I don't really know what to do. I feel like I ruined everything. I was 2 yrs into my marriage and very unhappy. My hubby was very distant, refusing sex at every turn, refusing to kiss, and basiclly refusing me any emotional ...anything! I was at the end of my rope! It felt like we had become roommates. We had finally gotten a computer and I discovered chatrooms, then I discovered how nice people can be when trying to get sex from woman in my position. I realize that it was wrong for me to do what I did and wish I could go back and just not do that. Well, it all went downhill from there and I had had sex with 6 other men, which just made me feel even worse because each consecutive guy never wanted to see me again.
I eventually confessed to my husband, but once he realized what I was beginning to confess to it turned from my willing confession, to a frighteningly forced confession. I have never cried so hard in my life for him to forgive me and not to leave me. He left for a short time that night, and came back and initiated sex?!? I thought he would never touch me again! There where several ocasions after that he did that and it was just so angry.
Over the past few years since it's gotten better, but I just don't feel he really loves me anymore. I feel like he thinks I deserve whatever he gives, he punished me on a regular basis and I punished myself all the time. It took years before I could forgive myself and he's trying to forget. His hurtful comments are less and less. He used to called me a whore or somehow refered to me in a derogotory manor. I think it has impacted our sex life because I had always asked for sex and always been refused. He still thinks of me as a sex-crazed induvidual and I feel so tarnished. I think of renewing our vows sometimes, but then I think that's what couples do when one of the spouses doesn't ruin everything by being well a slut( I'm sorry if I seem so blunt, but I'm thinking of my situation, not anyone elses). I struggle with the "how can I hate the very thing that I did" a lot. And how does he feel? He was married twice before me and both of those ex's cheated on him. He's not a bad person, he's really a nice guy.
It's just that he didn't understand the emotional part of this whole marriage thing. He thinks I need to accept that he won't kiss me ( the sex issue has gotten somewhat better though), and every other "mean" thing he does. Can someone help?

Let me start by saying I am not trying to judge your WW behavior one way or another. My Dh was a W and I LOVE him so I am not about to make judgemnets about whether Waywards are good or bad people.
That being said, I have a couple of comments on your post.


Were you expecting to give a quite confession and have your BH listen patiantly until you have completed ripping his heart out ? His response sounds pretty normal and mild to me.



I am assuming that once they became a WW is when they also became an Ex. So I guess my first question is why did he decide to continue to R with you when the other 2 M's broke for the same causes.

Do you have kids together?
Knowing that previous A
s did not help the previous ( I am assuming troubled ) M what made you think that an A would help solve your problems.

Yes we have kids....I think that is the only reason he stayed then. I really didn't think the A's would help anything. At the time I guess I was so emotionally depleted that I just ...I don't know what I was thinking, I just know that I was hurt and angry with him. This happened 5 years ago and I have grown up considerably since then.
I didn't know how he would react with the confession, it's just with his reaction I was expecting to be beaten within an inch of my life and I was just in a pile on the floor trying to block my face so he couldn't hit me there. But, to my surprise he never did hit me. I just wasn't expecting THAT. Yelling, yes, just not so physically ...I'm not sure if overbearing is the right word or not, but I was SCARED to death of him.
But, how can this be fixed? He just doesn't really act like he loves me, but he really didn't act head over heels after we got married.

I don't really know what to do. I feel like I ruined everything.
Not everything, but you've done a pretty good job of getting things pretty messed up.

I was 2 yrs into my marriage and very unhappy. Attempt at justification. This is no excuse for an affair.

My hubby was very distant, refusing sex at every turn, refusing to kiss, and basiclly refusing me any emotional ...anything! This sentence looks to be a form of extreme language - the likelihood he was refusing ALL forms of affection is unlikely. Therefore, you are rewriting history here, and the facts are most likely less severe in real life than you are coloring them here. Put things into perspective, and look at them in reality - again, this extreme type of language is still attempting to justify your behavior.

I was at the end of my rope! It felt like we had become roommates. Do you see the repetition? Still, you are justifying the affair here - giving us reasons why you think what you did was reasonable.

It WASN'T a solution, or a reasonable behavior. You need to see that, and understand that these "reasons" are not valid.

We had finally gotten a computer and I discovered chatrooms, then I discovered how nice people can be when trying to get sex from woman in my position. They weren't "nice". They were using you. And you recognized that, and went along with it. SIX TIMES.

