O.V.E.R....A.N.A.L.Y.Z.I.N.G

Got read some old threads here for wisdom. Go read some of Harley's stuff. Go read some current threads to gain perspective.

Give the gerbils in your head something to do other than sit and think about vampira and her garbage. You have no control over what she does or what husband does. Only yourself. So go read, please.

Larry

Yes over analyzing. Isn't that what women do?

I see what you're saying. I am reading. In between posting and stuff I do read through this stuff. What threads should I be reading??

And one other thing...I know I can't control what they do. That sucks. haha. But I am so hopeful that she is doing dumb stuff so that way my dumb WH can hopefully see how stupid he is being and realize that the grass isn't greener. No, not at all.

Tinker:


Yea, which is why women need men, who under analyze.

Pep's Notable Posts

Secret link to Pep's stuff. Do it in a different window and keep it handy. It is organized differently. No clue how she did it.

Larry

Thanks Larry,

I will check out that link. And yes I agree that women need men who "under analyze".

Hoping and praying that I will have my H back sooner rather than later and ready to go into recovery. I think he is the one who is over analyzing now....he never did before. Interesting.

Could I suggest MY thread. My WH is having an A with a co-worker "just friend." It is also REALLY LONG. There is a lot of off topic things, but that's because I am Okay with t/j(thread jacks). I figure sometimes it will keep my mind focused on what my goals are. It is 163 pages right now, so it is a LONG read. HEHEHEHEHE.

Wow and funny about Vampira being mad at your WH. March/09 I found out about some phone calls my WH made to POSOW and lied about for 9 months. I confronted. I even called POSOW and told her that I needed to speak to her face to face(I had talked to her before and even met her once, in Jan 08 when I found WH at POSOW's apt). She met me. We talked. I still remeber the moment when I told her that the biggest mistake I made was telling my WH that he could still talk to her and he talked her out of quitting. She said, "Do you really think he would have stopped talking to me?" She said it with such smugness that I seriously wanted to smack her right across the face. The next day, I left for a night to think about what I wanted to do. I gained my courage. I soul searched and realized that I didn't want to live like this. I could survive without him.

Well, he called me repeatedly. He begged me to come home. That was Friday. Saturday and Sunday were great. He went to work on Monday and he was cold as ice. I asked what was wrong and do you know what he said? "Thanx a lot. POSOW won't talk to me. She is mad. She thinks that I am telling you that I am going to her place and then going out with someone else. She thinks I am cheating on YOU." I asked, "Why would she care?" No answer. Well, I now know why. She was afraid he was cheating on HER.

Don't worry about what is wrong with him. You have to understand, if your Plan A is getting to him he may act like this too. Don't worry about his reactions. Just do your Plan. Do you have everything ready for Plan B? I mean this baby could come early. You don't want to be typing your PLan B letter in a hospital room.

Oh no, Scottie's thread, ACK, don't throw me in that brier patch. I read it daily and so far, haven't said a word.

Larry

t/j You do? I didn't know that. I thought you did post once though? Hmmmm about the puppies? Yes yes you did. GOTCHA. I think I am going to write about pre MB stuff too because there are 23 months of things that happened that I think other BS's would find useful. t/j over

Ok, you got me.

Not signed to protect the guilty

Thanks scotland. I haven't written the plan B letter yet. I am trying to figure out what I want to say. Basically is it supposed to tell the WH that I am still committed to the marriage and that I need him to stop his affair and commit in order to work on the marriage? Then I tell him the requirements for reconciliation? I understand it is to be a love letter. Do I have this about right?

Stop right here, Tink. I will not allow you to beat yourself up and take the blame for your H's A. The BS is NEVER to blame for a WS's A! He chose to engage in this A. He is using history to justify his A. Nononononono.

You can't unring the bell, that's true. In a perfect world our spouses would know every little detail about our history. But a lot of us didn't do that. I would say the vast majority of people didn't share everything about their history when they married - for various reasons. Maybe they din't feel it was important to the present time, maybe they forgot. Maybe they're embarrassed. Maybe...maybe...maybe. The point is that people normally don't share every little thing.

Now we've become aware of the importance of radical honesty. Okay, so use the tool NOW. Use it going forward. It's really all you can do.

