Bump. Does naybody ahve anything for me on this?????

Sorry L4S- I don't know your whole story, so I may be asking a question that you already have answered. If this is the case, just hit me with the 2x4 and continue on.

Do you have a LIST of requirements for your WW to commit to before you would consider R?

I will just add something I cut and pasted and have in my collection of good reads that might give you direction for the meeting

Here goes





Regarding attempts at contact for discussing reconciliation and poor recoveries I have seen on MB--Steve said the biggest mistake people make is taking the WS back with no clear-cut plan for R. Steve also mentioned the following:

1. WS does not have to end the A before we can talk about R (Steve said he will help guide us and negotiate the end of the A and make a plan for R). So a NC letter FIRST is not a requirement.

2. I spell out what WS needs to do...get help for the addiction

3. He said I should wait for WS to show me what he/she is offering without me giving any indication of where I stand.

-WS does all the talking

-See what his/her plan is for R

-How does he/she know he is ready?

-He/she has to be showing actions that are consistent with R

-Show me he/she has plans to remove OP from his/her life

-He said tell WS we need help/guidance, and let Steve then talk with him/her (no recovery demands as he/she will feel he is being controlled or I am being demanding). Steve said I could say something like,"We are really close to the edge here, and I do not want to make any mistakes. I would like to get someone to help us through this. All I know is I want us to be in love again. I am not asking you for a commitment, I am just asking you to speak with him so you find out his professional opinion of what R would involve for us."

4. During this time, I remain guarded and can say that it is not that I do not care, but that I just want to ease into R.

Thanks for the responses S and R. The outline I gave was in my plan B letter and a follow up i had written based on Jennifers recommendation. Writing a no contact letter was not part of the plan but no contact needed to be initiated and I we needed to work a plan from there based on MB principles. She previoulsy stated she would be interested in a consult with Jen 9about a month and a half ago) but then changed her mind. If I'm reading her correctly from our conversation this morning I think this could be a real possibility. I will certainly suggest it after I get a feel for her intentions.

I'm really quite anxious right now. I don't want to set myself up for a false recovery but I also don't want to miss an opportunity for reconciliation. Right now it appears her and OM3 are done but I need to know why and how that happened. Was it him that broke it off or her? If it was her, why? Did she feel threatened by being served (I'm sure this is a big part of it)or was it heading in that direction any way after their "vacation". I'm certain that if I had not had her served she would have continued on with OM. So her reason for breaking it off will weigh heavy on where and how we go from here.

I have alot of questions but I also don't want to push too hard on getting answers. I think the important thing for tonight is figuring out what she intends to do, and if there's any thought of recovery then setting up a meeting with Jen or Steve would be the next step so we can get the guidance we need. Thoughts?

Does it REALLY matter WHY she broke it off with OM3? I mean, for you to decide if you are going to R. I know there are IDEAL ways for it to end, but is that going to weigh on your decision to R?

Are you still in Plan B? I understand that it wasn't exactly as dark as you had planned it to be. Was it a "kind of" Plan B?

What is YOUR plan? Are you going to sit and decide what WW is going to do?

She was served yesterday and now she wants to R. Well, that seems interesting but I would be CAUTIOUS.

Looking --

Why don't you let her do ALL of the talking.
I'm not sure what the purpose of this meeting is...but if she just got served last night and that caused a rift in Affair#3...then it sure doesn't sound like she's anywhere near ready to talk about reconciling your marraige.

It sounds like she wants to check out how much cake is left...

EG ZACK LY

I agree about the cake eating. It wouldn't be the first time she tried that approach, hence the reason for asking advice. I'm a bit wiser now because of this board.

She never really said anything about recovery. We pretty much just agreed to a conversation tonight. You're right Scotland...I will be very cautious. Thank you and yes..she will be doing most of the talking.

Regards the Plan B. At the beginning it was a kinda plan B but since she started seeing other man #3 the only time we really communicated was if it dealt with the kids. Getting an intermediary was impossible. She kept on sabatoging it.

In regards to why I want to know why she broke it off> I guess it really wouldn't matter if I knew we may be headed toward recovery but I just feel that knowing the answer to that question can give clues about whether it's a security thing or if i get a real sense she may be reconsidering. Body language would tell me alot if I asked her why and I think I'd get a better feel for her sincerity. If I get any indication that she's not then it's press with the D and back to plan B.