I realize that it was wrong for me to do what I did and wish I could go back and just not do that. Well, it all went downhill from there and I had had sex with 6 other men, which just made me feel even worse because each consecutive guy never wanted to see me again. At which point did you see this? The question is serious, because if it was after OM number one, or two, or three...then the question should be, "Why didn't you stop then?" Why did it take six men, or was the truth really that you were not in control of your decision making, or was there something else going on leading you to make these decisions? This is NOT something that your husband's behavior led you to. This is YOUR decision making, not your husband's.


I eventually confessed to my husband, but once he realized what I was beginning to confess to it turned from my willing confession, to a frighteningly forced confession. What I see here is that you view your husband's questions regarding your affairs, and your very poor choice-making and risky behavior as a "forced confession". This would tell me that you were not comfortable telling the whole truth about what you did, and not ready to own it all. That's not unusual - but let's talk the truth here. Your husband's anger is not surprising, is it? And he has a right to the truth of his life, which is to know the exact truth of your sexual exploits outside the marriage - it affects his life - and your full and complete confession is owed to your husband. Your distaste for that, and sense of feeling forced, is the price you must pay.


I have never cried so hard in my life for him to forgive me and not to leave me. He left for a short time that night, and came back and initiated sex?!? Not unusual - he felt the need to reclaim his territory, perhaps, or maybe to understand himself and his feelings, or something else. There are many reasons this happens.


I thought he would never touch me again! There where several ocasions after that he did that and it was just so angry. The feelings a BS goes through during SF after an affair can run from anger to sadness to desperation to....you name it. This isn't a surprise.


Over the past few years since it's gotten better, but I just don't feel he really loves me anymore. You CAN get help with this here at MB. Do the EN questionnaire, and start filling his EN, and get on the track of doing the things that get you two together for 15 hours a week for the quality time you need as a couple.

I feel like he thinks I deserve whatever he gives, he punished me on a regular basis and I punished myself all the time. It took years before I could forgive myself and he's trying to forget. It takes about two years on average - after the wayward spouse begins to really work at a proper marital recovery - to truly see the marriage come back on track after an affair is revealed to a betrayed spouse. So the fact that it has taken "years" isn't unusual. You two need to do some work, and maybe things could get much better.


His hurtful comments are less and less. He used to called me a [censored] or somehow refered to me in a derogotory manor. He was angry. This isn't justified by any means - although it isn't unusual for namecalling and lovebusting to happen after an affair. You two can work on this - look at the MB program for lovebusting, fix YOURS, and watch his behavior change.

I think it has impacted our sex life because I had always asked for sex and always been refused. Do you see your extreme language here? ALWAYS asked,,,,,ALWAYS been refused. That means NEVER ONE TIME did he ask for sex, and NEVER ONE TIME did he take you up on an offer. Hard to believe.


He still thinks of me as a sex-crazed induvidual and I feel so tarnished. You two need to talk about this - maybe YOU think that is what he thinks. You feel tarnished, but maybe there are things you can do in his eyes to rehabilitate your image. The MB plan does offer ideas - look at them and DO THEM.



I think of renewing our vows sometimes, but then I think that's what couples do when one of the spouses doesn't ruin everything by being well a slut( I'm sorry if I seem so blunt, but I'm thinking of my situation, not anyone elses). Some couples renew vows to give one another a chance to start over with a clean slate - to just start the marriage fresh. My H and I did this, so he could show me that he did mean our vows, in spite of his affair. It helped me in my recovery from the affair. You might try offering your H this ceremony - you might be surprised at his response. And no, it does not help to go around calling yourself names. If you do not believe in your own ability to change, how can you convince him you can?


I struggle with the "how can I hate the very thing that I did" a lot. You can hate the very thing you did because you know it to be the most despicable act someone can perpetrate. You know, because you did it, and you know because you have experienced it in the worst possible way - you used this weapon to hurt the one you love. So you CAN hate infidelity - because you know the darkness from which it emerges, and you know where it can take a person.


And how does he feel? He was married twice before me and both of those ex's cheated on him. He's not a bad person, he's really a nice guy. The fact that you ask this question shows you are on the road to understanding. You still need to work, though, because there are things you haven't figured out yet. Like your next statement. You come close to it, then you pull back!!!


It's just that he didn't understand the emotional part of this whole marriage thing.
This statement is very telling. You seem to think that your husband didn't understand the emotional part of the marriage thing. YOU DIDN'T. Instead of going outside the marriage to get your emotional needs met, you had another choice. You made the wrong choice! And you did it six times over before you figured it out. The plan is not working if you keep doing the wrong thing over and over, then wait for years before you confess.

You fixed NOTHING with your affairs.

