wife 02

I am a wayward. A lot of what you say echoes exactly how I feel as far as "feeling bad" and "knowing you won't do it again because you have seen the hurt it caused."

Follow the advice of the folks on here. It can only help. Specifically pay attention to folks that encourage you to not think of yourself but instead think of your H and K's.

Don't harbor a desire to be beat up. I have been there in the past. It is not healthy for anyone involved.

Try to make a written plan for recovery and get buy in from your H. Sepcifically outline your plans for transparency including EP (extraordinary precaustions).

Be grateful that your H is still around so you can have a remote chance of repairing what you have done.

Prepare yourself for what many of the BS's on this forum will say to you. Many have told me my M has no chance of being repaired and that divorce is the only option. I find it slightly confusing because if a BS posts, there is nothing but encouragement about how even the worst M ca be salvaged. But, as a wayward, I have no choice but to respectfully listen. Learn to accept it and realize that what ulitmately happens with your M is for God, you, and your H to decide.

Listen to the constructive advice on the forum, read SAA and the articles on this site, make a written plan, and prepare for the hardest work of your life. Good luck.

Very nicely written, U2.

Wife, never underestimate the value of a well thought out and executed plan.

w02

You were wrong to have an affair.

You were wrong to ignore the that WW1 had SF met outside of marriage.

You were wrong to ignore the that WW2 had SF met outside of marriage.

Now you with you his WW3, you ignored that BH did not want to kiss.

BH needs IC as to why he does not want to meet his wives need for SF.

It is just as wrong for your BH to not SF his W as it was for you to SF the OM.

Considering that you were only married TWO years before you had the A's I would sort of have to agree that the s were there about the incomplatility regarding SF issues.
Now why or how they exist in your relationship with your H ...
However unless you 2 can have an O&H communication about those I am not sure how they can be resolved.

Given his prior history with WW's I agree that he needs IC to try and figure out how he going to heal himself.
The M was for 2 years and the A was 5 years ago. Seems to me that your BH has really not had any healing for the past years to help him deal with issues from your A and perhaps even prior A's.
5 years is a LONG time to pass just goes to show that TIME ALONE does not heal wounds. He actually has to be actively doing something to help himself.
I am glad that you are trying to help heal and Recover your M but IMHO unless he gets some help for himself I am not sure how he can show up to participate in a M.
Have you tried recomending to him to visit here like Schollbus advised in one of her earlier posts?

It *feels* like that now, but feelings are temporary and they change. Eventually the remorse will be gone and you'll be feeling neglected again, then you'll feel entitled... then what?

THAT is what you need to consider.

What actions can you take to ensure that you will never have an affair again? Promising yourself that you won't, or saying you've learned your lesson, are not good enough.

You are on the right track when you say you gave up Yahoo messenger.

Other things you might consider:
Putting a key logger on your computer(s) and having the reports emailed to your BH.
Getting a cellphone that has GPS built into it and keeping it with you and powered on at all times so BH always knows where you are.

Start thinking along lines of behavioral changes and actions, rather than feelings. Feelings cannot be trusted. So... what are you going to do to ensure you never have another A?

The reason this is so important is because you must do backflips to ensure your BH feels safe. It will take a long time, and it will take verifiable behavioral changes. Telling him you've learned your lesson is not going to carry much weight with him or help him to feel very safe. As it shouldn't.

You are doing great, IMO. It is a long slow journey but you are definitely on the path.

wife_02

The BASIC CONCEPTS of Marriage Builders gives you the key ingredients for how you can help your marriage recover.

Order the books Surviving an Affair, and After the Affair, and read them. Those books can offer you a lot of very concrete ideas that you can do that will work. The books not only describe marriages before and after affairs, but give you guidelines for getting things back on track - and Surviving An Affair is written by the sponsors of this website. After the Affair isn't, but it is a good resource for the betrayed spouse - and it helps in understanding the feelings and some of the processes in affairs. Your husband may find himself looking back at his previous marriages and seeing his behavior and response to affairs in a whole new light.

You need a PLAN.

You need to have things in writing.


Your husband needs to see this plan - but you don't have a chance until you have a complete understanding of what happened and WHY YOU WENT WAYWARD.

