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#2318586 02/05/10 10:05 AM
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I am pretty new to MB, posted a couple of months ago because WH wouldn't give details of the affair. Pretty much over that now, because what WH wouldn't tell, OW delights in making sure I find out. Be careful what you ask for, huh?

Anyway, I am posting because I really just need a place to vent. Before A, I was mother to 3 wonderful children, made 7 figures at a business I created and own, wife to perfect man, great friends, traveled abroad...everything I ever wanted.

After A, I feel like a terrible mother because I am so screwed up, its all I can do to even read a book to them at bedtime...I moved across the state from where my business is located to get away from OW (she lives in the same city and went SWF over all this), plus my WH and OW both worked in office, had sex in office, all my employees knew,its just too much, my perfect man clearly turned out to be not so perfect...tried to ruin my business, humilate me, gave me an STD...I just can't even type anymore...its too ugly...

I am SO angry. WH and I were in MC, stopped because MC said we were on the right track, so now I'm in IC because apparently I'm the problem...Counselor says I have to forgive and move past this if I want to be married....and WH says I'm living in the past....Yet I wake up every morning and still have to live this life, not the life I chose, but this life...

I really do not feel like a normal person anymore...It is not normal to have this much RAGE....

I have read all the posts I can....vent to friends, journal, IC, but what I really want to do to SCREAM OUT LOUD!



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I am SO angry. WH and I were in MC, stopped because MC said we were on the right track, so now I'm in IC because apparently I'm the problem...Counselor says I have to forgive and move past this if I want to be married....and WH says I'm living in the past....Yet I wake up every morning and still have to live this life, not the life I chose, but this life...

When did the affair end?

When did you discover the affair?

Has your husband answered all of your questions to your satisfaction about the affair?

Has all contact ended?

Has your husband implemented extraordinary precautions to ensure this doesn't happen again?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I think it's normal, reason being is sounds like you just wrote my life story. I have so much rage until it's like I am a different person. I told my husband that the world doesn't even look the same any more. But I have come to the conclusion that with time, it will get better. Some minutes are better then others.

Yes, it is in your best intrest to forgive, but forgetting for me is another story. I forigve me husband really I do, but he thinks I"m suppose to forget like right now. I wish I could. You will have moments of rage, pain and hurt. It's like someone has died. There are so many variations to the healing process, but if you and your husband have decided to work it out, just know it's gonna take TIME. I found out September 1, 2009, and at first I was simply hurt, now it's like I'm in rage all the time. That's something I have to work on.

My husband says the same thing "that was in the past". I tell him yep, you had fun in the past with this affair, now it's affecting my present. You may be over her, but I'm not. He had his turn and now it's mine. Just my opinion. It'll get better with time.



"Never get in a bed if your name isn't written on it"
26years #2318648 02/05/10 11:30 AM
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26years and hurtandhope, the problem with being abused in this way, is that it TAKES TIME to get over it. The anger and rage is a normal part of the recovery process.

Adultery is as traumatic as rape, physical assault or the death of a child. Can you imagine telling someone to "get over it" 6 months after her child was killed? Anyone who tells an adultery victim to "get over it" 6 months after the fact, DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE EFFECTS OF ADULTERY.

It will take YEARS to get over it. The pain will fade with time, but you will never "forget it." Nor should you.

That being said, you can express your anger and grief in a way that harms or helps your marriage. If you are attacking your WS, you are hurting your marriage. Better to come here and unload your grief HERE where it won't harm your recovery.

Some very important articles that explain this are below.

Dr. Willard Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders:

Quote
The question I am most frequently asked by visitors to this web site is "how can I survive my spouse's affair?" After having counseled thousands of couples with hundreds of marital conflicts, I am completely convinced that a spouse's unfaithfulness is the most painful experience that can be inflicted in marriage. Those I've counseled who have had the tragic misfortune of having experienced rape, physical abuse, sexual abuse of their children, and infidelity have consistently reported to me that their spouse's unfaithfulness was their very worst experience. To be convinced of the devastating impact of infidelity, you only need to go through it once.
How to Survive Infidelity

AND

Quote
I'm in favor of forgiveness in many situations, but this isn't one of them. In the case of infidelity, compensation not only helps the offended spouse overcome the resentment he or she harbors, but the right kind of compensation helps restore the relationship and prevents the painful act from being repeated.