But please don't lose sight of the fact that your H has chosen to stray in order to have his needs met. Consider this: does the OW he is currently seeing have a pristine past? I don't think so! And he knows that. All of a sudden his moral barometer dropped. All of a sudden the rule of a clean history doesn't matter. Because he wanted to have an A with her! His moral judgment of you is a way of justifying his A! Don't forget that!

:::wiping off brow, stepping off soapbox:::

May I jump in here and give some "bullet points" about the Plan B letter?

• Its primary purpose is to help the BS retain whatever love is left for the WS.
• It helps the BS prepare for the possibility that the M may not recover, and pave a healthy path for a future without the WS.
• It is designed to follow Plan A in that it now gives the WS a taste of what life without the BS is like.
• It IS a love letter. It tells the WS spouse that the separation and no contact provisions are just that -- done to retain the love before it's all gone.
• It sets out conditions for the road back to the M.
• Those conditions include
  • A policy of NO CONTACT FOREVER with the OP.
  • A letter to the OP stating the no contact policy, written by the WS but approved and sent by the BS.
  • Other terms and conditions for the basis of marital recovery, including counseling, STD testing, polygraphs etc.
• The designation of an intermediary (IM) through which any necessary communication (childcare, financial, healthcare, etc.) should occur.
• It does not contain any recriminations, self-flagellation, disrespectful judgments, or extraneous emotional outbursts.
• It is both a declaration of love and hope for recovery as well as the establishment of boundaries and conditions.
• It is possibly the last communication the BS will have with the WS. As such, it should be very carefully and thoroughly crafted.

There are examples abounding here, and many of the veterans will help you edit and proofread it if you post it here.

Thanks Fred. As far as having no contact with the WH during plan B...what happens when children are involved? We have two boys who are under the age of 5. I am due with our 3rd son in 4 weeks. When I had talked about leaving before he would get vicious and say that I'd be evil for taking his sons from him.

Might I suggest you start another thread to talk about whatever feelings or thoughts you have about past BF's or experiences before you got married and leave the A in this thread...then never discuss them both in the same thread again? They don't have anything to do with each other...

And PLEASE do not think in your WH's head, this will just make you crazy, and right now your most important job is to put the finishing touches on that baby, and take care of yourself.

I would set a schedule for the phone calls and texts and limit them to 1 or 2 a day. Have the boys call. Do NOT send messages through the boys.

I would start working on a Plan B letter and have it prepared. Get an IM in place. That is how you will communicate. And he will have nearly unlimited access to his children (except if you are in a movie, while they are sleeping, etc...) on the phone, but will have to schedule visits... You can lay this all out in your letter.

Stay in Plan A until after his visit, and when he decides to go back to Ca, to her, you hand him the letter.

Your phone calls and texts right now are bordering on DJ. You are desperate and not thinking clearly. If something is an emergency, it probably isn't. Do not send any more texts that are just "call me" or "I need money". Instead, send the facts, "I need $xx to pay insurance that is due today." It is a more honest way to communicate. And Plan A in other ways... In your 1 or 2 texts OR calls a day you can say things like...I miss you, can't wait till we're a family again, I appreciate all you are doing, I love you, etc.

If he brings up the past just say to him...I'd rather talk to you about that in person. I am looking forward to resolving this.

Do NOT let your husband intimidate you! He is trying to control the situation and it is now not his to control. If he wants to have constant contact with his children, the answer is simple: quit his wayward behavior and return to the marriage. There is no "in between" in this.

Ideally, visitation with children should be managed through your IM. If the IM is willing, they can even act as the drop-off and delivery point. But that's asking a lot. What most IMs do is act as a conduit to establishing the schedule and rendezvous points.

Scotland's story is very rife with tales of Plan B and visitation. She went to great lengths to provide access to the children without exposing herself to her WH's presence. Maybe she'll check in here.

The point is that YOU set the parameters. Plan B is about YOU MANAGING your no contact policy. You cannot (and should not) prohibit his visits, but he is the one who has chosen to vacate himself from their lives and it is he who needs to do the about-face if he wants that to change.

