Got a bit down hearted yesterday (sorry for last post). Plan A still going with maximum effort!

Andy, to answer your question in the previous post, it is truly up to YOU. Don't make a decision off of emotions though. When you decide to end your marriage, think about it for a few days first. Whether you sace your marriage or not by your actions is not the main concern. It's how you will live with yourself after. If you do your best right now, you will have no regrets with how you handled yourself.

Thanks, I see what you mean, and that's why I'm still putting myself through this. If I give up, I'll never know for sure if i could have saved it or not, and ultimately I would really like to save it.

Andy:

This line:


Too many people are JUDGING HER NOW. For her ACTIONS. Not for what YOU did. They are not saying to her: "WW, that H of yours is crazy for telling us about your affair!" No, they are saying: "WW, how could you cheat?"

Big difference. People understand the difference.

And there is only ONE person that can show her forgiveness, and that is YOU. If she does what she needs to do to recover, then anytime anyone sees her in the FUTURE, with YOU, they now that you know, and have worked it out with her.

So, let her KNOW that. She can change jobs, towns and husbands, but her past will ALWAYS be there. ONly you can offer her forgiveness, and acceptance with all those that know about what she did.

LG

Yep, I totally agree! But Trying to explain this to her is virtually impossible. It almost comes across as me trying to pursuade her to come back, which is a big LB. She has said she is sorry but has not actually made any attempt to show it with her actions. I kinda expected this though from the surviving an affair pages.

She is adamant that she will go down the 'run away and start again' route, moving to a new town near her work, never seeing our friends again. She sees that as a much more attractive option than the 'fix the marriage and save the best bits' option. The only way I can see around this is to make plan A work so that choice is harder for her.

I find it real difficult to strike the balance between plan A and not acting like I'm desperate to have her back. For example, when I'm not with her, should I play it cool and just act like I'm enjoying myself so she feels like she wants to be a part of it? Or should I be calling her just to chat and find out how she is doing?

She is on my mind every second. I'm even awake at 4am writing this! She is at a friends house tonight (not OM, I'm sure) but we only exchanged a couple of txts yesterday, started by me. I'd love to call and chat like we used to, but it seems like I'm checking up on her! I can tell she doesn't like it. Should I just act nice all the time and wait for her to make the moves? Even the small
moves like phonecalls and hugs and general attention?

Thanks for Reading, replying and for all the encouragement - keeps me going!

Updated my signature after seeing the newbies thread!

Just spent a couple of days with WW trying to just have fun. Yesterday started bad. Constant remarks at me about the things I did that helped our relationship go bad before OM came along. But after a while we started getting on again and had a great day.

I'm trying to make her decision to move out an awkward one. She's having trouble finding a place she can afford on her own. I suggested we both make a new start together in the town she likes and she'd be able to afford a real nice place. She let me put her arm around her but I think I was pushin it a bit too much.

I still have a few questions though about how I'm going with this:

1-Today, it was back to more of her justification of the A. But she was really laying into me. I bit my Tongue over and over again, offering nice food, favours, just taking flak and not saying anything bad back. She says she has justified everything in her mind as perfectly reasonable, although I assume she still goes on about it because she feels guilty. Is this right do you think?

2-Also, any ideas on what I can do to make her move awkward or pursuade her to at least move WITH me? Pursuasion always seems like a real LB.

3-Another thing, I know she likes hugs and affection and things that I'm desperate to give her, but she rejects it as 'wierd' saying 'we have to move on', but I'm sure she wants it deep down, and I know she'd love to go back to what we once had. Should I completely back off with these things and let her come to me, or keep offering hugs etc when I get the chance?

4-She still says she finds being around me really depressing, and that's because even though I try to change the conversation, she's always talking about why things were so bad, the A was the only way out. She also always asks what others are saying about her. It's like a cloud of judgement hanging over her all the time. Is there any way I can help move her on from this 'Fog'? I've tried explaining things
from previous posts but it's like she isn't listening.