At this point, you still focus on your husband's problems, and how he didn't fulfill you.

That isn't why you strayed.


That isn't why you cheated.

That isn't the problem.


You cheated because you violated your own morals.

Focus on YOURSELF. You cannot control your husband - you control one person in your marriage, and that is YOURSELF.

Always remember those words. You control one person in the marriage - yourself.


If you can grasp that concept, you then gain control of everything.

Because your behavior can literally change the landscape of your marriage. YOUR BEHAVIOR from this point forward can change how your husband responds to you. In fact, it always has.


You just haven't ever figured that out.


What you give to him, how you support him, how safe you make him feel, how he sees your changes, how confident he becomes in your dedication to him, how secure in your love he becomes...will be returned to you tenfold. Everything you are willing to give to him - FIRST - will be repaid.

You have to make the first move. For now, you have to pave the road with PROOF. He will not walk behind you until he sees pavement.


Read the books. Read this website. Learn what you have to DO EVERY DAY, day after day after day after day, to make him see your changes and feel what you say you feel inside.


That is how your marriage will change. There is no other pathway.

Schoolbus

OK, The surviving an affair book...OK, these books are talking about affairs as in one spouse fell in love with another person, I didn't fall in love with one particular man. How can I apply it to myself? I do want to get it once I can figure out how to apply it...what I mean to say is I am going to order it once I finish this post. Hubby and I are going to start counseling next week so I am hoping that will help us as well.
We have come aways, he no longer tries to say wrong numbers are men I cheated with. I think that's a step towards trust.

W02,

You said
What you are missing is that you will learn a lot about your H and how he thinks. As you read a given history, ask your H if this is how he saw things? Ask, him questions about the recovery and how he would like to see this. You will also see how affair begin. You say you will nver cheat and I say, that is bunk. You don't know about marriages and how to make them work. You will learn many things about how to make a relationship work and so will your H.

I won't quibble that that some imporvement has been made but I will quibble that you have made as much progress as you can and will if both of you address your issues. Please read all of the articles here and then read Harley's book. A lot of things will make more sense to both of you as you assimilate the information here.

God Bless,

JL

'Wife2', you had many OM, as my wife did. Hers were many years ago, Dday 6 months ago. To try and get into the mind of a wife who sleeps with several men, is there a reason you were with so many?

It seems most WS have one OP. My wife says she never loved any of the OM, as you did, I think? Is it because you didn't find what you thought you were looking for in one guy, so you tried to find it in another, and another?

I am not trying to talk down to you, but when I ask my wife the same thing I do not get very clear responses, and yes I am trying to help myself out as we just had another trust issue sitch come up and she failed.

I worry about long term trust and will it ever come back.

Wife02, I think you have a number of questions to ask yourself.

You married a man who had been married twice before; both wives had cheated on him, and neither wife was interested in recovering the marriage with him. This suggested he had either a pattern of poor wife-picking, or limited ability to make a happy marriage. Or, of course, that he was just horribly unlucky. What was your thinking?

There must, presumably, have been some kind of physical and emotional intimacy before you agreed to marry him? Did he dislike kissing / sex then, or did he change dramatically after marriage? If there was limited intimacy, what were your expectations for the marriage?

You sought extramarital attention via the internet, where real intimacy can be avoided in favour of fantasy. As you eventually realised.

What would you say that your pattern of choices is?

TA

The OM I was with ...they where using me. I was only with one of them twice and he was using me as well. At that time in my marriage I don't believe I knew what I wanted. No one was quite like my husband, I feel like I was looking for someone that was exactly like him, but had that "romantic" quality. I feel like I may have been acting out in some ways. I don't want to place blame on anything but myself. I knew it was wrong. But, with that said when I was doing this, something about it made me feel like a teenager. I wasn't completely after sex, I wanted attention. I wanted the high...I liked looking at men...
I am now deeply remorseful and I hate that I hurt my husband and my marriage. When I see OM in passing all I feel is pain over what I did to my husband, I really don't know how to describe my own pain. I have no pain over not being able to be with them, nothing like that at all. I feel like I deserve anything I get for what I did and I don't feel like I can be punished enough. My husband is starting to trust me again, but I am very careful not to do things that make him think I am "preparing" for sex. The only places I go without him are to the gym and to the store. I don't always take the cell phone, but I will take it with my from now on. It seems suspicious if I don't now that I think about it. I have no way of contacting OM. I actually saw an OM today and I completely avoided him, I wanted NO contact what so ever and NO eye contact whatsoever. I had went to my husbands job(I had suffered a fall inside of a store yesterday and was stopping by his work to tell him what the doc had said) I saw OM going in there and the pain that went through me as I watched my husband wait on him and the whole time my husband does not know who he is. It makes me sick to think my poor hubby has to wait on them and he doesn't know who they all are, he knows one. I just almost feel like vomiting right now as I right this...I really can't wait to move and get out of this small town and just sort of start over.

