Delta, you are doing a great job. I am so sorry to read about that horrible video. I hope you and H consider burning that horrible, repulsive tape.

If your family then decides they won't attend without her, well, then, you know they are not of a mind to help your marriage and you will be unable to do much else than be NC with all of them.

If my family decides they won't attend what?

A wedding?

I think they'll leave that up to us as to whether we'll want to attend. Seems like the right approach for that type of event.

As far as holidays go, the invitation rotation seems like the best approach.

DDD,

You're blessed to have such a good mom.

About six weeks ago, my mom in her typical bullchip fashion, ran her mouth at a family event after I left. She supposedly blurted out, "what did we ever do to RMJ's H, that he doesn't come around?"

Uh, duh, beyotch, you darn well know why he doesn't come around.

And two weeks later, when there was another family get together, my OWsis all high and mighty told me that it was my dying dad who had said it. She also had the cojones to tell me that I needed to let my H come around family.

Funny thing is, my dad was peeved last week when I saw him and asked him about it. He told me it was my mom who had initiated the conversation six weeks ago. I don't know what is up and I don't really care. I figure my mom's just trying to manipulate having all the family together. I don't have time for it. maybe she has dementia...

As far as family get togethers go, my older kids in their mid to late teens, don't like to be around my OWsis. They hate her attitude and often refuse to go to family events (like if my other sis comes into town for a visit). (Unfortunately, like I mentioned before, OWsis lives near my parents.) My kids don't get a break from her.

It was difficult 2 years ago when they told me they would "watch" their Aunt and father when we were at family gatherings. That was another reason we decided NC was best. It's just a horrible position for kids... to feel awkward and uncomfortable at family gatherings because of dad and aunt's choices.

Your children are the beginning of the journey. It really takes the family unit to heal for the M to heal when there are young people in the house. I suppose your DH is going to have much work to do in healing his relationship with his children from this.

I'm sorry to hear about the video too. Sooo painful to think about. I know I have pics. They just sit in the box because while I don't want the reminder of what happened, I surely don't want to destroy pictures with my little children in them. Thankfully, there weren't any videos with *her* and with my kids, at least not from us.

DDD, maybe you can have someone edit the video to DVD so you have the children's footage, but the ugly aspects get removed. kwim?

I spoke to Steve Harley today. H and I have been doing split sessions with him the past couple times where each of us speak to him separately for about a half hour.

He asked me if I feel H is a changed man.

hmmm. No, not really. I feel he's the same loving, caring and respectful man as I thought he was 6 months ago, 5 years ago, all along. Okay, maybe a bit more so now, but a changed man? No.

He's obviously a very changed man from 9 years ago when he was in his A. That's where our situation is a little different than some of the other As on here ... my H's A was so long ago.

Do I feel that he understands his betrayal on a deeper level now, that he knows how badly screwed up for the past 9 years for allowing us to have contact with sisterskankarella? Absolutely. He was upset about it again last night. "What in the hell was I thinking?"

Indeed. What in the hell were you thinking, dear husband?

So, yes, he's learning a lot from MB and from Steve ... and from me. He's more aware of what he did (A and post A), why he did it, all the many mistakes he made along the way, what he needs to do now moving forward to protect himself better and to protect me better. He'll keep learning.

Steve said the biggest enemy in recovery is complacency, pulling back from moving forward together and changing together. Right now, we're each other's top priority. In six months from now, we still need to be.

He said faithfulness is a product of the lifestyle that you live. That despite the important lessons we'll learn through this process, our human nature is still vulnerable to temptation and weakness. And temptation doesn't usually smack you in the face. We allow it to creep in subtly, in a way that doesn't register until we're neck deep in it.

We need to keep our guard up.

Little details matter.

We have to have a full understanding of our emotional needs, what we're drawn and attracted to so that we don't allow someone other than our spouse to subtly meet those needs.

Living that guarded lifestyle is where trust comes from.

Right now, I'm in a better place emotionally than I've been in for two months, but there will be bumps in the road.

There are ebbs and flows.

Steve said I'll need to work on protecting H from myself when I'm hurt and angry, when my injury that is healing gets bumped.

I should tell him when I'm hurting so we can work through my pain together, but I should also work on never being disrepectful - no yelling or rudeness.

There you have it ... my update for the day.

Needing to vent about OW/sisterskankarella ...

Previously in this thread I mentioned her other affairs.

2-3 weeks ago I contacted her one long-term AP who is a single guy (her son's hockey coach) to inform him of her sexual A with my H.

