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Thanks inrecovery:

Can someone give me the link to the thread that you mentioned for wayward's lists of EP. I couldn't find it when I performed a search.

Thanks!

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This is from SouthernPilgrim's thread. She just started posting here too, and she is also dealing with Porn Addiction in her marriage. You may want to view her thread, reach out to each other. It's helpful to have others who have or are walking in our shoes a bit.

Originally Posted by Drucilla
CAN SOMEONE FIND THE LINK TO EP's?
I sure can't frown

I did find a thread, these were TST's EP's. You might try righting up a list of your own.

Extraordinary Precautions:

a) I am responsible to protect my wife at all times.
b) I will give full access of all my business records to my wife.
c) I will agree to give all passwords, account codes business and personal to my wife.
d) I will not put myself in an advice giver role with another woman, unless my wife is present and has given her prior approval.
e) I will defer to my wife as the advice giver when it involves another woman, unless she specifically calls on me.
f) I will not spend any time with another woman that my wife is not present.
g) I will allow only my wife to hear my problems or concerns.
h) I will not share my infirmities with another woman.
i) I will allow my wife to be my exclusive care giver, unless she specifically calls on someone else to help her.
j) I will defer to my wife in all matters of charity and outreach, with her being the sole point of contact when caring for women.
k) I will not teach martial arts to another woman without my wife being present and having enthusiastic agreement about such training in advance.
l) I will openly share my daily business schedule with my wife.
m) At any time she requests, I will trade cell phones with my wife for the time she deems necessary.
n) I will allow only men to provide essential care, such as Doctors appointments, hair cuts, massages, individual counseling, etc.
o) I will always defer to my wife regarding any outside activity and will agree to eliminate any activity she feels is interfering in our relationship or the relationships of our children.
p) I will not travel out of town for business or personal reasons without the company of my wife.

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Originally Posted by Vibrissa
Heya reg - I thought I'd chime in a few thoughts.

Originally Posted by registest
he wrote in counseling that his #1 need is for me to feel confidence that he loves me and is devoted to me.

This is not an appropriate EN in the strict MB sense of the term. You will only know that he loves you if he shows you love, and fills your LB. He is wanting YOU to be responsible for the balance of his LB and it just doesn't work that way. He is trashing your love every time he uses porn or rejects you sexually in favor of porn. Every time he has a sexual experience that doesn't include you, you love him less. That is exactly how Love Busters work. He wants to Love Bust you with out draining your Love Bank - he wants you to love him despite acting in a way that proves his disregard and love for you - and placing the onus on you to maintain your love for him. Sorry that's cake eating. It doesn't work that way.

Sounds like he has an emotional need for Admiration. The problem is women have trouble admiring a man who is depleting his balance in their Love Bank. If he will learn to meet her emotional needs well, regularly, dependably, she will probably naturally admire him for that!

The Admiration chapter in His Needs, Her Needs has more information about this scenario.


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Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Nice insight Markos!

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Markos: I agree with you on the admiration. I thought about admiration being a top EN for him recently. I know this has to be an area that I have not been falling through with because I feel so much resentment and have been for a long time. And I had started forcing myself to do things to feels his needs for Admiration. But it is hard for me to keep up.

Do you all think this is something that I should work on doing more even though we are starting to work on ruling out the sexual addiction issue.

I am trying to put the pieces together in regards to all of the MB concepts. I did read the admiration chapter in the His Needs, Her Needs book. I will go back and re-read again. Also, are there any threads on here that i can get some tips from. I am an examples type person. When I can see others putting these things into action, it helps me define what I need to put into action.

Thanks!

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As far as admiration goes, I would try to admire him for the things that are admirable. In other words, if he is a good provider, helps around the house, gives you compliments, has a talent, then talking about these is good. I would not try to put any kind of positive spin on things he does that are damaging. I have fallen into that trap before - trying so hard to be a cheerleader I cheered for things I really didn't feel cheerful about. I at one point made a list of things that I could unabashadly appreciate about DH and tried to mention one or more every day if I could. Then if DH broached a subject that might be negative (in your H's case, the porn use) I could be very honest with him, knowing I had also built him up.

It is a hard tightrope to walk sometimes, wanting to be positive or meet EN's without ignoring or condoning things that MUST change.

