spring chicken

"I QUIT my job when my H first discovered the A, but the company REFUSED to let me go and actually GAVE ME A PROMOTION!"

Find the person that forced you to "do" the OM to help force you to resign.

Oh wait you chose to "do" the OM and you simply will have to chose to tell the company about you the OM the affair, NC, and how there can't be NC with the both off you still working at the company. Then tell them you need to resign.

Tell them it�s not that you do not like working there. You are happy with the promotion. Thouh you must have NC with the OM.

Some of these comments are nearing the line of personal attacks. Please stop.

Please keep these posts helpful for ALL that may be reading.

Thank You

Thank you for that Breezemb. I appreciate all the advice from everyone, and I appreciate that some of the harsh words were meant for Lost, but I see no need to attack either Lost or me. Both of us are on this board to seek help. Believe me, I KNOW there are plenty of waywards who could care less about saving their marriages, and would not even come near a message board in attempt to save their marriages. I am certainly not a saint, but I am seeking help, as I'm sure Lost is doing as well. if this board is truly going to help marriages, then you have to appreciate the perspective of BOTH the wayward AND the betrayed. Then you will have real insight into how to save the marriage. Personal attacks do nothing more than encourage the wayward to ditch the board and continue in the fog. Shame encourages dishonesty, not disclosure, even though full disclosure is what is needed to save the M.

On a separate note, I do want to thank those of you who have shared your experiences with me and given me some very good, practical advice. Especially SCDW, Lurioosi and Larry. And I liked the advice from the person who suggested the rubber band trick. I need that kind of advice to pull me through the fog. And I also appreciate the perspective of Lost. She is clearly experiencing a lot of the feelings that I am experiencing, and it helps to know that I am not alone. I think the biggest struggle the wayward experiences is the feeling that they are all alone in their struggle. The betrayed goes through he77, I understand that, but at least they can share their pain with their family, their friends, their pastor, and even their spouse. The wayward has no where to go--except to the OM which DOES NOT HELP the M, only perpetuates the ugly cycle. That is why I reached out to this site. I had no one to talk to or share my experience with except the OM which I did not want to do. And I truly appreciate the help that many of you have given me. Please keep the practical advice coming. I don't mind constructive criticism, but I have already called myself every name in the book already, as I'm sure Lost has as well. Don't encourage us to leave the board and the only support system that we have right now. Your advice, your help and your war stories are the only thing helping me to stay focused on my M right now. Without it, I would be too tempted to return to the fog.

SC

You have said several times that my comments have been useful:



I am going to focus on the points above as underlined.

The only difference between a "Good" infatuation and a "Bad" one is the level of collateral damage to others that comes from a bad one, AND, some of the foundation for the infatuation itself.

Given your level of education, I am going to use technical terms: an infatuation rewards us with dopamine highs in the brain. A crush is similar, remember those? We get something out of it, so we continue to act in ways to generate the dopamine high.

In an infatuation, we are our own worst enemy because we project on our target who we believe them to be instead of who they really are. This is nature's silly joke on us that is intended to make babies; continuation of the race. If you are religious, this is one of God's designs that has consequences if you are not on God's path for living and obeying the 10 commandments. If you are not religious, I have another explanation, just ask.

The dopamine high is fueled by contact. Because our dreams are inside, the other person doesn't have to say a word. Contact is enough to reward us with a projection and an emotion. The quickest way to kill a dopamine high based infatuation is to have no contact. Without contact, the brain eventually "Dries up" the receptors that gave us the high and the receptors find other things to do. You can give those receptors a nudge in ways I can explain if you ask.

See, the dopamine high eventually kills itself anyway. Because the high is based on a reality that doesn't exist, after some months or years (up to three/five), it is going to go away on its own. I might mention here that Dr. Harley's concepts and techniques are designed to continue past the time for expiration of a normal infatuation into a lifetime. And they work for a number of reasons.

In other words, you can get the same high from your husband.

In a typical affair infatuation, there is a lot of lying going on. One or both lie to themselves and to the other party to maintain the dopamine high. It just is what it is. So normally, the infatuation doesn't last as long as a more normal "Good" infatuation between those who are not in committed relationships. Reality and time kills the infatuation.

You infatuation for OM is going to go away sooner or later. You can hasten this process by eliminating contact, all contact, period, by whatever means it takes to stop it. No reinforcement, the need for the high dies. Another technique is to come clean. Delete the guilt that can also prolong the longing for the high. Catholic confession is partially based on this concept.

In other words, you don't hang on to even a shred of your prior self respect, because that also allows you to hang on to your feelings of infatuation, the dopamine high that is so self destructive. Then, you rebuild your self respect based on your change into a new person, one who is very unlikely to repeat the mistakes that led you down the primrose path into self destructive mode.