To be honest I really don't think this is going to go anywhere if history is an indicator. I don't give it alot of weight so I feel I can do this and keep the emotion out of it. I feel confident that I'll be able to identify the fog babble and walk if I must.

I posted this on y Divorcing thread. I posting on both since I feel like I'm in limbo as I'm moving forward with D but still want to save my marriage. Is this messed up?

Well nothing so far. Spoke briefly with WW last night when I called the kids. Asked her if she still wanted to talk. She said yes but she had a headache, felt nausious and was having anxiety attacks. I said I wouldn't ask again and for her to re-read Plan B letter and guidelines for recovery. Said I didn't see but two options for us. Work on our marriage or get divorced. I made it clear I'm continuing down D road and if she wanted to discuss recovery she need to make contact first. She accused me of trying to take the kids away from her. I said "I don't see how me having physical custody differs any from what you set in motion 18 months ago. Are you suggesting that because you have physical custody now, you took the kids away from me back then?" No response. She said she'd call when she wanted to talk. I asked to speak with the kids. Spoke with them for a few minutes. So far nothing. Back into darkness (Plan B).

Hi L4,

She's contacted you and you've responded dozens of times since this 'Plan B'. I think this is why you're having troubles... You have not been in Plan B.


If anything, send her the Plan B letter again, and go VERY DARK. Really, this time!

In Plan B you stop focusing on the WS... she's clearly making LB withdrawls, this isnt help you.

If you ask specific questions you'll get more responses here. I see you giving updates, but not asking questions, then wondering why no one has responded...

Are you taking care of yourself?
Working out?
Visiting with friends?

Please take care of yourself right now. She's not met one condition of the Plan B letter. She's probably not even stopped seeing OM3. They had a spat, it's blown over by now, most likely.

DARK... DARK...

Thanks Drucilla. I agree that she most likely has contacted OM since they "broke up" this past Wed eve and I also agree that I haven't had a very stellar Plab B. Part of that problem is the lack of an intermediary and part is on my shoulders. It's very difficult without an intermediary when you have kids in the mix.

As far as specific questions...I have arranged for counseling for my kids. The counselor wants to see me first then WW, then us together and then the children.

Seems to me the counselor has the right approach when it comes to the kids but she is not familiar with MB philosophy or Dr Harley. How do I go about being dark when it seems every time the kids are involved WW must also be involved?

Any suggestions on an intermediary or how to go about staying dark without one? Most communications between WW and I have beenn thought txt since shortly after the holidays and have, for the most part, been in regards to the kids?

Anyone else with suggestions?

Posted this on my Div/Diving thread. Not alot of veiwers there. Could use some help please!



Spoke with WW this past Tuesday eve. I'm really in a quandry. She told me there's a good chance she has cancer. She had an appointment with docs last Thursday and she told me she had an hour and a half discussion but wouldn't get into much detail. She called because she told me her sister was going to call me if she didn't tell me what was going on. WW won't divulge exactly what the problem is. Then she gets on me saying that I wasn't there for her. I'm like, "what do you mean? You won't allow me to be there for you." She feels I've treated her like her "enemy" through this process and doesn't understand why I'm continueing with divorce.

I tried very hard to explain why I haven't been contacting her and as long as she was with OM how does she expect me to behave. I don't know if this is just a ploy to continue delaying or if she really has some serious health issues. If she does, what do I do with plan B? If she continues to see OM, what do I do with divorce proceedings?

I'm really in a place where I don't know what the right path is and WW isn't devulging any information to allow me to consider my options.

HELP?

Call her sister and get the facts instead of ambiguity.

Without reading back through everything, I suspect it's a ploy. If she was REALLY sick, seems like she would be MORE worried about her health and how to get through it rather than why she's not getting her way.

My husband had cancer last year and I can tell you when we first found out, the fear was paralyzing and worrying about getting him through it was FIRST and FOREMOST on our minds. Everything else went straight to the back burner. It kind of puts things into immediate perspective.