As a BS, what can a WS do to show that they are truly remorseful and truly sorry...I would crawl around on my knees begging his forgiveness if I thought that would help. What's the first thing I should read on this site? I've been reading different things here and I want his perspective...Hubby says he has a scar on him and just doesn't know what to feel anymore after ALL his hurts

'Wife2', you had many OM, as my wife did. Hers were many years ago, Dday 6 months ago. To try and get into the mind of a wife who sleeps with several men, is there a reason you were with so many?

It seems most WS have one OP. My wife says she never loved any of the OM, as you did, I think? Is it because you didn't find what you thought you were looking for in one guy, so you tried to find it in another, and another?

I am not trying to talk down to you, but when I ask my wife the same thing I do not get very clear responses, and yes I am trying to help myself out as we just had another trust issue sitch come up and she failed.

I worry about long term trust and will it ever come back.



[/quote]

Okay - now we're uncovering some issues here. You have not come clean with him yet. He deserves to know each and every one of the OM's. You owe him this, and any detail he wants to know. No wonder his recovery has been slow.

Hmmm, the first wife was interested...she came back after she filed , but hubby was done at that point and he won't really talk about it. I think in some ways he's still in love with her. He kept the weddings pictures.
Both of these women left him for women, something about that tells me that they may have been looking for sensetivity or may be just taken leave of all senses. On one of our dates in the beginning hubby asked me if I had "lesbian tendancies".
We did have premarital sex and he seemed to enjoy it then as well as kissing. He never pulled away from me then, unless it was the morning. The change in him was drastic, we had went to TN to get married. The day before he seemed fine, the day of I think he was ok and I think I was too nervous to notice. As we walked to the truck I could sense a change and I know there was a change by the time we had gotten to a resturant. I could feel it. I'm not sure what was going through his mind, if he was scared, if he was thinking of the child I was carrying at the time (yes I was pregnant when we married and no I was not trying to "trap him"). We did have sex after we got back, but he started to quit keeping track of things. He kept track of our weekly anniversaries (which I though was a little odd, but it was ok). And when we where talking about what kind of wedding rings, I said that I didn't like gold and if it was OK I wanted silver. He said he thought that was a good sign because both his exes wanted gold and his parents had silver (they've been married for 41 years as of this year). He always made comparisons that seemed minor at the time as in we married in June and both the failed marriages began in Oct. and lasted 18 mo. (both of them).
I only looked via the internet because I had limited contact with actual people. Once I went to work as a cashier in a gas station I met all kinds of people.
My pattern of choices as in what exactly? My poor choices as in the As or my life. I have way too many poor choices.

Whoaaa........

Are you saying that your BH doesn't know about each and every OM you've been with?

Does he know ther were six in total?

I can't believe he didn't ask for each of their identities.

What's missing here????

All Blessings,
Jerry

I don't even know for absolute certain it was him because I wouldn't look at him, I don't even remember their names...or his name.
Hubby hasn't asked for any names since my confession. As hard as I try to remember names, I can't.

I cannot believe I am even asking this because it is kind of my pet peeve. But when you say you have a lot of bad choices, what do you mean (if it's relevant). When you had your A's, were you really sexually-oriented? Do these things come in cycles? I ask because in my life I had cycles of bad choices. The pinnacle was my A, during which time my personality completely changed. I won't get all long winded, but one thing that happened before D-Day but during my A was that I was diagnosed as bipolar. That has since been confirmed by 2 other docs. It does NOT excuse any of my A, but it does explain a lot about some of the patterns in my life.