If you have family taking care of your sons while you are having a baby, and are willing to act as a protective shield around you, he can still have contact with his children, and not get a chance to see you.

I would stop texting him, calling him or otherwise.

Let him do all the work to have contact with you right now, and be pleasant and kind and no relationship talk until you send the plan b letter.

In fact, do not keep him up to date about the baby; make him do the work there too.

If he doesn't want to lose contact with his sons, make sure he makes the effort to retain that contact. You must not do it for him.

Have you read The Art of War thread yet?

Thanks for the advice. I won't be talking about the past BF's or whatever anymore b/c I am done holding onto that crap. He hasn't mentioned it at all and maybe that is b/c he realizes it is a crap excuse and since I'm no longer there he can't use me to blame for everything anymore. He is sitting there alone looking at all of our stuff each and every day and night. The toys and clothes and baby stuff are still there. My stuff is still there. I know that would be hard for him. All he has is an empty apt. No more justifying his behavior. He can't anymore. He hasn't even tried to over the phone or thru texts. So I am letting that go......if he wants to discuss it we can discuss it in recovery.

As far as my texting to him goes...I never sent texts like "call me" or " i need money". I would tell him what I needed the money for, specifically and by what date. I would ask him to call me if he had time or I would ask when a good time to talk would be. Sometimes he would call, sometimes not. Other than that the texts I sent were just about me telling him that we all missed him and that we loved him, were praying a lot for the family. There was the one time I messed up and talked about the R. But that was shortlived and never happened again. He has not texted me since yesterday at 11:30am. I have not texted him or called him at all. I am waiting on him. He can make the effort right now.

Okay, I haven't heard from him at ALL today. I have not texted him or tried to call him. Should I break down and do it or let him come to me? Remember the last time I had contact with him was yesterday around noon through a text. I know something was up, something was bothering him. He told me it wasn't about me and told me not to worry. So I decided to give him space. So....

LG- This is part of something you posted about a week ago:

He has no money, a wife an three kids. And a guilt complex that grows by the day. Vampira isn't happy with that, she wants the "happiness" of the care free SoCal living. And your Iowa boy ain't it....At least not in the long run. Your disappearance from his life may just hasten completlyt the explosion of thier affair.

I have a question about the "guilt complex". Ok...you have been the WH so I want to ask you about this. What is the guilt like? I know how I handle my guilt when I have done wrong things and it is NOT at all how my WH is acting. But maybe that is b/c I never had an ongoing affair. I'm just wondering what this guilt does to the WS. What are the signs of guilt coming out? I would guess that a lot of people who are betraying their spouses would bury the guilt and do things to deflect it away from themselves. Obviously my WH has been using past sins against me. So I know that is coming from some sort of guilt. But I'm wondering when the guilt will get so bad that he won't be able to take it anymore. I know that could take years for some people. Just wondering what the signs would be, if any....

Tink- PLEASE STOP FOCUSING AND THINKING ABOUT YOUR WH. Think of this time as your pre-Plan B.

The guilt may NEVER get to him. I mean NEVER. There are some WH's on here who have done some unbelievably things and they haven't come back after YEARS. Don't get tangled up in Affairland. It doesn't make any sense. He is an ADDICT. There are addicts who sell their babies to get their fix.

Have you read any Plan B letter templates to see what you might write? Post your Plan B letter on here so we can help you tweak it.

Do you have someone you can set up as IM. I don't think that him seeing the kids while in Plan B is going to be much of a problem. If he is still living in SoCal, then it will be very infrequent. You can set up an email address for the kids(that's what I did). You could have the IMs read the emails first and then forward them to you to read to the kids. You can have them available for the phone calls anytime. If your WH is still in SoCal and makes visiting schedules to see the kids, you could have someone else be there for drop offs and pick ups.

There is a lot to think about so STOP thinking about WH and start working YOUR PLAN.

Guilt and remorse are different things. You can feel guilty for getting caught, but you are still willing to continue doing wrong.

You can feel remose for what you did, when you get caught or turn yourself in. Then try to ask for forgiveness, make right what was once wrong, and never do the wrong again.

Maybe your WH is guilty, not remorseful.

My counselor said something profound - You cant dwell on the "why...", otherwise we will be here forever.