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NOTE: It is FINE to thank specific posters - just not while chastising others - that's just not good form, KWIM?

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Originally Posted by tst
I just LUV Mrs. W's posts!!

True wisdom comes from those that are truly repentant!

Even if she is "blond".
rotflmao

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How should affairs end?


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Some affairs are "one night stands." They usually take place when a spouse is away on a trip, or when one has gone out partying without the other spouse. These relatively loveless affairs usually happen when people drink and lose impulse control. Alcoholics are the ones most likely to have these flings.

Other affairs start as a caring friendship and develop over years to become a complete relationship that solves most emotional and practical issues for the couple. These relationships become so complete and persistent that spouses are eventually divorced, and the lovers are united in marriage.

But most affairs are somewhere in between one night stands and relationships that lead to marriage.

Affairs usually take place because they meet important emotional needs. But most affairs meet only some emotional needs not met in marriage, leaving others that are being met by a spouse. That fact usually rules out the possibility of divorce, at least for the spouse having the affair. The wayward spouse knows that the lover, for some reason, is not able to meet some of the needs met by his or her spouse. So most affairs are never intended to lead to divorce and remarriage, but are "safety-valve" relationships that satisfy a need not met in marriage.

Affairs are intended to be kept secret

Having drawn the above conclusion about the nature of affairs, it should be obvious why most wayward spouses would like their affairs to go undetected. Not only do they want to avoid all the unhappiness that goes with discovery, but they also want to continue the affair as long as it meets needs not met in marriage. In most cases, a lover only meets one or two emotional needs, while the spouse meets others. Unfaithful spouses usually don't want their marriages to end, and yet they want emotional needs met that the spouse does not meet. Discovery of the affair, in most cases, would ruin the "solution" to their problem.

But there comes a time in almost every affair that an unfaithful spouse realizes that it has run it's course, or it wasn't a good idea to begin with. In some cases, it's the lover who ends the relationship, finding that the spouse isn't living up to expectations. And in other cases, it's the spouse that ends it when the disadvantages of the affair begin to outweigh the advantages.

In most cases, affairs end peacefully and in secret. By their very nature, there is not much of a commitment to hold them together, and a desire to do the "right thing" is usually the excuse an unfaithful spouse uses to end it. But the real reason is usually that the affair has become more trouble than it's worth.

Occasionally, a scorned lover will go berserk, call the spouse all hours of the day and night, file lawsuits and create all kinds of trouble. But that's very rare. Affairs usually end quietly.

In the vast majority of cases, affairs are never revealed to spouses. They are usually kept so secret that even when children are born of an affair, the victimized husband is usually not told that the child he is raising is not really his. I know of over 20 instances where a father is unknowingly raising another man's child.

What are the signs of an affair?

Almost everyone denies an affair at first, even when confronted with overpowering evidence. When a woman I counseled broke in on her husband having sex with a neighbor, he tried to convince her that she was having an hallucination.

While seeing your spouse in bed with a lover is sure-fire evidence of an affair, that kind of evidence is usually close to impossible to find. But there are many other less intrusive ways to detect ongoing affairs.

For an unfaithful spouse to engage in an affair without detection, two separate lives must be created, one for the lover and one for the spouse. A certain amount of dishonesty is required in both of them, but the major deception is with the spouse.

So one of the most common clues of an affair is an unwillingness to let a spouse investigate all aspects of life. If two lives are necessary for an affair, and if a spouse is curious enough, the secret second life is relatively easy to discover. Difficulty in getting a spouse to talk about events of the day can be a sign of trying to hide the second life.

One of the most common smoke-screens used by unfaithful spouses is to express shock that their spouse would be so distrusting as to ask questions about their secret second life. They try to make it seem as if such questions are an affront to their dignity, and a sign of incredible disrespect. They figure that the best defense is a good offense, and so they try to make their spouses feel guilty about asking too many questions.

I am a firm believer in letting each spouse do as much snooping around as they want. Nothing should be kept secret in marriage, and no questions should be left unanswered. If a spouse objects to such scrutiny, what might he or she be hiding?

Another type of clue is records of communication such as telephone records, letters and e-mail. Most affairs depend on repeated contacts and evidence of those contacts can usually be found. That's how M.S. discovered her husband's affair. When his lover was living in the same city, he was able to hide his affair, but after he moved, it became almost impossible for him to keep his communication a secret. He was addicted to daily contact, and M.S. saw evidence of it almost immediately after the move. But how many people move away from a lover? It's very rare, and if M.S.'s family had not moved, she may never have discovered the affair because she trusted her husband.

