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BTinTrouble #2379412 05/26/10 12:46 AM
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This is a DRAFT. It is obviously way too long. I just included everything to start. Please feel free to edit it in any way. I would love to see all criticisms, feedback and suggestions. Thank you in advance!

To family/friend,

I have not been very good about staying in touch, and I am sorry it has to be about this.

W and I are having serious problems. For the past few years, I have not been a very good husband. I have been emotionally absent and negligent in the care of my wife. I have not honored my vows to love and cherish her every day.

Things came to a head in late September '09 when W confronted me and stated she was not happy and that if things did not improve she would leave. We had a long talk, and I told her I wanted her to be happy, but was unsure what to do. I suggested we go to counseling. She agreed to this, but rather than start immediately, we finally agreed to wait until after we moved to NC and got settled in to the house we planned to purchase. She told me I would have 2 years to shape up.

To save money during the move, we came down to NC and planned to stay with a friend in his 3 bedroom house until we could get our own place. It was W and I with Son in 1 bedroom, Owner and GF in another, and a man named OM in the third. In retrospect, I think I should have just rented us our own place, because it was a very stressful living arrangement with so many people and a 1 yr old living and sleepign in our room. However, it always seemed like it would be only "a couple more weeks," till something always came up and it eventually turned into about 5 months.

During this time, rather than wait till we got our place or started counseling I began to take steps to work on myself. W brought to my attention how my excessive time playing video games meant ignoring her and Son. I stopped playing video games. I started trying to do better at showing appreciation and recognition. We had some good times for W's birthday and Anniversary.

However, during free time W enjoyed watching TV. OM also enjoyed this leisure activity, and they began to spend time together. At first I was very happy to see her smile and glad that she had a friend, but I now realize that I was wrong, and that I should have been taking steps to make her smile and be her friend. W began to grow more emotionally distant from me, though I thought it was only the continued stress of the living arrangements, and didnt consider it could be anything else.

We finally closed on our house on Mar 31. We moved in that day. I was so happy that now we could finally "settle in" and get on track to the recovery we had talked about. However, approximately 1 week after moving in, W stated she was done. She planned to seek a divorce and move out as soon as she could get her feet under her. That she was done, her mind was made up and nothing would change it. She agreed to still go to counseling so that she could say she did it, and to try to keep a friendship so the seperation could be amicable.

I was devestated. I didnt know what to do. I was very emotionally and did not respond very well. Since then, strides in my personal growth have allowed to me handle myself in a much more appropriate manner. I continue to work on myself as a person, husband, and father, and continue to work on my part in this marraige. I have not given up.

I was doing a cursory check of our online phone bill when I discovered you can input a name after clicking on a number, and it would automatically switch every instance of the number to the name. I did this to 3 or 4 numbers on Ws phone and was concerned when OMs number changed 3/4's of the page to his name. I continued to investigate and the more I found the more I dug.

I found that from Mar 4th to Apr 3rd, W spent 18 hours on the phone with OM. From Apr 4th to May 3rd, there was 58 hours. In comparison, time spent with anyone other than OM during Apr 4th to May 3rd totaled less than 4 hours combined. From May 4th to the 17th was another 15 hours.

W has also stated she plans to seek custody of son, and to get her own place and have OM as a roommate. She has stated she is doing this for herself and for our son since Son deserves to see her happy.

I wish I had never let it get this far. No matter how "amicable" a seperation could be, it WILL cause Son pain. There is no way around it, and multitudes of studies confirm that fact.

I know that I am willing and able to do whatever it takes to make this marraige work. I know that regardless of what happens, I will be a better person for learning to take responsibilty for my actions, learn to be a more open and compassionate person and stand up for what I believe in. I know that I want to teach my son what commitment means, teach him how adults resolve differences, and show him how 2 people can demonstrate and build a lasting loving relationship.

Regardless what happens, this is going to be a tremendously difficult time for W. She is going to need lots of love and support. I realize that if we all lived near eachother and were in regular contact, you would probably already have noticed something was wrong, and been able to offer your love, perspective, advice, and support. Since that is not the case, I am writing this to you to inform you and offer you that chance.

