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jmwc95 #2361251 04/24/10 04:42 PM
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I would avoid most of the relationship talk. When she says NW5 shouldn't see his mother in an unhappy marriage, you should say, I agree, I will do everything it takes to make sure that we build a happy marriage going forward.


YES YES YES. That is great reverse fog babble.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
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Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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Ok, I'm starting to get it...slowly...

I have realized that I am too focused on the A. Yes, it is there and yes I know that there is nothing I can do to stop it. I have been focused on letting WW know the ramifications of it...Reality. That is not my job.

I must only do the things that would add to WW's LB as it must be in the red. I was reading somewhere that only I can make her fall back in love with me. Pointing out reality certainly does not do that. I am at an advantage here, WW still lives with me. I must use this time left to only make LB deposits.

She has given me clues. I'm not happy (in fact, completly unhappy), I don't love you. Yes, this may be fog but that is how she feels right now.

So today I sent her flowers: "Just thinking of you. I'm glad you had a good weekend, I hope your day and the rest of the week are as good."

She know's how I feel about our M, she also know's why I feel that way. She hasn't responded to either of those letter's which is what I was prepared for.

I haven't been able to confirm or deny NC w/OM yet. THe part of me that believes her has hope that we can rebuild before she moves out. I realize that this is only a dream.

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I think that I have turned a corner so to speak. I told myself yesterday that I forgive WW. I realized that I hadn't even thought of that yet. Once I said to myself "I forgive you", I felt peace. I feel liberated actually. I just hope it's not part of the roller coaster ride.

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Originally Posted By: now_what
I think that I have turned a corner so to speak. I told myself yesterday that I forgive WW. I realized that I hadn't even thought of that yet. Once I said to myself "I forgive you", I felt peace. I feel liberated actually. I just hope it's not part of the roller coaster ride.

In what I hope is not a thread-jack, I would like to say congratulations, and that I think this is a MAJOR STEP.

I too, found it within my heart to forgive my WW. Partly because I have come to learn that she has a personality disorder that she is not responsible for having, and that she cannot help herself for her skewed view of the world.

But I also had a great nugget given to me the other day in church. The pastor spoke of the story of Jacob and Esau (scholars will probably need to correct me). After all the problems between the two, there came a time when forgiveness was given.

But the two did not heal the rift between them, for although forgiveness had been given and received, too much had transpired between them for them to ever have a healthy relationship again.

For my peace, the forgiveness has been a great weight lifted. But I do not want my wayward wife to ever return.


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
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Thanks Fred. I really feel better about the whole thing.

Question: Where were you in your sitch when you gave forgivness? Did it raise your hopes up only to have them crash down? I know at this point forgivness is for me as WW has no care how I feel. I almost feel like I am setting myself up.

How can one forgive, knowing the act that hurt you is still happening? Is it recognizing the addiction? Is it love for the WW? Is it for my own sanity? Did I give forgivness too early?

Reguardless, I do feel the weight off my chest. I no longer look at WW and feel resentment. I see a poor soul that is crying for help. Problem is, she is looking for the easy way to fix what ails her.

I have offered her a guidline for true romantic love and she tore it up in my face. I taped it back up and she threw it away. I told WW how I still have love for her and have offered her happiness, admiration, and forgivness. I have asked her for forgivness. Her response was filing for a D. I should get the papers any day now.

When WW moves out, it is time to set my little wayward dove free to go home. Where is home? I don't know, but I will leave a candle in the window. The house will dark otherwise.

I know the deck is stacked against me, but this is not for her.

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So she did file for a D. I don't have the papers yet but I believe her, thanks GPS. She went there the day after I revealed to her family. I'm not upset or surprised, more disappointed than anything. I had an appointment to meet w/my lawyer last week but he canceled and rescheduled for tomorrow. I can't wait to talk about Legal Seperation and temp injunction for NW5.

She really played it off like she had no clue what she was doing. I really don't think she has a plan at all. She hasn't thought of a budget, no worries because we just got our tax return right?

I will continue Plan A until she moves out. Once that happens it's on to B. I really don't know how much love I have left for her. Forgiving her has not only lifted me but I think it has gotten me ready for the next step. I realize that once she is gone...she'll be gone. Take that either way. I don't think I'll have much gumption to put up much of a fight at that point.