When a couple spend their leisure-time away from each other, it is not only a breeding ground for an affair, but it can also be another clue to an affair. That's especially true when a spouse doesn't want the other to be present at their favorite activity. I counseled a man who went fishing every summer for a week with his friends, wives not invited. But they did invite a secretary from work who cooked their meals (and had sex with them all) during the trip.

Anything that takes one spouse away from the other overnight is an invitation for an affair. But when an opposite-sex co-worker tends to join a spouse on business trips, red flags should be flying in all directions. Any evidence that this relationship is anything more than pure business is, from my perspective, a gigantic clue that an affair might be in progress. That's also the case if a spouse and opposite-sex co-worker spend a great deal of time working together.

We are all wired to have an affair. We can all fall in love with someone of the opposite sex if that person meets one of our emotional needs. If you don't think it can happen to you because of your conviction or will-power, you are particularly vulnerable to an affair. And if you think your spouse would never have an affair, you are also vulnerable.

Look what happened to poor Kathy Lee Gifford. She stated publicly and wrote in one of her books that she trusted her husband completely, that he would never cheat on her. But she should not have trusted her husband. If she would have taken the steps she is now taking to help him avoid another affair, the first would never have taken place, and she would have avoided all its pain and embarrassment. I don't trust my wife completely and she doesn't trust me, and that's why neither of us have ever had an affair. Lack of trust does not make spouses paranoid and miserable, it makes their marriages safe.

Should an affair be revealed?

I have been letting you in on some clues to infidelity when a spouse is unwilling to be truthful. But there are a few, of course, who are honest enough to tell their spouses about an affair without being confronted. Guilt sometimes sets in right after the first sexual encounter, and it continues to build as one lie is added to another. Depression follows guilt and it's not unusual for a wayward spouse to even consider suicide as a way to escape the nightmare he or she has created. As an act of desperation, honesty is sometimes seized as a last resort, often in an effort to relieve the feelings of guilt.

From my perspective, honesty is part of the solution to infidelity, and so I'll take honesty for whatever reason, even if it's to relieve a feeling of guilt and depression. The revelation of an affair is very hard on an unsuspecting spouse, of course, but at the same time, it's the first step toward marital reconciliation.

Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse.

But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.

It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.

It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.

It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.

After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better.

The Policy of Radical Honesty is one of two rules you must follow to protect your spouse from your self-centered behavior, which includes affairs. The other rule is the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). If you were to be completely honest with you spouse, and you were to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, an affair would be impossible, unless for some reason your spouse wanted you to have one.

If you knew that your affair would be discovered -- that right after having sex with your co-worker, your spouse were to find out about it -- you would probably not go through with it. And if you were honest enough with your spouse so that YOU would be the one to tell him or her what you did, your honesty would be a huge reason to avoid any affair.

How the victimized spouse should respond to the revelation of an affair is a subject of a later column. I do not have the space to treat it here. But a spouse is twice victimized when he or she is lied to about an affair. Truth is far easier to handle than lies.

Some affairs, those like the husbands of R.J. and M.S., are discovered by their spouses. But as R.J. and M.S. have seen, knowing about an affair is only the first step toward recovery.

Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

Look at M.S.'s husband. Here he is, thousands of miles from his lover, and yet he still feels compelled to call her. Can you imagine the trouble M.S. would have had separating them if they had not moved? Their move was the best thing that could have happened to their marriage because it not only revealed the affair, but it also set up the conditions that would make ending it possible -- total separation.

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

How should an unfaithful spouse tell his lover that their relationship is over? If left to their own devices, many would take a Caribbean cruise to say their final good-byes. Obviously, that will not do. In fact, I recommend that the final good-bye be in the form of a letter, and not in person or even by telephone.

My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.

How to Get Through Withdrawal

In R.J.'s case, his feelings for his wife are as bad as they have ever been. In the case of M.S.'s husband, he is suffering so much that he can no longer make love to his wife, something that had always come very easily to him in the past. What is happening to these men?

They are experiencing symptoms of withdrawal from the addiction they have to their lovers.

As soon as a victimized spouse decides to stay married and struggle through reconciliation, he or she usually sets out to meet whatever needs the lover had been meeting. If it was sex, the spouse offers more and better sex. If it was affection, it's more affection. Both M.S. and R.J.'s wife were willing to do whatever it took to regain their wayward spouses' love.

But it didn't work for either of them. That's because both of their husbands were in withdrawal. They were both addicted to their lovers and separation from them caused them to suffer from depression. That, in turn, made it almost impossible for their spouses to meet their emotional needs. So all of that love and care that was being extended to them was being wasted. Until they would recover from withdrawal, the efforts of their wives to please them will be very disappointing.

