So, thinking out loud.

A. If we go 'amicably,' I will have good visitation, much of my property left and end up divorced 100%. And the OM will probably move in to my house. Eventually.

B. If I say 'my terms' for the divorce, we could or could not make it to court. I will want to stay in the house, have her have visitation and she will counter counter my suit for emotional abuse. We may go to court, it will get ugly and who knows what the outcome. Her OM will be on trial? Who else? My family, friends, etc? And we will be paying out the rear for this way. And what are the outcome scenarios here?

C. I just stand hard on my grounds and HOPE it does not make it to court. Since she has filed, I 'may' have to leave my house and daughter? And hopefully, in that time, the fog may clear? If she lets it and still wants that?

This is clear, but very confusing to me at the same time...help me visualize please.....

This STANDARD WAYWARD FOG-BABBLE. Virtually every WW says things to her BH like:

�I left you a long time ago.�
�OM has nothing to do with us.�
�My decision to divorce has nothing to do with him (OM).�
�Our marriage was over way beforehand.�
�It is too late for us.�
�I have been unhappy here for a long time and I deserve to be happy.�

Like most wayward fog-talk, this stuff is one-part truth & ten-parts affair/divorce-justification for her. Undoubtedly, there was disconnection in your marriage before her affair began. Undoubtedly, your marriage was not what it could or should have been beforehand. Undoubtedly, there were LBs and inadequate meeting of ENs previously. Undoubtedly, her emotional state put her in a position that made selling out her values and sacrificing her family/friends seem somehow �justifiable� or �understandable� in her mind. Undoubtedly, she had discontents and complaints about your relationship that were legitimate (whether or not she properly and effectively communicated them).

NONE OF THE ABOVE JUSTIFIES AN AFFAIR. SHE HAD OTHER, BETTER OPTIONS ALL ALONG THE WAY AND SHE FAILED TO DEFEND THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL BOUNDARIES AND COMMITMENTS A PERSON IS HONOR-BOUND TO UPHOLD.

Affairs are deliberate, voluntary, self-serving CHOICES made by someone (usually a very insecure & immature person) who has had a MASSIVE BREACH OF THEIR CHARACTER.

My then-WW did the same things to me as your did to you. They all do it. If she was truly �done� a long time ago�before even meeting the OM and well before the affair began�then why didn�t she SAY SO THEN AND FILE FOR DIVORCE TO BE ON HER OWN?

The answer is as follows: Firstly, she wasn�t �done� at the time and later began mentally re-writing her marital history once she started letting down her proper boundaries and becoming inappropriately attached/addicted to the OM. Secondly, remember that she psychologically dates her (emotional/mental) infidelity back far less time than is actually true. WWs are usually �over-the-line� emotionally/socially with their OM LONG BEFORE the relationship becomes frankly sexual. They claim �just friends� with the OM to cover this fact�and often fail to acknowledge or see that the inappropriate, boundary-busting talking/flirting/meeting that takes place as the EA deepens, is far less innocent or harmless than �just friends�. She mentally devalues you and her marriage WELL BEFORE she sleeps with the OM the 1st time, failing all along to accept that, no matter what problems might have existed between you two beforehand, it is THE IMMORAL EMOTIONAL CONNECTION TO THE OM THAT WAS THE MONSTER IN THE CLOSET EVEN THEN.


It's the improper relationship with the OM that makes the marriage appear "hopeless" or "done" to her ... NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

That makes sense. Perfect sense. Still does not make me feel better. On the roller coaster of this chapter in my life, right now, I feel like crap. Don't know what to do. Go home, read, go to a friends house and mope....I am lost here. And feel alone. I am happy during the day because I can spend time with my daughter and have fun. At night, when she is asleep though, I am miserable because my wife is not there (physically yes, mentally, no). Normal? Any tips for me and coping?