If you want to ask me any questions, my number is XXXXX, my email addresses are YYYYYY and ZZZZZZZ.

W's number is AAAAAAAAAA, and email addresses are BBBBB and CCCCCCCC.

Our address is MMMMMMMMM, and we are also both on Myspace and Facebook.

Thank you for your love and support,

Sincerely,
BTinTrouble

Last edited by BTinTrouble; 05/26/10 12:47 AM.

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BTinTrouble #2379426 05/26/10 05:46 AM
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"I still dont believe there is a PA, just for the record, so that if there is and I have to come on here and tell you guys, you can wag your fingers and "We told you so...""

You are a fool not to get a VAR. Your WW will deny to her grave that there was an affair. Your WW will get your son most likely with you paying CS. Your WW will move the OM into your house an bed in front of your son.

A cheater and lier will get to be the father figure and mentor your son.Your son will be taught it's all about "me" and his actions will have no consequences.

Edit to add that WW will be using the money that you pay for CS to support the OM.

Last edited by TheRoad; 05/26/10 06:24 AM.
BTinTrouble #2379429 05/26/10 05:51 AM
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BT,

Heaven's NO! WAY too long! Also you do not dilute it by going into your shortcomings to justify her actions, people know there is no such thing as a perfect H.

Short and sweet. My wife XXX is having an affair with OM. It is ruining our marriage. I am doing everything i can to save my marriage and I could use any help and advice you can give me.

Mel has a letter on a post i saw that was good, addressed to friends of skankhola or something, perhaps she will see this and paste it here.

That letter is a serious no-go, far too long and too much info. I know you are trying and it would feel good to express some of your true feelings, but do that here. This is an exposure letter to shine the light of day on the affair and ask for help.

SWW

PS I am glad you are seeing that an EA is just as destructive and that you really have enough evidence already. For the record I believe WW was so nice because she was in contact with the OM and wants to keep you unsuspecting, but that's my opnion.

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BT,

I totally agree with SWW. I too am very glad that you are seeing this EA for what it is which is a destructive force on your marriage.

The letter is way too long and way too much on you. Yes you have done things wrong but no matter what it was HER choice to get involved with this OM. And her involvement with him is ruining your marriage.

For the record i know that we BSs have been hurt by our WSs betrayal and we may have a slightly skewed point of view. However as much as i hate to say this i also think that her being nice and getting her hair done was for keeping you in the dark about OM.

And i promise we will not say i told you so if you do find out it has went further.

Still_Crazy #2379476 05/26/10 08:25 AM
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You guys can say I told you so if it gets to that, its not like it will make it hurt any more or less since it would be true.

Also, TheRoad... there IS in fact a VAR in my house while I am gone right now. So I hope at least in that respect I am not a fool. Thank you for reinforcing the 2x4 of how this could go and what it might mean to my son. It is a good reminder for why this is so important beyond just WW and I.

Ok, too long, knew that. Hmmm, need to find one of the shorter ones.

Ok, exposure, what kind of info should I keep in there?

Phone record stuff?
Dates?
The living arrangement from Dec-Mar that led to the EA?

You are saying I should throw out a lot of the "me" stuff that created the vulnerable enviroment.

I understand I dont need to go this detailed, I understand that I can answer questions if the friends / family want more info, they can ask. But I REALLY dont want this to turn into a W bashing letter where she is the one who is all bad. This decision she has made I believe is all bad, for what it does to her, me and our son. But I dont think she is a terrible person. I believe she is making a mistake, and in her fog, is able to deny it. I also know that I hold some responsibility for creating an enviroment where she had needs unmet for so long.

I do not in any way take responsibility for her decision.

So how to state that short and sweet.

Thanks for the feedback, I will think about this some more, keep 2x4ing me and offering advice, I really appreciate it.


Lifelong recovery never ends.

BTinTrouble #2379485 05/26/10 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
[W and I are having serious problems. For the past few years, I have not been a very good husband. I have been emotionally absent and negligent in the care of my wife. I have not honored my vows to love and cherish her every day.

