I have, of late, become a bit impatient with betrayed spouses who use the affair and other controlling methods to beat up the wayward more than is necessary to vent their hurt.

Keep in mind that while the adulterer owns 100% of the affair, both partners own 50% of the state of the marriage.

In my opinion, a betrayed can use the affair as an opportunity to expand their own knowledge and ability to have a great relationship, as offered by that man, Dr. Willard Harley, or they use the affair as a way to beat up someone who accepts it out of guilt.

One is positive, the other is negative. Each party makes their own choice. So long as you enable him to be a jerk, he will continue to so be.

Larry

How can I stop enabling him to be a jerk, how can I put a stop to these feelings that raise their ugly heads. I am starting to do well with AOs. I asked him how he felt when I do that and I all said was angry, I told him that I was fishing for something a little deeper and he says (in a baby voice mind you) "I don't get sad like you". Yes that made me a little mad, but I didn't say anything. I feel like he's patronizing me.

Your husband is very abusive...it's one thing to lash out occasionally because he is hurt, but to constantly berate you and mock you, totally abusive.
You will have a very difficult time recovering if he doesn't change,if you can recover at all because he is not onboard at all.
How can you stop him from being a jerk? Stand your ground and say that you are willing to fix what you messed up, but unwilling to be a verbal punching bag.

He is a man! "Angry" often means "hurt" with a man. Or with this man, angry means abusive.

It seems like you think love is popping zits and trying to get this fat, extremely unhealthy, enormous, abusive man to make love to you.

I think you need to learn more about what love is and what men are supposed to be like. Then you will be able to act as you should be acting in your marriage.

Why would you want to be around a terribly unhealhty, abusive, fat..... man and watch TV with him 8 hours a day and pop his zits?

Does this guy even have a job?

And I am reading back on your first post. You were married only two years when you cheated with SIX men? At that point, was when you should have gotten a divorce. What are you with this man for, money? Do you work full time? Any kids?

Yes, he has a job, yes, we have 2 kids and yes he has a stressful full time job(He has had this job for 6yrs now, he has always had work and is very hard working) and I stay home with the kids. He was not always abusive, he was not always unhealthy. I am not healthy myself, but I am trying to be and I lost 45lbs. Are you saying because he's fat and unhealthy that I should be repulsed by him and leave? Does the fat on him make him look repulsive? No, not to me. Not great would be a better way to describe him. Honestly it's the beard I hate. But, aren't looks beside the point? It wouldn't have come into play had I not mentioned his health. My next question is what are men supposed to be like? I also don't recall saying we watch tv 8 hours a day. I am fulfilling a EN by sitting beside him, and it went all wrong simply because I was taking the remote to set the DVR...I'm sure I am not the only one who sets DVRs here....And the whole popping zits thing, I was trying to say love is doing the gross things.
Do you not think a man is not going to be hurt when 2 ex wives leave him and for women no less that he isn't going to act hurt in some way?

How many kids do you have? You had a child right before the affairs, right? How do you know some of your kids are not the other men's bio children?

Well, lets see our daughter is 7, our son is 2yrs. She was born Feb 1, 2003, 8 mos. after we married. Our son was conceived late Jan early Feb 2007. And did you note the post title? I cheated 5 yrs ago. The As happened in 05. Our children are ours. I don't understand you line of questioning, I am here for help. I want my marriage to be whole, happy and fulfilling for both me and my hubby. I am getting great advice from School Bus, Larry and several other great people, but I feel attacked by you, Bubbles. Why is that? I kind of am getting the feel that you are a BS, if thats the case don't make yourself feel better by attacking me, I get enough of that at home. I feel horrible enough all by myself, without any extra help.

W02
I agree that he seems to be going off the deep end with the launguage he is using towards you. Im sorry that he isn't working with steve here.

You are sincerly tring to recover and owning your mistakes. Just keep working at it.

W02

Hokay, I gotta tell you this. He has turned into an abuser. And you know it. You can look up the Duluth Wheel of Abuse and look under several categories and there the two of you will be, him dishing it out and you taking it.

Advising you how to handle it is way above my pay grade. but I will think about it and see if I can come up with a path you can take, which will likely mean that you seek the resources that are available out there in the real world. I used to work closely with a battered women shelter and I know some people to ask where you go for help formulating a plan.

I do have a couple of questions.

How much education do the two of you have?

What kind of work does he do? I suspect he makes good money. I don't know why I am asking these questions, it just feels right.

Larry

Since I see you online, I guess you are hanging around.

