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I've had a very interesting few weeks. Nothing massive, but interesting nonetheless.

I'm getting married soon to a great woman. Both of us believe in MB and were BS'es in our respective marriages.

Transparency is big, so I keep my fiance in the loop on any contact with any woman friend I have and we maintain open access to each other's accounts. I've let certain friendships die, with no regret on my end for that.

So we're chugging along, fat dumb and happy with wedding plans in the works when I had a very weird thing occur on Facebook.

A woman asked to be my friend. I didn't recognize the name, but thought it was a high school classmate so I accepted since I accept my high school friends.

She proceeded to write me a rather strange message where she mentioned she was happy I was still around.

That wording was puzzling and I asked her 1. How do I know you?, and 2. What did you mean by that?

So she gave me a loooooong response. She tells me we went on a few dates many years ago. She told me she lost contact with me after I left for the AF and that she tried to write me some letters, but they were sent back to her. She then heard I had died while in the AF, but she found out that wasn't the case.

Her message was a bit flirty. It was a kind of "what might have been" message and felt a bit like a fishing expedition.

I looked at her profile a little more carefully and noticed that it looked like she was married. I then asked her if she was married and told her I was engaged.

I told my fiance about the message and let her read it.

My fiance warned me that this was a fishing expedition, that her message was flirty, and she agreed with me that it looked like she was married and fishing on FB, likely unhappy in her own marriage.

The whole thing made my fiance uncomfortable. I felt that I didn't need the headache and this woman reminded me too much of my own WXW, who used the internet to connect with other men while married to me. I took her off my friends list and contacted a buddy of mine to see if he knew the guy she might be married to so I could confirm if he was her husband and I could expose the contact to him.

She wrote me back, wondering if she said something to offend me.

I responded with a message that told her that I was uncomfortable with the fact that she dodged my question about being married, referring to the father of her kids as, "their father".

I then very bluntly told her she reminded me of my WXW, fishing for lost contacts from the past on the internet while married to someone. I told her that if she was married and unhappy that she should come to MB, but that I felt no need to continue my contact with her. I specifically said that happily married women don't go on the internet to make contact with men they went on a few dates with 18 years ago just to say hi and make friends. Such contact is inappropriate.

I emphasized that I was marrying a wonderful woman and felt no need to make new female friends and that I kept a healthy distance from the very few that I do have. I haven't heard from her since and I haven't been able to confirm her marital status since the guy I think may be her husband could be her brother for all I know.

On top of that, I had an interesting encounter with my WXW which was baffling more than anything.

We've been amicably interacting when it comes to the kids, exchanging a few emails here and there about their school activities or any important tidbits of info about them. All business, nothing really on a personal level.

I'm at the point where I literally don't feel anything when she's around and don�t care if she comes into my house.

So she came to get the kids for Mother's Day. She asked me if my fiance and I were registered anywhere and said she wanted to get something for the kids to give to us. I was surprised by this, but my female acquaintances tell me that this isn't anything unusual. It's alien to me since I wouldn't do such a thing for her, but that's not what I found odd as much as what happened when she was leaving.

Before she left she said, "I meant to show this to you."

She turned around and pulled on the bottom of her shirt so I could see a tattoo at the base of her neck. It was a rather large one,

"It's a phoenix with a sign for Leo. I got it three weeks ago"

All I said was, "Uh. Ok. Well, Happy Mother's Day."

I was a bit baffled by her need to show me this. I've had different theories presented to me:

1. She feels the need to say, "I'm soooo over you. Look at this tattoo I got which you never would have liked."
2. It's a sign of trouble with her live in BF (I hope it's not this because I don't worry about him with my kids. He's nice to them).
3. She simply feels more comfortable talking to me since I am getting married and therefore no longer feels as bad talking to me as she did before.

I would say the third theory is the most likely one, but I still found the whole thing to be a little odd. The other question posed to me was, "why would a woman in her thirties with three kids suddenly want to get a tattoo?"

I don't know. Really, I don't care.

So I guess I present the question to those of you who are divorced: Were there interactions with your WXS, after they left and when things settled down, that made you scratch your head?

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Congratulations on your engagement! Glad you are using MB from the start! I'm actually somewhat envious - my life and marriage would have been entirely different had I known of this place first!