Igrip, hi,

I do not know what I can offer to you other than the things others have told you, and only my experience. My only thought was that you might be going to fast, and too much swayed by your W. I am just an odd person in this society, the people here aside, that I simply do not believe in divorce, unless there is abuse of spouse or children, criminal activity, etc.

From an old codger, marriage is simply for life, and it should be hard for either partner to try to disolve, no matter what has gone on.

Tom

Igrip, you and I are in very similar situations. My WW has filed, continues her EA and we are still living together. Well, currently I'm away for training, but will come home in about 4 weeks. I have been living seperate under the same roof since October. It is very hard. I didn't start Plan Aing until December.

You are asking for tips on coping. I can tell you I am much better today than I was last year or earlier this year. It does get a little easier with time, but it still sucks. Here are some things that have helped me personally:

- Think about and write down the reasons you want to stay married

- Take care of yourself. Eat right, sleep right, exercise regularly. Sounds standard, but it really does help.

- Think about what her complaints were/are about you pre-A and take steps to change/correct them. Don't do this to 'show' her you are changing. Do them because you WANT to become a better man.

- Don't let her become the center of your universe. This one is hard, but try to get out of the house once in a while and do something with your friends. Go see a movie by yourself if need be. Having her see that you are strong, confident and not moping around her all day is a positive also.

- Come here to vent when you need to. Continue to read others' threads and keep learning. Help others in similar situations when you can. As bad as it is, your pain and experience can help others.

- Realize and accept that the outcome is really out of your hands. You do what you can as best you can, but ultimately you are powerless to change your WW. She needs to do that on her own and IMO, only God can change her heart.

- This will take some time. Try not to ebb and flo with every nuance she shows towards you. You are going to be OK however this works out. Be patient. No expectations.

- Have confidence that this plan does work, it's just not gauranteed. You need to work it as hard as you can. And sometimes 'working it' actually means doing nothing for a time.

EDIT: Oh yeah, forgot a big one. Don't view your WW as your actual wife. She isn't right now. She is a wayward alien capable of all sorts of bad things. I view my WW much like a drug addict. Thinking of it in that regard has helped me to deal with her a bit.

Being a doormat will only get you stepped on

rolling over and playing dead will only get you killed

WW is manipulating you to go along quietly because she doesn't have the means or the stomach to fight herself.

You want your family saved. Then fight as badly as you want to keep it.

The worse that can happen?

You get screwed either way. But you can sleep at night that you left no stone unturned.

What do you think your daughter will be calling the OM when he moves in as the ink is still drying?

Where are youfrom originally? Massachusetts? Rhode Island?

Why are you going down before the bell even rings?

Today, I will be getting the divorce papers served to me. My wife said she was scared to tell me...seems as if people told her that I could 'jeckle and hyde' and become very angry when this happened. I told her I was hurt, devastated and sort of 'embarrassed' about it (it seems so methodical and impersonal getting papers served). I assured her that I was not angry nor have I shown any anger in the past month. Not even when I found out about the affair and confronted her.

She was honestly 'sad' looking; she was studying me this morning before she left. She did say she was sorry.

I am thinking the second plan is the one I will take...continue fighting for my family while not taking this divorce proceeding laying down. Stretch it out as long as possible...give the fog time to lift....show her how 'good' and calm and understanding I have become.

Another interesting thing she mentioned today. She 'asked' if she could take a certain car to work (we have a few cars). I told her of course, not sure why she was asking though. She said she always had asked....ok, I may see that and I am just extra sensitive now. Then she mentioned how I would always want her to call me when she arrived somewhere (not to work but when she went out of town or something). Her 'friends' thought it was controlling behavior disguised under 'worrying.' I told her that I did worry - even when her mom went out of town, I would want her to call us - to know she was safe, not to control. I worry about my family I told her...honestly, I do. If something happens on the road, who would know if not me? Hope that made sense to her....that I am not 'all bad' and maybe she will begin to see that slowly.