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With regard to admiration (which is probably my H's top EN too), I've found that it is helpful to make a running "gratitude list" of all the things about him that I'm thankful for. Like Luri said, I don't stretch it. But if I'm open and willing to drop the resentment for even a short while I'm able to come up with plenty of things. And then the admiration comes more easily.

You also ask, "Do you all think this is something that I should work on doing more even though we are starting to work on ruling out the sexual addiction issue."

Here is my take on that. MB provides a roadmap for the basic responsibilities of marriage: Care (through meeting EN), Protection (through avoiding LB), Time (through 15-20 hours of Undivided Attention), Honesty (through the Policy of Radical Honesty), and Unity (through the Policy of Joint Agreement). I did not take a vow that said I promise to do these things AS LONG AS THEY ARE DONE FOR ME. I made the vow only with an understanding and expectation that they be done. Because my vow was an unconditional vow, I will follow the roadmap to the best of my ability until such time as God directs me otherwise. I'm not doing it as much for him as I am for me. It is possible that in time I will be doing it for him, but that is not really in my control, because that would involve me feeling Romantic Love, which is something that is his to create by providing care, protection, time, honesty and unity.

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I'm not sure if I missed it or not but has the husband said what his frequency in watching porn is? I read a lot on these boards where a husband is looking at porn and he's suddenly labeled as having a sexual addiction. I did read that he had porn sites visited on his computer. But the porn site might have been visited a month earlier and not since or he hits a site every other week or etc. Then the next thing I often read is that since the husband has been watching porn, he prob. wants some off-the-wall, unethical, crazy, etc sex and cannot fathom having sex without some deviant act by his wife. I�m not trying to minimize the feelings of the spouse towards porn. I�m just wondering if the husband actually might have an addiction or occasionally watches porn.

I'm not saying that watching porn is something his wife doesn't want him doing. That's a different issue. Some wives care if their husband watches porn, some don't. Maybe he does have a porn addiction; maybe he does have a sex addiction. I don't know. He might be weeping and saying he does because he thinks that's what his wife wants to hear.

Has the OP asked why he likes to watch porn? How often he watches porn? Is there something missing in the sex that he's seeing in the porn that he likes? And is this asked in a nonjudgmental manner?


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I think watching porn, at any level, affects a relationship, even if in subtle ways. Sex may drop off due to porn watching. Watching porn may also affect the way a man approaches or wants sex and these actions turn the wife off from sex. Why? Because what is depicted in porn is not what women want in a sexual relationship but rather what men think women want, or how men think women should behave. Porn is a world of male fantasy.

I have felt there were some odd things about my H's approach to sex from the very earliest days of our relationship. I now know he has been using porn for most of his life, and the use just grows and grows as access becomes easier. Now I believe that there is a relationship between his 'ways of sex' and porn.

He approaches me for sex in ways that I don't like and then tells me I am cold when I don't respond. His approach is to stick his hands in my pants (as an example). Unlike his porn chicks, I don't turn on instantly, I'm not "Hot and Ready", so guess what, that means something is wrong with me in his world, I'm cold and frigid. But guess what he sees in porn, women who are always "Hot and Ready" so this is his norm.

He has never been able to orgasm based on feeling alone. He can only orgasm if he can see what is happening (use your imagination). This has always bothered me but I let it go for many, many years. Now I think this is porn based. He masturbates watching people have some form of intercourse and needs that visual stimulation to orgasm. What this means to me is that I am nothing more than a masturbatory tool. This also means that we never orgasm together.

My point, porn affects relationships whether or not there is an addiction. Ending porn use should not be a requirement only if addiction is involved because at any level of use, the relationship is affected. The issue is not just addiction, but the use of porn. Porn is not mutual SF and this is what SF is meant to be, mutual. SF is not just about one partner.

Not meant to be a T/J, just arguments for ending porn use, period.

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The way I would define addiction is this:

An activity that I want to stop, but can't; or an activity I want to stop, and can, but not for any extended length of time; or an activity that I don't want to stop but that interferes with my ability to live a healthy life.

Kind of a broad definition.

