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Originally Posted By: imanotherone
OK, I just went back and read your first posts from 2007. Looks like the pain of discovery was too much for you. Maybe you would have recovered had you just bashed the OM in the kneecaps. It seems like it's more about pride and disrespect than it is about family. I just don't understand how you feel ok about leaving your children with a wayward in an unchecked situation.
I mean, you have very limited influence over your children as your WXW continues her skanky behavior. Is that really what your daughter needs to see as a role model? At least while with you, the WW has to tone it down or keep it in darkness. I dunno.


Ick, no! I'd rather my children not have a currently wayward spouse in the home. I might be stuck by law letting the wayward spouse have the children half of the time, and there might be nothing I could do about it (though I'd certainly try). But I sure wouldn't stay with an unrepentant adulterer just for that. I don't think that makes a better life for children, at all.

Now, a formerly wayward spouse, that's different. But that would have to be someone who has no contact and is living the Marriage Builders principles.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Just to be clear, Krazy's wife made it to FWW status.
But in the long run her betrayal was just to much.


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Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: imanotherone
OK, I just went back and read your first posts from 2007. Looks like the pain of discovery was too much for you. Maybe you would have recovered had you just bashed the OM in the kneecaps. It seems like it's more about pride and disrespect than it is about family. I just don't understand how you feel ok about leaving your children with a wayward in an unchecked situation.
I mean, you have very limited influence over your children as your WXW continues her skanky behavior. Is that really what your daughter needs to see as a role model? At least while with you, the WW has to tone it down or keep it in darkness. I dunno.


Ick, no! I'd rather my children not have a currently wayward spouse in the home. I might be stuck by law letting the wayward spouse have the children half of the time, and there might be nothing I could do about it (though I'd certainly try). But I sure wouldn't stay with an unrepentant adulterer just for that. I don't think that makes a better life for children, at all.

Now, a formerly wayward spouse, that's different. But that would have to be someone who has no contact and is living the Marriage Builders principles.

Just to be clear--my H is a FWH. But if we separated, I don't know that his boundaries are strong enough to stay that way. Which is why I'm keeping a close eye. I agree, having a cheating spouse would be gross, but I thought Krazy's wife was a FWW. Maybe I'm wrong?


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Hey Krazy! Good to see you!!!

Glad you feel better.....

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Originally Posted By: imanotherone
but I thought Krazy's wife was a FWW. Maybe I'm wrong?


Reading Krazy's posts, I always got the idea that she was going through the motions and never really earned her 'F'. Just my impression.

Krazy, glad to hear from you again and I'm glad you're doing better.


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Krazy, rebuilding isn't for everyone but for me and my FWH, rebuilding was essential because although he did a bad thing by having the A, he is a wonderful person and I want him in my life and he wants me in his life also. My DH has become an even greater man. He realizes just how awful his A was and he has done a 360. I love him both in good times and bad times and I have no regrets for staying M to him.

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She was a FWW as far as I know, but to me that is irrelevant. Is a "former" rapist innocent because they are sorry and served their prison time? No. Would I befriend one because they are remorseful? No.


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It's frustrating to read about so many people in pain.

Betrayal, depression, anxiety, anger, keyloggers, VARs, cell phone records, exposure, gaslighting, denial, loss of self-esteem, "Are they or aren't they?" "Will they again?" "How could they do that to me?"

It all goes away after you divorce, and those losses are a larger gain than you could possibly have by staying with a cheater, even if they are "reformed". In my opinion.


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Originally Posted By: Krazy71
It's frustrating to read about so many people in pain.

Betrayal, depression, anxiety, anger, keyloggers, VARs, cell phone records, exposure, gaslighting, denial, loss of self-esteem, "Are they or aren't they?" "Will they again?" "How could they do that to me?"

It all goes away after you divorce, and those losses are a larger gain than you could possibly have by staying with a cheater, even if they are "reformed". In my opinion.


So if you remarry do you think those thoughts will come back? Do you see yourself as no longer being able to have a committed relationship because of your xW's A?


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Originally Posted By: Krazy71
She was a FWW as far as I know, but to me that is irrelevant. Is a "former" rapist innocent because they are sorry and served their prison time? No. Would I befriend one because they are remorseful? No.
But you're ok with your kids spending half their young lives with this woman, unsupervised?


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Quote:
No matter how much you love your WS, no matter what they promise, odds are that they will either cheat again at some point, you'll be stuck in mediocre-at-best marriage, or both.


