Oh my. You had a good day. I am so glad for you. Yes, by all means, your husband could benefit from depression meds. Meds and counseling could get the two of you on the right track.

All the best

Larry

Awesome W02

I'm not sure if hubby will do the IC that the MC wanted him to do. He wants us both to have IC. I just can't wait to feel like a "normal" person. I wished hubby would have spoke up more, I gave him plenty of chances. When we got out he said I talked too much and seemed slightly irritated. Before we went in he said he wasn't going to talk, but then said a few things. I think he was very uncomfortable and said he didn't think it was anybody else's business to know anything about us. He said something about not getting away, the MC thought he meant no date night, no he meant no family vacations! But, before I knew that I said that I didn't know how to talk to him, when we do go anywhere all we do is sort of stare at each other or look around. I don't think hubby knows how to talk to me either, he talks at me, but not to me. Our first anniversary we went out and never said a word to each other other than how the food was and wondering how our 4 month old baby was. (which she was not fine, she screamed the whole time we where gone,which made us feel horrible and we never went anywhere until the next anniversary and at some point the kids just never left us. Hubby and I haven't been alone in 6 yrs). On a side note, hubby and I watched Couples Retreat,it made up want to go to a tropical place. We are talking about going to Florida, because I refuse to fly. We have family there, so even though we'll have the kids we will have plenty of "alone time". Oh, and hubby has already lost 15 lbs! He's also worked up to an 1 hr on the treadmill! Go Hubby!! It's like a competition between us. He'll challenge me to walk further so I can say..I did 3 miles in an hr, beat that! (Course I can run, he can't but I'm sure he will be running eventually). His belly is already shrinking. I just hope I can look amazing for him by summer( I just need to lose 30 lbs for right now). I just hope he'll be ok when we do go(to Florida). Hubby and his first ex wife went to Florida and she left him right after they got back and she maxed out his credit cards. I really hope he'll be ok, is there anything I can do to help him now and when we go, it'll be a few months before we do get to go.

Something that might appeal to him:

"I am old enough now to realize what a good man you are. I am going to not only make up for what I did for you, but also what your past wives have done. You deserve it. I love you."

Larry

You need to help yourself before you could help him. Call your MC and get phone# for your IC. Your MC is a keeper . , and not falling asleep on his/her duty. Also in MB we believe that one spouse to lead back to happy M, a fulfilling M.

There is no quick fix. You need to follow MC's recommendation asap.

Have you learn MB Basic Concept ?

Side question: What is normal to you ?.

Normal for me would be in control of myself and not letting my emotions rule me. To be at a somewhat even keel...I don't like this happy one day and depressed the next at almost no reason, like today I am so down I feel like just crying. I am starting to see my own patterns and I'm getting close to a what I call "crazy phase" After taking a good look at myself I go through some craziness right before spring. Today, I need to go to the store, but I don't feel like being around other people, this is just so nuts, yesterday I was ok, almost upbeat and optimistic. I am so tired of riding a roller coaster!

Thanks for sharing, I have no doubt that you have mood disturbances and you might need BiPolar and AD med to control it temporaray. You need to be evaluated by a psychiatrist.

You are battling many issues at once, your past that was not under your control, your past that was your fault, and today's M issues. It is amazing you aren't having nervous breakdown already. You need to take care yourself.

Meanwhile, you could try relaxation techniques, my favorite is Yoga classes. Force yourself doing healthy stuff that you enjoy in the past ... like reading books, go to movies, get a massage, manicure, etc. Any thing healthy that pump up your serotonin and dopamine level.

Have you learn MB Basic Concept ?.

-rh-

I have been reading the MB Basic Concepts...I have been reading the 5 Love Languages. My language is physical touch. My hubby has almost no desire to "speak" my love language. He does not like to hug or kiss or anything else that requires non-sexual touch. I am so frustrated that he won't really read the book.

