Chris- I think you are fooling yourself into thinking that you don't have that "gut feeling". Really, think about that. You posted on a forum that discusses A about some texts that you found. You do have the gut feeling, you are just trying to talk yourself out of it.

As far as if your (W)H is sleeping in the same bed as you. My WH slept in the same bed as me right until I asked him to leave as I was going to Plan B. We would have continued to have SF if I had pursued it. My WH had his A for, I believe, at least 1 year before I KNEW. There were sporadic cell calls that I discovered last March and were explained away(gaslighting). We had GREAT SF throughout that time period.

If you can wait the 4 days, I don't think that is going to effect you too badly(unless it goes PA in those few days). Just focus on your Plan A and SNOOP. Let us know what you are planning on doing so we can advise you.

I'm surprised to hear that Mr. W and Mark don't see any signs of an A.

Your call, Chris. But I'm going to say this again: there is NEVER an acceptable reason for a married man to use terms of endearment to someone other than his wife. If my H said 'pretty lady' to someone, even in front of me, you can bet I'd be on that like white on rice. That is totally inappropriate. At best, it is a slippery slope and shows a lack of boundaries. It also underscores a lack of protection for your M. I'd be especially concerned in light of her rebuff of your FB friend request. She has NO female friends on FB because they've accused her of saying inappropriate things to their H's??

It's curious that you say you don't have a gut feeling, yet you're posting on here and ordering a SIMS card. I'll assume that you just want to confirm your lack of 'gut feeling'. But when I don't have a gut feeling I don't order tracking devices. And I don't set up a second email account to go online to any sites. I'm O&H and my H is, too.

I hope you're right, and that your H is just exhibiting poor boundaries (that needs to go to the top of your 'must address and correct' list.)

Seriously Scot, I am not fooling myself at all. There is a problem. Even if he isn't having or hasn't had an affair, there is an issue with appropriate boundaries - mimimum.

I am not sure if our marriage can be saved if I discover he's having or has had an affair because knowing him - he would be so angry that I snooped he would try to make it all about that rather than what he has done. Although that's a common and expected reaction for WHs and WWs and we here @ MB have a "plan of action" for that, I am not sure I could take that insult along with the original injuries and keep going with this marriage. (This reasoning still applies if there is nothing found and I feel like I have to confront him about the text message I found.

I posted about this here because this is the room for affairs and suspected affairs. I also posted it on the MB101 side.


I understand.



That's the plan.

They're very knowledgeable / experienced.



Here you are referring to "pretty lady" who seems to be an aquaintance from his Part Time job. I agree with what you are saying and even if I find nothing, the issue of appropriate boundaries and protecting our marriage still has to be addressed.


You are referring to his long time friend and ex-subordinate from military service, Ms. Arizona here. She has exactly 13 FB friends. Some are female and some are not. When he asked her why she would not friend me on FB, he said her reply was what I shared with everyone earlier.

That is most certainly a big red flag and I told him that there's probably something to the situation between her and the women since, by her own admission, it happens repeatedly. The thing is, I have not yet found any inappropriate communications between him and her on FB or anywhere else. I'll know much more when I get that SIM card reader and I check his work phone.


I am ordering a SIMS card precisely because I don't have a gut feeling, and I don't trust my own feelings right now - I have been on an emotional roller coaster for the past few weeks. I am also ordering the SIMS Card reader because of what I have learned here at Marriage Builders: Some people have been fooled until they found "something." I want to be sure I am not being fooled. This seems to be the best way for now. If I find something, I am prepared to do a Plan B including exposure when appropriate. If I find nothing, I am hoping that getting us into MB Coaching or the MB Weekend will get the boundaries issues addressed without me saying I snooped and found that darned text message.

I set up a separate email originally because I felt we were going to get a divorce and I started doing research online about the divorce process. I also needed a place to keep my list of plans & logisitics to help me prepare for a Divorce. At that point, it would have been foolish to have all the info in an email address he could access. After I found MB, I used that email address to regster on this site for reasons which I hope are obvious.

I appreciate your comments and observations. Thank you for being willing to share what you think with me. Please keep doing it.

Chris

I will say that practically ever BS here on MB has thought what you thought


However i know that for me anyway, i said from the day we started dating that if he ever cheated on me that would be it, i would be gone no matter what. But guess what that didn't happen, i am still there trying to work on my marriage three years later.