Does that make sense to you?

No contact, full confession, rebuild your life on the foundation of honesty. Then look back and go "Wow!"

If you buy what I have said, I can go on to how to rebuild with your husband if he wants that.

Larry

SpringChicken, I have re-read this thread and honestly see no "personal attacks." Rather, I see many posts that accurately define your behavior. That is not a "personal attack," it is much needed honesty, something that has been sorely missing from your life for a very long time. So please lose the very inappropriate victim act. You are not a victim, Madam; you are the perpetrator of a horrendous crime. You have not faced the truth about who you really are, and instead have told yourself lies in order to continue your life of lies. This is why truthful statements are so scary to you.

If someone does attack you, I would suggest you notify the mods and let them handle it, rather than lecturing other posters on what constitutes appropriate behavior. Something you are ill equipped for.

This forum is not going to gloss over sleazy behavior with foggy weasel words, I assure you. I PROMISE you. That is a sick, dysfunctional practice that differentiates this forum from others. Folks here are not going to help you pretend that you are something you are not. While you might "think" that is not helpful, you are the least qualified to make such a judgment. The least. Your best thinking got you in this sad fix. You are the least qualified to decide what will help you recover and what won't. Keep in mind that WE are recovered............and you are NOT. The blind cannot lead the seeing. You are the least objective person on this thread [after lostinspace, that is] If truthful language causes you to leave, then you weren't sincere in the first place. Wild horses could not run off someone who really wants to change. But folks here won't enable you to run from the truth.

Secondly, guilt and shame are your conscience's warning system that something is very wrong. People feel shame when they have done things they should feel ashamed about, as you have here. You should feel ashamed. If you do not feel shame and guilt for what you have done, then there is probably something very wrong with you. [sociopaths don't feel guilt or shame] You have probably been running from your very appropriate GUILT for a very long time using mental masturbation tactics like compartmentalization and bizarre rationalizations, right? We have all been there.

I would assert this has not helped you one bit. A better solution is to stop running from it, and EMBRACE IT. EMBRACE your guilt. Feel it and let it wash over you. It is your FRIEND. It is your conscience screaming that you are in violation. It is calling for some relief.

So rather than trying to run from your screaming conscience, a better solution is to stop the violating behavior. Stop the adultery. Stop the lying. The solution is to change the behavior, rather than attempting to change the screaming conscience. It won't be silenced, SC.

SC

Just so you know, I find nothing in Mel's post that is inconsistent with what I have said to you. You have to clear the boulders out of the way to find bedrock upon which to rebuild. No excuses.

Think about it.

Larry

SC,

I've yet to post to you, so "Hello" & "Welcome"! I have read your thread, so I have been "listening"...I am a FWW in an awesome recovered marriage - my husband and I read all the books and went to the MB Weekend - All Excellent, I can't recommend them enough - DDay was 5 years ago - I have never once regretted staying in our marriage - No question it was THE RIGHT THING to do - No one ever regrets doing the right thing, btw...All that said, let me talk to you about this post of yours a bit...


Whoa - that was quite a lecture! Slow down - realize that many of the folks posting to you have been here a LONG time & have acquired a vast amount of knowledge about adultery in that time - They are either BSs or FWSs - Each of those kind of people understand perfectly where you are right now - I hate to tell you this, but "the wayward perspective" is not one bit unique and it sure isn't helpful for anyone with a wayward perspective to post to you...A FWS is a whole different person - Many of them, myself included at times, will hit you HARDER with 2x4s than any BS here - WHY? Because we KNOW how bad you are screwing up, and it sickens us, and yes angers us at times as well...

Anyway, something you need to hear, imo - GET HUMBLE - Realize that NO ONE here "owes" you their time, but many are choosing to give it to you - FREE - Instead of "lecturing" them, why not thank them - realize you aren't entitled to their help AND that right now, you are in no position to decide who knows what here - YOU are the one in crisis - YOU are the one trying to keep your head above water - Most of the people that are posting to you have already overcome their crises - they hold the life preserver that you need - Your choices are yours, I can't make you do any of that obviously, but I can tell you that if I were you, I'd not shoot at the rescue 'copters...I found that the posts that angered me the most when I first came here, ended up being the most helpful ones - I couldn't see that at the time because I was foggy - but those posts - the hard hitting ones - the ones filled with unpleasant truths? Those are the ones that helped clear my fog...

I'd be careful of lecturing some and then handing out "selective thank yous" to others if I were you - You could miss out on some very valuable stuff by doing that...