I did this for a couple reasons, one of which was to find out if she ever mentioned to him the A she had with my husband (he said she didn't but spoke "fondly" of him), another was to find out whether anything was still going on between her and this guy.

He told me she sexted him earlier this year. The story is that she "did not have sexual relations with this man" a la the Clinton scandal (everything but intercourse, yeah, whatever). I told my BIL this information, he swept it under the rug and apparently continues to believe her lies that it was only an EA for 2+ years. He also believes her lies that she hasn't continued to contact this guy in the past 6 months plus.

Irritating, but it's not my problem what lies the BIL wants to believe.

I have to admit that I also liked hearing from this guy that he thinks she's a relentless liar, manipulator, stalker.

Secondly, I contacted two women who are wives of men who I've learned in the past few weeks are rumored to have had relationships with sisterskankarella. I informed these women of her A with my H and her A with her son's hockey coach. Both knew about the A with hockey coach, both thanked me for contacting them and both told me women have discussed through the years the need to keep their husbands away from her. One of them said "she lavished (H) with a creepy amount of attention and phone calls" but she believed him when he swore that nothing physical happened between them. Yeah, whatever.

Sisterskankarella and BIL are now proceeding with the narrative to my other sisters that I'm a total lunatic who will stop at nothing to destroy her and that I need to stop harassing her like this.

She's been claiming she's suicidal over the past several weeks, and my oldest sister (who's way too emotionally invested in this saga) called on me last night to stop the hate and harassment. That she just doesn't understand it.

I told her I did nothing wrong with this exposure, that she needs to mind her own business and that I do not need her approval or disapproval.

I've told all sisters that I don't want to discuss this matter any more with any of them (the other two don't want to, either) and that I only want to discuss other topics from now on.

Did I do anything wrong by contacting those three people?

It sure doesn't feel like it.

No, you are fine. Sometimes family members just want to avoid conflict. You exposing makes things more complicated for them because they feel they have to be their for your sister who is just acting like a drama queen.

You are AWESOME!! You have done nothing wrong. Screwing married men is "hate and harassment;" exposing that skanky is not. Everyone should know! It is not your fault your sister is embarassed by her skankho behavior. Everyone needs to know so they can a) protect their marriages and b) get STD testing.

Tell your older sister that you are doing a public service to warn others so their marriages are not also destroyed by your skank sister.

Good job!!

Right on, Melody!

DDD, you are awesome. Tell the truth! It is what it is. I agree that you are doing a public service by letting the word out. People in your sister's circles need to know what a home wrecker she is. She's no friend of M and she certainly is no friend of children.

Tell your sisters to get their heads outta their butts. Your OW/sis seems to need some help...what is it with her going after all these OM that have connections to the children in her life? Her son's hockey coach? The father of her niece and nephew? puke!

My gawd, you must want to shake some sense into her.

I don't think she's too emotionally invested. I think she's just emotionally invested in the wrong side!

I think you're right!

She keeps saying "I've got your back."

Well, listening to skankarella's sob stories about how low she's feeling and agreeing with how awful I'm treating her is not having my back.

I guess I just need to just stop talking to this sister.

Hi, everyone. Haven't posted in a while, but I've been reading various threads every day. It's so helpful to read about how others are doing along this journey.

Things have been decent for H and I. We are doing OK on our own - still counseling with Steve Harley, currently working on our ENs and LBs. I went away with H one night last week, and that's always nice to have lots of undivided attention with one another.

He's so in love with me and treats me so well ... yet that's one of the hardest parts for me. I look back and know he was so in love with me that summer, too. Steve Harley said that's pretty common. sigh! It makes me sad.

There have been some family issues the past couple weeks. I don't want to rehash them here because I'm so totally exhausted from them, but in a nutshell, sisterskankarella (gosh, I love that term) was caught in a couple lies she told about my H and I. A couple issues were hard for me because I questioned H's honesty, but in the end, she admitted to lying about them to other sisters, so her credibility was shot just a little more with them.

All of that interferes with healing between H and I, and I hate that. I have to just let my involvement go. Even if she makes something else up in the future, I have to trust that my family will question her honesty (they say they always will) and that the truth will come to light eventually without me getting worked up about it and taking my frustration and anger out on H ... even though his actions 9 years ago are the root of this anguish.

Easier said than done.

I've been having a really tough time getting past visualizing H in the act with her. Does anyone have specific tips for for getting over this?

When I visualize these acts, I feel numb and I hardly want to talk to him. I'm just pretty silent. I know that's totally normal, but I know it's not good for us.