Withdrawal is the emotional reaction to the loss of something that gives great pleasure. It's similar to the feelings an alcoholic has when he makes a commitment never to drink again. It's also similar to the grief that comes from the loss of a loved one. A lover is like alcohol and like a loved one. Not only do unfaithful spouses miss what it was their lovers did, meeting important emotional needs, but they also miss the person they had come to love.

Our most common emotions are anger, anxiety and depression. Symptoms of withdrawal usually include all of these in a very intense form. I usually suggest that anti-depressant medication be used to help alleviate these symptoms. While the most intense symptoms of withdrawal usually last only about three weeks, in some cases they can linger for six months or longer before they start to fade.

It is extremely likely that a commitment to remain separated from a lover will be broken unless extreme measures are taken to avoid it. That's because the emotional reaction of withdrawal is so painful. Honesty is an extremely important element in reconciliation, and it should be understood that if the unfaithful spouse ever sees or communicates with the lover, he or she should immediately tell the spouse that it happened. They should then agree on a plan that would prevent a recurrence of contact in the future. But as soon as any contact is made, it throws the unfaithful spouse back to the beginning of withdrawal, and the time it takes to overcome the feelings of grief begins all over again.

There's a sense in which M.S.'s husband was in withdrawal even before M.S. discovered
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the affair. As soon as the move was made, he became depressed, and what M.S. noticed the most was his lack of interest in sex. Depression will do that to you (and so will anti-depressant medication -- one of it's only side effects is a loss of sex drive).

If M.S.'s husband were to avoid talking to his lover for three weeks, it's likely that his sex drive would start to return, since the worst symptoms of withdrawal would probably have ended. He has a long history of sexual interest in his wife, and I guarantee that he will eventually do just fine in bed.

The problem that R.J. may soon face is that his wife's cheerful attitude will wear thin. There's no telling how much longer she can try to please him without an approving response from him. Sometimes I tell spouses to just avoid each other until the withdrawal stage passes because all the effort to be kind and thoughtful is easily wasted until they start feeling better.

It's the stage of recovery after withdrawal that gives spouses the best opportunity to learn to meet each other's most important emotional needs and overcome Love Busters. Spouses should save their most tolerant mood for that stage, where they could both be receptive to each other's care. And that will be the subject of next week's column: Learning to meet each other's needs after an affair.

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Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by tst
I just LUV Mrs. W's posts!!

True wisdom comes from those that are truly repentant!

Even if she is "blond".
rotflmao

crybaby

You better stop it - I might leave if you don't! dramaqueen

You're probably just trying to pick another fight with me! Like you did when I first got here...hmmph!

crybaby

LOL! grin

SC, Pepperband was one of those that gave me some hard truths when I first arrived...

I was going on about my now seeing "OM's True Colors"...Pep reminded me that mine were not so hot...*gulp* That STUNG!!! Why? Because it was TRUE!

She also told me that my behavior was BAD, and that I was acting like a JERK!

All true...

Today I am more thankful for her posts back then than I have words to express...

I didn't want to hear that stuff, but I NEEDED to hear it...I'm glad I did...

Mrs. W

P.S. To tst: Well if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black! laugh Your posts are always wisdom packed - I learn from YOU...Thank you!


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Originally Posted by springchicken
Has Lost posted on this thread recently? Where has she gone? Do you think that she got the help she needed?

All "Lost" has to do (if she REALLY wants help) is to read the MB concepts/principles.
(see above)

It's all FREE for the folks who REALLY want to learn and grow.

The ones who really want to defend their adultery choices? They never read/study/practice the MB concepts.

Which side will YOU fall on, Chicken?

Lost is lost, are you?



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Chicken, read
*this*

.... and then POST HERE on your thread, how you will apply Harley's MARRIAGE BUILDERS concepts to

YOUR marriage recovery.

It is a challenge.
I dare you! stickout



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I have read the posts and been asked not to participate. I came for help and feel that what sc has said suffices for me. There is a lot of condemnation and little help. I've read the books, the basic concepts, etc. There is a lot of anger and judgment being cast about. If I wasn't looking for help, I wouldn't have come here. There certainly is a lot of name calling. I expect that my M will ultimately end and has nothing to do with OM. The pain all around is too much to overcome. I defend that doing bad things doesn't make you a bad person. I believe that hurting people isn't good, lying isn't good, and setting a bad example isn't good, but that doesn't make me a bad person. I think that I'm a good person that has lost her way - hence my name. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. There appear to be lots of sinless people on this board because the stones have been flying fast and furiously. Good luck Spring with your recovery and hope that this boar! d will provide you with the support you need to make it through.

