It looks like I will be talking to Steve by myself because H isn't ready to work on marriage until he has fixed himself. He isn't sure if our marriage is going to work out. I asked him then why did you come back and he said he wanted our marriage to work and now he isn't sure it is.

I am a very happy and optimistic person and I don't think I should be responsible for another person's happiness. I shouldn't make them unhappy. If a person can never be happy on their own no one should be responsible to make that person happy because eventually it won't work. We are responsible for our spouses happiness but if they are already unhappy and have been their whole life then they need to get IC to see what they can do to help themselves. My counselor is behind Dr. Harley's principles and said we should use them but she says that H needs to fix himself before we can fix our marriage. H counselor told him that he wanted him to try techniques/exercises to help him with his unhappiness when he saw him again this week. He also suggested that H increase his medication because he was getting enough and that he needed to go back to the gym. I do know that this counselor has weekly seminars for couples and is successful. Asked H to find out if this counselor uses Dr. Harley's principles. Don't know if he will because he wants to fix himself first.

Still hoping and praying.

This is an excuse to avoid working on the marriage. It is a diversion and a distraction from the real problem. I am sure he is getting these lines from his counselor. Hopefully, Steve can get him on the phone and overcome this obstacle. Because thats all it is, a self contructed obstacle.

Steve doesn't counsel couples in conflict together anyway [it is a disaster] so it doesn't matter for now if he won't agree to speak to Steve.


If he refuses to do anything about the problem, it won�t work out. That is a self fulfilling prophecy. If you don�t lift a finger to fix the problem it won�t get fixed.

Traci, just so you know, depression is common for adulterers. When a person violates their conscience in such an egregious manner, it can�t help but have an effect on ones mental health. Depression is the rule rather than the exception. It is also common for them to rewrite history and paint their past as �unhappy.� [they are comparing their affair feelings to the past]

Regardless of the truth, the solution is to focus on the present and not on the past. As he distances himself from his affair his depression will dissipate. I agree it is a good idea for him to take an anti-depressant because that will ease his withdrawal.

Creating a happy, romantic marriage will resolve his depression because it will fill the gap left by his fantasy affair. The more time goes on, the less chance you have to do this. It is alarming to me that there is no plan in place to fix your marriage because not doing so leaves your H wide open for a resumption of the affair, or the start of another. The longer this goes on untended the less chance you have of recovery.

The notion that he needs to �fix himself first� before fixing the marriage is to put the cart before the horse and will not result in happiness. He needs to fill the GAP left by his affair and that has to be done with a good marriage. That is not being done. Having an unhappy marriage will keep him depressed and will do nothing to fill the gap left by the affair, whereas a happy marriage facilitates one�s PERSONAL happiness. The 2 goals are NOT mutually exclusive and using one as an excuse to avoid the other will not result in personal happiness or a happy marriage. A happy marriage affects all aspects of one�s life in a very impactful way.

Working on the marriage with qualified coaches is what will make the difference. If this was my marriage, I would not risk my marriage on an unproven source.

Dr. Harley states that once a WS has finished with the withdrawal and their depression has lifted then one can work on the marriage and follow his concepts and have a great marriage and it could take 6-24 months for this to work. But first my H has to get over his withdrawal and depression. We are already spending a lot of time together, talking a lot and being open and honest. I am trying to meet his emotional needs as he lets me.

Just put in a request for an appointment with Steve and hope to hear from him soon as to when we can talk. I just need some advice from him as to what to do with my H and our marriage.

I finally have decided to take care of myself and be happy and show my H that I can be happy no matter what. I am going to do what I want and that is to fulfill his EN and I am not going to let him keep me at arms length. I am going to fill his Love Bank up before he even realizes it.

Still hoping and praying.

Traci, Dr Harley does not make couples WAIT to work on recovery. He throws them right into it immediately. IMMEDIATELY. In fact, Steve will not even allow his clients to come out of Plan B unless the WS has committed to a recovery PLAN that begins immediately. Your H should not wait, he has a very small window of opportunity to be working on the recovery of your marriage. If he doesn't then that opportunity is lost. I don't even get the sense that your H believes there is HOPE in your marriage, which makes things worse. The more hopeless he is, the less chance that he ever will work on the marriage. Giving him HOPE and having a PLAN for rebuilding romantic love will greatly alleviate his depression. But he has no feasible plan here.

Creating a great, romantic marriage is one of the very things that will RESOLVE his depression. He does not need to go to IC FIRST, he needs to be focused on marital recovery NOW before it is too late.


I am relieved you are finally getting the help you need for your marriage.


Well, I would say that taking care of your marriage by creating a romantic relationship will make you BOTH happy.

Talked to Steve on Friday and got good advice. Steve wants to talk to my H now but he is refusing to talk to him. Says that he just wants to get more money out of us and I told him that the reason it costs that much is because the have a great success rate and that it is worth it if it works. He finally agreed to talk to Steve if we hadn't made any progress by the end of April. I am trying to get him to work with me with what I have learned from Steve. He does agree with what little I told him that I learned from Steve. Steve did tell me not to tell him everything we discussed. I do feel a little bit more optimistic since Friday.

Can't wait until this Saturday. I am hopin that Nissan gets the switch in to fix the top on my 350Z so H and I can go cruising down the beach. It is suppose to almost 80 degrees here in Panama City. It should be fun. Also plan on going to what we call Friday Fest downtown. It is the first Friday of every month. They have booths set up and live music everywhere. We need to get out and have fun.

Still hoping and praying.

