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You don't think it's too soon for that?

Edit: That is, too early to send an email saying: "I'm not ignoring you, and I do still care about you. I'm always here to listen. How are you doing?"


I think Jim has a good point regarding contacting her... and HTLD has a very good point about not expecting anything.

The last thing that you want to do is to appear "clingy" or "needy" to her. As long as you can keep your reply along the same lines as "I love you and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to save our M." ...then I agree that it might be a good idea to respond to her last e-mail.

I would NOT send her an e-mail out of the blue telling her how much you love her... only reply to the one that she sent you.

Semper Fi,

RIF


Me, BS

Her, Forgiven

Married Dec 86

Multiple A's that ended '90

Rebuilding In Faith since then...

Currently deployed to Iraq, but TEXAS is Home!
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Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
A lot of people are going to blow sunshine up your butt and tell you that there is hope for your marriage. In my years of posting on here, I've seen many more marriages fail than succeed. There are a few who can do it, but the vast majority that I've witnessed end up divorced.

Most of those that fail are because NC is never established between the affair partners. Considering his WW and OM are both military officers and the OM has a wife and kids, there is a much better chance at NC than most have here on the board. There are plenty of recovered relationships including myself.

Let's put it this way, I have rarely seen a woman divorce her husband after the affair is over, provided the woman doesn't start up another affair. Most women want somewhere to land before they divorce, and absent of that, they rarely do. Of course, this does not take into account abuse or their husband cheating, but that is not the case here. Just two weeks ago, his WW was still talking to him like they were going to be together once he got back, so she was still planning on that as long as Gerka did not interfere with her affair.

Sure, Gerka should expect nothing right now, but I don't want him to be hopeless either.

Last edited by jmwc95; 04/23/10 09:14 AM.

Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
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There are a few who can do it, but the vast majority that I've witnessed end up divorced.


IMO, Gerk has what it takes to get it done.

The A will end in his case, he will go home and I believe get another chance w/ his W.

He has the tools to create a better M thanks to MB and he has the inner strength and self confidence to make it all come together.


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I do think you should send her a light email. I wouldn't say "I'm not ignoring you" because she'll just use that to pick a fight. I also wouldn't tell her you love her, because that would just make her angry.

I very much like the idea of a short email mentioning something funny that happened or something you saw that you just wanted to share with her.

She'll probably ignore it or send you a scathing reply, but that's okay. You'll have taken away her ability to say "He's ignoring me" to herself.

Continue to send a fun, short email every few days.

What are her top ENs? I'm guessing conversation is one. What are her others?

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Ok, I've come up with:
"I do still care about you and how you're doing. I'm always here to listen whenever you have something to say.

I had a pretty good day off today, slept in until nearly 11, went to lunch (had a cheeseburger and a pile of tomatoes wink ) watched the Simpsons for a while and hit the gym for an ab work out. Then steak, lobster & grilled asparagus for dinner. "

GO or NO GO on that email? She LOVES tomatoes, that's why I mentioned it.


Affection, conversation, honest & openness are her top 3 ENs.

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I agree w/ the others about sending a light/fun e-mail.

Your W told you how much pursuing her meant to her when you didn't insist she come to you so you could say good-bye to her.

Now she told you she didn't want you to ignore her.

Listen to her!

But, definitely keep it light.


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Originally Posted by Gerkaguards
Ok, I've come up with:
"I do still care about you and how you're doing. I'm always here to listen whenever you have something to say.

I had a pretty good day off today, slept in until nearly 11, went to lunch (had a cheeseburger and a pile of tomatoes wink ) watched the Simpsons for a while and hit the gym for an ab work out. Then steak, lobster & grilled asparagus for dinner. "

GO or NO GO on that email? She LOVES tomatoes, that's why I mentioned it.


Affection, conversation, honest & openness are her top 3 ENs.

That's fine. I would send out these emails about once every other day. Maybe (probably) she'll eventually send one back about how she's doing.

Man, they are feeding you well over there. Steak AND lobster? Sign me up.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
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Steak, lobster, and grilled asparagus?
Is life that rough over there or are you pulling our collective leg?

GO on the email wink

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Shot out on the email. We'll see if I get anything back.