My FWW is and was worth the "odds".

I owed it to her, our daughter and myself [my vows] to give her/us a chance.

I did "deserve better" and I've got it...now...with my FWW.

It sounds like you THOUGHT your wife/family was worth the gamble too. Just because in hindsight, it appears "the odds" didn't pay off for you doesn't mean the "effort" was completely worthless. You did the best you knew how. I'm very sorry you regret the three years you wasted "trying". I like to think I wouldn't have "tried" for so long myself, but I'll never know as just a few months after "no contact" myself, it no longer felt like I was actively "trying" to recover myself (meaning my wife was on board and it was something we did TOGETHER without strenuous effort er forcing it on my part). Regret is really not my thing but I hope you can move past it and find/build a life of value and wonderful healthy relationships.

Mr. Wondering


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Originally Posted By: Krazy71
It's frustrating to read about so many people in pain.


Then what compels you to stay here and "read about" it?

Mr. W


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I rarely do anymore, but I was here long enough that it became a habit.

It's easy for a lottery winner to claim that a buying a ticket is a wise way to spend your money.


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So Krazy, your child/children are OK with plan D? No hard feelings there? Also, had you walked immediately, you wouldn't have learned what you now know. Don't you think you might have had some regrets, had you not given it a try?
Your analogy about the lottery winner cuts both ways: it's easy for the guy who decided on plan D to decide that that is the best way for everyone.


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I have read your entire saga, Krazy and I am very sorry for all of the pain that you suffered through during the A and the three years that you attempted R. I can understand your bitterness.

There are some things on this forum that I cannot fully embrace such as the "one size fits all" mentality that discounts personality but the fact remains that this is a marriage building site. MY DH was worth the effort. Our M is not perfect but it was not before the A.

I don't feel like a winning lottery ticket winner. My DH never came fully onboard with MB but he has embraced what his belief system and personality will allow. I could have pulled the D lever because I think that this is a perfect program and he does not but we pretty much POJAed the whole thing and it has helped us to have a much better M and to regain respect, love and admiration for each other and even a different type of trust than we had before.

You do a great disservice to those newbies on here who will use this program to their advantage and eventual R, either of their M or personal R, by saying that the easy way is always the best. Perhaps it would have been the best for you. It would have been a disaster for my M and my family and I would have lost the opportunity to enjoy this brand new, more mature relationship with my spouse.

I am very grateful for this program, the harleys and the good people who offer their help and support.

God's Blessings,

Say


Me, BW-57
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Originally Posted By: imanotherone
So Krazy, your child/children are OK with plan D? No hard feelings there?


I would hope those children would place the guilt for the divorce where it belongs.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

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I'm a long time lurker, but this one drew me out of lurkdom. In June 2006 I discovered my wife's 1 1/2 year long affair. Like many here my world was absolutely shattered. I never thought that something like that could happen to us. Today nearly 4 years later, I am very secure in who I am, I have no problems with my self-esteem or sense of self worth. I also have a marriage that is recovered and in many ways is far better than the relationship we had prior to the affair.

Granted, when I confronted my wife on d-day, she confessed, immediately ended the affair and went no contact. She did display remorse and spent her energies trying to recover our marriage. She also did not put me through the indignity of a withdrawal from her affair partner. Shortly after I discovered MB and with the help of JL and some others who are no longer posting I feel we have recovered our marriage. Is the affair a distant memory that is buried in some remote region of my mind? No. We still discuss certain aspects of it, but this I feel is due to the role we have played in the lives of some family and friends who have also undergone the trauma that an affair afflicts. Yes I do bear scars, but those scars would remain whether we recovered the marriage or not and would then play a part in any future relationships.

Today I am very happy, I love my my wife, I am part of a family unit that is intact. I have a wife that loves me and reminds me of it regularily. She contributes daily to my well-being. In many ways it's hard to associate who she is today with the person she was 6 or so years ago. I would not trade anything for what I have today other than the ability to go back in time and erase the affair from our experience.

I would also like to say that the the price she has paid for her actions is far greater than the price I have paid for recovery. I can go through life with the knowledge that I have kept my vows. She to this day mourns what she perceives as the loss of her integrity. The hit to her own self esteem is far greater than the hit to mine and today I do have a concern about her self image. I need to be there to comfort and help her when she does get overwhelmed with the memory of the choices she has made.