Any ideas at all are welcome. I really don't feel like my plan A is making any progress at the minute because she doesn't feel comfortable around me and is really defensive about everything.

Sorry, just bumping to top as it was a busy w/e on the forums!

Andy, not much time to post, but I feel your frustration. You're a month into plan A. Quickly, I'd say keep biting your tongue and building the trust - you're wife needs to know she can say anything, however stupid selfish or childish, and you won't react or judge her. This will pay off when she finally pulls her head out. Meet the needs she'll let you meet. period. Persuasion is a LB because you can't control her; Plan A is to let her know what life could be like if she stays - but it probably wont work by itself so stick with the plan and start thinking about a quick sudden transition into Plan B (she's not going to agree to no contact without PB - sorry to inform you).
You're in a good solid Plan A. Keep it up. Start making preparations for Plan B.
thats my take.
opt

She may or may not feel guilty and it does not matter. You can turn her "perfectly reasonable" explanations back at her: It is reasonable for people to cheat? Hmmmmm....it must be a matter of time before OM cheats on you then. I wonder if Sandra Bullock (or insert a person who she likes - family member, friend, etc - who you know she would not say this about) feels it was reasonable for her spouse to cheat on her.

Don't try to explain stuff to WW. Put the question back on her to make her think how silly such "logic" is. You should not be subjecting yourself to her wayward babbling, offering perks but saying nothing in return...that is being a doormat.


You have made the offer to move with her, so leave it alone for now. She doesn't want to hear it and you don't want to look desperate.


You can offer but don't go overboard.


She isn't listening and you need to stop trying to educate her. WS are insane and don't want to hear logic...the end. Next time she asks about what others are saying about her, tell her something like "I don't know but I doubt they are happy to see you throwing your marriage away on OM who uses you like toilet paper" or "Most people don't think highly of cheaters so what do you think they say about you?" You don't want to be mean but be direct.

Blackraven, optimism, Thanks for reading the post as I know it had slipped down the threads list - I thought my thread had 'expired'.

Thanks for the advice, it really helps me to keep trying.

WW is away on business for the next few days and then spending the Saturday at a friends house. Im not worried about the work trip, but Im unsure about her staying with her friend. I cant help suspecting the affair has gone further underground, despite her assurances they have called it off, and no real evidence that things are continuing.

I am already trying to take up her time with things to keep them apart, but, at the end of the day, they work together so I'm powerless over that (yes I've tried full-on formal complaints - employer didn't care, but it makes things awkward at least). Was the brutal exposure enough stick? I'll keep up trying to prove Im the better option and use direct comments (as raven puts it) where necessary. Should I relentlessly pursue snooping, regardless of the risks of getting caught and the fact that I doubt it will make much difference other than making me more angry or disappointed? Getting caught would also be a serious, serious LB and im not sure its worth the risk for what I would find (and already assume worst case scenario anyway).

Should any hint of them spending time together start to surface openly - I won't hesitate to snuff it out by any possible means. Im hoping that a good carrot side of Plan A - combined with the fact that she still has to sneak around to be with OM (also alienating her family) - will be enough for now.

Bottom line - Is it worth the risk of taking the snooping to another level? GPS & keyloggers etc? If I find anything out and confront her - She'll just admit it and tell me to F*** off.

Hi Andy,

Why do you need more evidence if NC is not agreed to yet? She still wants to move out correct?

What worked great for me was having a GPS and VAR in WW's car. I got to a point that I had enough evidence and didn't care to know more. WW's actions were enough for me once I got the evidence I needed.

Well, i don't think I need extra evidence but it would give me more info to carry out the 'stick' part of plan A I suppose. It's good to know that once you had enough info, u stopped snooping and concentrated on other aspects of the plan.

Yes, she still hasn't agreed to NC (because it's unecessary if we're finished in her eyes), and she is still looking for a new flat.

andy, I haven't read your entire thread, but just reading that she still wants out and NC isn't established I'd just go and assume that it was still going on. She still sounds sooooo very foggy. I don't know your timeline for plan A, but I'd start preparing for plan B. In the meantime try to meet any EN that you can. Think back in time when she would ask you to do things for her, what were they? Do them now.