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NW- I'm glad to see your personal growth in this mess. It seems as if you are realizing that you are stronger than you thought and now know that you will be OK however this works out.

As far as her filing, I wouldn't be so sure until you get served. She may have simply had a consultation with the lawyer. My WW threatened divorce for a couple months before pulling the trigger and actually filing.

In my eyes, the filing makes little difference as these things take a lot of time. It ain't over until the ink is dry. It may actually help your WW to see what the reality of a divorce will mean to her and your son.

Try to keep your focus on what it is that you want. If it is a healthy marriage, then keep working towards that end (Plan A). You will know when it's time for Plan B. If not, many here will tell you!!


-SOL
_SOL #2362957 04/27/10 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted By: SickofLimbo
In my eyes, the filing makes little difference as these things take a lot of time. It ain't over until the ink is dry. It may actually help your WW to see what the reality of a divorce will mean to her and your son.


I agree, I knew this was probably a neccesay step towards recovery. The next step will be WW moving out and having OM meet all her ENs. After that who knows.

I was a little shocked last night when WW said that in the D paperwork that I would get to see NW5 every other weekend and once a week. That's 8 days a month. WW said that is standard for judges. I told her that a judge will sign off on what we agree to and what is in the best interest of NW5.. I told her that I can't talk about this right now. She went upstairs. Later I went back up and asked her if I could get her some milk and cookies. She declined.

I am still in Plan A and I find it easier to give all now after forgivness. Every morning I tell her how cute her outfit is or how pretty she looks. Last night I got NW5 on board for Mothers day. He's really excited to make mommy a card with a picture of her holding a cake!! HAHAHA....I told him it's a very special day for mommies, NW: Like a birthday or Christmas? NW: Haha, yes...

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Quote:
The next step will be WW moving out and having OM meet all her ENs. After that who knows.



Hey NW - If/when this happens, OM will have LOTS of opportunites to start LB-ing... once reality hits them both in the face as they play "house" together...

Semper Fi,

RIF


Me, BS

Her, Forgiven

Married Dec 86

Multiple A's that ended '90

Rebuilding In Faith since then...

Currently deployed to Iraq, but TEXAS is Home!
RIF #2363117 04/27/10 10:49 AM
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Part of me says don't discuss custody options with your WW. The other part of me says that whenever she brings up how great it will be to have the kids every other weekend and one night a week that you say, "Sure, that would be good for you to have. I will not settle for that or anything less than 50/50."

Say it calmly, without arguing and do it very matter of fact.

As far as judges go, there has been a real shift in the last few years regarding fathers. It no longer is automatic for the woman to get primary.

DO NOT fall into the trap of thinking that such a settlement is a good deal and the best you can get. Fathers are getting 50/50 in increasing amounts. I have a 60/40 split which I can live with. I get my kids the entire summer and I get ever weekend per month except the second to last one. That's been good for me.

She imagines in her head that you guys will be best buds once you divorce. Don't believe it and don't feed into her delusion. She says that you guys can be friends, then let her know that won't be the case. It's very simple, you can be married, or you won't be friends.

It's very tough to do, but any talk about custody should be kept very matter of fact and unemotional. I'm telling you this as someone who drove his blood pressure to crazy levels worrying about this issue. I look back now and realize that I should have been much calmer and understanding that family courts try to be fair if you're a good guy.

Keep your nose clean, stay calm, and stay involved. Document the heck out of everything such as times you're caring for your son and she isn't. This isn't so much to smear her as much as it is documentation that you're more than capable of taking care of your son without her.

I know this all sucks. But rest assured that you'll be ok.

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[/quote]Hey NW - If/when this happens, OM will have LOTS of opportunites to start LB-ing... once reality hits them both in the face as they play "house" together...

Semper Fi,

RIF [/quote]

Hey RIF, Yes, I believe that you are spot on. We'll just have to wait and see how long it takes for her LB to be drained. Then.........?


I would like to say RIF, that I see the advice that you are giving Gerka and I am very much humbled by your selfless service to a fellow soldier. For that I commend you....OOOO-RAHH..

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Originally Posted By: helpthelostdads
Part of me says don't discuss custody options with your WW. The other part of me says that whenever she brings up how great it will be to have the kids every other weekend and one night a week that you say, "Sure, that would be good for you to have. I will not settle for that or anything less than 50/50."


