So sorry to hear that. I would be very afraid. But DS is talking to you about his feelings, and that is good. Will he discuss why he wishes he was dead?

I think you need to talk to his dad and let him know what is going on with DS. Don't expect any help from dad though.

Then you need to get DS counseling immediately. Take him with you, or find some counseling for kids in your city. Don't put it off.

And prayers going up for DS.

Lord, please put a hedge of protection around this family. I beg you to take DS in your arms and let him know you are near. Please come along side of prayerfulmomof2 and lend her your strength.

Satan, I rebuke you in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. Know that this family is being prayed for unceasingly.

I'm in agreement with believer Lord...Please send your angels and your peace to this family....Thank you.. in Jesus' name...

"Where two or more are gathered in My Name, I am in the midst of them....."

I was able to talk with WH tonight. I left him an initial message that said I HAD to talk with him TONIGHT no matter what time and sent him a text to listen to the voicemail and then call me. I got a call about 45 minutes later (he is at the station and was on a run when I called). We talked that obviously DS needed counseling and I stated that I think we ALL needed counseling and he seemed possibly open to this idea. He was going to talk to his Captain about info from the department options and I stated that I was able to talk to my counselor that I talked to on Saturday since she is a licensed marriage and family counselor. He was going to make phone calls tomorrow, because he felt strongly that action needed to be taken for our DS immediately.

Even though I know I supposed to show strength and happiness right now in plan A, I was falling apart while talking with him on the phone. I said I really was scared about this situation and really wished that he was here to hold me for strength. He stated that obviously that couldn't happen right now, but told me that I really needed to take care of myself and told me that I needed to try to get some sleep. He wished me a good night's sleep. As much as I hate for my DS to suffer right now, maybe this is the kick in the pants my WH needed in order to change his thinking and clear his fog.

Talked with MIL tonight when she called to talk to me. I shared with her about DS and we talked for quite awhile. We both are praying all the time for the guidance and protection of our family to guide us back together. I made sure that DS knew that he could call me, WH, MIL, FIL, and SIL any time that he needed and gave him the phone numbers. I told MIL to let FIL and SIL know DS phone number and that he might call if he needed anything when he couldn't get a hold of one of us!!

Oh, please give me the strength to support DS (11) and DD (7) through this process. Along with myself the strength to continue this fight and journey to reunite and heal our family.

Yes.. and bring it back a verse sister

Matthew 18:19 "Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

I am also in agreement with this Lord... thank you Lord for hearing us...In Jesus' mighty name...

Prayerful...
Don't worry... you did it because of your son...that will not work against you...He knows it's hard on you.. and at least you didn't "fall apart" for selfish reasons...Just... Back on track...you're doing great!

I'm not sure what your WH meant by "obviously that couldn't happen right now"
but I'd say that either way... I can't because I'm at the station... or I can't RIGHT NOW... are good signs...

That and the possibility of counseling for you guys is a very good sign. That along with the joining together to "save" your DS

Your WH doesn't seem to have the "mean streak" a lot of them do... this might not take as long as some to "turn around"
That was encouragement... don't run too far with it... STAY FOCUSED...this is a long process...everyday seems like a week...I know... but YOU CAN DO THIS!!

Cry here.... scream here... fall apart here rant here (just warn us of a rant coming so we don't rush you into Plan B for your protection)
We are faceless so don't be ashamed....we will be here as long as you need us.. and ALL of us have been where you are....and if you haven't noticed... we are all still alive....
YOU CAN DO THIS YOU CAN DO THIS YOU CAN DO THIS YOU CAN DO THIS YOU CAN DO THIS YOU CAN DO THIS YOU CAN DO THIS YOU CAN DO THIS ...with God's help... give him what you can't deal with...

GOoD Luck and Prayers Frank


.

What you are looking for is a licensed child play therapist. yea I know the name of the profession is a bit of a put off.

My best friend in life from way back in high school just retired from being exactly that, a child play therapist. MHMR around the various states are well aware of what those people do and how effective they can be with kids.

He taught me how to deal with ADHD kids. In fact, he is a big deal on an ADHD forum as a retirement project. But it is way more than ADHD. A Play Therapist most always includes BOTH mom and dad and the job is not only to diagnose the child and teach the child, they also teach the parents (the ones willing to learn) how to help the child deal with whatever is going on.

Most of the time, a Play Therapist operates through referrals from MHMR or a Doctor or a Therapist who is treating mom and dad for something or the other. Most of them take insurance and are registered with insurance companies, who work with them as part of insurance coverage.