In most cases, an offended spouse would be unwise to forgive the wayward spouse without just compensation. It's like forgiving a friend of the $10,000 he owes you, when it's actually in the friend's best interest to pay you in full because it would teach him how to be more responsible with money.
Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Hurt,

Not only was your H unfaithful and betrayed you, he tried to ruin the biz, gave you the STD and humiliated you, so he was mean and hateful as well as an adulterer.

And you are still married to him? And trying to rebuild your M? And your IC says to move on and WH says you are living in the past??!! banghead banghead banghead banghead

Hey, I AM GETTING VERY ANGRY TOO!!! rant2

Ok, if you are/were making 7 figures at your own biz you have to be an intelligent woman, ambitious with a strong will and backbone.

But you are letting the low life OW intimidate you so much you moved across the state? By the way I did not understand the ""went SWF over all this"" what is SWF?

Do you still own the business? And all the employees knew about the A? Jeepers. I would fire every last one of the disloyal bassahds.

I don't know your whole sitch, but if the WH is saying get over it, it does not sound like he is remorseful or repentant.

Let that anger go and clean house at the biz. Fire your H too.

IMHO

kirk


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Melody,

I found out on 9-15-09 and it ended the same day. WH hasn't seen OW since and sent NC on 10-1-09 (before I found MB, and knew what we were doing...but SWF actions forced WH to do something).

WH didn't really answer all my questions...but I have found out more than I ever wanted to know from OW harrassing me. Just to be forthcoming, the OW was our nanny, so WH and OW were literally together every day, so I can understand how it would be difficult for WH to recall every detail (which is what I wanted intially).

And yes, all contact has ended between them...and yes he's done everything.

Which is why I think MC thinks its my turn...I read on here all the BS who have problems with WH in the "fog" and being "distant"....I am my own problem. I just feel such RAGE for having my life turned upside down. WH begs me almost daily to move forward with our lives...

Yesterday I finally asked him: Should OW be our nanny again? WH says "of course not". Then why should WH be my spouse? What WH did was worse, yet I have to live with him every day. And I really DO NOT want a Divorce, no matter how angry I am...we have 3 kids under 5 and it is just not an option for me.

p.s. Thanks for the forgive and forget link smile I have read Suriving an Affair

Last edited by hurt_but_hopeful; 02/06/10 09:57 AM.
krusht #2319297 02/06/10 10:09 AM
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Kirk,

Thanks for letting me vent...I am just so tired of IC...if I wanted to journal or some passive form expressing myself, then I would not be me.

SWF means "single white female" LOL, old movie...basically where OW wants my LIFE, not just WH...and I moved because of my kids...yes, I could have gone to the police, tried for some half-[censored] restraining order, waited for the court system to do something...not interested...the OW was following my kids around, watching them play at park from across the street, etc. All of my babies are under 5 and its just not worth taking the chance, especially if you have the means to move.

I really think I just need to post on this forum to vent...I almost feel guilty for complaining on MB. I have read so many stories of BS who have tried everything and WH just walks over them. I am doing things that I know are hurting WH and marriage...lets just say I do the exact opposite of Plan A smile

Let go of anger, let go of anger...rinse, lather, repeat. I have to work on it.

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Originally Posted by hurt_but_hopeful
Which is why I think MC thinks its my turn...I read on here all the BS who have problems with WH in the "fog" and being "distant"....I am my own problem. I just feel such RAGE for having my life turned upside down. WH begs me almost daily to move forward with our lives...

hurt, you are SUPPOSED to feel rage. That is a normal part of healing and recovery. You are going through the STAGES OF GRIEF. You cannot fix NORMAL. When a woman is physically assaulted she feels rage. What you have been through is as bad or worse than a physical assault or rape. That is not "fog," that is healing.

