Hi, everyone!

I am new to the forums (although I have printed out the EN questionnaire before and used it). My situation is kind of complex, but here goes.
My wife and I have been married almost 2 years (8/8/08), and are really happy. She had an affair back in 2006 with my best friend and things were rough until we moved out of state a year later. Things got a lot better in my mind until I found out that she and him were still contacting each other. This was before I found this website.
At the time, I wanted her to have NC with him because the thought that she was still in contact with him made me uneasy. I mentioned this to her a couple times and backed off each time out of fear that I would be "pushing her towards him".
She and I are going to counseling whenever we get the chance, but I feel myself constantly wanting to look at the phone records, IM logs, etc. My job requires me to be in front of a computer most of the time, so I try to find answers on various forums on the internet, some helpful, and some not so helpful.
One day I found myself looking at her phone records and I found she had been talking to him, but I knew that she was still talking to him, since I hadn't actually gone through with the NC with her. I was extremely distressed that day and a couple of my coworkers recommended that I go home and look at this website and His Needs, Her Needs.
I haven't purchased the book yet, but I have been looking at a lot of material on the website, including the basic concepts and most of the information on Surviving an Affair. I feel like this is really good material and have hope that this, along with suggestions from the forum posters that I've heard so many good things about, will finally get our marriage to where it should be.
I talked to one of the coworkers this morning and he reiterated that there should be NC between WW and OM. I went home for lunch and spilled it (she can tell whenever something's wrong). Now she thinks that I'm just suggesting the NC because the website "told me to" and got angry and defensive about it.
On one hand, I can kind of understand where she is coming from. I haven't actually taken any action with the previous requests for NC, so she was under the assumption that things will be better even though she still talks to him. Also, I have felt (and told her) that, even if she were to cut off all contact, I will think that she is still in contact with him.
I guess my main questions are:

1. Is it possible to get past an affair even without NC?
2. How do I explain to her why the NC is necessary?
3. How do we keep the NC, how do I know that it's working, and how does the anxiety go away after NC?

I will post more details as they become available, but any advice is welcomed and appreciated!!!

Thanks!

She cheated on you before you married and hasn't stopped?

Do you have kids?

Welcome to MB. Here are some short answers, to get you started:


No. It's not. No exceptions. If you don't believe that, just keep reading for the countless horror stories posted here where people tried to "recover" with the OP still in the picture.


Because if she refuses to stop talking to a man who threatens and interferes with her marriage, she is making it plain to YOU that she values this Other Man's company more than she values her marriage.


All of this is her job. If she refuses, you've got your answer.

Wow, she had an affair with your best friend early in the marriage, and she can't figure out why they should have no contact? She ought to be thanking her lucky stars that you didn't boot her out.

Exactly when was the marriage great?

Mulan, that was perfect.

Then why is she in contact with OM?


Here's your answer when she asks why you want NC.

What does this mean?


I can't see where she's coming from at all. Just tell her that this has to happen. Why in the world would she resist NC if it's something you want? Why in the world would she make talking to another man - especially one she slept with - more important than your wishes?

You're going to have to do some snooping to ensure NC. Read about Spy Tools on this site.

Btw, Welcome to MB. Sorry you have to be here, but you've come to the right place.

Sorry you are here AH but welcome.

Mulan is exactly right, there is no way around NC. Unfortunately, most waywards would continue contact with their OP if they could get away w/it. That's why Dr Harley has developed Plan A (shows WS a willingness to meet ENs, avoiding lovebusters) followed by Plan B if the WS refuses NC... (Don't talk to your W about any of this stuff for now!)

You need to get your Plan A(I will post some info on this) together as your WW has never actually ended her affair...it sounds like it just shifted from PA to EA once you moved out of state. She has been cake-eating, having her ENs met by both of you for 2+ yrs so (as you found out when you talked to her today) she is definitely going to resist giving OM up.

Is OM married? Do you have any kids?

No, she cheated before we were married, and although she is still in contact with him, there has been no indications that the relationship is any more than friendship. We have thought and talked about kids, but I don't want to think about starting a family until this is behind us.


I guess the reason I asked this is because I didn't know if I was going to get past this eventually without the NC, saving both me and WW the grief.


What's making this hard for me is her suggesting that being nothing more than friends with him and her promises to not allow herself to be put into a position where it would happen again would be enough to save our marriage without giving up her friend.


The reason that I haven't booted her out is that, aside from this situation, our relationship has been great. When we moved out of state for me to go to school, I put the affair behind me, at least temporarily, and things were great until I found out that she was still in contact with him. Aside from the NC, she has been very willing to do whatever it takes to save the relationship. We started going to individual weekly counseling about a month ago, but due to financial troubles, we haven't been able to go recently.


OM is not married to my knowledge.