You don't have to confront her every time you find something. I would use the keylogger at the very least. Even if WW is telling you to F off, just ignore her and don't let that weaken your resolve. Have you spoken with OMW recently to see what is going on from her end? Is she still willing to talk to you?

OMW only sees OM at weekends, just when he picks up his children to see them. She doesn't know what he's up to except when he has the children. I'll look onto getting a keylogger though.

My plan B should be relatively easy to start (except for emotionally ofcourse) but I haven't been in plan A very long so I'm going to hold out longer.

At the minute WW is going through a friendly phase and has let me hug her a few times. Me not showing her little things like this was one of the reasons our M started to go sour, because she felt unwanted. I really know the things she likes, but they are too intimate for her right now, even hugging or running my fingers through her hair are getting too close. She is still massively defensive, but at least she is starting to be friendly back over the last few days. Who knows if this will change tomorrow though. I'm just gonna keep going with plan A and hope I can make her crack somehow and let me be affectionate towards her again.....Fingers crossed.

To confront or not to confront?....

Ok, things have been going quite well recently (relatively speaking). Ww has been talking about the possibility of giving up her job and starting again. We had a fantastic weekend and we at least hugged a few times and we slept in the same bed twice. I was convinced that I might be getting through to her. I was even saying to a friend last night that I was 95% sure nothing was going on with OM. Ww said it's only professional, but they are still friends but barely speak at all out of work, maybe a couple of calls in the last few weeks. She also still insists they only slept together once.

Things changed this morning. My iPhone needed restarting and for some reason I can't remember the password for my backup files. To keep me going I restarted my phone with WW backup files as we have mainly the same numbers and music etc. When I turned it on, there was a text saying 'skype chat xxx' from OM. I checked the skype app and saw they have been calling every night and talking at 4am and numerous times through the day. I also found photos that went on my phone including one of OMs bare @rse (I assume after a sh@g) taken only a week ago!!!

I feel less gutted than the first time around, but still, really betrayed again. Why has she been so much closer to me? I could continue to use this snooping tactic which bypasses her iPhone keylock, or I could confront her to put a spanner in the works again. I actually think I would have preferred not knowing this time around. I really thought we were getting somewhere, my plan A was starting to show some results at last for the first time in 2months. I'd just like to hear peoples opinions on how they would approach this situation. Thanks guys.

I am sorry, Andy, but you are getting absolutely nowhere until all contact is ended. Recovery is impossible and she will never withdraw from her OM as long as they work together. You can consider the affair ACTIVE every day she sees him.

I would confront her with this news and DEMAND that she end her affair and quit that job.

Can you refresh my memory on your exposures? Has this been exposed at the workplace? Have you contacted the OM personally? What about the OM's parents and facebook? What have you been doing to cause conflict in the affair?

I exposed really well to everyone, family, friends, and work
place where they did an internal review and decided to do nothing about it, but the embarrassment is there. Her father still won't talk to her he's
so disgusted, nor will many of her friends. I also contacted OMW but not directly OM, people seemed to think that wouldn't make much difference. OMW exposed on her side too. They are in process of
divorce.

I have no active measures to stop the affair other than taking up as
much of her time as possible. I feel like I'm out of options. I take your point about the alcoholic, I expected it too, it's just when I got proof, it still hurt. Thanks.

Put that picture of POSOM's bum on your facebook page.

Title it: "My Wife's new Boyfriend's Better Half"

Seriously.

Confronting ain't the issue now. The issue is a cake-eating wayward.

She was loving your Plan A, and the good times with OM.

Really liking the good times with OM.

So, you have been fighting this for 2 months. Thought you were getting somewhere. But she was liking the cake.

Blow up the fantasy, and time for her to move out.

Your M may end. But this is HER choice.

She is liking the status quo. So you have to change it.

Then is becomes YOUR choice.

Big difference. And very powerful for you.

LG