And now, you are still facing the same problems, only compounded with the infidelity.


And still looking to your husband's problems with emotional difficulties as the "issue".


You have it wrong.

The "issue" is not what you think it is.


He thinks I need to accept that he won't kiss me ( the sex issue has gotten somewhat better though), and every other "mean" thing he does. Again, it isn't your husband being "mean".



Read the MB concepts.

Look at the Emotional Needs Questionnaire. Fill it out for yourself, and if your H won't fill one out, you fill one out as though you were him. Then, spend at least three weeks filling his top three needs as you have identified them.


Spend time with him - try for 15 hours per week.

Practice openness and honesty with him.

Meet HIS sexual needs, his way, for awhile. See if this changes his behavior to meeting yours.


And after three weeks doing things the MB way, see if things are more on track - and in the meanwhile, read the threads here to learn why I say you have much to learn. Learn it.

I'm on your side, even though I gave you some 2X4's. You sound like you are on the road, but you need a MAP.
Schoolbus

Can someone help?

Did you get extensively tested for STD's and HIV?

If I were your BH, I wouldn't go near you with a ten foot pole until that happened and I saw the written results.

All Blesings,
Jerry

Wow...
Well, with the kissing he might kiss me once every 6 months. He very rarely kisses me during sex. That happens maybe once a year. He says he does not like kissing. I truly do not understand this. It was like this before the A's.
We went 6 months without sex, just constantly refused me. this was before the A's though.
I really feel he doesn't get what I need. I more than likely do not get what he need either.

He often said how could I do that if I loved him....that's my own question as well. How could I?
After this all sunk in of what I've done, I would think how could I do that to him!?! What kind of person does this? And breaks vows. I feel like my memories from before the A's and of dating him are void somehow and he no longer feels that way for me.

W02,

You just got some great insight into the fact that your extreme thinking is a way of "justifying" what you did. As long as your H thinks you are "justifying" there is little chance for a good recovery.

Now here is something else you should consider. Do you have any idea of the emotional baggage your H brought to this marriage??? Did you two talk about his previous marriages and the effects the affair had on him? How long was it between each of his marriages???

I'm going to assume for a moment that you really did not talk about his emotional baggage and do a little speculating for a moment. I am going to speculate that he brought ALOT of emotional baggage into each subsequent marriage. (This alone is why you need to work the MB plan even if you divorced, to lay down the baggage and learn from your experience).

What sort of baggage would one speculate he brought to your marriage? Let me see:

1. A general distrust of women.

2. A general distrust of himself. After all he had two women he presumably loved stab him in the back and cheat on him.

3. Some high and I mean HIGH walls to protect his heart. Your description of the marriage before your affairs, strongly suggests this is true.

So then you come along and what do you do? YOu do what his other wives did, you cheated on him? Now he is asking do I dare take my walls down? NOPE! She has already stabbed me ( is that 6 times?). Will she do it again? I don't see why not every other woman I have loved did, including her. So if I stay with her for the kids, I will protect myself emotionally.

I think that is exactly what he is doing.

However, there is something else at play here that YOU need to be aware of. You talked about how you feel. You talked about his anger. But you have not talked about how he feels about himself. You want to have a clue what he feels about himself.

In short, he feels "INADEQUATE".

People that feel 'inadequate' sexually, personally, emotionally, don't stick their neck out very far especially have THREE W's have cheated on them. YOu want to make this marriage better, you need to start to step into his shows and imagine what you would feel if you were he. What you would need if you were he to let the walls down. What pain you feel every time you looked in the mirror and the person looking back is someone you KNOW is a failure with women.

If you change your perspective and start to treat him as a man that has been deeply wounded and has no self-confidence, you might have a chance to change things around. You cannot heal him, but you can put salve on the wounds. And please don't think that "I am sorry" is putting salve on the wounds.

What puts salve on the wounds is getting to really know your H and his fears. You talking about things that you think and have learned from your affairs that could/would positively effect your relationship with him. It will be hard to get him to talk as he is very very afraid of you right now.

You say "but I was SCARED to death of him". What you don't see is that "he IS SCARED TO DEATH OF YOU."

Time to quit staring at yourself and start looking at the man you damaged so badly. It will help both of you if you start with that. It will also help you understand the articles on this site if will do this.

God Bless,

JL

F--- the statistics, I see more women on here that cheat than men, am I wrong?

wife, you need to grow up. You are addicted to the high of A, you need to turn this around.

