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I'm so sorry to hear of this, Dazed.

One more thing on disclosure: your H must willingly tell you this girl's name and where she lives. (Do not tell him that you intend to inform her parents, or he won't tell you.)

The reason is that you can never know that they are truly NC if you don't know that much about her. She might live in your street, or go to your church, and if you don't know those things you can never know he is NC or not. Dr Harley talks about this issue in one of the advice columns on this website. He says that a BS will not recover if she does not know who OP is.

I had had a quick look for it but cannot find it just now. I will look again later.

If your H is now back in your marriage, as you seem to be saying, then a sign of this would be his willingness to be forthcoming about the girl's identity. You should not have to be googling and doing detective work to find out who she is. I know I suggested this activity, but I was working on the assumption that the affair is ongoing to some extent. If it is, your H will not tell you anything, so you need to find out yourself so that you can expose. If it has ended but your H is still uncommitted to you, the affair is still warm and waiting to start up again. In this case, your H will not want to tell you anything because he is waiting to see what happens with OW, so again, you need to search and expose. If it has ended and he is remorseful and wants to compensate you for the harm he has caused, and he wants to rebuild love, then he will give you the information you need; with shame, quite likely, but willingly nonetheless.

I'm being very suspicious about this affair being over, partly because it ended very recently and partly because of your H's behaviour; seeming to want you back and so dating you and going to MC while continuing the affair. His lying during MC, and showing no withdrawal and not disclosing now.

Do not rely on your H"s seeming sympathy for your pain. That is not evidence of the ending of the affair. He was a good liar during recent months and you could not tell that he was having an affair. This might still be true right now.

Your H will agree to send a NC letter as described by Dr Harley if the affair is really over and he is committed to rebuilding.

Have you read ALL the free materials provided by Dr Harley on this site? Please start with this one: How to Survive Infidelity


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His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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D-day #2 today, I found out, as Sugarcane kept insisting, that N/C had never actually happened and WH has still been in touch with OW.

He has now written a N/C letter and while I'm ok with it, I'd really appreciate some other's opinions before I send it off. Pasted below -

OW
I was incredibly selfish in my actions. I disregarded the feelings of my family. Dazed and my children. They mean more to me than anyone else or anything else ever could mean. They are my reason for living. I need to work on my marriage, and my family. They are my priority. The cruel and selfish act of being with you will forever be my biggest regret in life.
I cannot ever repay the pain I have cause Dazed, and my family. But my choice is to be the husband/father I should have been all this time.
I will not have any further contact with you, and I wish you to not have any contact with me.
Please respect my desire and choice to not have anything to do with you.
You are dead to me.


BW (Me) - 32
WH - 29
2 DD's - 4 & 7
Together 9yrs; Married 3yrs
OG - 17
EA/PA 1/09 - 2/10; D-Day #1 10/01/10 D-Day #2 2/02/10; N/C Est 2/02/10
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Originally Posted By: DazedInAus
D-day #2 today, I found out, as Sugarcane kept insisting, that N/C had never actually happened and WH has still been in touch with OW.

He has now written a N/C letter and while I'm ok with it, I'd really appreciate some other's opinions before I send it off. Pasted below -

OW
I was incredibly selfish in my actions. I disregarded the feelings of my family. Dazed and my children. They mean more to me than anyone else or anything else ever could mean. They are my reason for living. I need to work on my marriage, and my family. They are my priority. The cruel and selfish act of being with you will forever be my biggest regret in life.
I cannot ever repay the pain I have cause Dazed, and my family. But my choice is to be the husband/father I should have been all this time.
I will not have any further contact with you,do not contact me ever again.
Respect my desire and choice to not have anything to do with you.
You are dead to me.



The only change I would suggest is in bold above. And crossed out.

Great letter.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Last edited by Miss M; 02/02/10 02:25 AM.

me: FBS
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Agree with Miss M's changes and yes indeed, it is a fabulous letter.

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Sorry to hear this Dazed. hug

I take it your WH has now disclosed all the details about the OW and that you are now in a position to expose to her parents?

Did your H come clean about the contact or did you find out by snooping?

Ask the mods to merge your threads as it's easier for everyone to keep up to date with your situation and give you the best possible advice if you stick to one thread.

Unfortunately, this is a quite common development, and it's extremely hurtful. You should not trust your H yet. He has much work to do and you neeed to keep your eyes wide open and set the bar high for him returning to your M.

