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PrincessMeggy,

That's how I feel. It seems like advice has jumped straight to divorce. I don't think NW has even exposed to the OM's wife yet! His WW may not even move out if the affair collapses around her. I'm not a vet, so I'm careful not to give advice, but what do you think?

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Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Papers have already been filed.

He can implement MB and be the good guy while his attorney can be the bad guy and the fighter.

My advice is on the fight that is coming his way. It's coming. Papers are filed and the ball is rolling.

MB can still be followed, but there are papers at play.

You can still contact OMW if you haven't yet. That should be done.

Forgive me if I didn't catch this, but are you still in the service? How much time left in your committment? When will you PCS next?

If you can, consider transferring to a reserve or guard unit. This will help in terms of your schedule and will demonstrate a desire to provide stability for your kids.

I left after 11 years of service and don't regret it because I did it to be near my kids.

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HTLD,
Thank you so much for sharing your insight and knowledge! I wish I would have seen the AOA stuff before I talked w/my lawyer today. I really like that idea. Sure it'll probably go nowhere but its nice to be able to throw some lead downrange from time to time.

I think that the legal advice is part of the MB priciples of Plan A and B. the AOA would apply to A and the custody stuff will certanly have a huge effect in B. I will not let NW5 get in the middle of this but I will NOT settle for anything less than 50/50. I will certanly let WW know that I will fight tooth and nail and spend any ammount for this. Can you put a price on fatherhood?

I told my lawyer my plan and he is on board. He says that he plays the role of bad cop very well. I'm kind of excited to get served. I really can't wait to see what grounds she filled on. I'm not going to get upset over any lawyer threats or the like. I know I got a good one and he is ready to do my bidding...for a fee of course. Can you put a price on saving your marriage or peace of mind?

I still will continue to meet her ENs and avoid LBing...Thanks Mark. Again I find this comes alot easier now and doesn't feel forced after forgivness. SERENITY NOW!!!! haha

AS for OMWoman, well after the FB screwup and the dead-ends that followed I was feeling at a loss and hopeles on this front. I went back and re-read the info from the PI and I may have found a tasty nugget. We'll see. I would just love to serve the AOA and expose to OMWoman at the same time. Shot over....

I am still serving in the National Guard. My retirement date is 2022, I have 11 years total service with 4 mobilizations/deployments under my belt. I would guess that I would have 3 or 4 more before I hang up the boots. As for PCSing, well, there are alot of factors in play but I think the biggest is if I get promoted. I would more than likley have to PCS in that event, and I can decline it if I need to.. Until then I am happy where I am at, good job, good unit, good town, and most importantly, good co-workers.

Thank you all for your insight today! Thank you for reading my thread and I appreciate all the point of views and help. I'll take all that I can get...

NW

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Make sure there is a clause in any divorce agreement or court order that will have the custody agreement return in full force and effect when you return from a deployment.

Try to move into a position where your chances of deployment are lowered, at least for the purposes of a custody fight.

Once you get the 50/50, if it comes to that, you can move back to your original position.

You want as little used against you as possible. Have a plan in place for if you get deployed, where you volunteer to pay CS while you're gone, but that 50/50 is set when you return.

These are just some thoughts for you. Run it by your lawyer first.

I think Plan A and Plan B can be followed, even in the middle of a big divorce/custody fight. One of our MB hall of famers, Mortarman, fought a super nasty custody fight. His WW came to her senses when she realized all she was losing. They are in R now and are doing well, as far as I know.

The challenge in R is for the BS. BS's spend a lot of mental energy absorbed in trying to put things back together. Once that happens, however (if it happens), the BS is often faced with the reality that was tucked away in the back of his/her mind.

Do I truly want this person in my life? Can I overcome my feelings of disgust towards her? Will she do it again? Do I want to live with doubt in my mind?

Lots of couples have battled through that and end up having a great relationship and marriage afterwards. But it's a big mountain to climb when trying to put it all back together again.

I never did get to recover my marriage, but it isn't something I regret. Others with that experience can weigh in on that front.

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Originally Posted By: helpthelostdads
I think Plan A and Plan B can be followed, even in the middle of a big divorce/custody fight. One of our MB hall of famers, Mortarman, fought a super nasty custody fight. His WW came to her senses when she realized all she was losing. They are in R now and are doing well, as far as I know.


Yup...Mortarman fought and WON custody, not once, but TWICE. They had a year long false recovery wherein his wife kinda tried to recover but then went into solidifying a better case for custody, but when she filed AGAIN the judge saw right through it and reaffirmed, I believe, a 4 to 3 custody split in favor of Mortarman.

Of course, he had the advantage that he had LEFT active duty and went to a desk job somewhere in Washington. I don't know much about custody cases and military personnnel.

