-mail sent to thousands of fans):
Lo and behold today's words for May 26th just happened to be "BEING SAD". ( No coincidences)
The best thing for being sad, replied Merlin, is to learn something T. H. White.
"The idea here is not to divert the sadness, but to give it a context from life other than what is making you sad. Just as a ginger can lose its bitterness when baked in bread, sadness can be leavened by other life. When feeling the sharpness of being sad or hurt, it helps to take new things in. This pours the water of life on the fire of the heart. So when exhausted from expressing all that hurt, listen to music you've never heard of, or ask someone to tell you an old story from before your birth, or take a drive down a road near a ridge you've always meant to look out from. Look with your sad eyes on things new to you that will give you something to do with your sadness. Your sadness is the paint. You must find a canvas."
I hear so many of you saying you're sad to see the show leave. Instead of sadness, I hope you will channel the energy of hopefulness you received from the show in whatever form it gave to you.
I hope this speaks to you, and it is a great comfort knowing that many people are rooting for you, and you are not alone.
Thanks CG, I am trying to learn from this "experience" and am looking for my canvas; I just seem to be having a hard time finding it. But in my heart I know its there. I would like to have pulled the "bandaid" off this wound and gotten it to heal faster; but I think I would have missed part of the healing process and not found out who I am again. What I have learned so far is that I am starting to like who I am again.
Haven't posted to you much before but Missy, my sig line says it all when they get pregnant deliberately.
Their affair will die a miserable death even if there is an affairage in the future. Might I suggest GA? ATL area? Wonderful nightlife and shows come here, great restaurants, lots of hospitals here and good salaries and beautiful suburbs and rolling hills. You can get to either a gulf beach or ga beach within 4 to 5 hrs! Mountains are an hour away. Plus our airport is the largest so you can always get quickly home.
I did, fwiw, what you are doing after my D. I went to a fantastic counselor who worked on me. Your situation, like mine, was quite traumatic and you have to work to "work" this out of your system or else it could lead to issues w/stress related HTN which I now have but am "fixin" right now. Im in healthcare too.
Let your x dig the hole and move as far away from his trauma drama as possible. Tell the dstepchildren that you want a relationship with them, but without recon on the adulterers.
However, I do think it might be funny seeing a woman getting a divorce from her husband who is pregnant and hearing why in court they're getting a divorce. Oh the judge should LOVE that it's not her stbxh's baby! (evil giggle)
Sad part is I can tell you what will happen. Here's their future and then you can turn it off. Like you my xwh had everything a guy could want. But he was an idiot and lost everything. Not my problem. But here's how their stupid relationship will go: 1)she will get divorced and push for their relationship or for a M (affairage) b/c of her baby coming and she doesn't work (my xwh's wistress wife did'nt work either0 2)your wxh might be pressured to marry her but he won't really want to. 3)he will immediately (if he does) feel MORE pressure and begin to panic and want to run. This is when the cheating feelings come back again. My xwh began cheating right after she had the baby...cheating again! 4)they will argue from the get go. It will not be pretty either. It will be vile, vicious arguements like you two never had. My xwh got physically violent with the ow/w on several occasions. 5)the ow will begin to spend $ like no tomorrow if she senses he's losing interest or she might be single again. 6)they will spend, lie and cheat themselves into destruction and sadly the child will lose. My xwh's oc from the affair is now 6, and she has huge learning disabilities and suffers from emotional trauma and at that tender age, had to be hospitalized earlier this year due to mental issues. AT SIX. Because of them. 7)they will divorce and it will end far far more badly than yours did. But more devastation will lie in their wake.
Thank God you have a great job and a beautiful new life ahead. It is beautiful! After focusing on healing and moving ahead after what my xwh did, I got pretty darn happy here. I also ended up meeting the man I would marry and the real love of my life too! But all that could happen only after HARD REAL WORK on myself, my personal recovery.
So come here. Or somewhere that makes you happy. Get a great job. Get a city with a big airport so you can fly away and have new life adventures and put that "thing" (the D) behind you as it was never your problem to begin with. Hugs and smiles~
Have not been on here in a while; thought I would throw out a quick update.
I am doing ok; counseling is definetly helping me to continue to work through the emotions. And I now understand how the scar of an A will never completely go away.
Still not dating - despite the pushing of people around me. Just not ready; but I can at least look toward the future. Sadness stills plagues me, sad for all the losses - the losses everyone experienced.
I am still in contact with my DstepKids, I took all three on vacation over the 4th of July and the twins and I still have dinner a couple of times a month.
While I was not able to recover my marriage; I attribute my personal recovery to the great people on this site who saw me through me darkest time. MB's has taught me many things and I will definitely use those tools in the future. I am glad that I did not force myself into a relationship before I was ready. Now I am open to the concept, but certainly not pursuing it.
I do still feel stuck - both personally and professionally. I am considering trying some travel therapy to see some other areas of the country. And maybe figure out where I want to be geographically. But I haven't decided on that yet. I once asked for a blueprint or a script to help wade through all the crap of an A; part of me is still looking for that script.
So, I keep putting one toe in front of the other - I figure at some point I will figure out the path.
Good to see you MyMissy. Life is very short. If you've got the opportunity to travel, I say go for it! Who knows what adventures might be waiting for you.
I once asked for a blueprint or a script to help wade through all the crap of an A; part of me is still looking for that script.
So, I keep putting one toe in front of the other - I figure at some point I will figure out the path.
Wow, I responded almost this exact thing to your post in my thread before reading yours! I think we all feel this way. It's hard to move on and to think what to do with our new lives that are so different from where we thought we were going.
Traveling is a great idea!! Just think of all the FREEDOM you have now to go wherever you want, whenever you want! I'm thinking about going to Ireland next year just on my own for a week. I think spending that time alone with yourself in a completely new setting might really help you recognize just who you are and what you're capable of doing in your life!
If someone could send a script 
me) woman" ... and he is conflicted.
and 
rave .... unburden yourself.
in his email.
They all say the same things at the same stages. Lucky you have the magic decoder so you can see thru the fog babble and navigate your way thru the fog that he is living in.
<~~~ WH
).
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But again I manage to stop myself, stay on the high road, and stay dark. ![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/angry2/8.gif)
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But I am starting to process what has happened.
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; And it only took a few months of that for me to get it.![[Linked Image from smileyvault.com]](http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/stock/smiley-indifferent0013.gif)
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I really try to just take it one day at a time.![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/puking/7.gif)
I thought I would always treasure that memory and now it just feels like a lie.