I think I agree with you. I'm a little torn about custody talk.
Pros?:
She knows that I will not settle for ANYTHING less than 50/50 and I will not roll over.
The reality of of being away from NW5 for extended period may have a profound effect.
The reality of the cost of lawyer fees, and establishing a new household may be effective as well. Her income is less than mine, teachers don't make much nowadays. Plus IL has cut billions of $$ from our education budget (this one may be a stretch as she feels secure in her job because of tenure). My Warchest is bigger, I think, to drag it out a little.

Cons?:
LB LB LB LB LB LB LB LB LB LB LB LB LB LB LB LB..etc...

I will certanly prepare myself and would have any/all conversations in a calm cool manner, breif, to the point, and confident. I'm the one with a rational plan after all.

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I could tell you nightmare stories about my own custody battle. I realize now, looking back, that I could have spent a very small fraction of what I actually spent if I had simply had more confidence.

I use to get all upset about settlement offers given to me by her attorney. It was frustrating because the offers were barely any better than what I already had, which was basically nothing. I was also literally going broke because my CS was so high I had no money left to have a life of my own or even treat the kids to anything.

Rather than going 20 rounds with her attorney, I simply could have said, "No thanks. I think I'll do better with the judge."

DO NOT settle for her arrangement. Odds are high that if you're living near each other that you can get a 50/50 arrangement.

PSUB has 50/50 and he and his WXW live 90 minutes apart.

The standard for behavior for men is much higher than for women. Women get away with a lot more bad behavior. Document, but don't expect it to be used against her much.

The secret to winning 50/50 (which is really the best you can expect) is to:

1. Live nearby. Stay within 15 minutes of each other, preferably in the same school district.
2. Give the appearance of being a calm, cool, warm and cuddly guy.
3. Learn to do things that may not have been in your realm before. I've learned to cook and I decorate cakes for my kids.
4. Get as much family to show up for your hearings as possible. I had uncles and cousins come from everywhere to show support for me. I had a full bird colonel in full uniform show up to testify on my behalf as a character witness as my supervisor (I'm a contractor that worked for him).
5. You can't let the other lawyer get to you.

These are all bridges you have yet to cross and it will hopefully not come to this. BUT I share this with you because I felt this desperation to save the marriage because of mis-information about when I'd be able to see my kids. I had the old ideas that I wouldn't get to see them much and they would be out of my life.

I couldn't have been more wrong. Knowing then what I know now, I may have been less inclined to be so desperate to save things and would have had more confidence in the idea that it wasn't going to be the end of the world and that I'd get to see my kids plenty. Sure, it's not the ideal where you see them daily and it certainly isn't what you imagined your life would be like, but it is what it is. As long as your son knows he will see you regularly, then you'll be ok and he'll be ok.

What worried me the most was who she might end up bringing into their lives and on this I lucked out. She met a guy just like me in terms of personality and who treats the kids well. I don't worry about him. In fact, I don't want them to break up because I don't want to worry about someone new.

My basic point to you is this:

Have faith that even if your marriage fails that you will be ok and will see your son plenty. You will always be his dad no matter what.

Put certain clauses in any settlement you make with her or request them from the judge that:

1. There will be no cohabitation with members of the opposite sex that aren't family members.
2. Neither party can move more than 20 minutes away from the other. Breach of that breaks the current order and a new custody arrangment will have to be made.

I wish I had done those in my situation.

Have faith. Be prepared for Plan B if necessary. Consult a lawyer just to be prepared. Have him draft a 50/50 arrangement that is to be followed on a temporary basis. This often becomes the status quo.

Don't believe anything she says in terms of custody. Most people don't understand family law at all and there is a ton of mis-information.

Keep the faith. Take care of you.

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HTLD is right on, don't expect WW to have your best interests at heart. Remember, Illinois is an Alienation of Affection state,
just in case you need to throw a wrench into her best laid plans.
OM will have to spend $$ to defend against it. Don't forget Lawyer UP


Marriages don't fail, people do. (And I don't recall who said it)
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Hey NW,

You're getting some EXCELLENT advice from HTLD! Hang in there and keep showing NW5 what a great dad he has!