The more eyes on your H and the OW, the better, so expose to everyone who could possibly have an effect. This includes OW's family.

Keep us posted. hug


Me - BW
FWH - BB -(PA Jul 08 - Aug 08)
D-Day - 8 Aug 2008
Recovering nicely


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Quote:
OW

I was incredibly selfish in my actions. I disregarded the feelings of my family. Dazed and my children mean more to me than anyone else or anything else ever could. They are my reason for living. I need to work on my marriage and rebuilding the trust of my family. They are my number one priority.

The cruel and selfish act of being with you will forever be my biggest regret in life. I cannot ever repay the pain I have cause Dazed and my family, but my choice is to be the husband and father I should have been all this time.

I will not have any further contact with you. Do not contact me ever again.


Respect my desire and choice to not have anything to do with you.
You are dead to me.

Slight massage of the verbiage and deletion of the "dead to me" line which is unnecessary, meant to show emphasis almost as a badge of honor and doesn't even suggest that he isn't open to negotiation on the point. Works in old mafia movies. Doesn't need to be there.

Combined a couple sentences, cleaned up punctuation...

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LOVE IT


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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Originally Posted By: Mark1952
Quote:
OW

I was incredibly selfish in my actions. I disregarded the feelings of my family. Dazed and my children mean more to me than anyone else or anything else ever could. They are my reason for living. I need to work on my marriage and rebuilding the trust of my family. They are my number one priority.

The cruel and selfish act of being with you will forever be my biggest regret in life. I cannot ever repay the pain I have cause Dazed and my family, but my choice is to be the husband and father I should have been all this time.

I will not have any further contact with you. Do not contact me ever again.


Respect my desire and choice to not have anything to do with you.
You are dead to me.

Slight massage of the verbiage and deletion of the "dead to me" line which is unnecessary, meant to show emphasis almost as a badge of honor and doesn't even suggest that he isn't open to negotiation on the point. Works in old mafia movies. Doesn't need to be there.

Combined a couple sentences, cleaned up punctuation...


Agree 100% w/Mark on the changes!





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Awesome as Mark edited it.
If your H won't agree to those changes, though, it is still awesome.

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threads have been merged!


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Thank you all so much for your thoughts. Miss M, I made the changes you made, unfortunately I wanted it out as fast as possible so the changes Mark/Tst suggested didn't get made (I actually was going to clean that bit up too Mark, but WH wanted it the way it was and it was HIS letter so best for it to sound like him or she'll just say I wrote it and it's meaningless)

Sere, I found out, again. As I said I would, WH and I had sat down the other night and "gone through" the entire thing. I was feeling good, I finally knew everything, it was all out in the open and we could start putting her behind us and concentrating on us.

What Sugarcane was saying bothered me though, and kept echoing in my head, so I investigated. What I found out has come close to completely destroying me. Not only was almost everything he told me the other night yet more lies.

It started earlier than he said he did, he slept with her more than he said he did, in more places (including my car), he spent money on her he said he hadn't spent. He took her to a hotel, though he claims she paid half, and he took two days off work to take her her pathetic little high schooler friends away to celebrate their graduation.

He shared 'our' movie with her, whose theme song I walked down the aisle too. He shared "our' petnames with her, both terms of affection but also body parts (if you know what I mean without being crude), he was seeing her behind my back over every major event for the past year, our anniversary, my DD's birthday's, his and my Birthdays, Mother's Day, Christmas. More and more and more things he lied about, to my face, again.

He sent her a message the day after I found out, telling her that he was going to be calling her that night but that he didn't mean what he'd be saying. He continued to have her on his MSN after he told me she was blocked, he saw her twice in the city, once he arranged for "closure" and the second time was an 'accident' and he walked away as soon as he saw her, but why should I believe a word out of his mouth?

On top of that, I discovered that from just 6 months after our wedding, he was a member of several dating sites and was receiving and sending pornographic pictures to random women.

I am a wreck. I can't stop being sick, I can't stop shaking or crying. I love my H, I meant my wedding vows, but I don't know if I'm strong enough to do this. He's stolen every good memory I had and shared it with her instead. He may as well have spat on our wedding rings, that's how much meaning they have right now

Most of yesterday was spent crying, with him begging me if there was any chance, no matter how tiny, for him to keep me. I feel so weak for still wanting to work on and save our marriage. I've given him two weeks to start proving to me that things have changed, that he is changing. He's already taken steps, before I even found out. He's cancelled the dating sites (I checked), he's changed his email address and given me the password. He wrote the N/C letter, which I helped him with by showing him Tst's (thankyou Tst!), but he put it in HIS words, he wrote everything there voluntarily and he mailed it right in front of me with no hesitation.