Tough day already...but I will come home after I get the papers and enjoy my family time together while she wonders why I am not angry.

She also mentioned me getting mad one day that the microwave was dirty. I don't remember specifics, but she asked me why I was angry. I told her that I should have just cleaned it myself...save lots of grief that way and that is something I have learned.

I really don't remember getting angry - just annoyed because I had asked before. Maybe hurtful, but not spitting or raging mad as she seems to remember. Another clouded vision and history re-writing huh? The fact is that I realized how I handled it then and told her how I should have handled it....briefly, not specifically, but at least she knows how my actions are changing.

igrip, did you read our posts about to best defend your marriage? Countersue for adultery and ask for the house and primary custody of your DD. Your wife is not a very good mother right now and would drag your child into her affair if you don't stop her. This is how little girls end up molested and killed. So you need to fight to protect her.

Get yourself the meanest SOB lawyer you can find and start fighting for your family. Countersue for adultery and have the OM called into court to give testimony under oath about his affair. Have your lawyer subpeona all his cell records and emails. OM are wimps and cowards and he will run if you make his life a living hell.

But you had better get on the stick and get a good lawyer before she gets you kicked out of your house and has the OM taking your place.

Yup! And... you don't have to make yourself available for service you know. You can duck and delay until you get your own attorney set up. Or you can accept service and get yourself to an attorney to help you immediately countersue for adultery.

In Texas, she will probably ask for a temporary hearing at which time the Judge will order one of you out of the house. Will it be you or her? You'll want to make sure that your attorney includes a request to the court that she is not to expose your daughter to the OM.

"She also mentioned me getting mad one day that the microwave was dirty. I don't remember specifics, but she asked me why I was angry. I told her that I should have just cleaned it myself...save lots of grief that way and that is something I have learned."

You'll have to forgive me as I seemingly don't know how to use the quote feature here.

Tough day for you, and as a lot of us here can relate, it sucks. With that being said, I can't help but notice in reading your posts, that you seem to be reacting to every word, every nuance of your WW....looking to see some kind of hope, or change in her tone---conducting an analysis of where SHE might be emotionally, or what her next step is.

Thing is, you know what her next step is. It's showing up in an envelope today.

I think that what many of the vets on this board are imploring you to do is think about YOUR plan. Yes, this is hard. Yes, this is a bad day. But YOU need to get YOUR plan into play here. Stop analyzing the minutiae about a dirty microwave and whether or not you were really angry, or why she might have perceived you as being angry, and START making decisions that are about YOU and your CHILD.

I hope that doesn't sound harsh, but know that I did the exact same thing...the sitting around and wondering what she meant when she said "x". When I realized that most of what she was telling me was BS anyways, and I started to put a plan in action that was about ME....things started to turn around.

All advice makes sense. I don't mind anyone being tough on me...my emotions are not great right now so a swift kick in the a%% is sometimes what I need.

Today, she woke up angry. Just in general. I said good morning as usual and was getting our daughter and I ready to start breakfast. Everything I do seems to annoy her from cooking dinner last night to cleaning the microwave and oven after I was finished cooking. She mentioned going to work out of town in a few weeks...I told her that sounded fun. Then she said "I don't have an motive for going you know" and I told her I would not want OM anywhere around. If it was better, baby and I could go with her, go to a zoo, etc. while she was working and get together at night. She snapped that 'fine, I'm not going' and came up with many excuses as to why a trip like that would not be good, convenient, blah blah blah for baby.

Just annoyed in general. I think (who knows) that it may be guilt building up. She has become an angry person lately. If I was not involved directly, could be sort-of comical. The abducted alien examples I have heard on these boards make more and more sense every day.

I think she may be getting annoyed because you showing her that you are a great husband and father is making her question her feelings for OM. You are doing well. Stay consistent.

Did you get the divorce papers?