I have no idea where you live, so I cannot recommend how to go about finding such a person in your area. I dunno about any except my buddy, but he told me he has blunt language to use for a parent(s) who are causing harm to their kids.

Larry

I know about Play Therapists and how most people don't always accept them as "real" or whatever but they are very helpful. I get the same type of response as I am a music therapist and people always thinks that it means I give piano lessons or something like that, which is not true. I was able to get information from an young girl with autism that normal talking would never get from her. I get more responses from the kids I work with than other therapists can get purely from the fact that the music allows my clients to express themselves in ways that other types of therapy the kids and adults resist. Other therapist love to co-treat with me. Will look into this today for him.

No, throughout this whole process, WH has not been mean, nasty, spiteful, or any of the typical ways that I have read about other WS's being. He repeatedly apologizes for things and talks, listens (at least after a few days he started to listen to what I had to say), and tries to be extremely helpful around the house (even though he isn't staying here. Everything is so confusing with him because he is acting one way and every once in a while says things like he doesn't want to or can't come home. I get a strong feeling that he is more ashamed of himself and angry with himself than not wanting to come home, be with the family, and work on the marriage. Maybe this will help to speed that process up since we are going to be there together for our DS. I can pray and hope!

Good for you. Yea, it is the name, doesn't sound serious enough, but MHMR and the professionals are all over the Play Therapists because it works. I had never heard of Music Therapists. That is very interesting and I will look it up to see what you do.



Larry

Prayers still going up.

Bad night tonight. WH and I were discussing what was going on with DS and DD and getting them into counseling. We unfortunately got into a bad conversation. No yelling or getting upset, but did discuss things that WH didn't really want to discuss. I asked if he would consider going to counseling too. His first reaction was "why? Nothings going to change." This led to more discussion, but I DID NOT GET UPSET YELL, ETC. I did talk and communicate like he always claims I won't do and he gets upset when I share with him how much I know about him. He hates to admit it (and won't) but he knows I am right and that really irritates him.

He told me that he couldn't believe I hadn't told my mom yet about what was going on (almost as if to call my bluff about telling her and to try to irritate me) and so tonight, I called my mom and told her what was going on. I told her that I needed her to NOT be MAD at WH right now because that is the last thing he needs right now because that is what he wants from everyone. She agreed and the only thing she had a problem with was him coming over to pick the kids up tomorrow night from her house (probably because the news and everything was so fresh) and said that they would bring the kids home to meet WH when he gets to the house while I am at counseling. I know that she will not come and right now, she does not want to tell my dad what is going on. I agree. She was sorry that I didn't feel I could come to her sooner, but it explained a lot about how I was acting. Texted WH and told him that I told her about it.

WH was a little upset that I had been talking with his parents and sister about things behind his back. I reminded WH that he told me to go ahead and contact them. He new what they would think. (Once again, trying to call my bluff and didn't work like he thought.) Starting to expose little by little as much as I can and feel comfortable with. He is not getting to tell the story in his way and that feels a little good. I texted him later and asked if he would consider counseling (again not face to face) and he texted back that he will try. He gets frustrated and angry face to face but on the phone and texting he is able to not get the anger. He also is making much more eye contact. Back to plan A full force and not go back to the relationship stuff!!! Oops, I slipped, hate that I slipped, and will work to not slip again.

Hi, I am staying off here and just praying for you but I wonder if you could please explain this furthur so that others may help you:

" he gets upset when I share with him how much I know about him. He hates to admit it (and won't) but he knows I am right and that really irritates him."

What did he say about your DS's problems? Did he take any ownership?

My WH is a pretty open book when it comes to his feelings. He is more bark than bite about most things and, like I used to be, pretty predictable. WH tries to hide his feelings, but acts a specific way when he is mad or upset at himself or mad and upset at others. He doesn't like to admit that I know what those signals and signs are. My job is working with people with disabilities and many are non-verbal so I have had a lot of practice at reading body cues and non-verbal cues. Being with him for 16 years, he acts the same way and has the same cues when he is upset.

I have had my suspicions about the A for quite a while, but did not have any proof and didn't want to admit it. He acted differently than he usually did and I could feel him being different and a different sensation coming from him. While several times I straight out asked him questions about things, he would be upset because he knew that I knew, maybe not specifically what was going on, but that something was going on. It irritates WH that I am able to read these cues as well as I do, not perfect, but 18 years working with non-verbal individuals with disabilities gives you lots of practice of knowing what is going on. About 90% of the time, I can predict when specific clients are going to have behaviors or when a client is not feeling well. Two days before one of my clients went into the hospital, I told his mother that something was wrong and he seemed to be hurting. Others had spent the entire day with him and not noticed anything (which they saw what I was seeing and said they had seen him acting that way but didn't think there was anything wrong). Three weeks later, this 20 year client, passed away from pneumonia and being in cardiac failure.