I do know you CAN Plan A while fighting for custody. You just have to hide behind your big ole mean attorneys. The ATTORNEY is the bad guy...not you. Also fighting for custody and fighting for you marriage are congruent to the extent that you appear much more strongly when you don't allow yourself to be push around (underneath girls like tough guys and they like to be fought for) plus, if you win and they lose, they don't like the guilt of having to lose time with their children and they MAY just pause and think. Mortarman's wife put on the brakes and just WOKE UP...literally days before the final divorce decree was going to be entered. The added bonus of fighting is you'll hopefully win or get the best deal FOR YOU should the divorce go through.

Just compartmentalize the battles in your head. They are separate and CONGRUENT battles.

Mr. W

p.s.- 14thegipper I believe did a good job on this too. At some points along the way he'd sympathize with his wife about how mean his attorney was and even act like he was going to have a talk with his attorney about being nicer.


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Originally Posted By: MrWondering
I do know you CAN Plan A while fighting for custody. You just have to hide behind your big ole mean attorneys. The ATTORNEY is the bad guy...not you. Also fighting for custody and fighting for you marriage are congruent to the extent that you appear much more strongly when you don't allow yourself to be push around (underneath girls like tough guys and they like to be fought for) plus, if you win and they lose, they don't like the guilt of having to lose time with their children and they MAY just pause and think. Mortarman's wife put on the brakes and just WOKE UP...literally days before the final divorce decree was going to be entered. The added bonus of fighting is you'll hopefully win or get the best deal FOR YOU should the divorce go through.

Just compartmentalize the battles in your head. They are separate and CONGRUENT battles.

Mr. W

p.s.- 14thegipper I believe did a good job on this too. At some points along the way he'd sympathize with his wife about how mean his attorney was and even act like he was going to have a talk with his attorney about being nicer.


Hiding behind my attorney is the only option I see at this point. So far I have been really careful not to talk about it at all. Not hard really, After I put NW5 to bed, she goes straight to the bedroom. She has no interest in interaction between us at all. I do still check on her though.

"They are separate and CONGRUENT battles."

Thank you, Mr. W, this makes alot of sense. What does CONGRUENT mean? smile

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I know this is MB's, but the advice from HTLD's is very useful.

I've had ONE conversation with my wayward wife about what a post-divorce life would look like.

She thought we could agree to terms ourselves at a low cost, I could live around the corner, help with afterschool care and such, and be her on-call nanny.

I let her know that I would never accept anything less than 50/50, would want the house, and we would NOT be friends.

Haven't talked about it since and don't ever plan to. Any further discussion will be left to the lawyers.

I am keeping a journal of daily activity including her time away from the family and drinking habits.

Every day that I'm not traveling for work I 1) Wake the boys and get them breakfast, 2) Make them lunch, 3) Take them to school, 4) Make and feed them dinner, 5) Take to soccer practice, 6) Always there at bedtime.

Some days she helps them with homework and reads with them before bed. That's it, other that taking them to Target or Gamestop for more toys.

schtoop #2364774 04/29/10 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: schtoop
I am keeping a journal of daily activity including her time away from the family and drinking habits.

Every day that I'm not traveling for work I 1) Wake the boys and get them breakfast, 2) Make them lunch, 3) Take them to school, 4) Make and feed them dinner, 5) Take to soccer practice, 6) Always there at bedtime.

Some days she helps them with homework and reads with them before bed. That's it, other that taking them to Target or Gamestop for more toys.


She is going to flip when she realizes she isn't going to automatically get custody. Maybe that will be enough to shake her out of the fog?


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
schtoop #2364776 04/29/10 10:21 AM
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schtoop,
Thanks for your insight. I have been trying to read up on your thread and have seen alot of similarities in our WWs. My WW doesn't go out much at all but their attitudes seems very similar.

We haven't talked much lately about how the D is going to go or post D. I'm waiting to get served w/papers before I go there. My lawyer is going to look like an a$$, I'm just in it for the ride. I'm really curious how she's going to react.

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Ok,
So the info the PI gave me has kind of fizzled. I do have addresses of known relatives, current and previous addresses, persons living at those addresses, etc....

I think my plan to expose to OM family/friends will have to be a mass mailing, addressed to Familiy and Friends of OM. No return address but I will put my email in the letter in case they want to contact me.

What do you guys think?

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Originally Posted By: now_what
Ok,
So the info the PI gave me has kind of fizzled. I do have addresses of known relatives, current and previous addresses, persons living at those addresses, etc....

I think my plan to expose to OM family/friends will have to be a mass mailing, addressed to Familiy and Friends of OM. No return address but I will put my email in the letter in case they want to contact me.

What do you guys think?