How do you know if you should hang on or hang it up?
He says me trying to get him "to speak my love language" is trying to change him.
All I have ever wanted from him was his touch and his kiss and I can't have it. It makes me feel tortured.
I don't see how meeting all of his EN's will get him to meet mine. If he feels so closed in when I try to hug him, I don't think this is ever going to work.

(((((wife02)))))

All this is such good news W02. I am following it every day.

W02,

Why would your H be afraid of touch? Do you suppose he has been trained by other women in his life, that his touch is not desired? Do you suppose he fears your reaction if he touches you?

Tell him when you want him to hold your hand. Tell him when you want him to take your elbow and "escort" you someplace. Tell him when you want the feel of his hands on you. And when he does these things, don't take them for granted, thank him very much for holding your hand, taking your elbow, or any other contact you have requested.

My bet is that he has been trained for years to NOT TOUCH women. You need to train him that you ENJOY his touch.

God Bless,

JL

I was trying to talk to him last night and I asked him why did he love me..his answer? The kids. I was trying to explain ENs and Love languages and that I wanted to know what his was so I could make him feel like I loved him, well it all got down to that the book love languages was describing a fairy tale and marriages can't be like that. He tells me to ignore my EN(which is affection)and just deal with it. The he goes on to say that all I want is sex and sex isn't the most important thing, I told him that sex was the only way I could get him to touch me. And he didn't understand. He still insists that I am trying to change him. I am starting to just sink down ...I feel so depressed..I even tried to prove I wasn't after sex by not trying to initiate anything. He tried touching me after we went to bed, but it was just all wrong. He was trying to joke and play around and touched me in such a manner it just added insult to injury. He heavily laid his hand on my head and tried to stick his fingers in my eyes and nose and I am so not in the mood for this, but I forced laughter anyway. I tried earlier to find out how I can make amends for what I did, he said he didn't know. I asked him what is it that I do for him that makes him feel loved, he said he didn't know which started the if you loved me you wouldn't have done what you did. And the vows don't mean anything anymore speach. I am starting to feel hopeless, after all the talk of how I love it when he touches me, he had several opportunities this morning to reach out and touch me, and he didn't. It's like he doesn't care what my ENs are, and yet he doesn't want me to leave. Which was something else, he thinks I am plotting to leave because every woman that has cheated on him has left.

I'm sorry wife02. There are so many thoghts in my head, but they are all more an outgrowth fo my own situation rather than necessarily helpful for you. So I'll just say that I a thinking of you and hope you have a better day today.

Thanks, I hope for a better day, but I don't think that's today. I just feel so empty and void. I barely have anything to give my children today and I think that's so bad. I feel beyond drained today...I just don't know how much more I can take before I break.

Well, he actually reached out to kiss me before he left for work, and it would have been so great if he hadn't said "Compromise". All it did was remind me that he doesn't get anything out of my kisses. And it reminded me that what I felt when he kissed me wasn't shared. I'm trying to just think that he kissed me, it must mean he's trying, I'm really trying to ignore his comments.

When we were talking last night he said he liked this girl in his sophomore year and he didn't know how to ask her out. He said he was mercilessly and relentlessly teased about it and may be he then just forgot about how it felt. I think he meant that kind of spark or how it would feel to kiss...I know what he meant, I have a hard time describing the things he says.

wife_02 said:

"Wow, flighty, emotional, artsy girl...that's me!! right brained? Are you left-handed?"


Just a little OT here, but:

People who are left-handed MIGHT have reverse dominance of hemispheres. However, this has not been shown to be true in quite a few cases.

Also, IF you actually do have true reverse dominance of hemispheres - that is, if you are left-handed, and your brain has the reverse typicality of control, with language dominance in the right hemisphere, music and art in the left (which the majority of people have in the opposite sides), then you would NOT BE RIGHT HEMISPHERE DOMINANT - you would be....

left hemisphere dominant, if your leanings were to art, music, etc.

Do you get it?