Steve told me yesterday, "Remember: you're not mad and disgusted at H as he is now; you're mad and disgusted at the H from 2001."

Yeah, but the current H is the only H I see.

I'm going to bump my own thread just to highlight this question I posted above:

I've been having a really tough time getting past visualizing H in the act with her. Does anyone have specific tips for for getting over this?

DDD-Here is a thread by Marks on memories. Hope this helps.

Mark's Managing Memory thread.

This is the crap I deal with. Thank your lucky stars that your OW/OM isn't in your family.

I got a call from one of my sisters last night asking me if "something happened" yesterday because sisterskankarella sent out an email to my family. She forwarded it to me:

---

Subject: the good fight

Hey,

I have done all I can do. No matter what, I am a wh*r* and a liar. I will not continue with this abuse. You are officially "off the hook" with me. Love you all, but enough is enough.

Love,
sisterskankarella

---

I could just envision several = not all - siblings running to her rescue, so I offered up this alternative that I sent in an email:

---

i'm writing this because i care about (sisterskankarella).

her "off the hook" translation = call me, call me, call me ... tell me i'm not really that bad and allow me point fingers to help me take away my pain.

this is simply another sympathy ploy from an attention seeker. she has suffered no abuse. being held accountable for your actions is not abuse.

how about we choose to not run to her this time but rather allow her to work out her lying and other issues with her trained professional?

a simple response of "i love you and always will but you need to work these issues out with your therapist and your therapist alone" would do her wonders. i know first hand because i've given her my sympathy (some of the time) in response to her issues for years, and sadly i didn't do her any favors. i didn't truly help her.

instead, the sympathy she has gotten through the years in response to her poor behavior has made things a lot worse.

if we really love her, we will direct her to her therapist. every time.

if you allow her to "vent," she will talk about me or someone else and say how much we've wronged her and how she is such a victim instead of focusing on her own actions and her own responsibilities and her own self improvement. it will not help her in the long run.

i care enough to want her to get the real help she needs this time and not fall back on others like a crutch like she has in the past. i hope you feel the same.

---

OK, so I exaggerated about the "i care enough" part. I just can't stand it that a couple of them still fall for her crap.

Nothing I can do, nothing I can do, nothing I can do.

I have to keep repeating this to myself until it finally sinks in.

Didn't I JUST say that I have to let my involvement go?

What is wrong with me?

SCREEEEEEEEEEEAM!!!!!!!!!!

I see no reason for that email to have been forwarded to you. YOu can't, obviously, control other family members' relationship with OW.

This is where the NC part is really challenging for you. Did SH give you any advice about the degree to which you should keep apprised of your sister through family? What are your expectations and desires about NC in terms of stuff like this, and how does your family feel about it?

No, SH really hasn't.

If I ask questions, they answer. It's my fault. I shouldn't ask the questions. That's how I've found out about a couple lies she's told about me. I asked for the email to be forwarded to me. My fault.

I know this. It is my responsibility to not inquire.

FWIW, I'd probably be really bad at not letting my curiosity get the better of me, too. I might have to disengage from everyone for a while.

Such a tough situation - I feel for you.

I've been trying really, really hard to focus on me and H only for the past week rather than of allowing any discussions or inquiries from me to family members about what OW's been saying about me/us.

I want to move on from that completely because it offers me no advantage and only brings me down. NC really needs to mean NC(conversation) about her with others, including family.

Common sense stuff, I guess, that'll take me to where I need to go, but it's been a tough one for me to overcome with my sisters.

H and I spoke with Steve Harley this morning. I said that I've been reading on the forums and throughout MB about no longer discussing A. He reiterated that since I have all my questions answered to my satisfaction, H and I should no longer discuss A and instead move on from here, making forward progress as a couple.

Seems weird to just never discuss it again, but he asked "for what purpose?" and "to what advantage?" and I don't really have valid answers. He suggested me telling H when I'm feeling down so that H can help me think/talk about another subject.

I keep getting stuck on "how could H do this to me?" and SH keeps warning me against that faulty thinking ... that this was not something H did deliberately and intentionally to me to hurt me. That he was thinking/acting selfishly because he lacked proper boundaries when he allowed ENs to be met by someone other than his wife. H dismissed me in the equation because he was "under the influence."

OK, so I've gone through this with SH a couple other times, and it all makes logical sense, and then I go back to "how could H do this to me?" Something I'll need to work on ...

We're going to a wedding on Saturday (H's family). I'm looking forward to it, but SH warned me that it might be rough for me to sit through wedding vows, etc.