I thank you for your prayers and appreciate when you have been trying to push me. My WH is seeing me act differently and trying to call my bluff by telling me to contact certain people or do certain things that he doesn't think I will do and I turn around and actually follow through on them. I had told him that I wanted to contact his family and a couple of his co-workers. He told me to go a head he knew what they would say. The fact that I followed through and actually contacted his parents and co-workers made him made. He actually asked me how I could go "behind his back" and contact his parents. I responded that I told him that I wanted to and he gave me his permission. He was more mad that I gave them my side of the story because he didn't think in a million years that I would contact them. (and talk with his sister).

Tonight, he "dared" me to tell my mother in a way by asking why I hadn't told her. After I sent him a few texts, I called her and told her what was going on (the whole story-from my side) and then sent him a text that I had done it, but my mom does not want to tell my dad at this point. I have not heard from yet again tonight and that is because, once again, I exposed him and he didn't believe I would do it. I am acting completely opposite of how I have been both showing him my positive, affectionate side along with standing up for myself and actually doing the things he "dares" me to that he never believes that I would ever do.

WH does take ownership, somewhat, in DS's problems. In face to face interactions when our relationship comes up, he seems real angry and upset refusing to own/admit to things, but then later when we text or talk on the phone, he does admit/take ownership. It is like he can not truly face me and admit things right now. At home in person, he will give excuses why not to go to counseling, but later will tell me that he will try to do counseling with me. The anger is keeping him from letting go of OW. Hanging in there with plan A, but some days are harder than others.

Right now I am struggling with feeling guilty about unloading on my mom. I am so worried that her emotions are completely out of control and she is blaming herself for our problems. I told her that it was not the fact that we did fight and argue, but it was how I handled the aftermath. I told her she was NOT allowed to blame herself, she cannot be angry and upset at WH (this is what he is wanting from others and it never helps his situation, just allows him to have more excuses not to take ownership), and no matter what, we are going to have to figure out how to do what is best for our children. The guilt of what I made her feel is eating me up tonight and I know I released on her out of anger towards my WH telling me that I would not actually do it. I really hope I didn't mess things up.

So, WH sent me a text asking about a security question answer. I was confused by the question so I decided to call him. First time I called, he picked up and then hung up before answering. I tried to call him back after a few seconds and he didn't answer. Hmmm??????

OK... Time out... WHY is your relationship coming up? You are in Plan "A" right... NO Love Busters...wanting him to own/admit things? Disrespectful Judgment...

Prayerful... Plan "A" is about becoming a person he WANTS to be with... who wants to be with someone that's pointing a finger at the things THEY did wrong...

You need to focus on what YOU did wrong...not saying you deserve this in anyway...you just had a hand in creating the environment that allowed the affair to take hold. You both did then he made the wrong choice...

SHE FILLS NEEDS THAT YOU DIDN'T/DON'T.... you HAVE to get this....
So you need to focus on what needs you don't/didn't fill and .....FILL THEM....

The natural reaction will be attraction....to YOU...

Just so you know...YOU probably fill some of the more important needs... like NO OTHER WOMAN can be the mother of those beautiful children... NONE....

You have to do a GOOD PLAN "A"... you don't have the time to make mistakes...
NO MORE RELATIONSHIP TALK WITH HIM....EVEN IF HE BRINGS IT UP...
change the subject... touch his arm and laugh and say.."OH.... let's not talk about that right now...How was work?" make him laugh...BE SOMEONE HE WANTS TO BE AROUND...

Do you think the OW talks about negative stuff with him... not likely....they laugh...they have fun...

WORK ON YOU....then introduce him to the NEW IMPROVED YOU...
He said that CC wouldn't make a difference...because he (like most of us) doesn't believe things can really change. PROVE HIM WRONG BY MAKING THE CHANGES YOU NEED TO MAKE...
you can't make him... guilt him...beg him into coming home... be the person he fell in love with again and he'll fall in love again...

GUILT WON'T BRING HIM HOME...IT WILL DRIVE HIM AWAY
And listen to this... if he doesn't see changes in you that fill him with the belief things could be different with you HE WILL NEVER COME HOME...
This was a long time coming for him...it wasn't easy to walk away...he will want to be SURE it will be different before he comes back.