HOLY CRAP!! Nonononono.... BT, this will not work. This is way too much information and it muddies the waters. Nor do they need to know what kind of husband you were; it is not relevant to the issue.

Have you got the OMW's information?? Because you need to expose to her NOW. That exposure, along with your DEMAND that your wife end her affair might very well kill this affair. But if you don't make her your first target, you are just fiddling around the edges.

Exposure should be done in a phone call [except facebook exposures of course] and goes like this :

Dear friend, My wife, Sally, is having an affair with Joe Scumbag. Their affair started around XX-2010 and has been confirmed with hours of phone conversations and other evidence. She has asked for a divorce so she and my son can get an apartment with this married man.

I am horrified that my son has been dragged into this affair and upset that he has been exposed to Joe.

I am trying to save my marriage for myself and my baby son and ask that you use your influence to persuade her to end her affair. I am asking for your support and advice in saving my marriage.

Thank you


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


BTinTrouble #2379488 05/26/10 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
[W has also stated she plans to seek custody of son, and to get her own place and have OM as a roommate. She has stated she is doing this for herself and for our son since Son deserves to see her happy.

faint

BT, I am once again speechless and my blood pressure is soaring. She has admitted her goal is to move in with the OM yet you continue to condone her contact AND to allow your child around this man who wants to replace you?

I am too angry for words. mad


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


BTinTrouble #2379504 05/26/10 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
Thanks LorG and others.

I have come to the point (THANKS SO MUCH MARKOS!!)

You're welcome; I'm glad I could be of help. smile


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2379951 05/26/10 06:27 PM
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Mel, I am an idiot quite often. I will make connections at a speed and depth that leaves people out of sight behind me, then be stopped cold by an inability to grasp something obvious and simple, especially when it deals with people. Not sure why.

I am sorry for the stress I must be putting you through, and I am appreciative of the amount you must really care for it to affect you like this.

I DO NOT condone her conduct anymore, without reservations.

On contact with OM. In the past (maybe a month and a half ago?) he asked if I minded them being friends. At the time, I kind of did mind, but I thought it was a leftover of me being a controlling and jealous husband, so I said, "no, I dont mind." Now I feel like, since I gave him the "OK" to basically date my wife and fill her ENs, I should at least let him know that I am in fact not ok with this anymore.

Yes or no?

Regardless, I will not be condoning any contact with him and my family.

Second, I cannot find OMW on the internet. When I return from this trip I will surreptitiously do some poking around work to see if there is any sort of information laying around, like maybe what town they live in, anything to narrow the search some. Until then, I dont know how to contact OMW.

Mel, is that really all I need for exposure? Seems so simple and incomplete, but then, the samples on that Thread to help Newly Betrayed Posters (http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2379879&page=3) are pretty short too. Ok, will rewrite it tonight again.

Mel you mentioned it being a phone call.

I cant call her father, he has no phone. I can call her mother and some family and friends. W also has many Facebook friends I can facebook letter to. However, OM has no facebook or social network site activity. I dont really have a way to contact his friends or family at this time.

For family and friends, I had thought to mail a letter since it is a physical thing, demonstrates how much it really matters, and can be held in the hand and read over and over.

Last thing, we have an MC appointment on Tues after Mem day (when she gets back from camping). She is getting upset with MC because he is saying things that hint that what we are going through (not counting the EA which he doesnt know about) isnt really a big deal and that we could totally work it out. I am wondering if she gets upset with this MC if I could then get her to agree to talk with SH.

Should I wait on exposure for this possibility, or should I just go ahead and do it this weekend after checking the VAR?

Appreciating any and all thoughts. Thanks so much you guys.


Lifelong recovery never ends.

BTinTrouble #2379966 05/26/10 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
Should I wait on exposure for this possibility, or should I just go ahead and do it this weekend after checking the VAR?

Appreciating any and all thoughts. Thanks so much you guys.

Dude,

Get your complete list together and expose now! The marriage counselor gig is a sham to lull you to sleep!

She is divorcing you and moving the OM to be your kid's DAD!

Honestly.