Sounds like a plan to me.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
jmwc95 #2365743 04/30/10 06:02 PM
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Ok, so the custody and lawyer talk came up last night, I think I did pretty good. When we were talking about lawyer stuff I made sure that she knew that since her lawyer told her she would get full custody, that mine was going to ask for the same. I tried to make him out as a pitbull. I also told her that I would not settle for anything less than 50/50, like we had talked about earlier.

She got very upset about me asking for full custody and was verbally abusive. I reamined calm the whole time. I told her that my lawyer was just doing the same thing as her's. We are still in agreement w/50/50 and no CS.

She settled down a bit and got upset again when I said that my lawyer said she couldn't leave w/NW5 and other household goods w/o anything in writing. She stormed off upstairs to bed. 30 min later I'm on the cpu in the middle of posting what just happened and she walked in to the room.

WW: What are you doing? What!? Are you emailing people about something?

NW: No, this is none of your business.

WW: What are you doing?

NW: I'm trying to learn and understand how to become a better
husband and father. I want to save our marriage and make you happy.

WW: Why can't you just give it up? (She has asked me this several times)

NW: Ok, let me try and tell you exactly why I can't just "give up". 5yrs from now when NW5 looks at me and asks "daddy, why aren't you and mommy married?" I can tell him that I tried everything that I could to save our marriage, and it just didn't work out. I know what it's like to be 5yrs old and all you want is a goodnight hug from you father. As much as my mother loved me, I still had a hole in my heart from my father not being there. I know what's it's like to grow up in a broken home. That is why I can't just "give up".

WW: I know you had a tough childhood, but it's just not going to work. Why can't you understand this?

NW: Ok, if you really must know. It's because of your A. When you told me that you wanted a D, you were activly involved w/OM. Since then you have said that you ended it. I would like to belive that. Truth is, that no counseling will do us any good until break all contact w/OM. I belive that you love him, you have told me that you have feelings for him. Those feeling will not go away until you break all contact. I'm not mad at you for that. I understand. I have forgiven you. I do not intend to lecture, I am only telling you what I feel. If you didn't have an A and we went through counseling and it wasn't working, then I would walk away. Until then, I will do what ever it takes to make you happy and build a new wonderful marriage with you, as long as there is still love for you in my heart.

After that we talked about our days and had some small talk. I talked about one of our friends (he works in my bldg now and is hillarious!). I started talking about some of the funny/crazy things we used to do. We talked about our days for about 5 min and went to bed.

I feel that I did good as far as letting her know that I wouldn't budge on NW5, and when we talked about other things I made sure that I added loving remarks. I remained calm the whole time and I tried not to make SD and DJ. I didn't really want to talk about it but I felt she really wanted to, and I have been preparing for this conversation for a week now.

Last edited by now_what; 04/30/10 06:04 PM.
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Stick to your guns and don't let her bully you about custody. Don't be surprised if she tries to pull the, "let's make this amicable and perhaps we can start anew someday."

My ex did that. It's a ploy and a trick. "Amicable" means "do everything I ask."

Don't fall for it.

It's a trick.

She doesn't think of it that way, but it is.

You did well.

Stick to your guns on your son. Good job. Wish I had been as strong.

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NW- I think you did pretty good. You represented yourself honestly and your not getting angry showed confidence and strength. Plus, the stuff you said about why you can't give up was good. I'm sure it was heartfelt and had to come accross that way. I would still not bring it up unless she does in the future. Hang in there.


-SOL
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So I'm listening to the VAR from today and WW went to a Walgreens over her lunch. It's odd because it sounds like she's crying in the car. When she gets back in the car after work it sounds like she distressfuly mutters under her breath "I have issues", and then another girl voice says "Wow". It's differant voice and they go somewhere afterwards. She stops somewhere on the way and I think she drops the person off and stays for 10 min. I don't know what to make of this. She didn't act much differantly this evening.

I called the walgreens and other stores close by and asked if OM worked there, but no dice.

I'm super tired now, I have to work this weekend and have to be up at 0515....yuck...

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WW,
Why try to recover our M? Is it worth saving? Would we be able to move past all this? Can I be the man of your dreams? Can you be the woman of my dreams? I have asked myself this many times. So the question still stands, why try to recover our M? This is why I believe it worth trying.

-The A could be the best thing that has happened to us. You have stated that you do not love me and you have always thought twice about our M. I have not been the greatest H; you have said that I am a great person and Father. With all the doubt and confusion that you have and little effort from me in the past, imagine how wonderful a new M can be between us if we were to fully commit to it.

-The best way to heal from all this pain is recovery. All the old feelings of pain, remorse, guilt, shame will be replaced by love, adoration, pride, joy and happiness. Your true love is here, standing in front of you with arms wide open.

-What is best for NW5? I do not want to replace your time w/him with another woman who he has not met. I want each of us to ALWAYS be there for NW5 whenever he needs us, not every other weekend. I would love to raise NW5 in a loving home where his mother and father are deeply in love with each other. We can have that love; there is nothing that we cant overcome together.