What matters is what you do with that rage. If you come here and vent your rage, it will be productive. If you channel it in attacks on your husband, you will destroy your marriage.

But be assured, you are SUPPOSED to feel rage. That is a normal, healthy reaction to an assault. In a good recovery, it takes about 2 years to move forward. You are brand NEW to recovery.

Are you counseling with a qualified counselor? Most marriage counselors do not understand the dynamics of adultery and don't have the slightest idea how to save a marriage.[they have an 84% failure rate and have a higher divorce rate than the gen population] What are her credentials? What is her track record?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by hurt_but_hopeful
Let go of anger, let go of anger...rinse, lather, repeat. I have to work on it.

You got it!! Come here and give us your grief! We will understand and it wont' hurt your marriage.

Everytime you feel like lashing out at him, tell yourself this:

1. I am shooting myself in the foot

2. I AM MAKING THE OW LOOK GOOD!! [betcha that skank didn't lovebust him]

Don't sign up to make the OW look good~!

My next question is this. Does your MC have a PLAN for you and your H to fall in love again? See, this is where the vast majority of MC's fail. They don't even believe it is POSSIBLE to create romantic love in a marriage. And that will be the most therapeutic medicine for your broken marriage. That is how MB differs, recovery to them means FALLING IN LOVE AGAIN. If your MC doesn't have a plan to do this, then you are wasting your time.

Many folks think "recovery" means just getting over being angry about the affair and going back to the pre-A marriage. Well, it was the pre-A marriage that made the affair possible. Recovery to the Harleys means much more, it means FALLING IN LOVE again.

check this out:

Originally Posted by Dr Willard Harley in Requirements for Recovery
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the betrayed spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
Requirements for Recovery


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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You are NOT responsible for the affair. You and your husband may share the responsibility for an unhappy marriage.
Congratulations you have posted into the right place if this is true.

Your rage usually takes place six months after d-day. This is when your taker kicks in. Your husband needs to be aware of this. If your husband and you are reconciliating, and you trust him(snoop)let him post -on his own thread.

Many folk would caution you about the use of MC'c and IP's. Look for a councilor who puts marriage first. There are many Charlatan's who would be happy to talk to you and take your money. If you can afford it -contact the Harley's.


But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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We do have the whole MB seminar that you can get online...We just got it and are making our way through it. Even before we found MB, WH tries everything (trips, gifts, bubblebaths and candles, etc) all of which I shoot down...and yes, I know...it will hurt my marriage. Its almost like I can not stop myself...

I could probably write a new chapter of LB...I tell him every day that he's ruined my life, my career, limited the life our kids have...I type it out here and I sound like a TERRIBLE person...I have never felt rage before...but I feel it now...

I am just SO UGLY to WH, and really, he beats himself up more than I ever could...he cries almost every nite when he tucks the kids in bed over what he "almost lost"....He didn't ALMOST LOSE anything...he threw his family away...like we were trash...its not the same...

I went back and read 26's initial posts..and I do/did the same things...talk about the PA non-stop until it consumes our lives...he hates talking about it, sometimes he gets physically sick...and my response is "you didn't get sick when you were having sex with your kids nanny"....

Ok, that's it...I will be the most hated BS on MB and my poor WH will be a martyr...Even I feel bad for WH when I write it out...because I am so much nastier with WH than I am even writing here...


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Quote
I am so much nastier with WH than I am even writing here...

Your wounds are so fresh.
And the hateful adultery took place in your own home/sanctuary.
The enemy was a paid employee who was stealing and plotting and undermining the safety and security of everything you hold dear.

.... and your WH was a willing partner to all of this ....

OW has an ugly-ugly black-tar-oozing soul. rant2
And WH was not any better.

Of course you rant ! You have been assaulted!