As to all your interesting events - good job on ditching the fisherwoman. You did the right thing. It doesn't matter if she was offended or not - you clearly recognized what was important to you (your fiance) and did what was necessary to protect that.

As for your WXW, first off I don't think it inappropriate for her to buy gifts on behalf of your children. I have a large circle of divorced friends now and the most peaceful arrangements involve formalized agreements about purchasing mothers day/fathers day/birthday/Christmas gifts for the other parent from the kids. It's good for the kids to be able to participate in these events. An upcoming wedding would certainly fall into the same category. When they are older and have their own money, they can do this themselves, just as they would if their parents had stayed together.

The tatoo thing? It's hard to say as you know her best. I'm usually inclined to believe all waywards are selfish, ultra-entitled monsters and that this would be her way of flashing you a bit of skin in hopes to rile you a bit. Or she could be feeling jealous about your upcoming marriage and wants to get in your face a little. But again, you know her best. My own experiences, my friends' experiences and my observation on this board suggest the best way to react to anything a wayward does is NOT to react at all.


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I don't think it's odd that your XWW got a tattoo - lots of women do, now. I think she showed it to you as a 'friends' thing, as in "We're friends now, so we can do little miscellaneous friends things like show each other something new that we got." Benign and meaningless.

I also don't think it's odd that she wants to get you a wedding gift on behalf of the kids - I think that's another 'olive branch.'


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Talking to some of my female aquaintances gave me insight into the idea of the kids buying gifts for the wedding and I don't see it as odd anymore. I was simply surprised by it.

Are these olive branches? Possibly. Probably.

While I feel indifferent towards her, I also haven't forgotten what happened and her complete lack of remorse for those things. I don't feel any need to be friends with her outside of the limits of what is necessary for the kids.

But I don't ever see a Demi Moore/Bruce Willis scenario where they hang out together with their other spouses and go boating and are best buds.

That's a bit much on my end. I'm ok with things staying as they are.




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I really don't care about the tattoo thing. I was puzzled more by her desire to show it to me.

She knows I'm not a fan of tattoos, but that was relevant when she was my wife. She can get billboards on her back if she wishes. If that's her thing, then so be it.

But, isn't that something you do more in your 20's?

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Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
I really don't care about the tattoo thing. I was puzzled more by her desire to show it to me.

She knows I'm not a fan of tattoos, but that was relevant when she was my wife. She can get billboards on her back if she wishes. If that's her thing, then so be it.

But, isn't that something you do more in your 20's?

Lots of older women are getting them now.


D-Day 2-10-2009
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I'm going with everyone else and saying olive branch.

Not every ex can be like the ones in the Santa Clause, and not every one SHOULD be.

Good for you for exposing contact and not falling into a trap!


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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I was going to contact the guy I think might be the woman's husband on FB, but don't want to do it without more evidence that he is indeed her husband.

The whole thing was kind of creepy. I had a very tough time remembering who she was and then realized she was a woman I went on 2 dates with about 18 years ago. She worded things in her message to me in a way that were rather nostalgic. She said that I really treated her well and that after she lost conact that I was simply destined to be one of those people that comes in and out of your life, forever to remain just a nice memory.

I was 19 when we went out. The whole thing weirded me out more than anything. I'm flattered that I made such an impression, but that was 18 years ago!

New subject:

Ok. Set aside the tattoo thing. Those that have divorced, any head scratching interactions with your exes?

Is this simply the natural progression after D? What's next from her, invites to come over for Thanksgiving?


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What I think it is, is that she is really beginning to regret what she did. Karma bus might have hit her somehow.

My thoughts are that she wants to see if you're receptive--since she was loose with morals, she thinks you might be, too. After all, to her, marriage isn't much, and engagement's even less.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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My WW got her first tatoo recently and she is a 36 yr old mother of two. I think it is a bit wierd and in my case, I view it as her trying to show her independance. For your WXW, I have no idea what to make of it. It certainly seems kind of odd, unless it was like somebody recently posted - "hey we're sort of friends now, take a look at this."

FWIW, I think you handled the facebook fishing expedition perfectly. I am convinced there is more harm than good in facebook.