I'd appreciate some outlines of exposure letters, or some suggestions. I am going to expose to OW's parents, as I have already done to mine. WH's boss also knows now as he had to inform her of why he was leaving work yesterday after I found out everything.

I have to get the girl's ready for school now. This is a complete nightmare and I just want to wake up frown


BW (Me) - 32
WH - 29
2 DD's - 4 & 7
Together 9yrs; Married 3yrs
OG - 17
EA/PA 1/09 - 2/10; D-Day #1 10/01/10 D-Day #2 2/02/10; N/C Est 2/02/10
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Dazed, this is painful to read. I know exactly what you are going through. I know about questioning all those birthdays, wedding anniversaries, holidays etc. I'm so sorry.

Can you please tell me a few things:

How long HAS it been going on for? Since before March 2009, clearly.

How old was this girl when he started with her? This and the porn use makes me worried about his tastes.

How did you find out this information? Does your H now know of this source?

Dazed, your H is dangerous to you now, as I have been saying. He has watched you go through hell and put you through a false recovery, whist watching you struggle with sleeping and caring for the girls. You were "nearly destroyed" before, and he carried on doing what he was doing. Your being even more "nearly destroyed" now will not stop him. He needs to have something to lose in order to stop.

I don't know about exposure letters. I'm all for DRAGGING this girl's address out of your H and knocking on her front door, on a weekday evening when you can assume her parents will be home, and she as well. I would take a friend to support you and stop you doing anything violent that could land you in court. The goal is to put a stop to this CHILD interfering in your marriage.

You can expose to her circle as well, but I would speak to an 18 year-old child and her parents face-to-face.


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Originally Posted By: SugarCane
Dazed, this is painful to read. I know exactly what you are going through. I know about questioning all those birthdays, wedding anniversaries, holidays etc. I'm so sorry.

Can you please tell me a few things:

How long HAS it been going on for? Since before March 2009, clearly.

January 2009.

How old was this girl when he started with her? This and the porn use makes me worried about his tastes.

She was a month off turning 17 when he started 'seeing' her. Am unsure exactly when they first had SF, will ask him when he gets here in a couple of mins, but I think it's safe to assume it was before she turned 17. It is worrying me too, though I've found no evidence of any other interest in young girls, and I HAVE looked.

How did you find out this information? Does your H now know of this source?

I got into the hotmail account he'd shut down. He changed the password to random letters/numbers so he wouldn't know the password, but then had chosen not to shutdown the work computer it was on, so he didn't have to log back in. Yesterday his work computer spat it and shut itself down so he lost access to the account. It took me about 30 seconds to get on, reset the password and put a new one in. I'm ashamed to admit, when I logged into his MSN and discovered her NOT blocked, I messaged her, abused her then blocked her before she could respond. Not my most shining moment :S Sadly yes, he knows of this source. I'm horrible at keeping things to myself

Dazed, your H is dangerous to you now, as I have been saying. He has watched you go through hell and put you through a false recovery, whist watching you struggle with sleeping and caring for the girls. You were "nearly destroyed" before, and he carried on doing what he was doing. Your being even more "nearly destroyed" now will not stop him. He needs to have something to lose in order to stop.

I don't know about exposure letters. I'm all for DRAGGING this girl's address out of your H and knocking on her front door, on a weekday evening when you can assume her parents will be home, and she as well. I would take a friend to support you and stop you doing anything violent that could land you in court. The goal is to put a stop to this CHILD interfering in your marriage.

The only 'good' news in all of this. The first night, when he told me 'everything', the first thing I asked was her full name and address. He gave them to me, so I know her address (and I checked it when we mailed the N/C letter yesterday). I can't go to her house, I just can't. I can't see her, I really am not sure I could control my more violent impulses right now and that wh*** isn't worth jail time for.

You can expose to her circle as well, but I would speak to an 18 year-old child and her parents face-to-face.

Her "circle" already know. She lost quite a few friends from being with a MM, but the ones that stuck around, think it's all a big joke and have apparently had a great time making fun of me.