My husband says he has an addiction to porn. He has labelled himself that way, not me. I frankly have no idea. I do know that he is not able to stop on his own, and when he has tried, that he becomes a miserable SOB. I do know that his looking at porn (I think it's at least once a day) seems to be a substitute for real emotional and spiritual intimacy, even though we do have regular sexual intimacy. His problem is his problem; I am honored that he was honest with me, but I leave it up to him to get help. I stay out of it. I do not let it be a justification for my not doing my part of MB. However, I also know that if after practicing MB for quite some time I do not see any imporvement in the areas of spiritual and emotional intimacy from him, then I may change course. It's in the future, I really can't know beyond today smile

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Originally Posted by lostlovinfeeling
I think watching porn, at any level, affects a relationship, even if in subtle ways. Sex may drop off due to porn watching. Watching porn may also affect the way a man approaches or wants sex and these actions turn the wife off from sex. Why? Because what is depicted in porn is not what women want in a sexual relationship but rather what men think women want, or how men think women should behave. Porn is a world of male fantasy.

I have felt there were some odd things about my H's approach to sex from the very earliest days of our relationship. I now know he has been using porn for most of his life, and the use just grows and grows as access becomes easier. Now I believe that there is a relationship between his 'ways of sex' and porn.

He approaches me for sex in ways that I don't like and then tells me I am cold when I don't respond. His approach is to stick his hands in my pants (as an example). Unlike his porn chicks, I don't turn on instantly, I'm not "Hot and Ready", so guess what, that means something is wrong with me in his world, I'm cold and frigid. But guess what he sees in porn, women who are always "Hot and Ready" so this is his norm.

He has never been able to orgasm based on feeling alone. He can only orgasm if he can see what is happening (use your imagination). This has always bothered me but I let it go for many, many years. Now I think this is porn based. He masturbates watching people have some form of intercourse and needs that visual stimulation to orgasm. What this means to me is that I am nothing more than a masturbatory tool. This also means that we never orgasm together.

My point, porn affects relationships whether or not there is an addiction. Ending porn use should not be a requirement only if addiction is involved because at any level of use, the relationship is affected. The issue is not just addiction, but the use of porn. Porn is not mutual SF and this is what SF is meant to be, mutual. SF is not just about one partner.

Not meant to be a T/J, just arguments for ending porn use, period.

I agree with you that porn is a world of fantasy. However, it�s not just a male fantasy. There are quite a few women viewing porn, not just men. While my wife doesn�t watch porn by herself, on occasion she will suggest we watch it together. And this is not too uncommon. So, sure, if the porn is an issue, then by all means cut it off. However, not everyone that watches porn brings this into their relationship/marriage.

And while some people might get wrapped up into watching porn and let it impact their relationship, I would assume most men view porn for the purpose of a quick release and nothing else. I have quite a few male friends and having joked and discussed this, we all realize that what we see in porn is exactly that-porn and in now way is indicative of the way real sex or love making happens. For *most* guys, porn becomes the �I haven�t had sex in a few days, I need a quick release� outlet.

It seems your husband has unrealistic expectations of what turns you on. My wife would be the same way if I suddenly stuck my hands down her pants out of the blue. I know that it would get me no where unless she just happened to be in the mood for quickee. However, she is very clear and assertive when this is her need. And while most men (and most men that watch porn) would prob. like their wife to get that turned on on occasion that quickly, most of us enjoy the pursuing and seducing of our wife and the long lasting making out and leading up to sex.

When you say that he can only orgasm from seeing what is going on, does this mean he has to watch other people having sex while having sex with you to orgasm or does this mean he likes to see the act of sex? I ask this because men to be visual in nature and like to watch. As an example, I don�t like full on lights in the bedroom but I do like candle light or some soft light that casts a very low glow.

Porn is usually one of those things that people either like or they are against. Some women (and I would assume men) think that watching porn is akin to having an affair or being disrespectful. Some women do not care if their men watch porn. My wife has no idea why women get offended when men watch porn. On the other side of the coin, we have a couple friend whose wife would practically leave him if she caught him watching porn because she views it as he�s cheating on her in his mind and will surely cheat on her physically too eventually. But they have a lot of other issues too.

I look at porn like gambling, watching TV, playing video games, drinking, etc. It can be taken overboard and negatively impact a persons life. However, it doesn�t always and to most people it�s an every once in awhile thing.

Last edited by kilted_thrower; 05/19/10 08:17 AM.