Have you considered moving?

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HBH, below is a post on Boundaries. It also deals with rage and how having good Boundaries can help with rage.

You were violated in a number of ways during your H's cheating, and if you are in the same house and same office where it took place - well, that rage you feel is your gut screaming at you "Danger! Danger, Will Robinson!" every time you walk into one of those places. Your mind is trying to protect you from such an assault ever happening again.

Yet no doubt you feel that you are expected to just put up with this feeling of violation, and that is causing a lot of the rage.

If you want to keep your marriage and family, please consider moving your house. Find a new place from which to run the business. Take Control Of This and get rid anything and anyone and any place that brings on this feeling of violation and rage.

Expensive? Yes, but not as expensive as your sanity being assaulted on a daily basis.

We sometimes get posts here from BS who are still sleeping in the same bed that their WS/FWS brought their OP into. They ask if this "should" bother them and whether they're being "too sensitive."

The responses here are universally GET RID OF THAT BED RIGHT NOW! Drag it outside, haul it to Goodwill, haul it to the dump, haul someplace where you can burn it!

Taking control of this by getting rid of what is still a violation to you, no matter how big or how small, will almost certainly help. Below is the Boundaries post:

*****************************

A boundary is not defined as "something I don't like."

A boundary is defined as "something I will defend no matter what."

A very common question is, "How do I enforce a boundary? How do I make my spouse stop lying, how do I make my spouse stop dating OP, how do I make my spouse start taking care of our family instead of someone else's?"

The answer is: You don't.

Trying to "make" people do the things listed above is not enforcing a boundary. It's control, it's manipulation, it's laying down demands, etc. etc. etc.

And none of it works.

The answer to the question, "How Do I Enforce A Boundary?" is virtually always the same:

You remove yourself from the situation. You stop allowing the boundary trespasser to have any access to you at all.

This is what's meant by, "You can't control others. You can only control yourself."

You can't "make" your spouse stop lying to you - but you can remove yourself from their presence and no longer allow them around you until they do.

You can't "make" your spouse stop dating OP - - but you can remove yourself from their presence and no longer allow them around you until they do.

You can't "make" your spouse take care of your family instead of someone else's - but you can remove yourself from their presence and no longer allow them around you until they do.

Get the idea now?

Boundaries are for *you*. They are to protect you from people who would do you harm. They are NOT about "making" others do anything. They are about protecting *YOU*.

Castle walls don't make the invaders stop their cruel and destructive attitudes - but they do protect you from their intrusion.

Boundaries are castle walls.

And as far as anger goes, you will find that good boundaries will make much of it go away. Good boundaries really do make RAGE dissipate, because anger + fear = rage. Good boundaries keep you safe, and when you are safe, fear goes away. You will certainly have some righteous anger left, sure, but the RAGE will fade away because there is no longer the fear hanging around to fuel it.


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Four to six months past D-day was my period of rage. I can remember crying and saying to FWH, "I just want my life back!!!" DH was not as empathetic as many FWHs on here. He was often defensive and he trickle truthed me into near insanity but he was loving and supportive and he quietly took my pain and rage because he knew that he deserved it.

The rage phase lasted two or three months and then I began to heal and get through my own issues. Even in the heat of my anger stage though, I kept telling myself and DH that my rage and pain were a direct result of his A. He knew that he was the cause of it.

I wish that we had counseled with the Harleys. With a seven figure income, the cost of counseling should not be a problem for you. Call them now. i have come to the realization in the last few years that ANY other MC is a waste of time and money. Sign up for the next MB weekend too.

You have come to the right place to recover your M.

God's Blessings,

Say


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4 kids and 4 grandbabies between us
In recovery since D-day, May 28,2007
FWH never onboard the MB boat but still clinging to the side.
One day at a time by God's grace.
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Just a big THANK YOU to everyone that takes the time to listen to a complete stranger's problems...It is so much better to vent here than to my WH...no one in my house has metioned the PA all day (that is a first) because I have been able to SCREAM here smile

Yes, we have moved...I moved across the state 5 weeks after affair due to OW...she was literally stalking my kids, breaking into my house, it was surreal.