I just got an e-mail back from her and if there are any FWH or FWW's reading the forums, I would be very interested in their thoughts. She has told me that she feels that me suggesting the NC makes her feel like I don't think she's strong enough to handle the situation. She also suggests that the open and constant communication that I recommended to her from this website will help in preventing a future A. She has mentioned to me in the past when I would bring up NC that it's not who the NC is with that makes her upset, it's me "taking away her choice to speak to a friend".
I wanted to believe that this marriage would work without the NC so that we wouldn't have to go through these rough times and conversations. She feels as if I will feel she is still talking to him even after the NC. Thinking about the future, I can't say that my feelings of anxiety and paranoia will go away whether she follows the NC or not, which is why I haven't been as "forceful" with the NC as I probably should have been.

HOLY COW! She feels that you suggesting NC makes her feel like you don't think she's strong enough to handle the situation???????????

Obviously she wasn't strong enough, she betrayed her vows to you within months of the marriage. And a double betrayal at that with your friend.

Good firm boundaries, not strength is what keeps people faithful.

And she needs to honor you as her husband by NOT having contact with the man that threatened your marriage.

Please be careful not to have any little ones.

You have made a huge mistake by marrying this woman. This is going to be your future. The problem here is not that she won't end contact, but that she has ALWAYS cheated on you.

I would implore you to get out of this marriage. Not only is she a cheater, but you do not have the ability to erect sane boundaries to protect yourself or any future children. She did not do this because of a bad marriage, but because lying and cheating is a way of life for her.

Don't have children and drag innocent children into your bad choices. Please get out now while the getting is good. It will be short term pain for long term gain. The alternative is short term pain and a LIFETIME of pain for you and your children.

This is very telling. She is justifying her CRUEL behavior and lack of boundaries by gaslighting you. Basically she is refusing to take even the first step in affair proofing your marriage. That means she doesnt care about your feelings and doesn't care if your marriage is affair proofed.

You have your answer right there. She is not marriage material, AH. Get out now while you can.

She's not. No one is. If she were really strong, she'd put up boundaries against an intrusive man who is a serious threat to her marriage.


Communication as in, you'll believe whatever she chooses to tell you? Or as in, you get to see what she is typing to her boyfriend (because that's what he is) and have that rubbed in your face?

She is negotiating to keep her boyfriend in the picture. Don't fall for it.


Friends don't intrude in your marriage. This man is no "friend". He is your WW's boyfriend. She will resist that term, but she can call him a ham sandwich if she wants and he'll still be someone that she values more than she values her husband.

Next she'll be calling you "controlling".

This will eat you alive every minute of every day untill there's nothing left of your marriage. Spouses have to put each other first. They can't be putting "friends" first. If they don't put each other first, they end up divorced because of the massive disrespect and neglect that comes from putting a "friend" first.

This is a deadly serious problem and it will destroy your marriage if she refuses to stop (and she won't stop as long as she thinks she can manipulate and bully you into going along with it.) She loves having two men to take care of her and she will massively resist giving up that arrangement. Be prepared for a very nasty fight.

ITA with believer. Please do not think of bringing any children into this.

Only an INSANE person would not feel anxiety and paranoia with such an irresponsible, cruel, untrustworthy person. Anxiety and paranoia will become your WAY OF LIFE.

THIS IS YOUR FUTURE.

I understand all the posters suggesting that I end this marriage, but what's making it difficult for me is that aside from the NC, is that she has been very open and willing to do anything to help our marriage. She has willingly given me her phone to look at texts and phone calls, as well as given me passwords to all her e-mail accounts, Facebook, etc. She has gone to counseling and is still willing to go to couples counseling with me. Reading this website and the responses to my post have opened my eyes to realize how difficult it would be for her to go through with the NC. I think that, with enough of the right "ammunition", I can convince her to follow through with the NC and end this once and for all. I feel that this website has knocked down some of these A "walls", and I guess I'm just figuring out the right way to tear down this last wall. I'm thinking about telling her that I will feel paranoid and anxious as long as he's still in the picture and she risks me breaking down gradually or finding something that may be harmless and taking it the wrong way, causing the D. If I make it sound like that's what will happen if this continues, and follow Plan B for a while, maybe she will cut it off on her own. I believe that's my only option other than D.

HUH? Stick around and read some more.

You don't need to find something harmless and take it the wrong way. Contact with her former lover is not harmless. It is disrespectful to you and the fact that she doesn't seem to realize it makes me wonder. It is common sense.

And by the way, how does it make you feel to read texts between your wife and the friend that had sex with her?

She probably doesn't realize it as much as she thinks she does...she probably also believes that I will eventually get past it on my own and that there's a chance that she will get to "keep" both of us. More reason to tell her what would happen if she keeps in contact with him as I was describing above.


Kind of a double whammy. At first, I feel sick because they are still communicating. After a while, I feel guilty for invading her privacy, even though she said it's okay.

From the new book by Dr. Harley, Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94:

"Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers."

This is your wife, she does not have a right to privacy, AH. Everything she does or says impacts your life, so you have a right to know everything she does. A spouse does not have any "privacy rights." That is silly.

It's not so much that I feel guilty specifically at looking at her privacy, but guilt in general at doing something that would, under normal circumstances, be wrong.

I would rethink that. If you are doing nothing wrong, then it is not really guilt, and your discomfort would be inappropriate.