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She's a crazy wayward that still wants to have some level of power over you. She still wants you to want her. The tattoo thing is just a typical insecure woman wanting attention. It's just like a new hairdo. She wants to be complimented on it. She has the mindset of a teenager.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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The tattoo thing wouldn't have surprised me if she did it shortly after she left me. That's when she was at her craziest. 4 years later, though?

I have a very good friend who tells me that ex wives get a little whacky when the ex husband remarries. She says that the idea that the ex really moves on bugs them at some level. She says that is especially true for me since my ex knows the level of committment I put into marriage.

I had really strict boundaries of behavior when I was married. I didn't purposely look at other women. I wasn't blind, but I made a conscious effort to not purposely look.

I deployed along with another pilot I found attractive. I stayed as far away from her as I could and made an effort to not be around her unless we were in a group. Even then, I kept a distance.

In other words, I set up strict boundaries. It was ironically enough at this time that the ex dropped any pretense of having any and started to contact guys on the internet.

Facebook is what it is. The danger is in the lack of personal boundaries some people may have. I have no problem connecting with classmates from high school or people that I work with or belong to groups with. It's up to us to maintain the boundaries.

I could have just as easily never told my fiance about this woman and started exchanging tons of emails with her and developed this online frienship. But I knew there was nothing to gain by doing so.

Same thing with anyone that might contact me on FB. I'll exchange unlimited messages with guy friends, but keep careful boundaries with women. I never write anything that could be interpretted wrong and I make sure to tell my fiance of any contacts.

It's funny, my fiance and I have had many discussions about this topic. She says that she wishes that I would say that I don't wish to talk to other women because I lover her and that's enough.

My response is that that is not enough of a reason. Love is a feeling. The boundaries are in place regardless of my feelings because they can come and go. I understand where she comes from, but she doesn't quite get where I come from.

There were times in my marriage that I was unhappy. I didn't have a wandering eye, however. I kept those personal boundaries because I simply feel that's what should be in place for anyone who is married, regardless of whether or not they are "happy".

So no head scratching stories by others?


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I then asked her if she was married and told her I was engaged.
Okay, I'm just sayin' here... This comment by you could have been construed as a fishing expedition by you. Not knowing you, that's what my immediate thought was as I read it.

It sounds like you have had great boundaries and you have always enforced them (that is awesome), but I would ask your fianc�e how she feels about you having women as friends on FB. Make sure you POJA on this! Frankly I think you should have declined a request from a female high school friend, and once you did get the feeling she was fishing, should have deleted her. How would you have felt if the shoe were on the other foot (i.e if she accepted a male high school friend, then asked if he were married, then told you about it)? You don't have to answer my post - just food for thought.

I hope you both are looking forward to having a terrific M! (especially after what you both had to endure)

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My thoughts are that she wants to see if you're receptive--since she was loose with morals, she thinks you might be, too. After all, to her, marriage isn't much, and engagement's even less.

Quote
She's a crazy wayward that still wants to have some level of power over you. She still wants you to want her. The tattoo thing is just a typical insecure woman wanting attention. It's just like a new hairdo. She wants to be complimented on it. She has the mindset of a teenager.

Quote
I have a very good friend who tells me that ex wives get a little whacky when the ex husband remarries. She says that the idea that the ex really moves on bugs them at some level.

Yes to all of the above.

Many waywards want to be "friends" with the BS/XBS because if you are "friends", then they can say, "See? I didn't really hurt him. I didn't really do anything wrong. We're still friends!"

Olive branch, my foot.

Have you seen this thread?

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2275600#Post2275600



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WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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I did take her off my friends list.

My fiance is aware of who my female friends are. There aren't many. One is a friend who has been only a friend and who has the same boundaries I do. She shares all her contacts with her husband and encouraged me to CC my fiance on any communications I have with her.

Most of my Facebook contacts are high school classmates and college classmates. I really don't talk to any of the women on there. I don't have any issues with my fiance accepting classmates from high school or college and vice versa.

One of my friends, for example, is a woman I flew 26 combat missions with over Iraq. She's happily married and an officer I have tremendous respect for. I address any message I send to her as a message to her and her husband in order to respect the fact that she is married.

As far as telling that woman I was engaged: I did it to specifically let her know that this fish was taken, in case she had any ideas. I also immediately changed my FB picture from one of my kids and I to one of my fiance and I.