Thanks KA/PM. I did speak with her sister just about 30 minutes ago. She's not telling her much either apparently. See part of the problem is that WW mother went through something very similar when she was about the same age. It did not end good WWs mother was diagnosed with Breast Cancer and rather than revealing this to her family for support she self diagnosed and decided she wasn't going to survive and didn't want to put her kids through what she thought she was going to be suffering through. Without comeing right out and saying it you can summize what WWs mother did. WW was about 18 or 19 at the time. SIL says that WW is behaiving much the same way her mom did. They didn't find out she had breast cancer until after the autopsy.

The whole situation has got me reeling and I'm just not sure how to deal with it. I feel like I'm wrong no matter how I respond. If she's not seriously ill and I drop everything and try to be there for her I'd feel like I once again violated my own boundaries and committment. If she is seriously ill and I hold firm to plan B, I don't know if i could forgive myself.

This all boils down to her WW thinking and not wanting or being able to share her emotions and accept support from those who love her. From what I understand she is not sharing this with any body. She isn't even telling her sisters details, just general information they have said she was very upset when they talked to her. WW asked sister to not delulge anything to me or the rest of her family but the thing is she really hasn't told them much. Almost sounds like a cry for help to me.

Thoughts?

Bump. Looking for some insight even if i get 2X4'd.

Update: It's been sometime I've posted to my own thread

Been working this modified plan b and it's coming to crunch time. I've applied for and received approval to re-finance the home that WW is currently living in with DSs. Closing date is 15 Dec. Our court date for final decree of divorce is 14 Dec. The sep argeement was made a court order in early august which clearly stipulates that either party has the right to buy out the other of the marital home.

Contact with WW has still continued, hence the modified plan b (based on Jennifers recommendation). Up until about a month ago our contact was pretty much limited to the kids and D proceedings. About a month ago we started going to counseling together. Counselor is not familiar with Dr Harley's work but after several interviews, her philosophy is pretty much in line.

This morning I contact WW to let her know I've scheduled a home assessment for 1 Nov. She said "Your wasting your money" I asked what she meant by that. She said "because we're not getting divorced". I asked what she meant and she said "14 Dec ain't gonna happen". I said well the assessor will be there on Monday if that's all you have to say. She said OK and our conversation ended.

This has me wondering. From counseling sessions I know she's been on and off about contact with OM. I also know she still is not very truthful and very much in the fog. I am considering sending her an email which also includes the sample no contact letter.


WW,

I heard you loud and clear on the phone this morning when you said "we will not be getting divorced". If you truly want to avoid that, what is your plan? You know what my plan is to recover our marriage if you read my letter to you from last year. If you do not still have a copy I have attached it. I understand that a plan may be hard for you to define right now. A good start is to send a no contact letter. I have written one below if you have difficulty coming up with one. Cut and paste to a word document, sign it and we will mail it together. In the mean time go to marriage builders, start reading and let me know what your plan will be.

OM,
I want you to know that out of respect and love for my husband and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused him, I will do my best to become the wife he has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

WW



Is this a good idea or not? I think it's short and to the point and only gives her one avenue to stop the D from happening. It also asks her for HER plan. Is this to long? Does it clearly communicate what I want to her do? Is it too cold? Any DJs? Am I jumping the gun?

Please help?

bump

Me, I'm still in plan B (dark as can be), so what do I know?

I do want to say that I suspect, hard as it may be, I would not send the message to her.

She will be rudely surprised when the D does happen OR show signs of being truly able to end her A once and for all before the date (which you know is coming real fast).

So, I think I would let it ride even though you want the marriage saved.

You can not save it. She has to. You can be passively resisting the end by doing nothing but she must step up to the plate. She doesn't sound like she is.

I know you want it saved.

She has to make it happen. You have made your heart known already.

Lookin, why on earth are you in counseling with your WW? Jennifer gave you the go-ahead on a "modified Plan B?" Really?

Whatever happened with the cancer scare?

IMHO, you should go to a pitch-black Plan B. For the past two years, your WW has been a huge cake-eater and calling the shots. She knows she only has to say "jump" and you'll say "how high?" What exactly are you telling your children about this "marriage"? Better yet, what are you teaching them through your actions?

I know this may sound harsh (because it is) but truly... aren't you tired of this merry-go-round?