Anyway, this is really something the pop-psych community has people mixed up about. The numbers are not as people might believe, and the data does not truly support as much reverse-dominant brain occurrence than you might believe.

And one of the main ways we actually find out? People who are left-handed have strokes. That's when we really know for sure, in many, many, cases.

Odd, but unfortunately true.

SB

So, the brain isn't reversed? So the left hemisphere of the brain controls the left side? I am left-handed, I always embraced it. I thought it made me somewhat unique. My adoptive mother however, is right handed and writes lyrics and music, and she has a beautiful singing voice(she LOVES music). I always thought since she had that ability that she should have been left-handed. Interesting, I have always found brain studies to be fascinating.

When you first meet someone you bond on the things you allready know right? Like you both probably had no desire to ________(fill in the blanks). The hope for intimacy that you both had inside yourselves for each other was something that needed to be nurtured over time. As you knew each other more and continued to agree on what love was to each of you, desire to care for each other physically grew.
Partly because the world we live in doesn't put sex into a place of intimacy first but rather makes it a performance issue, you did not wait until you sorted out your baggage before you entered into a physical relationship. Happens every day and it will continue to happen for most relationships because we have a drive to have a relationship with someone built into us. We know intuitivly that sex is a big deal and that something happens chemically inside us that brings us closer, so we tend to jump in and use it to repair our lonliness and sometimes to put the past behind.

Its been said that men are stimulated visually and women more from atmoshere and suroundings. If we look at nature and the behaviors there it is simple to see that to mate this is ussually true. This is nature though and animals don't have the added stimulation of thought and the chemical changes that effect our minds. This adds other criteria to a happy relatonship and its a double-edged sword. We respond to what we remember and we understand consequences so we contemplate, plan, and have expectations. We also revere honesty with our mates because we know that if that person is so connected to our inner being that they are just like our own bodies or "soul" we also know the pain that comes from hurting ourselves. Someone that we have let in so deep can make mistakes and we understand that, but lies and deception that is not owned up to wil eventually tear apart intimacy and trust.
The other half of that sword is because we understand our weaknesses and those of others we can forgive. Intimacy with someone sexual or not who has forgiven us after we have come clean is more valuable than just the act of sex itself to most people, unless you are only interested in the act itself. Sexual intimacy is/was very important to me in a relationship but it was not the sex that was important as what was behind it. Someone wanted me.
This is why porn works so well to stimulate men. When they see a beautiful woman showing her body, (which he desires anyway naturally and is stimulated by it), she is saying to him in his mind, "I want you" He buys the fantasy that its simple or uses the image to fantasize but his need to be alphamale and be the only one is built in and if he is not getting respect from who he is with, he fantazises he is getting it with her. Or maybe he could live the fantasy if "Things were different".

Your H has a lot of past issues that he has been dealing with for a long time. I believe he really loves you but doesn't trust you now. He should have went straight to a Dr. when he started to act different after you guys got married but instead by not seeking help he aggravated issues that existed inside you. In effect he created his own disaster because he was so deeply damaged from the past he resorted to clamming up and protecting himself. Then feeling rejected you went out and made it worse because you didn't push the issue based on honesty. You could have insisted he go to a doctor and if he didn't leave the house on what we all call a Plan B. If he continued to live in the past pain and assumptions that kept him safe instaed of reaching out for help then when you left he would have helped him. Reguardless of what he "Thought".

The pain that both of you have suffered from past relationships has taken its toll yet again on both of you and your marriage. He was so locked up and afraid that its almost like he created the problem over again. You played right into it but still you did have a choice and you are willing to work on that and own it.

If you guys work on this marriage and fight for each other as you spend the time to get the help you both need you will have intimacy beyond what most ppl have. His desire to touch you will come back I am sure, As sure as I know he wnts to be the only man in his womans life.

If either of you want to play the blame game and leave then what can be done anyways. It takes two working on the marriage relationship at all times to turn it into the galvinized one you guys can have. One where nobody, past present or future could get between you and he.