Please don't question my sense of my own self worth or self esteem. What I have today I value more than anything else on earth. It's my choice and she was/is worth it.

Regards

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Originally Posted By: Krazy71


Betrayal, depression, anxiety, anger, keyloggers, VARs, cell phone records, exposure, gaslighting, denial, loss of self-esteem, "Are they or aren't they?" "Will they again?" "How could they do that to me?"


It all goes away after your M is fully recovered too. At least, for me it has. Almost everything listed above is what one goes through directly following an A. I agree that this is a rough period. But it doesn't last forever. Nothing on the above list describes a happy, healthy, recovered relationship, which is possible after an A.

I don't think of my H as a "cheater" anymore. I don't think of myself that way either. We aren't the same people we were back then. We have precautions in place to make sure that neither of us strays again, but they are no different than the precautions that any other couple need to take, whether there has been an A in the marriage or not. Complete O&H is necessary in any M, not just one that has involved an A. I don't feel the constant need to check my H's email or cell phone records anymore. I have access to them, if I want to, but I just don't feel that it's necessary to obsessively check these things anymore. He has access to all of my records as well.

I don't feel anxious or angry or depressed anymore. I feel very grateful to have a wonderful, loving, sweet, sensitive, caring, forgiving man in my life that I am proud to call my H. It may not end this way for everyone, but it is possible to have a fulfilling relationship with your spouse after an A. To place a blanket statement on every M that involves an A and tell everyone to go straight to Plan D if their spouse ever strays is irresponsible and wrong, IMHO.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Originally Posted By: Krazy71
I rarely do anymore, but I was here long enough that it became a habit.

It's easy for a lottery winner to claim that a buying a ticket is a wise way to spend your money.


I certainly am fortunate to have won first prize but I did much more than just "buy a lottery ticket". I wasn't "lucky" by accident/chance. I/we "invested" in a plan. The MB plan and it, along with God...worked to save our marriage. Other than one book "SAA" and HNHN on CD...I spent nothing on the plan (until we went to the MB weekend two years into recovery).

That's the problem with telling people it's utterly hopeless. What I see as a prize today(my FWW) you believe is worthless. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, I just think it's unhealthy for you as you progress through your regrets to tell others seeking hope that it's hopeless. Do you really want to continue here being the voice of NO HOPE? IMO, if it's truly hopeless, the hopeful will progress to that understanding utilizing MB. One way or another...we guide them to their answer (respectful of the fact that they show up here seeking "hope").

My hope for you...is peace.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

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Originally Posted By: tmi57
I'm a long time lurker, but this one drew me out of lurkdom. In June 2006 I discovered my wife's 1 1/2 year long affair. Like many here my world was absolutely shattered. I never thought that something like that could happen to us. Today nearly 4 years later, I am very secure in who I am, I have no problems with my self-esteem or sense of self worth. I also have a marriage that is recovered and in many ways is far better than the relationship we had prior to the affair.

Granted, when I confronted my wife on d-day, she confessed, immediately ended the affair and went no contact. She did display remorse and spent her energies trying to recover our marriage. She also did not put me through the indignity of a withdrawal from her affair partner. Shortly after I discovered MB and with the help of JL and some others who are no longer posting I feel we have recovered our marriage. Is the affair a distant memory that is buried in some remote region of my mind? No. We still discuss certain aspects of it, but this I feel is due to the role we have played in the lives of some family and friends who have also undergone the trauma that an affair afflicts. Yes I do bear scars, but those scars would remain whether we recovered the marriage or not and would then play a part in any future relationships.

Today I am very happy, I love my my wife, I am part of a family unit that is intact. I have a wife that loves me and reminds me of it regularily. She contributes daily to my well-being. In many ways it's hard to associate who she is today with the person she was 6 or so years ago. I would not trade anything for what I have today other than the ability to go back in time and erase the affair from our experience.

I would also like to say that the the price she has paid for her actions is far greater than the price I have paid for recovery. I can go through life with the knowledge that I have kept my vows. She to this day mourns what she perceives as the loss of her integrity. The hit to her own self esteem is far greater than the hit to mine and today I do have a concern about her self image. I need to be there to comfort and help her when she does get overwhelmed with the memory of the choices she has made.

Please don't question my sense of my own self worth or self esteem. What I have today I value more than anything else on earth. It's my choice and she was/is worth it.

Regards


Very nicely put...tmi.

Mr. W

p.s.- Believe it or not, good ole JL still posts here quite regularly. Thankfully.


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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