SWW

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Seriously,

Not to be a broken record, but if you don't get off the stick here, you are not gonna have a family and OM is going to be banging your WW and teaching your son about morals.

Are you still cleaning off those pelicans? Get busy!

SWW

BTinTrouble #2379975 05/26/10 06:43 PM
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BT..you are full of excuses.

Why don't you just rent OM and your wife a room so they can bump ugly?

Maybe you can hold their clothes for them?

BTinTrouble #2379977 05/26/10 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
On contact with OM. In the past (maybe a month and a half ago?) he asked if I minded them being friends. At the time, I kind of did mind, but I thought it was a leftover of me being a controlling and jealous husband, so I said, "no, I dont mind." Now I feel like, since I gave him the "OK" to basically date my wife and fill her ENs, I should at least let him know that I am in fact not ok with this anymore.

Yes, I would revisit this immediately and tell him that he is to never ever contact your wife again or "there will be serious consequences." Don't threaten to kick his [censored], but allude to this fact.

Tell him his AFFAIR is inappropriate and that if he comes to your home again, that you will call the police and file a restraining order against him. This is best said in person, but a phone call will suffice. If you visit him in person, I would leave your ammuntion in the car but make sure your holster and pistol are in plain sight.

Also mention to him that there is no future with your wife because he will be eternally hated by the in-laws and by your son.

Yes or no?


Quote
Second, I cannot find OMW on the internet. When I return from this trip I will surreptitiously do some poking around work to see if there is any sort of information laying around, like maybe what town they live in, anything to narrow the search some. Until then, I dont know how to contact OMW.

Ok, this is way too important to leave to chance. Can you hire a PI? It might only cost you $300 to get her name and phone # but you HAVE to get it, BT. This might be the magic bullet for your marriage. You cannot afford to not find her.

Quote
Mel, is that really all I need for exposure? Seems so simple and incomplete, but then, the samples on that Thread to help Newly Betrayed Posters (http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2379879&page=3) are pretty short too. Ok, will rewrite it tonight again.

You need to be short, sweet and to the point. The more words you use, the more you muddy the waters. Your post, as written, conveys doubt and confusion.

Quote
I cant call her father, he has no phone. I can call her mother and some family and friends. W also has many Facebook friends I can facebook letter to. However, OM has no facebook or social network site activity. I dont really have a way to contact his friends or family at this time.

Then only call a few of the CLOSEST contacts and email the rest of them.

And you do need to get names and phone #s of the OMs wife and his parents and perhaps sibs.


Quote
Last thing, we have an MC appointment on Tues after Mem day (when she gets back from camping). She is getting upset with MC because he is saying things that hint that what we are going through (not counting the EA which he doesnt know about) isnt really a big deal and that we could totally work it out. I am wondering if she gets upset with this MC if I could then get her to agree to talk with SH.

I would lose this counselor entirely and go all out with Steve Harley. He is not going to jack around here, BT. If you counsel with him alone, he will tell you what to say to get her on the phone. Once he gets her on the phone, he is going to do a major sell job on the marriage.


Quote
Should I wait on exposure for this possibility, or should I just go ahead and do it this weekend after checking the VAR?

I think you should check the VAR and then expose no matter what. If there is something on your VAR it will just bolster your case. BUT, you have enough to run with now.

The key thing is to get the goods on the OM. Have you run his name in intelius.com or pipl.com?



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


BTinTrouble #2380025 05/26/10 07:22 PM
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Agreed - too long. But I think I do get why you want to say all of it the way you do. This letter is just not the right vehicle for it all.

Per your statement/request that you do not want it to be a wife bashing letter (and if done with the right intent that has been given to you in the thread, is not that), if you need to add something on yourself, you could consider a single statement (not paragraphs) on your contribution to the problem such as: I have made mistakes and have not been the husband I could have been to my W. But I am now committed to do all I can to save my marriage with W and be the parents to Son that I know we can be.

Again, keep it short.

And as I am relearning, with advice, take what you want and leave the rest. You get a lot of good advice from posters on your thread.