As far as getting it to work I hope you continue to try. I didn't think you were the quitting type looking for an easy way out and I assume you know that this is worth fighting for. Keep trying to work on healing him as you protect yourself from the feelings that are effecting you OK? I am pulling for you.

I was trying to talk to him last night and I asked him why did he love me..his answer? The kids.
This may be where he is right now. The fact is, he hasn't left the home, and that tells you that there is more to it than what he is willing to say. But maybe it should be worth it to you that the kids are the connection to you - for NOW. Take that, and accept what he is willing to offer to you, for NOW. He could have said, "I don't feel ANY love for you." Instead, he said he loves you - and the thing he sees is very concrete. This tells you that he thinks in terms of the things he SEES - so that gives you something to work with. The things you DO for him, that produce RESULTS are the way to help him see your love for him, and are the things that will build his love for you in return.

Remember his words, and look toward the deeper meaning. He is a person who looks for RESULTS.


I was trying to explain ENs and Love languages and that I wanted to know what his was so I could make him feel like I loved him, well it all got down to that the book love languages was describing a fairy tale and marriages can't be like that. His life experiences right now tell him that FANTASIES are garbage. He is right. They are not something he can trust - he has given his trust to the emotional side of himself many times over, and this has FAILED HIM. He has experienced the betrayal of many lovers - and now is being asked to drop his defenses and expose the core of what he sees as his deepest self. That core, what makes him FEEL LOVED, how he both expresses love and senses it most deep within himself, really is guarded right now. So he is telling you basically that THIS ISN'T REAL. Because he cannot trust it to be that way.

Again, YOU have to build the concrete proof for him that it CAN BE. He must see you build it first, in order to trust that you are willing to do the work - all on your own - before he will be willing to expose any of that core. Do you blame him?


He tells me to ignore my EN(which is affection)and just deal with it. My guess here is that he feels violated. He probably sees images of you with the other men, and cannot get himself through those images at times. He may compare himself to them, not feeling up to to the comparison, may feel you thought they were better than he was, or perhaps the images are just too powerful and painful right now. This is common with betrayed spouses - and some of this may be carryover from the other betrayals and not even reflective of your particular affairs. Also, he may have sensed the betrayals when they occurred, and your withdrawal - his past experiences may have given him "spidey-sense" for affairs. At any rate, to expect him to want to meet your need for physical affection right now is probably too much. You will have to put your needs down until HIS ARE FILLED. This is called

SACRIFICE

And unfortunately, the fact is, you will have to make many sacrifices before this ride is over.

The he goes on to say that all I want is sex and sex isn't the most important thing, I told him that sex was the only way I could get him to touch me. And he didn't understand. Of course he didn't understand. Because sex isn't the ONLY way he has in order to touch you. Here is yet another example of the extreme language we discussed earlier. You tend to be an all-or-none type of person. In order to save your marriage, you will need to find a way to look for MIDDLE GROUND - because most problems are not either-or situations. Most problems have more than two solutions, black-or-white. Look for those. For example, he did try to touch you in a playful manner, which angered you (you describe it next). This is probably his way of making a point to you - that affection and love can be expressed physically in MANY FORMS, and do not necessarily mean SEX EVERY TIME. Allow him to meet you there, and look toward those events as his expressions and attempts to touch you lovingly. Because - this is exactly what that was.



He still insists that I am trying to change him. I am starting to just sink down ...I feel so depressed..I even tried to prove I wasn't after sex by not trying to initiate anything. Instead, why not just remove all of the pressure - entirely? Sacrifice, and let him know that you intend to do it. Tell him, "I love you. I want you to understand that I love you. I don't think that anyone - male or female - should be pressured to have sex when they don't want to. So I want to cuddle with you, but when it comes to initiating sex, I want to try a period of six months with you. During that time, I won't initiate sex at all. I will leave it up to you. But, I will initiate cuddling - can we agree on that? I can cuddle with you, but I won't try to start anything sexual. That way, I can get some physical affection, and you won't feel any pressure for sex."