Yeah Fridays is steak & either lobster or crab legs with grilled asparagus. It's not particularly good steak, but the seafood is usually pretty decent. It's enough to make people look forward to it anyway.

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I do still care about you and how you're doing. I'm always here to listen whenever you have something to say.

I had a pretty good day off today, slept in until nearly 11, went to lunch (had a cheeseburger and a pile of tomatoes wink ) watched the Simpsons for a while and hit the gym for an ab work out. Then steak, lobster & grilled asparagus for dinner.

Just so you are prepared, here will be her response:

"If you cared about me you would have never betrayed me by telling my CO. I'm never telling you anything again. You'll just use it against me. I hope you choked on your steak and lobster. Just sign the divorce papers I sent you."

Again, this will be better than no response at all, and even if she doesn't respond to this one, she eventually will.

Last edited by jmwc95; 04/23/10 10:01 AM.

Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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Good job, Gerk!

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Originally Posted by jmwc95
Except, since she mentioned you are ignoring her, I would maybe try to reach out to her a little bit. She's a very insecure person and I think she's afraid that YOU don't want anything to do with HER anymore. Let her gently know that is not the case. Just say something like, "I'm not ignoring you, I just though you wouldn't want to talk to me. I very much would like to hear from you. How are you doing?" Then just let her completely go off on you without you responding. You don't want to completely ignore her, you just want to ignore her provocations. At this point I would slowly, subtly try and engage her and get her to talk to you.

I strongly, strongly agree.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by Gerkaguards
You don't think it's too soon for that?

Edit: That is, too early to send an email saying: "I'm not ignoring you, and I do still care about you. I'm always here to listen. How are you doing?"

Actually, I think it should have been done sooner. Whenever I get an email from my wife saying she's feeling lonely or ignored, I try to respond ASAP.

I think I might even include an apology for not replying earlier.

"Sorry, I was just so taken aback that you thought I was ignoring you that I wasn't sure what to say. I'm definitely not ignoring you, and ..." and then use those other suggestions.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
A lot of people are going to blow sunshine up your butt and tell you that there is hope for your marriage.

A lot of those people are people who have worked right through this.

Quote
In my years of posting on here

Can you give us other IDs you've posted under so we can read your story? It appears you've been posting four five months.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I'm sorry to be the Debbie Downer of this thread, but everything Gerk has posted about his marriage and his wife indicates that this is a woman that has big issues that aren't going to change once NC is established.

If OM disappears forever, you're still left with a woman that has massive, unresolved psych issues, huge self esteem problems, a craving for male attention, immaturity, unrealistic expectations of marriage, a broken career, and then the sloppy seconds of another man.

Gerk, I hope for a miracle, but the odds are high that you will end up divorced, but that such an outcome may ultimately the best thing that could possibly happen to you.

I could be wrong and she could suddenly see the light, go to NC, start deep therapy, and grow up massively, but that is highly unlikely.

She might be marriage material in 10 years or so, once she's been burned a few times.

You have much life to live in the meantime.

I know you wish to save your marriage and I respect that. Keep doing the thigns you're being advised to do. Just keep your expectations very low.

Understand that I'm not rooting for failure or am saying, "Rah! Rah! Divorce!"

This situation sucks to go through, especially when deployed, but getting rid of this broken woman and finding someone deserving of your love and attention once you've healed could be the greatest thing that could happen to you.

Seriously, it would be great to see a miracle, but women with your WW's personality seldom grow up and develop maturity unless they hit rock bottom first. She strikes me as one of those women that are so needy that they must have a man in their life, regardless of who it is, in order for them to feel happy.

Women that needy have massive issues.

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Originally Posted by markos
Can you give us other IDs you've posted under so we can read your story? It appears you've been posting four five months.

Nope. Wish I could, but I can't.

Those who know my writing style, know who I am some some I speak to offline know who I was. Circumstances don't let me say more.

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Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Your W told you how much pursuing her meant to her when you didn't insist she come to you so you could say good-bye to her.

Now she told you she didn't want you to ignore her.

Bingo.

And let me make an observation: you have the kind of wife who, for now, is going to require you to figure out what she wants yourself and do that. Your job is to know more about her emotional needs than she does. When you get statements like these, count yourself lucky, and act on them! (But don't act without thinking. wink )


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

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Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
Originally Posted by markos
Can you give us other IDs you've posted under so we can read your story? It appears you've been posting four five months.