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SC

Straight out of the MB textbook, MrsW had given you advice on what to DO that is constructive. Read what she has said in her latest post. Attitude allows action. Action allows change. Change allows recovery. Form follows function. What you do breeds who you are.

What you do molds how you think and who you are. Guilt and shame are motivators to change or to make excuses. It looks to me as if you are wanting the change. BUT, I am not and have never been a WW, so I yield to those who have been to spot the details of a block to progress, a blind canyon of mental process that holds up recovery.

Now. . .

Quote
Larry, you may not want to offer me any more advice based on my comments in this post, but I do appreciate your words of wisdom. If you are willing to do so, would you please offer me some further insight on your statement, "Without contact, the brain eventually "Dries up" the receptors that gave us the high and the receptors find other things to do. You can give those receptors a nudge in ways I can explain if you ask." I would appreciate it. If there is a way I can post to you without specifically calling you out on my thread, please let me know.

Ok.

First of all, no contact for life. No contact for life! You have been told this before. Do whatever it takes to stop all contact with the POSOM. Resolve to have no contact for life.

Write the letter, then do it.

Next, start the MB process with your husband. Court him, flirt with him, remember the real details of your history with him instead of the stuff you told yourself to justify your affair.

If he knows only part of the truth, tell him all of the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Start a new relationship with your husband based on a foundation of honesty.

Replace the thoughts of POSOM with thoughts of husband.

There are not shortcuts. There is no wiggle room for skipping parts of the plan like no contact or lack of honesty. Do all of the deal or fester in one spot, unable to move forward.

Does this help? Do you need more details?

Larry


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rotflmao

I see while I was working up a post and taking care of son, lots of good advice given.

SC, it is all good. Focus on the details Dr. Harley has provided with his advice on how to get through withdrawal.

Larry

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Originally Posted by lostinspace2
I've read the books, the basic concepts, etc.

I see no evidence of it.

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Originally Posted by lostinspace2
I have read the posts and been asked not to participate. I came for help and feel that what sc has said suffices for me. There is a lot of condemnation and little help. I've read the books, the basic concepts, etc. There is a lot of anger and judgment being cast about. If I wasn't looking for help, I wouldn't have come here. There certainly is a lot of name calling. I expect that my M will ultimately end and has nothing to do with OM. The pain all around is too much to overcome. I defend that doing bad things doesn't make you a bad person. I believe that hurting people isn't good, lying isn't good, and setting a bad example isn't good, but that doesn't make me a bad person. I think that I'm a good person that has lost her way - hence my name. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. There appear to be lots of sinless people on this board because the stones have been flying fast and furiously. Good luck Spring with your recovery and hope that this board will provide you with the support you need to make it through.

Tell me please what you use to determine if someone is a "bad person" or a "good person" if not behavior?

Mrs. W


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Do we determine that Hitler was bad because he had an ugly mustache? Or do we look at his behavior to determine he was a bad man?

Mrs. W


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I would hope that lost would start her own thread.

Larry

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"Before you criticize someone,
you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way,
when you criticize them,
you're a mile away,
they are barefoot,
and you have their shoes."





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Originally Posted by springchicken
Then you should have some ACTUAL TIPS to help me get past this and focus on my M. You said you re-built your marriage and that it's better than before. But you didn't tell me how you put the OM behind you. That's what I want to know.

You have been advised several several times that 100% NC is the only way you will be able to get over the OM and rebuild your M. Are you going to address this or continue gaslighting us?


Ddays 2007 and 2011
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Originally Posted by _Larry_
I would hope that lost would start her own thread.

Larry
*here it is*

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Originally Posted by lostinspace2
I have read the posts and been asked not to participate. I came for help and feel that what sc has said suffices for me. There is a lot of condemnation and little help. I've read the books, the basic concepts, etc. There is a lot of anger and judgment being cast about. If I wasn't looking for help, I wouldn't have come here. There certainly is a lot of name calling. I expect that my M will ultimately end and has nothing to do with OM. The pain all around is too much to overcome. I defend that doing bad things doesn't make you a bad person. I believe that hurting people isn't good, lying isn't good, and setting a bad example isn't good, but that doesn't make me a bad person. I think that I'm a good person that has lost her way - hence my name. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. There appear to be lots of sinless people on this board because the stones have been flying fast and furiously. Good luck Spring with your recovery and hope that this board will provide you with the support you need to make it through.