HTLD - I'm glad that you are able to share your experinces here to help NW prepare for his upcoming battles!


Semper Fi,

RIF

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Originally Posted By: Going_Forward
HTLD is right on, don't expect WW to have your best interests at heart. Remember, Illinois is an Alienation of Affection state,
just in case you need to throw a wrench into her best laid plans.
OM will have to spend $$ to defend against it. Don't forget Lawyer UP


GF beat me to it. You can sue OM for alienation of affection and get him ordered to have NC w/ your WW until you divorce goes through.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
jmwc95 #2363225 04/27/10 12:34 PM
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Hi NW.

You sound like you are in a great place at the moment and you are getting some great advice and help from the vets.

How did you go on the weekend? Any luck finding out who the OM is? Is he married?

Do you still plan to expose to his BS?

jmwc95 #2363230 04/27/10 12:46 PM
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I missed a few things. I didn't realize that she had already filed.

This is what's going to happen next. You'll be brought before the judge for a scheduling conference. While you wait for your time in the courtroom, he/she will push your attorneys to hammer out an agreement.

Let yours know right up front that you will not waste any time entertaining anything less than 50/50. What's going to happen is that her attorney and your attorney will go off into a room or a corner and negotiate. Expect her attorney to polish the terd over and over. The first time, you'll get the polished turd of an offer. Then will come a polished turd with a bow on top. Then will come a polished turn, bow on top, and an offer to have you pay less CS.

Don't let this frustrate you. I use to get irate at the offers. Draw your line in the sand. 50/50. No less.

Let me offer this arrangment for you to chew on:

1. Monday and Tuesday with one parent. Wednesday/Thursday with the other. You then alternate weekends.

Split all holidays evenly, alternating each year. Think of the holidays that aren't holidays, such as Halloween. Alternate those.

I recommend splitting the summer full time 50/50 so that you can travel with your son someplace on vacation or to have extended family do stuff with him.

So you'll have a scheduling conference. Once nothing is hammered out, the judge will bring you both in. He will look at you guys and schedule a status conference, mediation, a hearing for a temporary order, and then a merits trial.

Expect those to be spaced out months apart. This process will drag on forever.

Make sure that your temporary orders are 50/50. Temporary orders have a habit of becoming permanent ones.

They will push you to settle. Stick to your guns. 50/50. She will either become desperate to end things and finally give in, or she will continue to stick to her guns to fight.

My ex stuck to her guns and gave no quarter. She basically came off as the unreasonable one with a lawyer that looked out to destroy me rather than come to a reasonable settlement.

Understand that child support is usually calculated by overnights. Having your son for a weeknight will not count as an overnight. This could mean thousands.

I'm not joking when I tell you that I was going flat broke and I made over $100k a year because my CS was $3k a month. Throw in taxes and rent and I kept very little for anything else.

Also, be careful with how lawyers craft agreements. They have a way of wording things which make it so that their client isn't really bound to future agreements.

I had a clause in the first settlement that said we would negotiate 50/50 when my daughter turned 7. It was worded in such a way that it was a worthless thing to have in there. If you have such a clause, make sure it's definitive as in:

ORDERED: 50/50 custody will be in full effect upon DS5's 7th birthday.

That's basic guidance on any such future arrangement you make.

Get books on father's rights.

There is a very good one called "The Co-parenting Survival Guide" and another one called "Mom's House, Dad's House".

Finally, file an AOA lawsuit against OM. You're likely not going to get anywhere with it, but do it anyways just to make OM's life a pain. It's amazing how often OM scurry away when facing legal papers and legal battles.

But understand one thing: Custody fights are all out war. They are draining, unpredictable, and expensive. If you can settle for something you can live with, then go for it.

I currently get my kids all but one weekend a month from Friday night through Monday morning and I get all summer. It's not 50/50, but I get to see my kids often and get to have a life of my own. I also have enough money to live.

You'll be ok no matter what.

My advice has just saved you thousands in legal fees. Trust me on this.

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Rather than going 20 rounds with her attorney, I simply could have said, "No thanks. I think I'll do better with the judge."


Excellent advice!


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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You're getting some great divorce advice (if you end up needing it) but pay attention to the MB advice as well. It's not over till the Judge signs on the dotted line. There's still time to fight for your marriage.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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