See if that relieves the tension he feels.

And my guess is, somewhere in there, he will initiate. It will be natural. Your job is to make him SAFE in that time. And keep your mouth closed about any sexual feelings you are getting during cuddling. Do not pressure him. Make sure he is safe. Watch this work.

He tried touching me after we went to bed, but it was just all wrong. He was trying to joke and play around and touched me in such a manner it just added insult to injury. He heavily laid his hand on my head and tried to stick his fingers in my eyes and nose and I am so not in the mood for this, but I forced laughter anyway. It was good that you laughed. He was trying to make things better, and he was making a point.[color:#CC0000]


I tried earlier to find out how I can make amends for what I did, he said he didn't know. I asked him what is it that I do for him that makes him feel loved, he said he didn't know which started the if you loved me you wouldn't have done what you did. And the vows don't mean anything anymore speach. [color:#CC0000] Your reaction to his "If you loved me you wouldn't have done this" and "the vows don't mean anything anymore" - are pretty revealing.

You call his comments a "speech".

Yes, you have heard this all before.

You will hear it again, and probably many times. He hears it in his head HOURLY.

You don't get that - because your desire is for him to MOVE ON from that mindset.

He cannot.

You haven't done the work yet. And when you react to him opening his feelings to you in the way you did - and I can tell how you reacted because right here you say it was a "speech" - you set the process back. YOU - YOU - YOU set the process BACK. He isn't doing that. YOU ARE.

I say that because your reaction to his words are not helping him move forward! Right then and there, you look him straight in the eye and you tell him that you KNOW THIS GOES ON HIS IN HEAD EVERY MINUTE OF THE DAY. And you also tell him that you know you nuked the marriage, but your every waking moment is dedicated to a plan to mend each and every broken part of it. That your mind and heart are focused on this, and he will SEE CHANGES IN YOU. And that you know he needs to see your changes first, and that you are working every day to make those changes.

Then, bust out your LIST of EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS that you have made up so he can see the things you are working on to make sure you are more prepared that another affair will not happen (remember these? the passwords, not going alone anywhere with other men, etc.????). GIVE IT TO HIM, so he can SEE IT.

Remember - he must see YOUR changes first. Your husband is a concrete kind of guy. USE THAT IN YOUR FAVOR.


I am starting to feel hopeless, after all the talk of how I love it when he touches me, he had several opportunities this morning to reach out and touch me, and he didn't. It's like he doesn't care what my ENs are, and yet he doesn't want me to leave. Here again, you are focused on what YOU need. Start meeting HIS NEEDS, because you cannot expect your husband to do the work in restoring your marriage. You dropped this bomb. Clean it up.



Which was something else, he thinks I am plotting to leave because every woman that has cheated on him has left. No kidding.


Schoolbus

I do not want to play the blame game...I want to fight but I'm getting weak(depressed). I have asked him how can I make amends and he said he didn't know. Every time I ask a question about what makes him feel loved, or what he wants in our relationship I always get I don't know. I was so sure domestic support was one of his EN's because he wants the house clean, but he says it doesn't make him feel loved. He says it takes away from the stress at work. Could he just be confused or am I? Wow, I wish he would come on here!!

I did try to get us into counseling when we had been married for 2 years and he refused several times...I thought he was going to go at one point and then backed out saying he didn't need it and he was fine. It was the day of the appointment when he did that. I tried several times after that, but it began to wear on me and being young and dumb at 23 I began to withdraw in some ways from him. There was a wall between us, but I'm beginning to see some light coming through now. When I remember us then it was just so bad..he was so withdrawn.
He says it's not possible to have a marriage like what's described in the love languages book. He says it's a fairy tale.
How do I protect myself from the feelings that are effecting me? I've always been an emotional sponge.