Nope. Wish I could, but I can't.

Those who know my writing style, know who I am some some I speak to offline know who I was. Circumstances don't let me say more.

Understood.

Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
I'm sorry to be the Debbie Downer of this thread, but everything Gerk has posted about his marriage and his wife indicates that this is a woman that has big issues that aren't going to change once NC is established.

I don't think you know jack about it, and if you continue to try to discourage someone who is doing so wonderfully, my plan is to report you to the moderators.

Work out your own issues and demons without troubling others.

Last edited by markos; 04/23/10 11:05 AM.

If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
I'm sorry to be the Debbie Downer of this thread, but everything Gerk has posted about his marriage and his wife indicates that this is a woman that has big issues that aren't going to change once NC is established.

If OM disappears forever, you're still left with a woman that has massive, unresolved psych issues, huge self esteem problems, a craving for male attention, immaturity, unrealistic expectations of marriage, a broken career, and then the sloppy seconds of another man.

Gerk, I hope for a miracle, but the odds are high that you will end up divorced, but that such an outcome may ultimately the best thing that could possibly happen to you.

I could be wrong and she could suddenly see the light, go to NC, start deep therapy, and grow up massively, but that is highly unlikely.

She might be marriage material in 10 years or so, once she's been burned a few times.

You have much life to live in the meantime.

I know you wish to save your marriage and I respect that. Keep doing the thigns you're being advised to do. Just keep your expectations very low.

Understand that I'm not rooting for failure or am saying, "Rah! Rah! Divorce!"

This situation sucks to go through, especially when deployed, but getting rid of this broken woman and finding someone deserving of your love and attention once you've healed could be the greatest thing that could happen to you.

Seriously, it would be great to see a miracle, but women with your WW's personality seldom grow up and develop maturity unless they hit rock bottom first. She strikes me as one of those women that are so needy that they must have a man in their life, regardless of who it is, in order for them to feel happy.

Women that needy have massive issues.

Gerka heard you. We don't need to keep dwelling on this any longer. He's made his decision. We all know your thoughts on the matter. Let's focus on helping Gerka work his plan instead of telling him it won't work. He very well may come to that conclusion on his own in the future, but it needs to be him that comes to that conclusion, not you. Working a good plan A isn't hurting anyone at this moment. Trust me, I understand where you are coming from, and I share a lot of the same sentiment, but it is not up to us to decide whether or not his marriage is worth saving. Only he knows his WW and his relationship. Gerka has shown a lot of strength and maturity beyond his years, so I'm going to trust he knows what he is doing on this one.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
If OM disappears forever, you're still left with a woman that has massive, unresolved psych issues, huge self esteem problems, a craving for male attention, immaturity, unrealistic expectations of marriage, a broken career, and then the sloppy seconds of another man.

A reminder of what Marriage Builders actually says about these issues, since it is different from what helpthelostdads seems to be saying:

Quote
Now for your second question: Is it possible for a damaged person to be a good wife?

My experience, having counseled hundreds who have experienced childhood abuse, has led me to the conclusion that childhood abuse does not damage a person. While it's a hotly debatable position, it's what I strongly believe.

So I begin my answer with the assumption that the experiences of your childhood are far less likely to affect your ability to meet your husband's needs (or have him meet yours) than you suspect. Any sensitivities you have developed as a result of abuse have not "ruined" you because they can be accommodated by your future husband. It's all part of learning how to be emotionally connected to someone else. My Policy of Joint Agreement is a terrific learning aid in helping couples adjust to all sorts of sensitivities.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5019_qa.html

Quote
An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2356918#Post2356918

A couple of other related articles:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8115_prob.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5013_qa.html

A reminder, from the top of this page:
Quote
Sometimes you may hear alternative opinions that conflict with Dr. Harley's Ten Basic Concepts. These are often raised by those who have not solved their own marital problems, but still feel they are qualified to advise others. When this happens you can expect some members to explain why their approach won't work, and why Marriage Builders� offers a better solution. There are many who are offended when that happens, but please keep in mind that the ultimate purpose of this Forum is to discuss and learn Marriage Builders� concepts.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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