You are a beautiful woman who stops time when you walk into a room. I remember a time when you walked into a crowded room and time stopped. All eyes were on you, you were stunning. I felt so small and insignificant at that moment. Then you looked at me and smiled and I felt as if I owned the world. I was the luckiest man on earth who had just won the lottery! I will never forget that moment, and I look forward to making many more of them.

I will not just give up and walk away from our M. For better or for worse means just that. I see the potential we have, full of meaningful everlasting love. I will not stop trying to save our M as long as there is love in my heart for you. For better or worse, I am fully committed to being the best husband and father for you, NW5, and myself.

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I have allowed myself to get pretty angry, I know why I'm angry and I can't seem to shake it. So, I'm going to vent here, I always seem to feel better after I write my feelings down.

Why does it have to be like this? Why is it that I constantly get the cold shoulder/ignored. Here's the reality. My wife is seeing another man, next weekend she is signing a lease. She wants a divorce to pursue/justify her relationship with this man. She is taking my son away from me at least half of the time. And here I am doing everything to show her love and all I get in return is absolutly nothing.....no emotion, none. My only chance to save my marriage is show my wife love and I have to do this in light of her affair, her wanting a divorce, and all the lying and deception. Knowing the chances of saving this marriage are bad doesn't help. Once she leaves, is there even a chance? I really hate this.

I need to get this out of my system before I go home. My hope is dwindling

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How long have you been in Plan A, NW? The longer you stay the more depleted your Love Bank gets. I read a dangerously low level in your post.

Are you ready for Plan B? Perhaps drafting a Plan B letter will help your mood, and also help you put some perspective into this mess.

Your WW is playing it "by the numbers." But you are not without resources. You have the entire MB forum behind you -- we are your "silent army" to help you kill this affair and work on recovering your marriage!


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
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I didn't start applying the MB pricipals until I found this site a month ago. However, I feel that I have been doing all the work for the past two years. She has been distant for a while, I would say three years.

I haven't shared this but in Feb 08 I got my 2nd DUI and I haven't driven a car since. Just prior to the DUI we started MC together. We went to two sessions prior to the DUI, no real results. I got the DUI and on our third session the MC told us that he wouldn't see us again until I resolved the issues usually associated with multi-DUI offenders.

In Apr 08 I started attending AA (hence two ages in my sig block), going several times a week. AA gave me imediate results. I attended AA meetings several times a week and got alot out of it. I can say that WW felt I was very controlling, like I was always checking on her....funny to me now, but AA really helped me put things into perspective and AA to me is not about staying sober, it's about living.

I deployed to Afghan in Sep 08, sitch w/WW was hard for me to take. Our primary means of communication was email. She would respond to 1 out of every 4 emails I would send. This was very hard for me and eventually I learned to get by. I had to D WW in my mind to keep my sanity.

I returned from Afghan in Oct 09. Things seemed to go well for about a month or so. Then she was distant again. For the past two years I would try and try to make her happy only to get the cold shoulder time after time. Eventually I would withdrawl, until I would start feeling guilty, so the cycle would start again.

Throughout the past two years I have been led to believe that our M problems have been all my fault. Looking back on this fact I feel alot of resentment to WW, this is not god for me. I have gotten alot better about identifying my triggers, and forgivness has helped.

So I guess that I can't say how long I've been in plan A. It's been two years since I felt like have been doing all the lifting but I really didn't start applying MB pricipals until last month. I am learning how to apply them better everyday, with some bad days here and there.

If it weren't for NW5 this would be alot easier for me. When I'm in a funk I just look at his piture and see his beatiful smile. He is an innocent bystandard in this and it breaks my heart to think of how this could end up affecting him. How do you expose to appropriatly a 5 year old, or do you, or what do you tell him?

Time to go home, I feel better I think, thanks for the support.

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Yes I am ready for Plan B.

Last night I caught WW going through my bags that I take to work. I keep my PI info, OM info and the like in there.

NW: I thought that you never would snoop through my things? (She said this when I was caught in her purse)
WW: I haven't, this was the first time.
NW: Ok, what do you want to know? (I don't care anymore, her snooping tells me she is still covering for OM.)
WW: Nothing, I don't really care. (I was ready to tell her anything)

We had another talk, and I did some LB, DJ and the like. I just didn't care. I'm really ready for her to leave now. I can't go on like this. I'm tired of the lies and deception and it's driving me crazy. I just want her to go and do whatever. I can't look at her anymore and have pleasant thoughts.

I feel beaten. I feel like she has finnally gotten me to see our M in her eyes. But that's ok, I need my sanity. I slept on this last night and I woke up with the same feelings. When I saw her this morning, I felt more resentment than anything. I really don't want to iteract w/her anymore. Her view of the world right now really irritates me.

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