I'm very happy with my upcoming wedding. It's funny because I was literally dreading every minute leading up to my first wedding. It was stressful.

This wedding has had some stress, but it is the welcome kind. It's the kind that comes when you put together an event you want to have fun at and want to make sure all is good.

We're getting married on a river boat. We're choosing our songs to dance to, are taking dance lessons, and are really looking forward to the day.

What's really great is that my fiance and my mom chat on FB all the time. They have talked more in the last few months than my ex and my mom talked in years of marriage. It's nice to have a good relationship like that established.

She's also been really open to my family's desires and backgrounds and has been very accomodating. It helps that she likes latin music herself, so we will have a reception with all kinds of music.

Everyone will be surprised with our dance. We're going to rumba!

We've been keeping it quiet, so it's a surprise.

Our "true" song, however, is "Time After Time" by Frank Sinatra. We heard that one while watching a movie and looked at each other with a "That's it!" look on our faces.

We haven't lived together before marriage. It makes the idea of her moving in with me very special and something I'm really looking forward to.

We did pre-marital counseling and the counselors were surprised with how high our scores were. We scored low on some stuff that you really don't know until you live with someone and even those low scores were more along the "I'm not sure since we haven't lived together".

We actually matched up 100% in parts of our questionaires.

I know newly betrayed spouses have a hard time seeing light at the end of the tunnel, but things are great for me right now.

Four years ago I was unemployed, separated from my kids, homeless but living with friends, heartbroken, newly divorced, and broke. I cracked under the pressure and had to get professional help in a hospital.

Four years later and I have a job that pays well, a great woman, I get to see my kids often, and really have little to complain about. Oh, and the US is going to the World Cup with the best team we've ever sent there. If we beat England I'd likely die from overwhelming happiness in my life, if that is possible. smile

I could always pay less taxes. That's my main complaint about life.

Things are good. It's not how I envisioned things going, but I wouldn't have met my fiance if I hadn't gone through them and my kids are doing well despite the turmoil they went through.




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Originally Posted by Mulan
Yes to all of the above.

Many waywards want to be "friends" with the BS/XBS because if you are "friends", then they can say, "See? I didn't really hurt him. I didn't really do anything wrong. We're still friends!"

Olive branch, my foot.

These things have crossed my mind. The idea of frienship is just not there. The only reason I interact with her at all is because of my kids. I otherwise wouldn't want anything to do with her or to be in any kind of contact at all with her.

Part of her olive branches does strike me as an attempt to forget what she did and sweep it under the rug.

I haven't forgotten. I have forgiven, but not forgotten.

Last edited by helpthelostdads; 05/19/10 01:56 PM. Reason: spelling error!
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Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
Oh, and the US is going to the World Cup with the best team we've ever sent there. If we beat England I'd likely die from overwhelming happiness in my life, if that is possible. smile
You'll live long. I guarantee it.


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Those that have divorced, any head scratching interactions with your exes?


Nope. I have not spoken to Wayzilla or have responded to any attempt she has made to contact me since July of 2007. That was about 1-month after the divorce was final.

Her final attempt to contact me was around April of 2009.

I don't know if she ever got the tramp stamp she wanted but I do understand she sports a belly button ring she got when she was 47. Glad I'm never going to see it.


Testosterone boys! Testosterone! It ain’t just for nose, ear and back hair anymore!
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Chrisner,

You have the blessing of having an adult child. I don't, so alas, I have to deal with her for several years to come. You'll likely have to see Wayzilla whenever your daughter marries.

SugarCane, the Spaniards thought as you did!

Almost beat Brazil. I'd be wary if I was England. smile

I lived in the UK for 3 years. I will root for them when they're not playing us.

And the fiance and I have already established that neither one of us is allowed to die....ever.

So we'll see how that works out. She doesn't particularly care for the fact that I remind her she's likely going to outlive me by many years.

But lets not tempt fate.


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You'll likely have to see Wayzilla whenever your daughter marries.


I told her I would pay her to elope.

In any case seeing is not interaction.

Last edited by chrisner; 05/19/10 04:16 PM.

Testosterone boys! Testosterone! It ain’t just for nose, ear and back hair anymore!

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