Yup.

And that is the number one thing hindering your recovery.

YOU don't really get the severity of the pain YOU caused YOUR wife, and she knows that!

When you finally really get it, if it's not too late, Recovery can really begin.

What does that mean?

Bat,

Let's try these again.............

Have you done any coaching with the Harley's yet?

Have you read any of these MB books?
His Needs Her Needs
Love Busters
Surviving An Affair
Fall in Love Stay in Love

What Online lessons have you completed, if any?

Pepper, I'm curious...How do you feel it's beneficial to point out that the WS is to blame, after he/she has already accepted that fact and is coming to others for guidance.

I am certainly not giving you pointers...I am simply asking for guidance and practical advise..."additional blame" is a simple concept...Neither you or anyone else has the power to assign additional blame, it's merely the phrase I chose to describe posters that offer nothing tangible, and tell me that I screwed it up and should fix it.

If you have helpful guidance and insight, offer it.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do NOT try to post similar issues...

Stick to your own questions and your own solutions....... They WILL be much different than what she will need to be doing!

Do you understand this...... In other words, please stay off her thread..... I wouldn't even read it for a while.

Stay out of your wifes thread!

Well?
What does that mean?

I don't intend posting to her thread, and I will not read it, if that is not what I should be doing...

TST - We have not done any coaching yet, but we did get Love Busters, and Surviving an affair...We have completed about 1/2 of the weekend online seminar.

Gack - Not being much different than other men means that we like to fix things that are broken. And, yes I do get what I have done...as I have put out there numerous times today...

You know, I just do not buy the "spotty memory " deal. This was relatively recent. Sex with someone is a big deal.It makes an impression. You sound intelligent. No way you do not remember all the details, IMO.
Maybe your wife is not buying this line, either. That would probably piss her off and make her insecure.
You need to stop lying about your inability to remember stuff. I can remember every woman I ever kissed.

I'm trying to gauge your ability to offer empathy.

So far, it's not looking good.
Can you tell us how you currently express empathy to your W(orld) when the vision of sex in your kid's beds sends her off the ledge?


Are you aware that this sudden vision of you with OW will pop into her mind FOR YEARS every time she tucks her little ones in bed?
The joy of motherhood, one of the small and gentlest things a Mother can enjoy with her children, has been tainted.

What can you do to show empathy each and every time that happens?

Hold her.
Stroke her hair.
Bring her a warm blanket.
Rock her in your arms.
Sing to her.
Cry with her.

You cannot "fix it".
You can show empathy.

Understand?

You give lip service to the fact that you accept blame but you still reek of waywardness. Expect to have it continually pointed out to you until we sense that you "get it."

Sadly, most of us have personally dealt with your defensiveness, with Ws whose lips say one thing and attitude says another. Sniffing out rats is our specialty.

Read TST's entire thread. You will be able to see where he "got it." He is the poster child for a truly reformed wayward as opposed to one who just wants to start over and forget about it.

God's Blessings,

Say

I have given her details of every time we were together, including when, where and how...the things she wants me to remember aren't the big things, its the small details. I'll try and give an example:

I danced w/ OW at a country bar one night...My W did not like the way we danced together (we went out as a group) and pointed it out to me...Obviously I was having a PA with her, so, I lied and promised never to dance w/ her again. About a week ago, my W asked me what song we danced to...I do not have a clue, yet she does not buy it...

I understand her mistrust, and she may never believe anything I say again, I will just do my best to answer anything she wants as honestly as possible.

I will say it again:

Earn her RESPECT.

[hint: telling people here they are assigning "additional blame" and telling folks that piling more guilt on you does NOTHING to earn a woman's respect.

If you look and sound like a wuss here, I am sure it looks the same to her.]

I am not trying to be mean but I believe that recognizing how important it is for a woman to respect her H is often sorely overlooked.

She will act respectfully towards you when you are acting respectable.

And then she will fall in love with you again.

Respect PRECEEDS love.

BAT,
On hearing your story, I recalled your wife�s posts and so I went back & found & re-read some what she has posted. (Disclaimer: I�ve only been at this business of recovery for a little over 13 months, so I�m still figuring stuff out, too.)

You�ve done some things right: Foremost, no-contact. If you�ve held up your end on this since Sept.25, this is good as far as it goes. That you were willing to relocate to protect your marriage & family is positive.

However, the no-contact policy, while necessary for recovery, is not sufficient. Let me bounce some thoughts & questions off you, based on some things that you & your wife have posted. This won�t be fun for you to read, but it is all well-meant for you & your marriage:

## She said �WH begs me almost daily to move forward with our lives� Is this true? She said that you�ve told her �You just want to live in the past." Is this true? (If so, do me a favor and punch yourself in the jaw for me right now, since I�m not there to do it in-person!) Here's the thing: You can�t be out �walking point� in the process of moving forward. You can�t be more ready to move forward than she is. You need to let her set the pace. Your job is simply to let her know that you have her back covered. (Specific advice: Covering her back includes making sure you've told her whatever she's wanted to know, when she wants to know it, with no obfuscation or fudging.) From today onward, you define how well you are doing by how well she is doing.