And i can not tell you the number of BS that have been here and been scared to death to "snoop" or "expose" and guess what a lot of them are in happy marriages now so never say never.

I really am cautioning you because of me for sure, you have read my posts about the "friendliness" even after an affair, so there is never such a thing as "just flirting seeking admiration" crap....... Please just keep checking....

I received 25 roses on our 25th wedding anniversary with a card that said, "Here's hoping to another 25 years with you!" A few days later I found out about his affair. See, the thing about wayturds is that they lie... consistently and sometimes undetected.

Not knocking them in any way but i agree with maritalbliss. I know they are knowledgeable and experienced however (sorry about this) they were dealing with WWs not a WH. I think lousygolfer would be able to tell you about his A and you could see things from a WHs POV.

I'll chime in. About 8 months of some of the very best SF of our marriage...all while he was engaged in a full on EA via computer, IM, etc. with an old girlfriend.

Chris,

Whether you *think* there is an A or not is irrelevant. Any inappropriate behavior warrants snooping.

Installing a keylogger would be prudent as you can see by reading here that A's are basically lurking around every corner. Maybe you caught this when it is in very early stages. Maybe it wouldn't go any further. Who knows?

What I do know is that by even if you do snoop and find nothing, that HELPS you...it doesn't hurt you. Because once those suspicions have been aroused, they don't just go away. They linger and fester...and that will affect they way you feel/interact with your H.

Snooping is a win-win IMO.

Good luck!

Agree that further investigation is the proper course of action.

There are many signs of an affair.

Any one of them does not show a pattern that indicates one though if there is an affair other signs will manifest themselves quickly if you look for them.

The interaction is NOT appropriate action for a married man.

It does NOT show Protection.
It does not show Care.

Yet...

Never attribute to malice that is adequately explained by stupidity (or ignorance).

A PATTERN of bad choices and actions makes me worry. A single event without any pattern in light of other stuff that is positive does not indicate to me that an affair is ongoing.

Red flag?

Absolutely...

Enough to begin exposure and jeopardize jobs?

Not so sure just yet.

Snooping is the solution to lack of evidence.

Investigation...

It bears investigating.

By itself it is so far proof of stupidity.

Other crazy stuff follows if it is an affair.

Plan A:

Meet ENs
Avoid Love Busters.

Become number 1 choice.
Become the best possible answer.

Look to see if other red flags are waving, but KNOW what you are fighting before entering into a war.

JMO.

Mark

I agree that right now Chris should only be snooping, however it is far more than stupity IMO for her h to talk to another woman that way. I would think it would be quite obvious that you should not call someone other than your wife "pretty lady" no matter how stupid you are.....

And we are telling her that this could be the beginning of an EA and for me none of the crazy stuff started happening until it became a PA so we are trying to make sure Chris knows to keep snooping no matter what....

Me too....and for the record, I've already stated that I agree with Mr. W's assessment.

That being said, Chris, a couple of years before H's affair, he left his email open, BY ACCIDENT. I took a gander through it. I found a couple of emails that were "inappropriate" from a female worker. No "pretty lady" comments, but them telling each other a few issue's in the other's marriage. I also found where he had opened an online account to a sex-site. The kind where you try to find a hook-up.

I confronted him. He was remorseful, apologized on end, and stopped the activitity. I was somewhat placaded for the moment. Mostly because I wasn't sure what to do. Didn't even occure to me about asking for his password......

Anyway, that behavior was my really a warning sign of what was to come....

I SHOULD have paid more attention back then......

So yes, KEEP SNOOPING....but lady, I gotta tell ya. The sim card reader is not enough. You HAVE to put Spectorpro on that computer. Mel was right when she said this is the most sure-fire way to find something IF there is something to find.....

As far as feeling guilty.....FIGHT that feeling. Take it from me....I was a guilt-ridden snooper for months who hated the whole danged thing. BUT, after I found what I needed, I didn't feel ONE OUNCE of guilt. And only regretted not doing it sooner....



ABSOLUTELY!!!! You can't fight what you don't know....

not2fun

Woah.