BW (Me) - 32
WH - 29
2 DD's - 4 & 7
Together 9yrs; Married 3yrs
OG - 17
EA/PA 1/09 - 2/10; D-Day #1 10/01/10 D-Day #2 2/02/10; N/C Est 2/02/10
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Be careful with letters, Dazed. you must be sure that they get into the hands of her parents and are not intercepted by her. Your H might well have warned her that exposure is on the way and she could be looking out for the post.

Do no trust him, Dazed. Act as if he is still in contact and telling her everything. He is not your ally right now.

Would you be prepared to speak to her parents on the phone, if you could work out when she was at college? Her mother might be at home in the daytime. I think you need to speak to this mother for maximum effect.

Do you think they have had sex since he has been home? You need to stop having unprotected sex with him and get both of you checked for STDs, regardless of when sex last took place. Teenagers here are notorious for harbouring chlamydia.


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the marriage builders forum need to report this to the policethis is harboring information about child abuse.Dazed the same to you!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted By: dsd
the marriage builders forum need to report this to the policethis is harboring information about child abuse.Dazed the same to you!!!!!!!!!

As far as Dazed knows, this girl had reached the age of consent in Australia, which is 16.

It is very distasteful but this does not seem to have started illegally.


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I've just re-read this, Dazed:

"They met in a piercing shop in the city while he was on his lunchbreak, got talking, exchanged email/msn addresses and apparently, it didn't take long for the innuendo and inappropriate conversations to start, but because she was in High School at the time, he says he actually didn't see her very much, it was mostly contact via msn/email/mobile phone."

This fits in with pick-up sites and casual sex. This was not someone that he grew close to through work or church or in the neighbourhood; this was a pick-up.

This is very risky behaviour, and he might well have done this before.


BW
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Sugar i wondered if it was in Australia after i posted but didnt know if Aus in her name was for Australia or Austin Tx.

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Originally Posted By: dsd
Sugar i wondered if it was in Australia after i posted but didnt know if Aus in her name was for Australia or Austin Tx.


Yeah Australia Dsd. Us Aussies tend to forget there can be other meanings for that shortening.

As soon as I found out her age I did the research. If he'd been doing anything illegal, I would have reported it, no matter how I feel about him, but there is absolutely no legal recourse, according to law, they were doing nothing wrong. Morally is a whole other story, but sadly, you can't prosecute for broken morals.

Sugar, his emails show that he hadn't deleted anything, dating back to 2007 (how I found out about what was going on 6 months after our wedding). I did look, as I too felt that it was all just too 'easy' for this to start, but there is no evidence of any other actual hookups. Lots of emails to a couple of women, but they're in England and the US.

His words are worth SHoneT right now, but he has sworn repeatedly that this was the only time it's gone any further than emails. I have no reason to believe him, yet I do. When he met OW, his entire personality changed, he was NOT the man I married, even though it's been proven that he wasn't the 'man I married' long before the PA started. I guess I think if there had been other PA's or ONS's previous to this one, they also would have effected his personality.

Def no SF at this time, let alone unprotected. He already volunteered for a full STD check, and he'll be getting that done before I even consider letting him near me. We did the EN questionnaire from the website, and SF was not even in his top 5. SF has never been his problem. His problem is that he has a huge, to the point of very unhealthy, craving for Admiration, the emails and flirting filled that need, until something conveniently basically fell into his lap offering even more. I truly don't believe he went looking for it, but once it was offered to him on a plate, he certainly took it.

I can't find their phone number Sugar, it appears to be a silent number, and WH claims not to know it.


BW (Me) - 32
WH - 29
2 DD's - 4 & 7
Together 9yrs; Married 3yrs
OG - 17
EA/PA 1/09 - 2/10; D-Day #1 10/01/10 D-Day #2 2/02/10; N/C Est 2/02/10
One day at a time
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Okay, Dazed: when you write the exposure letter, give them a means to contact YOU. Perhaps supply a mobile number, just in case there is anything strange about them and you want to change the number later. You must try and follow up and make sure they received the letter.

In this country, a registered letter has to be signed for, but can be signed for by anyone. It does not have to be the addressee. Do you have a better system than we do?

I'm going to bed now, but keep posting to keep our thread bumped to the top. Other people here are very good on exposure letters.

You need to think about Plan B, in case this does not stop and you have to use it. Have you read the article What Are Plan A and Plan B in the infidelity section?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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