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In addition to keeping it short, sweet and FOCUSED, it is important to remember the purpose of the letter. It is not about what kind of husband you were or weren't; but about her affair. It is exposure of an affair. The kind of husband you are has no more relevance to her affair than the weather in Dimmit, Texas.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


BTinTrouble #2380043 05/26/10 07:34 PM
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And BT, on the topic of W taking OM as a roommate, this is not a good development. I don't believe I saw that info in previous posts.

But for some reason, I am guessing from the tone in your letter that you may have known this tidbit of info for a while but have not shared it on MB until now. I could be wrong, maybe she shared it with you just today, but that is my gut.

If so, consider why you might not have shared that piece. It created quite a reaction from others on your thread. As it should have. Were you fearful of what sharing it might have caused other posters to say...which they did say anyways?

Without all the pieces to your story, it is hard to help. But this is a good place to get your learning on.

Get the info on the VAR. If nothing, still send the letters and make calls. And if she still wants to move in with OM...game on.

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I am nearly positive I mentioned the part of her saying she wanted her and OM to be roommates sometime prior. I got told it about 2 or 3 weeks ago.

I was not intentionally hiding it, I havent searched yet to see if I did in fact neglect to post it. If I didnt, it was not intentional.

Ok, I get it on the exposure, and I definately get it that I am going to do it no matter what, that the VAR just might give me more, but that I dont in fact need more. I will have it sent out before she gets back.

I will also be talking to OM the day I send it out. I will probably call him and ask him to come to my house and meet him in the driveway. I get the idea's about the pistol visable etc. I fully intend to be calm, concise, and most of all CLEAR in my statement. I want to clarify completely my stance and his choices, how they will affect my family, and what the repercussions will be. I dont need to threaten him at all, nor is he worth any angry outbursts. I dont intend to kill him or anything.

Ok, Mel, the idea about this MC and dumping him and calling SH is something I have already been considering. This MC isnt really doing much. Its neat that he is free (to us at least) and all, but its still costing us time, and that is not very neat. W needs exposure so that she can get SEVERAL lights on her fantasy world to maybe open her eyes to what it really is.

Her father is the only person who I HAVE to send a letter to as he has no phone or internet at this time. I plan to send him a check with the request that he use the money to activate some sort of phone, as his daughter needs him to be available.

Checking intelius and pipl now for OM info. Might have a hit.


Lifelong recovery never ends.

BTinTrouble #2380294 05/27/10 07:38 AM
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BT, i do not think you did mention your WW (sorry but she definitely is at least wayward thinking) wanting to room with the OM until your letter post and i was hoping that it was not the case. And i do not remeber reading about camping this weekend either but maybe i missed it.

BT if you do not do something RIGHT NOW, do not even wait until you listen to the VAR your wife is going to be camping this weekend WITH YOUR SON AND THE OM and you can bet your sweet booty on that.

I agree with MaiMai, why don't you just rent them a room yourself.

Find out who the OMW is somehow today if possible!!!!!!!!


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I could never understand how a man, and I use that term lightly, could let their child be exposed to a stranger, while the person expected to protect them, the WS, is in no mental position to make good decisions.

Do you know BT that some OM aren't really interested in the married women, but really her children?

If you allow your child to go 'camping' without you to protect him, you are no father.

BTinTrouble #2380322 05/27/10 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
II will also be talking to OM the day I send it out. I will probably call him and ask him to come to my house and meet him in the driveway. I get the idea's about the pistol visable etc. I fully intend to be calm, concise, and most of all CLEAR in my statement. I want to clarify completely my stance and his choices, how they will affect my family, and what the repercussions will be. I dont need to threaten him at all, nor is he worth any angry outbursts. I dont intend to kill him or anything.

BT, lets talk about this. The OM needs to be told what his "choices" are: if he doesn't leave your family alone then HELL IS COMING. Tell him he is to never ever contact your wife again or set foot on your property. Period. Tell him you are aware this is an affair [don't ASK, just tell him you know] and that if this comes to divorce, he will named as grounds and called into court to give testimony under oath about his adultery.

I need you to CALL his wife immediately after this meeting, so please do what you have to do to find her. You must find her, BT.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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