What kind of work does he do? Work is a culture. A machine shop has one kind and an insurance sales office another. They both are a 40 hour immersion in how to act. That is why my gut told me to ask.

Larry

Yeah, sitting here thinking of how to word a response, let me see...Hubby works in an auto parts store as an assistant manager, but without the title and the pay. The store manager treats him as a hmmm, she treats him differently than all the other employees and holds him to a higher standard than the employee handbook and she is terribly two-faced with him.He was off one day, the weather was bad, and she calls. he was tired of being the one who "always answers the phone" so he chose to spend his day off with the family. He goes into work and is verbally attacked by her. She threatened his job and his position, which according to the employee manual he did nothing wrong. I saw it myself. He doesn't make "good" money. and he will soon not be able to get any more raises. He was told that his position is almost tapped out. If we didn't have children he might would have quit that day. I want him to find another job, but my ideas aren't usually good. It was my idea he take this job, I kept saying "Why don't you go back to work at blank?"..."you love working on cars, why not sell parts?"....on and on I went encouraging him to go back there. So he sells parts to stupid people who don't know the make and model of their vehicles, people that argue with him over something he knows is right and they are wrong, people get snotty with him on the phone. My hubby is VERY knowledgable about cars. He can identify just about every older model cars and trucks (USA made) by things like headlights and tail lights!! It amazes me, I have trouble telling the difference between a 55 chevy and a 56 chevy(you know, the belaires?) he's telling me about the tail lights and head lights again. It's amazing how he has an eye for it. Anyway, he went to Lincoln Tech to be a mechanic and he can't do that line of work because of stiffness in his hands. He can only work on his own stuff, but not make full time work out of it.
I don't think his attitude towards his boss comes from a place that women shouldn't work in autoparts or be into cars, I think it's coming from the fact that she's a women and women have hurt him.
Me? I have had two semesters of college and I was going for sociology. I didn't know what to do with it though, I'll tell you this, I got straight A's in Sociology 101. It was fascinating, I even kept that textbook. I have wanted to go into many things, but theres just no market for what I want to do. I have let many talents of mine slip, because I can't do anything with it...I can sing opera, big deal lots of people can and sound better than me because I'm not a high soprano. Everything I can do needs training to be good at it. Training takes money, and money I can't really get a hold of. Hubby doesn't think singing lessons is money wisely spent. (he seems like he doesn't take a lot of interest in what I want to do or like to do. I was in a singing competition once and he didn't seem that proud of me that I got in it, and one of the judges said I had potential. Do you know how happy that comment made me???)One of my secret dreams is to sing at the Sydney Opera House in Australia and I've never even told him. I was on the fringes of an EA once just because this guy I worked with thought I had a beautiful singing voice. I say fringes only because that it felt great to be acknowledged on something that I loved, and he was the one to get me to try it in the first place(I had tried it in the shower and didn't think it was real because it was just too easy to do it). It might not exactly been an EA, but I think it was getting close to it. He was a nice guy and had morals and knew how to keep a safe distance. There was a lot of "brother sister banter" between us and we fought like it. I knew to be careful about things like this. lol, good thing I was pregnant during this time, I was nasty! I also got really "into" my job and he hated that to, because I had to pick up for his slack and I got sick of it and started telling him what he needed to do and to hurry up. I think he started to hate me. My bosses saw how I was, and they were going to give me a manager position, but I couldn't leave my baby at home. I didn't go back....Sorry that was SOOO long! I hope you can read all of that!

I read all of it, quickly. You are easy to read, focused and you provide relevant information instead of being all over the map like a lot of the newbies I read who are emotional basket cases. You "Could" do just a wee bit better with the paragraphs, but that would be for others, I can read what you say just fine.

There are three or four national chains. From a counter perspective, the best seems to be O'Reillys. I haven't a clue what the back offices are like or employee stuff. That he is in the top bracket says it all. That Manager's bonus probably is linked to payroll in some way - maybe in just overall profit. So she doesn't like your husband because he is highly paid in comparison too.

You think?

More to follow, but don't let that stop you from talking.

Larry

I understand about the hands. It is all job based pay and quick makes the money. Say a certain job is two hours in the book and top guys can do it in an hour. Those are the money makers for themselves and where they work.

Got it.

Larry

He works in a dead end job and reports to a female who does not have his abilities, at least in terms of cars. She may be a better administrator or with computers or paper work or whatever to explain why she has the job.

And she would love to get rid of him if she could because he does know more than she does and is making top pay. That is an itch with a B.

He would like to make more for the family, I think he sees that as his reason for having a family, but he doesn't know how.