BE THE PERSON HE LIKES TO SPEND HIS TIME WITH...AND HE WILL.

Thank you for that and I know what I did was wrong. I will redirect relationship talk at all costs. The one thing that gets frustrating is that he, on many occasions, says that he would be working all the time and would never have any time to spend with me if he came back and have no money to ever spend. Then how does he have that for her??? Just venting here because I don't want to share everything like this with people close to me.

Back to a strong plan "A". He is supposed to start his new PT job today so I thought I would send him a text wishing him good luck at it and since it is not the kind of job he wants, wishing him good luck finding more of the job that he wants. I think it took him so long to find this job because he might be afraid that it is going to take time away from OW and it will not make her happy. He is coming to the house tonight to take care of the kids while I go to my counseling session. He said he would do this if I wanted him to so the kids would be home and ready for bed sooner. I figured that 1. it would keep him away from her longer tonight 2. it gives the kids a chance to see him today 3. lets me see him and work the plan A 4. we can discuss counseling for the kids.

Hope this was a good thing to do!

{{{{{PM2}}}}} This is a hard, hard thing to have to go through. You've gotten some excellent advice on how to deal with this latest crisis. (And Bubbles, that was a nice post. Thank you.)

I have some concerns at seeing this thought process pop up again:


Even this is not likely to be THE kick. By hoping that each thing that happens is "it" - the one thing that finally breaks through to him, you're setting yourself up for disappointment again and again. That takes up valuable resources that you need to conserve in order to finish a strong Plan A and go to Plan B.

Believer has a very good simile of seeds in the garden. Every day, the things that you do, and the occurrences of his life, plant seeds that will eventually grow and show him the way home. (If he chooses to take it, and chances are good that he will.)

You aren't the first BS who has wanted to dig those seeds up every day, and twice on Sundays, and see how they're doing. Are they sprouting? Are they growing? What's going on under the ground? I can't see anything!

Let time and God work their natural process. Rest and wait. Your job in the meantime is to pull the weeds out of the garden plot, and keep it attractive and ready for the little plants to sprout.

I may have missed something - my eyes are still trying to focus - but a few more things spring to mind:

1. Please stop asking him to attend counseling with you, except for the specialized counseling you get for DS. It won't do any good at this point, and because he's so resistant and angry, ends up being a Lovebuster over something that just isn't important now.

2. Good job not getting angry or yelling during the R talk. Of course you shouldn't have gone there, but it would have been even worse if you'd gone there AND gotten angry besides. Don't even go down that road next time.

3. I'm not totally getting the picture with your exposure to your mom. Did you somehow blame her for the A? You aren't actually responsible for her feelings - she is. If she was intruding into your M, that's on her BUT NOT THE CAUSE OF THE A. And if she was intruding, it's because you were letting her. This isn't something that can be solved in one paragraph, and may benefit from further discussion. Part of Plan A will be establishing boundaries with your mom, and showing that you can keep them in place.

4. Why hasn't your dad been told? Is there some grave health issue going on, or just fear of his reaction? Without more info I couldn't give a concrete opinion whether he should be told, though 99 times out of a hundred I'd vote for exposure.

5. IMO, you're putting yourself through needless misery by exposing in dribbles. If you're up to doing it at all, get it all done in one fell swoop. Then you deal with his anger once and get it over with. Don't worry - the effects of exposure continue to work on the A even after his anger has passed.

Why not make a list today of everyone else you can think of who might have some impact on the A, or simply be able to offer you their moral support? All close family members on both sides, any good friends of yours or his, people at his work, people at church, and even the mailman if need be. Then in the next day or two, expose to them all at once.

DO NOT WAIT FOR HIS PERMISSION OR LET HIM KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING!!!

By telling one person here, and one person there, and a while later another person over yonder, and then justifying it by saying, "Well, you told me to," it comes across as weak. Plus then you catch his anger over and over, instead of one giant explosion and it's done. (That's the only Big Bang theory I believe in. )

Exposure also has more of an impact done quickly and not in dribbles. There are just so many reasons to get it all done at one time.

6. For the next couple of days, while still in crisis mode over DS, it's not the time to be flirty. What you can do is send a short, sweet email, reminiscing about when DS was born. Speak of your feelings about WH's presence there, and what a beautiful family you all made.

Then the next day think of something funny the kids did a few years ago and write him about that, retelling the story and giving him the opportunity to laugh with you.

Also maybe just a few very simple texts like

hi

or

thinking of u

Then just be patient. Every day that comes is one day closer to the finish line.