## She says she�s read �Surviving an Affair.� Have you? If so, what are some things you learned from it? What specific changes have you made in the ways you relate to her & to your kids? What are her top emotional needs? What are you doing regularly now to try to be better at meeting/filling each of them? (Please answer these questions in a subsequent post.) Read about Love-Busters, such as Angry Outbursts. It�s not a Harley term per se, but among the Love-Busters are what I call �Stupid-[censored] Statements� (�SASs�); and when you�ve had an affair in your wife�s home, in your marital bed, caused her & your children to have to relocate, turned her professional life topsy-turvy, and trickle-truthed her afterwards, all within the last 6 months, �You just want to live in the past� is a SAS. Here�s some specific advice: Go to her right now (or call her if you�re not together) and apologize for saying anything like this. (This should be easy for you. After all, as you just said, she's your World.)

## You said �She takes things that I have said to her in the past and repeats them back to me out of context to push my buttons and fight.� Waitasecond: Didja notice your evasion of responsibility there? BAT, you�re not a robot. You control how your �buttons� are wired. You can re-wire them. If she (as you see it) �presses a button� to goad you into a fight, who controls how you react? That�s right � you do. So do you start yelling and getting defensive and protesting about all the good changes you�ve made, and telling her things can�t work unless she moves forward? Or do you stick with accepting your rightful blame, ask her what she needs from you, and set out to deliver on that?

## Very early-on in our recovery, our MC asked me, �[GloveOil], can you take it? If she gets angry at you, can you take it? If she rages at you, can you take it, no matter what?� What she was really asking me was �WILL you take it? Are you committed enough to see it through?� There were times when my wife �- a former conflict-avoider & Sunday-School teacher who never used a bad word -- threw F-bombs at me, pounded on my chest like she�d never hit anything before in her life, or just didn�t want to talk to or be in the same room or building with me. And even more than a year out, even though even she would tell you that our relationship is closer & better than ever, the rollercoaster is still there, there are still dips & turns. It can get better, but it takes patience, and at only 6 months out, and with the specific circumstances of your affair, you've got a ways to go. As other posters have counselled, be patient. You owe her a ream of patience. It was within her rights to toss you out on d-day and drop a suitcase on your head. She has stuck with you, despite having lots more reason to doubt you than you've had to doubt her.

BAT, WILL you take it? If you�re on here posting questions like �Should we just give up and be the best parents we can?�, then I�ll wager that this sort of equivocation & uncertainty is also coming across to your wife, in the discussions or arguments you have with her. You said you want to make her understand that you are there & not going anywhere. This is good as far as it goes, but it doesn�t work as a static concept. You can do it once, you can do it for 5 months, but if you�re using poorly-chosen language that gives your wife any notion that, for you, quitting is still an option someday if things get tough enough, then you�re undermining her ability to trust that you�re really, in fact, not going anywhere. You can't overcome this mistrust with any words, you just have to keep walking the walk.

Is it true you were doing this woman in your home with your kids around? Yikes, no wonder she is pissed to the max. That is crazy, man.

Good, reading her thread is not going to be helpful to you or your marriage at this time.



OK, please schedule a time with your wife to finish viewing the seminar ASAP.

First and foremost, I'm going to recommend you do whatever the Harley's tell you to do. That being said, I suggest you to get the book and the book on CD, Fall in love, Stay in Love. Then read as well as listen to it over and over again.

You, my friend are going to have to learn this program quickly, and FILSIL is the best tutorial book available.

Are you willing to do these things today...... schedule the time and order the books?

You've gotta start somewhere!

tst if I am not mistaken doesn't SH recommend other things first...namely, the "cleaning out of the wound"?

He told us that doing the ENQ and LBQ were going to do no good until the wound was cleaned out.

We started with a blow-by-blow of the A, and I was able to ask any and all questions I wanted/needed. FWH could not hold back on ANYTHING that I asked. I could take however much time I needed to in order to do this. It was our very first step.

Thanks for all the insight, help and advise.

I am concerned that hbh is not going to ALLOW BaT to meet any of her needs until she is sure she knows the whoooooole story.

She is certain he is still lying/covering up things, and he is. She is also going to continue LBing the h*ll out of him as long as he is still protecting himself by lying.

ETA: And he is going to continue LBing HER by lying, including lies of omission. She will never allow him to meet her ENs while this is occurring.