Sometimes I just want to hit my H with a 2x4. He is still saying he doesn't love me and that we have nothing in common. Told him that I am tired of hearing that because he has a defeatest attitude. He isn't even working on the marriage yet. He isn't doing anything. He still keeps telling me how much of a good person I am and that we are friends and that he thinks if things don't work out we could become such "great" friends! Bull c***! Told him again all or nothing. Told him that I cannot be friends with someone that I want to be more than friends with. He doesn't understand. He thinks that we can be friends because of the girls and when I find someone else and am happy. Told him no. I don't plan on getting with anyone else for several reasons. I love him, the only thing out there around my age have already been married and divorced at least once and probably fooled around on their wives, and last is that I don't want to go through this crap again whether it is a husband fooling around on me or doesn't want to be married any more.

Told H that I had faith in God and that I don't doubt that He will fulfill my prayers and that is the difference in us. I have faith and he doesn't. H has never read the Bible and he has one! So far God has fulfilled my prayers. I believe what Mark 11:22-24 says. It has been my mantra ever since God showed it to me.

Hope everyone has a wonderful and beautiful Easter.

Still hoping and praying.

Sometimes I wonder when H will come out of this fog he is in. When he came home over 3 months ago he said he had to get past her and his feelings for her. He says has now and can never see himself back in that situation and doesn't want to go back to that. Now his excuse for not working on our marriage is that he has to find happiness within himself. I think it is just an excuse. I don't know what to do any more. He says that I am a good person and that I am doing everything right. He also tells me he doesn't love anymore. Told him that he needs to work on the marriage. Even talked to Steve Harley. Unfortunately H won't talk to him. Finally told H that I would continue doing what I have been doing and that I wasn't going to push him any more. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I've done everything that I can do. The real problem is, is that I think he really does love me. I just hope he doesn't realize it too late.

Tracy,
I am really sorry about all you are going thru. It is hard.
Reading the bible or other spiritual writings shows the willingness to enlighten oneself and follow a path of integrity. You H is not at that level. He is all wrapped into himself.
I also used Steve Harley and in those days he used to tell me that H was intoxicated with himself. You H might very well still have feelings for OW or fantasize about her.
Whatever he is doing he is putting energy elsewhere and not in the M. He is convinced he can't be happy with you and the M. He slapped the label: impossible on the M and the label "I can only be friends with W because I can never love her again."
If he is puttin up a wall there is very little you can do to change him. As you said, you can't make him drink.
I feel for you as I went thru the same drama after his first A and now of course.
Really, check out Anthony de Mello on youtube. It helped me!
blessing

Everything seems to better. Had a long talk with H last week and said everything I felt and it came out right and strong. I didn't even start to cry this time. H and I finally came to a decision that we were putting too much pressure on ourselves. We are now just going to relax and have fun together and see where things go. Since we have come to this decision we have been enjoying each other more.

I have only been working no more than 2 days in a row at the hospital this past 2 weeks and it makes a big difference. I feel better and I am more relaxed. I still work about 7-8 days every 2 weeks and those are 12hr shifts. I make out my own schedule and I work the same days every week.

Going to have H teach me how to play pool this weekend. I can play a little bit but I really suck at it. This should be very interesting and funny if nothing else.

Still hoping and praying.

Have been gone from here for several weeks. Been trying to work on marriage. It's a bust.

Husband started going out with his buddies every Saturday night and staying out late. He kept in contact with me most of the night. Finally had it out with him last week about this because of several things. Told him I was through and eventhough I loved him and wanted him to stay I needed him to leave. He didn't leave and he even was constantly texting me all day. Yesterday I told he had to leave because I was tired and couldn't do this anymore. I was the only one working on the marriage and that I needed him to work on it too and he wouldn't. I also wasn't getting any of my emotional needs met. He told me he wasn't ready to work on the marriage yet. I got the same old thing again, that he didn't love me any more and didn't know if he ever would. Told him he had to leave because I was tired of being hurt by him. He said he was sorry and that he would look for a place. Funny thing is is that he still wants to date me and see if we can rekindle anything since the pressure will be off once he moves out. I don't know about that because even though I love him, I hate him too because of everything he has put me through.

Looks like I finally found my backbone. Actually I never lost it, it was here the whole time, I just had to stand up straight. I still want my marriage to work. Maybe if he moves out into a place of his own my H will finally realize his mistake. Part of me just doesn't care any more. I told him that he could now party to his heart's content and be single. I know he will finally realize how empty an existence that is and how much money he doesn't have. I still can't believe he wants us to go out on dates. One thing he will realize is is that he has no one to really talk to about how he feels about everything.

Well, no going back. I will have to see this through.

I wish I was on my computer.
Forgive short response, please.
Tell H
"this is not good enough"

once he's out, plan B dark as midnight in the Forrest.

Date your H ???? As if "spit".

I'm so sorry, Traci. Pep is right though. You need to go into a very dark Plan B. You are strong. You can do this.

God's Blessings,

Say

Sorry Traci, everyone is right on, NO dating him....Dark plan B. Save your sanity.

Well, I am just going to add to the voices. NO DATING. PLAN B. That's all I was thinking while reading your post.

He wants to be single and date you so you can provide the $$$ for him to lead a single life.
Dark Plan B...and work on yourself.
Blessing

I can't remember, Traci, if you and H ever did any phone sessions with the Harleys?

The only way he will see what he is missing and giving up is if your are gone and out of his life, you need all of a relationship and a love from a husband, not just scraps he feels like throwing you.....
Stand up for yourself, be happy with just yourself, you deserve more than he is giving you.....
Make him stand up to the plate or lose you and all you have to offer him....
Plan b like the others suggest......they are good at the plan building, they know what works.....listen.......
good luck