Like I said, this armchair psychology junk gets on my nerves, but something about your posts and the multiple OM's struck me. I only had one OM, but my sex-focus was off the charts while manic.

He knows that there where 6. He asked for identities when I confessed, there was only one he was particularly interested in. But, yes he knows there where 6 and I named the names I could remember, but there are some names I can't remember and he knows that.

I don't disagree.

But I will make an observation.

If I had found out 6 months after D day there had be others, that would have been the end of it. He may be different. I would not reveal anything more until a full discussion with the Harleys. And if I were in her shoes, I would be calling them yesterday.

Larry

My bad choices began when I was 19 and I gave my virginity to a man who was only using me. He was extremely rough with me and injured me. I am still reminded of that on a regular basis. The injury no longer causes physical pain but none the less still hurts. My next bad choice was becoming invovled with a drug addict and masturbation addict. I was constantly being hurt by him and his "hand" addiction. I became pregnant by him and lost the baby at 22 weeks. My first DD was born alive and died 12 hours later. I had to endure Christmas right after her death. I moved back home with my parents and had to deal with my mother trivalizing her death and my grief. About April bad choice #2 begins to hound my older sister about me. He begged her to give me his phone number. Well after agonizing over this she gives it to me. Well, I am in the process of trying to get over him, I think I had just taken off the ring he had given me. Well, after talking to him and being reeled in by him I went back. I can't believe I went back...I had a full time job and had saved quite a bit of money and I had gotten back my self confidence. I have never felt better about myself as I have then. Stupid me thought he had changed so I went to go see him and got trapped by him. I wound up pregnant again and something that was willing turned into this kidnapping situation. I was physically abused by his friends and emotionally abused by him once again. I managed to run away one day and wound up in a Maternity home in VA. They tried finding me there around the time the baby was due but that was about it. I gave up my son for adoption.
After that I met someone online, he begged me to come and see in another state hundreds of miles away. Well, once again I fall for silvery words and came to see him and get stuck here. He uses me repeatedly for sex. Another masturbation addict, how do I find these guys? Anyway, after a few other guys I meet my hubby. He is a wonderfully stable change from all the others. He has a job and is supporting himself, something else that was refreshing to me, his sense of responsibility. It was so wonderful in the beginning, we would drive around in his big truck, and he would say flirty things to get me to slide up next to him. He took me to the dam and that's where he kissed me for the first time. I remember many kisses and he never shied away from one or turned away. He was very sweet and quiet and very kind. Although, there was one instance I began to think his love was pity. I could only find part time work and I was on food stamps, well, we had gone grocery shopping together and mind you this was around the second week. My food stamp card wasn't working..ie it had not been refilled when it should have been. Well, he pays for my groceries and tells me not to worry about it that he would take care of me. That still strikes me when I think about it because he was the first man that had ever said it and meant it and then I go and hurt him the way that I did.
Well, I got pregnant by him and on purpose, he said he wanted it too. We had a great relationship at that point and I never expected things to change. It changed hours after we married. We did have sex when we got home, but it was few and far between. At one point he refused me for 6 mo in the first year. It was as though he was angry with me. The second year was the really bad year, he refused me at every turn, except if he wanted it. We moved into a new house in Oct. not long after that we got the computer. We argued almost all the time. After the moved he always refused me, there was no attention and no kissing. I cheated not long after that. I felt pretty bad about it, but, later on in the next year I wasn't handling it very well, if you ask my hubby he would tell you he thought I was bi-polar and he would tell you that to this day. I can't really remember my behavior very well back then, but I just didn't feel like myself. I still don't feel calm like I used to. But sometime after that I had gotten a job at a gas station and there were all kind of men and I felt like I was on the prowl. I was angry with my husband for not giving me the attention I wanted. I didn't exactly feel like the same person as I did when I was dating and all the mistakes I had made then. It was like I was a different person when I had the As. I can't quite explain, but hubby says I am a different person from when we married.

Wow, so much of the last part of your post sounds familiar. I ONLY say this because after years of inner (and outer) hell, I finally feel like a real person now. A really GOOD, qualified IC might really be helpful for you.

I am so so sorry for all you have been through.