Next, stop trying to lay YOUR CHOICES at the feet of others - No other regular member has the ability to MAKE you leave this board - If you want help, you will stay and accept it, and you will do the hard work necessary to help yourself...But make no mistake about it, either way will be YOUR CHOICE...


Again in this paragraph, I am going to remind you that YOUR CHOICES ARE YOURS...Every single choice you have made is the reason your life is what it is today - YOUR CHOICES PUT YOU HERE - I keep emphasizing that because I hear you wanting to make others responsible for your choices - I get that - I thought that way too - Know what helped? Realizing I was wrong and owning all of my choices - Very empowering, that...

You aren't gonna get much sympathy here for "wayward struggles", "wayward pain", your "shame", or names that you've called yourself...Btw, it is HEALTHY for you to feel shame about shameful things, if you did not you'd be a sociopath! Should you end up in a place that is passing out sympathy to waywards and patting you on the back for pity parties - RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!!! That means you are in a BAD and ENABLING place...You get no sympathy for that in healthy, good places because (1) You brought this on yourself by YOUR CHOICES...and (2) Sympathy won't help you - commiseration does nothing but keep you miserable - Who wants that?

Personally, I'd much prefer steering you towards redeeming and esteeming yourself...I hope that is the path that you will choose...

Mrs. W

SC

Because you singled me out for posting something you felt was helpful, I am also going to comment when someone else offers you advice you might not like.

I agree with Mrs.W's take.

Once again, you gotta get the boulders out of the way to find bedrock and build on that foundation, and you have to give up the internal justifications to reach that point.

This is a collaborative forum. Each offers their take. I didn't like lost's comments to you because they were not made from the perspective of someone who has recovered their balance.

Listen to the ones who have walked in your shoes and found a path to personal sanity, not the ones who are still in the fog.

Please.

Larry

Great post, MrsW!

I disagree.
I think it's easy for the WS to focus on 'I'm so alone in my struggle' as a way to avoid coming to terms with what they have done.
Your focus is misdirected.

This sounds like we BS's should feel fortunate for ourselves, that we have someone to share with.
BS's don't choose to be assaulted.
There is nothing fortunate, (you use the term 'at least') about a devastating situation that is forced upon you.

Go to the park ..... and scream.
If you want to stop thinking of OM, then stop talking about him.
YOU are allowing him space in your head.
Space that should be occupied with how your poor BH feels.

You need to read some threads of BS's and get a real feel for what you have done.

Again, your focus is on POSOM.

POSOM, like yourself, are not the victims here. Concentrate on the victims.

POSOM = piece of sh** other man

Here's a tip.
Every thought about OM, rename him ~~~> POSOM

Or refer to him by his real name ...

OMW's husband

Example:

Debbie's husband

YOU, Chicken, are obsessing about a sister-woman's husband, and we betrayed wives don't think much of you when you do this.

This is HER husband.
Think about your own husband.
Soooooooooooo ... keep reminding yourself whose HUSBAND he is.

He's none of your business.
Keep out of their business.
He is married.
Is that not enough of a boundary for you?

You have not established NC. Can you acknowledge that or not?

As I read through your comments, I feel like what you are trying to get from this board is ways that you can R your M while you continue working with OM...

It's not going to work, period...

You are not going to get over your infatuation with OM even if you are able to find a way to avoid talking to him at work.

It's nice that you are on this board and trying to get help. But as long as you continue to work with OM, you are doing the cruelest, most hurtful thing that has probably ever been done to your H (watch Dr. H's infidelity video on the home page).

I am sorry if you feel people are being harsh to you, but you are foggy..and I don't think you realize how close you are to losing your M. The posts that made you the most angry are the ones you probably need to go back and read.

First off, the POSOM is not married. Second, I apologize if my post sounded like a lecture. I appreciate the advice everyone has given me. That being said, many of you have been long on judgment and short on help. ML, I understand that you think I'm a POS. So do I. So we have something in common. But you have yet to give me one single practical tip to help me recover. I agree with everything you've said to me. I think it's consistent with the advice everyone else has given me. I'm just telling you that it has not been helpful for me. If I want someone to tell me I'm a POS, I can just look in the mirror. I don't need to come on this board for that. Mrs. W, you are a FWW. Then you should have some ACTUAL TIPS to help me get past this and focus on my M. You said you re-built your marriage and that it's better than before. But you didn't tell me how you put the OM behind you. That's what I want to know. I have read SAA and have read Dr. Harley's advice. I am looking for real life examples of that advice in practice. Please tell me how you used his advice in your own marriage.

If you're not interested in helping me, then please don't post on my thread. i'm not trying to play the "victim" here. I can handle your judgment. It's just that I'm looking for something more concrete and practical. I'm looking for encouragement that I can turn this mess around; that I can make my M better.