One thing about his job is his relationship with the independent shops who buy from his chain. That is bread and butter money for the chains. Walk ins are fine, but shops are where the steady money is from.

Thinking

Larry

Tell me how old each of you is. Save me from having to go back and look whilst I am busy sniffing the ground to see where it takes me.

Size of city - big, medium, small.

State if you feel comfortable telling me. - You can always post it and after I read it, edit it out.

Larry

I have the picture on you and still need to flesh out his some more.

Ok, I am thinking about him now. I got it, but would still like to know a bit more.

I think I have come up with some suggestions.

This is way beyond my pay grade $00.00. On the other hand, I think I can point in a direction you can take that will help you, so I am gonna try. It would be far better if you could afford MC from the Harley's, but that would probably mean a sum of cash you probably could not spare at this time. I am not going to do any counseling or coaching, just pointing and then, mostly using Harley stuff I have learned. I do hope that others will chime in with their own suggestions and out of that, can gain confidence you can make progress.

Larry

You where very close with where he works! He works at an AutoZone, the worst place in the world to work at!

I'm not sure why his boss doesn't like him, but I am sure she'd never get rid of him. If she got rid of him AutoZone would lose about 70% of their business for a very long time. A large magority will only go to hubby, because they know he knows what he's talking about. People ask for him by name on the phone. He came home telling me about this women that looked at him name tag and said he was the one she wanted to see. Her mother (whom we know)told her to go to him.

With this particular store, there is only one commercial account that really brings in anything and the walk-ins are the bread and butter, funny, isn't it? But I see what your saying about her. The reason she has her position is she has been with the company for 17 years, but she would be better suited with admin. My hubby was up for store manager, but she beat him out. I think now it's because the district manager is afraid of her?(She is very manipulative)

I know hubby would love to work in a shop and he has explained to me how they work, he would be a top guy, but he would either be quick and in pain or slow and not make any money and he doesn't want to chance it.

He hates not making enough money in his terms. He is hardly able to get car parts and he hasn't been able to go to this huge swap meet he loves in about 5 years for car parts(probably something else that made him withdraw, this thing is in July and he knows in Feb if he can go or not. It's usually a family thing and we go with another couple.

I just turned 30 and he is 37. He is going to be terrible to live with when he turns 40, he's already dreading it. We live in a small town with a rural feel, hey, but we have a super Wal-mart! We have some small shopping centers and a K-mart and a few (I can count on one hand!)nice restaurants. We live 45min away from a college town, I have to say that college town is like a ,hmmm, it's like it doesn't belong somehow, a bunch of weirdos, freaks, and homosexuals. It's a weird place. I'm not comfortable stating state, but I am in a mid western state(but barely).

I would love to do counseling with the Harleys, then I looked at how much it would cost and nearly fell out of my seat! Cannot let go of that sum at this point in time. It's hard enough to go to the MC we have and they can only schedule once a month since this MC is so booked.

He is in a rut and doesn't know how to get out of it. He blames himself and for complex reasons, often takes it out on you. He regrets not having the education it would take for him to advance in his chosen field, and he regrets that his hands have somehow been damaged so he can't make top dollar doing what he likes to do.

And he sees no way out, no way out.

Oh, the manager is easy. She is afraid of him. He holds her job in his hands. AutoZone is ruthless. If your guy left and she lost business because of it, her butt would be grass and the company would be the lawn mower. Tell him that. It might cheer him up. And he isn't going to run out the door to get even with her because that would cause him problems supporting the family. But it might cheer him up.

I wonder why they don't do more commercial business. Ask him. He knows. And he might even have a solution.

40 is nothing. At 42, I started a business. It grew to be a good size and it made good money over the years. If I had been fortunate to have the right wife who would have focused on saving some of what we made, we would probably have been very comfortable for life. My mistake. Oh well. . .

It took me five years to find the courage. It took me five years to figure out what to do. I had no help from a partner, I was just, uh, married. I wish I had known about MB back then.

Well, my goodness, I see a candidate to help someone just like me. Wonder who that could be

Every time he calls you an itch, leave the room. If he asks, just say you don't like the word even if he doesn't mean it. "Words hurt sometimes and that one hurts me."

Larry

It took me five years to figure it out. I studied and thought and schemed and plotted what to do, while carefully, carefully kept my job.

Five years I kept my eyes open, thinking, playing with it in my mind and studying. One day it all clicked.

Larry

Don't make it complicated. Men can't handle that. KISS.

He slams you:
You say, "Hey, I'm on your side."
"Well you weren't before."
"Yea, but I am now, so don't run me out of the room."

etc.

Larry