Got the papers. Was a normal day - got papers, came home, played with baby and mama, cooked dinner for us and cleaned up. Actually annoyed her that I was cleaning up because 'i never did that before' although I did.

Today, had discussions.....she woke up angry, came home angry with pages from an emotional abuse website with all behaviors that I had exhibited to her highlighted. I told her I could see and understand, but I could not argue with her as that made sense. We talked all afternoon...she blew up a few times, I stayed calm and loving. We spoke of why she didn't even talk to me anymore - she was thinking I would 'drag her under the bus' with anything she said (in court). She still adamantly says how 'done' she is - she tried and tried, was hurt and now she is numb.

We don't even mention the affair because honestly, I don't care. Yes, it bothers me. Yes, I never want to see OM again. But I just want my wife back.

Mentioned how I was praying now, loved her unconditionally, forgave her for everything....if she wanted divorce, she would have to do legwork because I want to be married - she knows that.

Told her that nights were sad for me because daytime, I can be with my daughter. Nights, I am alone.

Please forgive me for asking over and over, but HOW does bulldog attorney and me fighting for custody, house, etc. make my wife want to stay with me? I really am not comprehending this..but am trying. I have an appointment with the bulldog next week.

I really believe she is deeply hurt from my past actions. However, I am having trouble believing that she can 'toss' away our 12 years...ESPECIALLY that I am becoming a better man and she sees it? I believe that she is not talking to OM anymore based on her attorney advice. Can an emotional wound be that deep and hurt that bad - I know it can, I just don't see that I was that big of a monster. Overall, I was/am a great husband....not that two rights can outdo a wrong, but honestly, I feel that I was.

Here is how. Your wife is in a fogged out addiction to her affair right now. All of her decisions are colored by her affair. The affair will not last. But if you cooperate with the divorce, you will be divorced before the affair ends.

The affair is temporary, divorce is not. So, your job is to make the divorce as difficult as possible and drag it out. Make it as hard as possible.

Secondly, fighting back and standing up your marriage will insert some much needed reality into her fogged out mind, giving her second thoughts.

On the other hand, if you ENABLE her in the destruction of your marriage, you will end up with a destroyed marriage.

I think you are under the illusion that appeasement and ENABLEMENT will buy her love. But it is the opposite. If you won't fight for her and you allow her to run over you, you will do nothing but earn her CONTEMPT and DISGUST. Men who allow us to run over them are disgusting, not appealing.

Thank You Melody...that makes sense. I think. It does.

She is scared that I will be 'dragging' it out, but basically, I am pushing - seems like I want house, etc...but I really want my wife? And she will see that rather than thinking I am being some jerk? Please forgive my continued doubts...and questions..I can't ask anyone else this stuff.

Just let her know that you are not interested in getting divorced and because of that, won't be cooperating. Tell her you WILL be dragging it for years and will be countersuing for adultery, possession of the house, primary custody. But let her know you WILL be generous with the custody division.

And since you aren't interested in divorce and won't be cooperating, tell her, you are going to just turn all that unpleasant, nasty stuff over to the lawyer.


igrip, keep the MAIN GOAL in mind here. The goal is to save your marriage not to avoid her anger at all costs. I feel like I need to remind you of this quite often. If you do the very basic things to defend your marriage from her adultery, she will call you a "jerk" or "controlling." You are NOT doing your job if she is NOT calling you that. Because if she is not calling you a "jerk" or whatever, that means you are enabling and appeasing; the fastest ticket to divorce.

igrip, FWIW, ITA with Melody. Also, you need to think of your WW like a child. I often say that I KNOW I am doing the right things for my children when they say, "I HATE YOU." I say, "I am sorry you feel that way. I love you." That might not work with a WW, but you KNOW you are doing the right thing.

You aren't setting out the bulldog lawyer on her to make her HAPPY. You are trying to put pressure on the affair. You are also standing up for yourself AND your DD. You can and SHOULD do this. Stop doubting yourself.