Wife,

He was married twice before me and both of those ex's cheated on him. He's not a bad person, he's really a nice guy

I think he was terrified of trusting another woman, and may never have dealt with the fallout from his first two wives. Did he ever confront any of the OM's or is he a conflict avoider?

His sixth sense may have told him you were looking before you even knew, that might be why he maintained distance.

When my wife had her "EA" I was crushed, but felt it was just something that happens, since it had occurred with prior girlfriends, so I buried it for years. I equated my wife with those prior experiences and felt it was just more of the same. I began to wonder what was wrong with ME.

I think you need to try and see things through your husbands eyes, read some of the BH threads here for insights.

Please get STD tested, you could have an undiagnosed condition, swingers brag about how they only swing with "clean" people, but that's rubbish.

Gamma

Your memories are skewed. My job involves memory, cognition and analysis of language - and so I am considered well schooled in this arena.

The memory has a tendency to believe that the way it "feels now" is the way it "has always felt". This is a very common error of memory, and a way we get into making errors in judgement. Because we rely on our feelings to make judgements, we say, "Oh, I feel this way, and so I must have always felt this way." That's your brain, making a HUGE MISTAKE. When you do that, you need to stop and really analyze your feelings over time - look back realistically and ask yourself about your feelings.

How did you feel the day you met your husband? The first time he kissed you? The day he asked you to marry him? Those feelings were not the way you felt the day you went to have the first affair, yet your mind at the time might say differently.

That's why I brought it to your attention the use of the words "never" and "always". These words are errors in the system - the system that tells us how we truly feel. Once you change that wording, you begin to be able to see how things REALLY are, and not just cast them into the light of being that way or the other ALL THE TIME. Because looking at the way we say things works backwards into the brain, and tells the brain to slow down and look at things again - to look for that error in the system.

Your word "void" is another example. Your memories are not "void". You two could be passing over memories that validate good things - and maybe focusing only on memories that validate the negative - in order to make the point that the relationship is in the tank.

So okay - the relationship has problems. Why belabor the point?

The focus CAN change - it can change to look closer at the specific things:

1. What is RIGHT about the relationship?
2. What SPECIFICALLY is not right about the relationship?
3. What can we do as a team to work toward improving the relationship?

The answers can all be found in the Marriage Builders Basic Concepts - read them.

Also, find the books "After the Affair", and "Surviving An Affair". Both are very good for dealing with the things you are talking about - they can answer some of the questions you bring up.

Surviving An Affair was written by Dr. Harley, who owns this site. The other is by another author, and I found pretty helpful as a betrayed spouse, so your husband might want to look at it.

And his question, "How could you do that?" isn't unusual! I asked the same thing! I often said, "That isn't LOVE!!! You don't do that to someone you love!" Yet, I stayed married. My H and I recovered our marriage.

Why not ask your husband to log on here? We might be able to help him out, too!

SB

Yes , and somehow I escaped STD's.

I think you hit the nail on the head! I think ths is exactly how he feels. I feel absolutly terrible about this.

Where do I start, I feel like I am on info overload. He has never really opened up to me and he has always had this wall. When we where dated I sensed it was somewhat lowered, but as soon as we married it was like he was on high alert and acted as if I had either already done something wrong or was about to. He even defended me when we were dating because someone had accused me of cheating on him. Now, I feel like he thinks he shouldn't have defended me. He bought that up once. I know he is hurting, and I am too, but not nearly the way he is.

I do want to say that I WAS addicted to the A's. I have grown up since then and I realize the devistation I have caused. I don't feel like I have the right to hurt about this because it is my fault. I do not want to justify what I did, because I think what I did was dispicable.

I do love my hubby very much, he doesn't believe that I love him, but I think he is slowly believing it again. I don't even feel like I have the right to say I love him most of the time. I do feel very repentant. I wish I could go back in time to tell myself what will happen if I did this..I know that's rediculous, but the thought occurs to me often.

Wife,

Welcome. You've come to the right place to give yourself the best chance of having a loving marriage.

How many of the OMs you banged were married?


Good. Then please don't do it. Schoolbus is very much on the mark.


Good. It was and it's good that you see this.

Stay with us here.

best,
GH31

All at once, or one at a time?

Seriously, do the kindest thing you can for this man. Divorce him, give him everything in the divorce, and let him try again to find real love fore the 4rth time.

Out of everyone I personally know. All but two women have cheated (12 count) Only two men I know have.

That is my personal experience.

Really...this is supposed to help? I think in my case it would add insult to injury. In his other two marriages the wives filed, not him. I asked if he would still be married to the first one and he said he didn't know, but I think he might would have been married to her longer. Divorce is not the answer in my situaiton. I don't see how it's your business how I cheated but they where one at a time.