I am sorry for shouting out to specific posters, but some of you have really, really helped me and I'm not sure how to contact you individually. I'm obviously new to posting on a message board, and I'm not sure how long I intend to continue. I don't want to dwell on my past. I want to avoid the mistakes I have made, learn from them and move forward in building my M. And I appreciate all of the input that I have received.

As a WW, I welcome the opportunity to help anyone who has walked in my shoes. The one thing I've learned through all of this is not to judge others for their mistakes, but to help them overcome them. If I can take your advice and apply it to my own life, I believe I can be of service to someone else in the future.

Larry, you may not want to offer me any more advice based on my comments in this post, but I do appreciate your words of wisdom. If you are willing to do so, would you please offer me some further insight on your statement, "Without contact, the brain eventually "Dries up" the receptors that gave us the high and the receptors find other things to do. You can give those receptors a nudge in ways I can explain if you ask." I would appreciate it. If there is a way I can post to you without specifically calling you out on my thread, please let me know.

One final thought before some of you go crazy on this thread and start chastising me for playing the victim, and reminding me of how much I've hurt my family, my H, etc. etc., and that I'm a total POS who's done a horrible thing: Has Lost posted on this thread recently? Where has she gone? Do you think that she got the help she needed?

Oh, oh, oh SC...You are in a hole - the best advice I can give you is to STOP DIGGING!


Appreciate the apology - the reason it sounded like a lecture is because it WAS a lecture...Acknowledge that, move on and STOP lecturing, okay?


You realize of course that your second sentence canceled out the first entirely, right? SC, don't come back and try to explain - recognize it, vow to knock it off and LAUGH AT YOURSELF! Life really isn't this hard...Stop flailing...


It may surprise you to know that ML and I are friends - She does NOT think of ME as a POS - Of course that is likely because I don't think I'm a POS - The reason I don't think I'm a POS is because I am choosing to live a life filled with GOOD CHOICES now...I would expect both she and I to think I was a POS if I was still making poor life choices and choosing to be bad...


You CHOOSE to put OM behind you - It's really that simple - a choice - you realize that that choice may not "feel" good in the short term, but you use logic and reason instead of your feelings and choose what is the obvious right thing...

You choose to practice RADICAL HONESTY with your husband and yourself...

You choose NO CONTACT FOR LIFE...

Here's the BEST lesson I've learned here - hammered into me by MelodyLane as a matter of fact:

FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS

You focus all your energy on YOUR MARRIAGE - on YOUR HUSBAND...MEET HIS NEEDS...

Remember in the affair you focused all of your time and energy on OM and look what happened~~~> Your feelings followed your actions, correct?

So choose HEALTHY, POSITIVE ACTIONS~~~> HEALTHY POSITIVE FEELINGS will be the result...No joke it's that simple...That IS the "magic bullet"...

As as Vittoria told you, STOP TALKING ABOUT OM - The dog you feed is the dog that thrives - Quit feeding the BAD DOG...

INVEST IN LIFE - The life you chose by getting married to your husband...

Have you considered calling the coaching center or attending an MB Weekend? Those are things you can do to INVEST in YOUR LIFE...


Let this kind of stuff go - BE HUMBLE - If you don't like something that is said TODAY, then leave it - "Take what you need and leave the rest" - Come back and read your thread when some time has passed - I bet you will find lots that you left "back then" you'll now want to pick up...


You can't contact people here individually by means of MB - Private messages are disabled on this board with good reason...Hint: When you say "I'm sorry, BUT" you cancel out the "sorry"...

Nor do I "dwell" on my past - It is not who I am today - Today I make good choices - but I will never forget what I did 5 years ago - It will remain BAD to me forever - It will always remain shameful - Nothing that I have done since then and nothing that I will do in the future can change bad into good...

I caution you in telling your BH anything like "I refuse to dwell on my past"...That would be a BAD plan...


Well, with all due respect, as a WW you are not qualified to help anyone - THIS is a case of "put your own oxygen mask on first"...Should you choose to become a FWW, THEN you may have something of value to offer others in the way of help...

Judging bad behavior as bad is NOT a bad thing - It is very valuable - Let me assure you that I absolutely judge my bad behavior as VERY BAD, and I expect others to as well...People that won't knock me silly for my bad behavior are NOT true friends to me, and I don't want or need them in my life...


Oh I have no doubt that Larry will continue posting to you...


Do you seriously believe that others can make choices for Lost [or anyone else]???? C'mon springchicken, you know better than that, right?

Lose the defensiveness - it will not help you make good and healthy choices...

Mrs. W

I just LUV Mrs. W's posts!!

True wisdom comes from those that are truly repentant!