What Mark has said is my thinking on this:

I don't need to trust my gut here...I need evidence which confirms whether there is an affair. No doubt about it - what he did is inappropriate for a married man:

"Miss you baby"
"What's up with you pretty lady" etc?
Right.


The ongoing friendship with Ms. Arizona?
Check.


This is my plan right here--->

SuzieQ, you are right and I will definitely keep snooping.

SC, thanks - I fully intend to be in snoop mode.

Not2 and everyone who recommended the computer monitoring - I am considering it. For me the issue is installing it and setting things up so he does not detect it - I don't feel savvy / knowledgeable enough. The other issue is if I get enough evidence from the SIM Card Reader, what would be the point?

Chris, I had a battle with my ethics too, when it came time to snoop on my stbxw. I felt it was so wrong. And it went against all of my beliefs.

The people here convinced me that I needed to "get over" my reluctance and learn the truth. It was easier for me, of course, because my stbxw had already confessed the affair. She just hadn't told me who, when, where, why or the other things.

My attorney also urged me. Not officially, of course. But that if I was going to look for evidence, I had better get really SOLID evidence.

So I did.

I didn't buy eBlaster/Spectorpro. I bought WebWatcher. She never caught on. I bought a GPS and tracked her moves. By this time, it was too late to monitor her phone, but I did the next best thing beforehand: I photographed the text messages between the two of them.

Even my attorney said I had enough that if I wanted to, I could sue on the grounds of adultery.

Since you and I both live in the Commonwealth of Virginia, you know that the courts would rather hear "no-fault" cases than anything else. Since my stbxw has nothing, there is no gain for me (no kids) to take that route.

But I know what I know, and I know what I've done both to uncover and expose the affair and try to restore my marriage, and how I've implemented Plan B and have worked very hard to get on with my life.

And I also know with every fiber of my being that she is currently riding on a locomotive that has its destiny in a collision with the Karma Bus.

As the therapist I sought for my emotional healing told me, "In cases like this, it's best just to step out of the way and watch the wreck."

Do it. When you look back some day -- no matter how it turns out -- you will be glad that you did. The knowing (whatever it is you learn) is far better to take than the not knowing!

Tried to get on his work phone (Samsung Jack)... it was password protected and I could not guess the password. So, I asked him if I could use it to view my hobby site on the Internet Browser from the cell phone perspective.

He unlocked the phone and handed it right to me without hesitating. The phone seems very complicated; however, I was able to look through all emails received (couldn't find "sent items" and the text & IM are inactive)...The emails date back to December 2009. I found nothing but work related stuff and a few jokes from a male friend which My H forwarded to me on previous occasions. I checked the Contacts and found Ms. Arizona's work email & work phone number...no other women and definitely not "pretty lady." There were no emails from Ms. Arizona either. BTW - the work cell phone shows what is in his email account at work too.

The SIM Card Reader has been shipped and is ariving via Fed Ex. It shouldn't be too much longer until I receive it.

Chris- I also recommend snooping. It didn't feel right to me but as someone pointed out, there is a vast difference between privacy and secrecy. I went with the E-Blaster from specterpro. Very easy to install and very hard to detect.

The instructions are pretty fool-proof and only takes about 5-10 minutes. It really is invisible.

I must add a disclaimer though. My WW did detect mine. I slipped up and mentioned to OMW that I had it. She in turn told OM who told WW. She downloaded a program specifically to find it and she did. Had I not mentioned it, it would still be on today.

I had it on for about 6 days and unfortunately, it was more than enough time to confirm my suspicions.

The peace of mind is worth it. Snoop.

By the way, I am very sorry you are here but know that you are not alone.

Is there the possibility of ANOTHER phone? This certainly looks like a duck.

The email that I read from my FWH to OW used the term "lovely lady" in it. He hadn't talked to me like that since we were dating and I KNEW something was up.

Keylogger should be installed. It's not real hard. Spectorpro is real good and it walks you through the installation. Don't know much about the other ones. How about a gps tracker?

FYI Chris you may be in my neck of the woods. I'm on the Peninsula.

Hi M,

No possibility of another phone. All money movement is 100% transparent.

At this point, I am eagerly awaiting the SIM Card Reader. The contact with Ms. Arizona and "Pretty lady" seem to be limitted to the personal cell phone.

Still considering the Computer monitoring.