Yes, I got rid of everything/place (which included boat, rv, house, bed...basically everything I owned)....except the business (where they also had sex...in my kids room...this is normally where I remind my WH how vile I think he is). I am working on the business...its not as easy as selling everything I owned (sarcasm...i brought my babies home from the hospital to that house) but am working on it.

Pepper, the lengths OW went to in an attempt to destroy my family still blow my mind...this was not just an employee...I can't even tell you how involved she was in our lives...every party, holiday, trip, everything...we celebrated holidays with her family (because ours is long-distance). It is almost as hurtful as what WH did to me...I trusted her with everything.

BUT, I really think that her actions are the reason why WH didnt experience the "fog" that most go through...OW literally stalked our kids, came to our house, harrassed us, sent me the most disgusting letters with details that make XXX movies look clean...all in an attempt to make me kick WH out...it was all just so over-the-top that no excuses could be made for her and he snapped out of it almost instantly.

Once again, thank you thank you thank you...I already feel like a weight is lifted from me...and WH is in the backyard playing with the kids...almost seems like a normal life for just a few hours at least.

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Your anger is good and healthy. Once you understand that it is there to protect you, your marriage and your family, you may be able to stop beating yourself up. You are way too early in this not to feel very, very angry.

Don't expect your husband to have even an inkling about how badly his choices hurt you. You could scream and insult him all day for months, and it won't really sink in.

I think you can do better for a counselor, because obviously your counselor knows nothing about recovering from infidelity. Good that you have the MB program, but better to get a couple of phone sessions. Let the Harleys help you put your anger into something productive. They seem to be able to do it very quickly.

And give yourself a break - you have been through one of the most traumatic things that can happen to a person.

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Originally Posted by hurt_but_hopeful
...she was literally stalking my kids, breaking into my house, it was surreal.

When OW is a sociopath, I am certain the legal system must be made aware.

What has been done in this regard?

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Pepper,

I am in the legal system...just wasnt willing to risk it with my little ones...restraining orders aren't worth much, court system takes too long...I just felt I could protect my kids better and quicker by moving away.

And OW husband and family also told me just to cut off all contact...their opinion is that OW "thrives on drama"...thier words, not mine...which is just so shocking...2 1/2 years and I thought this was the sweetest, most helpful girl I'd ever met...if you can picture a cute, bouncy cheerleader type, thats her...and I never even saw a GLIMPSE of this person that she is now...

Anyway, so we did not get police involved, No.1 because we left so quickly and No. 2 because her family seems to think she would like the attention/drama

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I see.
I thought your reference to SWF was not only about the film, but OW's marital status as well.

Thanks for clearing that up.

What's your plan if she attempts contact?

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Originally Posted by hurt_but_hopeful
We do have the whole MB seminar that you can get online...We just got it and are making our way through it. Even before we found MB, WH tries everything (trips, gifts, bubblebaths and candles, etc) all of which I shoot down...and yes, I know...it will hurt my marriage. Its almost like I can not stop myself...

Is this the one where they assign you a coach? Or is it the home study course where you are on your own? I really hope it is the former because a coach can be such a HUGE HELP in ironing out problems.

hurt, I know you are still "hurt" and will be for some time. But it is important that you STOP talking about the affair to your husband. It should never be brought up again. Doing so hurts his lovebank and pushes him away. That works against you and will cause permanent harm to your marriage. You can't EVER take those words back. And please understand that you have every right to be furious and give him hell every day. It just does not help you in any way. you won't always be angry, but your marriage may be permanently harmed from your lovebusters.

PLEASE, PLEASE come here and talk to US about it. There are many people here who will carefully listen to your grief. And we all understand and will never put you down or tell you to "get over it!" You will get the relief you need and won't harm your marriage.

you will get through this! {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{[hurt}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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