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Thanks for the thoughts around the porn. kilted_thrower: from what I can tell, and I don't know the extent because he hasn't admitted to me or our counselor anything. So here is what I know. I don't think he looks at porn movies on the internet often. What I am seeing is, he is on a daily basis visiting website and dating website, asking women to send him their nude pictures. He had gotten so bad before I confronted him that he would log onto the computer infront of me (our computer is in the living room) and when I happen to glance over at him he has on the computer screen pictures from women. This is when I said enough was enough and confronted him.

Pretty much, every day in the evenings he gets on the computer. So there was no family time, and no alone time for us because he was on the computer.

Then on the weekends he would get on the computer pretty much all day while my daughter and I were outside having family time. For almost 3 years, he shut me and his child out of his life. And during these 3 years, he never had sex. He never approached me for sex and when I approached him he turned me down.

So, I am not saying that he has an addiction. I only asked that he talk to the therapist to screen him because something is going on. If it is not an addiction, then at least that is ruled out.

So bascially no it is not a sporadic porn use. He was looking at nude pictures and communicating with women on dating sites on a daily basis when he was at home. And I determine this when I started checking his emails because he never deleted anything. For the past years, all of the emails he recieved from women, the pictures and the dating sites were kept in his email in and outbox.


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Then I would say he has a problem. It's definately a problem when he's neglecting his family and turning down sex with his wife due to porn and wanting to see other women naked.


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Also, let me add a little more information. During our first two weeks of counseling about 3 months ago, the counselor asked us to make sure that we have each other passwords and can access our email accounts at any time. My husband says we already have access to email accounts and that I could view it anytime I wanted to. He said he just had the one.

One day, he asked me if I would go onto this website and rate a book that he had posted to it. He does writing in is spare time as a hobby. I went on this website. But on our computer it took me to his home page on the website instead of the link to where I could vote on the book. When I got on the website through the link he gave me, it took me to his outbox where he had sent some girl on that emailed him about do you want to see my pictures.........an email address that is attached to our email account but he hasn't used in the past.

I checked the email address (i had the password because both of our email accounts have the same password). When I checked it, I saw recent and past activities of a lot of porn sites that he was registered on, emails that he recently sent to other women requesting pictures and websites where he voted on pictures labeld hot women. And the emails and the web votes on the nude pictures were done in the past few days.


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Okay, I'll admit up front I have problems with the idea that porn is okay, however, even if I didn't, there is a VAST difference between "admiring" the occasional stranger on a porn site and contacting actual women asking for pictures and such. To me, that is a whole other problem. I'm sorry about this, reg.

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My husband is attending counseling today alone. The think I mentioned in an earlier post that the therapist wanted to meet with me separately also. But, I told the therapist I didn't want to meet with him alone. I asked both my husband and the therapist to focus on my husband and see if there is an addiction problem first because we have went down that path in our marriage counseling.

I realize that addiction is a strong word and it isn't something that I can say for sure it is. I asked my husband to tell the therapist everything and not half truths but the whole truth even if it is shameful because all I want is for him to receive the best help if there is an addiciton problem.

You guys rock! Just telling my story here and hearing others stories and how each of you are dealing with them has been a source of strength for me.

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Originally Posted by lurioosi2
there is a VAST difference between "admiring" the occasional stranger on a porn site and contacting actual women asking for pictures and such. To me, that is a whole other problem. I'm sorry about this, reg.

Absolutely. Contacting another woman is completely crossing what is acceptible and not.


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Contacting a strange woman who posts pictures of herself on the Internet is way out of bounds.

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Originally Posted by registest
My I told the therapist I didn't want to meet with him alone.

Why?

You are part of the problem AND Process. Meeting separately could be beneficial, in that things which you bring up might be easier for him to talk about without you being there. It also helps to keep the 'other' from going off on tangents and lying, because they know that the spouse will be in in a couple of days, and can set the record straight.

I think separate counseling could be good, IMO.

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So you say he is contacting women on the net and sharing naked pictures, etc? Does he also go "live" and do online live sex where both masturbate together online? There are sites for this which is sickening to me.

If your husband is doing this, it is at the level of "affairs" or worse.

Nothing I can say about "how to get more sex in marriage" will help since this is a deeper and bigger problem.

How can he do this when he is MARRIED? Have you asked him to quit this, all of this?

Wow, you got a very very difficult problem, there, girl.

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