Lost,

I will try one time to reach you (apologize for the TJ here, Spring, but maybe this will benefit you, even if Lost ignores �hearing what she doesn�t want to hear�).

I know that sometimes a WS comes here and feels �attacked� or �name-called�. If you look carefully, you will notice that such things only tend to happen when the WS is in denial, blame-shifting, making excuses, or otherwise doesn�t want to choose the �straight-and-narrow-path� by ENDING THEIR AFFAIR AND ACCEPTING PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

It is all too common for such-WSs to cite the Biblical �let he who is without sin cast the first stone� defense. I heard it verbatim from my then-WW and several of her enabling family members. No one is saying than any of us is �perfect�. No one is saying that any BS has been �mistake-free�. What is being done is pointing out that the current path of the active or unrepentant WS is unjustified, emotionally-driven, self-delusional, and highly-destructive to ALL PARTIES involved. You know, I have noticed that whenever that Biblical reference is made is justify or excuse infidelity/unrepentance, there is always a key portion at the end of the story conveniently omitted�Jesus, after dismissing the stoners, said to the adulteress:

�Now go�and sin no more.�

No one here wants to stone the WS; we do want the WS to �go and sin no more�. That is the ONLY way to begin recovering a person, a life, and a marriage. I hope you can see that key difference here. I hope you can find the inner courage to admit that knowingly continuing in wrong (and you did confess that you know �hurting people isn't good, lying isn't good, and setting a bad example isn't good�) is WRONG & BAD, no matter how �good� a person the WS was before they became �lost�.

Yes, Ms. Lost, your marriage may �ultimately end� and, if it does, that will sadly be because of the choices you have made and refused to repudiate. There is a big difference between someone who genuinely comes here for �help� and someone who comes here for adultery-validation and a pat on the head�we can tell. I hope that you can turn yourself around before divorce and family-destruction becomes another sadly-avoidable reality for you.

And please don�t try to bamboozle any of us with the tired WW-line that all this �has nothing to do with OM�. Every BS, myself included, has heard that lame, don�t-want-to-look-in-the-mirror nonsense ad nauseum. God gave us all a free will. If you choose to destroy your marriage, at least do it with a shred of respect for those you are betraying�tell them the truth. Tell them that you chose to break your vows, hurt others, lie to those close to you, indulge your immoral desires, and that you are leaving to continue your adultery. At least be honest.

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My husband tried to end the affair 3 times while continuing to work with the OW. IT DOES NOT WORK!!! There will always end up being a reason you need to talk. In my case, my WH swears that they were talking as friends (she continued to email and call at work) and that the "Affair" had ended, but for me it had not ended. You cannot have contact if you expect your BS to recover.


ME: BS 31y/o H: WS 35y/o DS: 3y/o DD: 1y/o
Married: 10 years OW: co-worker
D-DAY 9/11/08 text messages EA
2ND D-DAY 5/16/09 Walked out together
OFFICIAL D-DAY 12/1/09 (confession)
(EA began 9/08 PA 12/08. PA ended 4/09 but EA continued)
NC letter 1/10
FINAL D-DAY 3/31/10 (continued phone calls and emails)
NC Email 4/10
Recovery 4/12/2010

Still his sunshine = )

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/u...904#Post2347904



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Originally Posted by lostinspace2
. I defend that doing bad things doesn't make you a bad person. I believe that hurting people isn't good, lying isn't good, and setting a bad example isn't good, but that doesn't make me a bad person
I heard this before...... It came out of the man who molested my daughter when he was throwing himself on the mercy of the courts.....THANKFULLY it didn't work.... And it's not going to work here either.....

Just knowing the tiniest piece of information I wrote above, how would YOU judge this man???

People who tout the ol' "Dont judge me" line usually only preface that when they are about to reveal something bad about themselves or when they have been caught doing bad. It is human nature to judge ALL behavior, be it good or bad. That is how we determine who we want to date, marry, be friends with, who we want to trust out children with......

It is extremely hypocritical to say, "who are you to judge me?" when YOU are judging us for judging you......

Quote
There appear to be lots of sinless people on this board because the stones have been flying fast and furiously.

Nope....no one here claimed to winless.....we all KNOW we are not. And in fact, most us have posted our sins in detail all over these boards.......it's just that for SOME of us those sins don't include adultery.....

SC, when you finally drop the defense of yourself, THAT is when you will learn what you need to fix your marriage....and not one moment before....

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Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by _Larry_
I would hope that lost would start her own thread.

Larry
*here it is*

LOST has her own thread .... in respect for Chicken, I started a thread for LOST.

Last edited by Pepperband; 04/18/10 03:29 PM.
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