I hear you guys on the wives cheating club, I made a whole thread on that observation...or question, 'am I crazy or are there a lot of cheating wives out there'...?

'wife2'...my FWW cheated on me with 5 OM, about 21 years ago, I just found out almost 6 months ago.

Sucks.

That depends on you.
If you even believe there is the slightest possibility you will ever even think about cheating again, then yes. Letting the poor man go would be more humane than putting him through this again.

You will have to implement extraordinary precautions to avoid ever even getting even close to a position where you could cheat.

That includes things like never using a computer with an active internet connection without supervision.

Now before you jump to "I'll never cheat again" think about this...

I bet you where 100% sure you would/could never cheat when you married your husband. If you where 100% sure then, what is different now?

EP's are the only way to be 100% certain, can you implement them?


It was rhetorical.

W2, I have read your thread several times and haven't answered because I didn't know exactly what to say. I am a FWW. My A was almost 4 years ago. I crossed all sorts of lines with a coworker and made the horrible choice to have an EA/PA. Worst thing I ever did.

These are some things (not necessarily and exhaustive list) that I think are non-negotiables for the (F)WS: complete disclosure, taking 100% responsibility for the affair, examining the WHY (not excuses, but what blind spots did I have, boundaries weren't firm enough), complete honesty in ALL aspects of relationship, extreme sensitivity to my H's hurt and needs. This was like the starting line, of that makes sense.

Regarding martial issues that were there before A, they may have caused discontent with the M, but they did not cause an A. There are other options besides an A. That being said, the reason I wasn't sure how to post is because I feel some of the hurt that is on your posts. A or no A, baggage or no baggage, it does hurt when your spouse doesn't want to have SF, doesn't want to kiss you, seems to be aloof. It just does, and nothing gets around that.

Now, the vets may have better advice here, but this is what I have come up with for now. One question to ask is, "Did I know or sense that these things were present (or absent) while we were dating/engaged?" I knew H for 7 years before we got married. We had dated a couple of times. I remember him saying that he didn't like feeling like he HAD to kiss me. I remember fearing before our wedding that he might want to sleep on our wedding night rahter than....you know. When we had the "sex" session in premarital counseling and it was time for us to talk to our pastor individually, the pastor asked me what my biggest concern was. I said "that he won't want to have SF as much as I do." The pastor kind of chuckled and made some comment about how if that was my biggests fear then H was one lucky man. So looking back, I had inklings. I got married anyway.

Now, I have a choice. I can to gymnastics to try to somehow MAKE H into a "love machine." That isn't who he is; it never has been. Or I can be open and honest, and we can come to some sort of agreement, and I can let go of the desire for something that he is not able to give. Or I can just suffer in silence and die inside. The first option is not an option. The third option was one of the huge mistakes I made that led to the A. So I am working on #2.

Let me say I love my H. He is an amazing man. I have not said anything with the intent of dissing him. He rocks. We are just different in this area. If he were here, he might write some of the same stuff, except he would insert DS instead of SF. We are a work in progress.

I would examine yourself and make sure you have done/are doing all the things that should be done regarding your A. Then find out what his needs are, and work on meeting them. Be honest in a loving way about your needs. Hopefully as he becomes more secure he will be better able to meet them.

Well, I am 100% sure I won't cheat now. Why? Well, I saw the damage I did. A part of me wants to die when I see the damage I did to my husband. I contemplated suicide several times and I feel the only thing that kept me from it was our daughter. A part of me feels that I can't say that I love him because I feel I have no right. I asked him if he wanted to do a vow renewal and he said that those words don't mean anything, and not just us. I suggested writing vows and he said he wouldn't know how to do that. At some point I asked him if I meant anything to him and all he said was I was a wife and mother. I really just wanted to know if I meant anything to him anymore. I beat myself up over this inside on a daily basis, I feel like I deserve a beating from him, I feel I deserve broken bones and black eyes, I feel I deserve whatever he dishes out to me. I feel I deserve the name calling, I call myself worse. I feel like I am a no good, low down rotten excuse for a wife.
I just can't seem to express my remorse for this. All I did was hurt him, and hurt him over and over....how can he look at me let alone have sex with me?

Sorry the rhetorical seems to go over my head in this medium. I avoid going to the places that I went when I was cheating, I had yahoo messenger from my computer. I rarely go anywhere alone.I am completely honest about where I'm going and what I am doing (like when I go to the gym).