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Originally Posted By: ElunaInNC
I want to have hope and faith, but each day I feel more anger and bitterness even though I can find no reason not to try saving my marriage. This hurts so much, and I have no idea how to handle it. Is this anger and pain ever going to stop building? Does it ever really get better?


Yes and No.

Yes, with lots of work and intense commitment, your anger and pain may stop building and it might get better.

You need to have a plan or else no, it will not stop building and will most likely get worse.

Is OW married and if so, did you expose to OWH? (Sorry if you've mentioned this but I've missed it.) I came here trying to rebuild trust but discovered (after calling the radio show) that we needed to expose to OWH for several reasons.

The best way for you to get a plan would be to call for MB MC via phone counseling. If $195 per session is beyond your realm, they have renewed the live radio call in show and that would be something you (and your H) could do together. That's what helped us and it only cost an hour of time and a little lost sleep due to anxiety the night before.

I'm late for work but I'm sure others will help you find both resources if you need help.

Sorry I can't post during daytime hours but I'll check in tonight. In the meantime, feel free to read my story linked to my sig line.

Best wishes to you as you attempt to recover,
Ace


FWH/BW (me)57+ M:36+ yr.
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Originally Posted By: ElunaInNC
How will I know when we are in recovery? When did you consider your marriage in recovery?


It wasn't a sudden "eureka" moment as much as many actions over time. My FWH showed consistent remorse and was willing to do anything I asked to help me.

Has your WH given you the NC letter yet? I am a little concerned that you said he was 'sitting down this weekend to draft' it. Writing the NC letter shouldn't take much more than 5 minutes.


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Since we only have one computer currently, his draft is here with me at the moment. It looks to be alot of copy and paste.


"(OP), I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that (BS) did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay (BS) for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she's been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely,
(WS)

The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly my spouse, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I've caused my family. I am going to work hard to be the best husband/wife that he/she deserves.

Because of the terrible offense to my spouse and the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. Please also respect my wish that you not attempt to contact me in any way at any time.

My spouse has all the details of our relationship and he/she will also be told of any attempts at contact.

Sincerely,

[name here] "


This is his draft.


Me - BS
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Originally Posted By: ElunaInNC
Since we only have one computer currently, his draft is here with me at the moment. It looks to be alot of copy and paste.


"(OP), I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that (BS) did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay (BS) for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she's been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely,
(WS)

The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly my spouse, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I've caused my family. I am going to work hard to be the best husband/wife that he/she deserves.

Because of the terrible offense to my spouse and the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. Please also respect my wish that you not attempt to contact me in any way at any time.

My spouse has all the details of our relationship and he/she will also be told of any attempts at contact.

Sincerely,

[name here] "


This is his draft.


Why hasn't it been sent?


D-Day 2-10-2009
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We got in a fight while he was typing it up. That fight lasted most of the evening and culminated with me having a rum induced hangover this morning.


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Discovery 3/26/10
NC letter mailed 5/27/10
NC letter recieved 5/29/10
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Originally Posted By: ElunaInNC
We got in a fight while he was typing it up. That fight lasted most of the evening and culminated with me having a rum induced hangover this morning.

That's why you need a solid plan and vision for your recovery, Eluna. It's hard work to squelch a fight with your H but it's almost harder to fight alone when one spouse refuses to engage in (or prolong) the conflict.

Getting and keeping the big picture vision of your marriage recovery will help suppress angry outbursts that often sabotage early recoveries. I hope that makes some sense.

Ace


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Ok he exposed to his boss this morning.

As far as the NC letter: he has agreed to write by hand so that she has no question that it is coming from him. We did not get around to it last night, simply because he spent most of the evening looking after our son because the hangover I thought I had turned out to be a fever frown

We have a counseling session this afternoon.


Me - BS
Him - WS
Discovery 3/26/10
NC letter mailed 5/27/10
NC letter recieved 5/29/10
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Recovery may not be an option. Seriously looking a plan B/D
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Originally Posted By: ElunaInNC
Ok he exposed to his boss this morning.

As far as the NC letter: he has agreed to write by hand so that she has no question that it is coming from him. We did not get around to it last night, simply because he spent most of the evening looking after our son because the hangover I thought I had turned out to be a fever frown

We have a counseling session this afternoon.


Good idea to hand write the NC letter. My FWH emailed the first one and because he was careful NOT to make his typical typos, OW thought I had written and sent it.

He handwrote the one that made a difference nearly 4 months later and then she sincerely appologized to me....FINALLY! I didn't expect that but it was nice and helped with closure.

Two suggestions:

Bite your tongue when the AOs start to rear their ugly heads. Even if he starts the argument, YOU can end it by (calmly and softly) refusing to engage. (I know...easier said than done.)

Lay off the bottle when stress rises. You need all your wits about you to deal with things, especially helping your F?WH defog. He seems to be doing fine but YOUR self-induced foggy brain will only lead to problems.

Oops..I lied but this third suggestion is one I (and others) mentioned before: read all you can here, buy/order SAA, FIL/SIL, HNHN and LB books, and call for help with your plan for recovery (either call the MB MC center or the live radio show).

Keep posting, Euluna...you can do this. You seem to have a head start over many but you must keep diligent and not become complacent.

Best wishes in all your efforts,
Ace

Last edited by _Ace_; 05/25/10 09:57 AM. Reason: to say that it's been nearly 4 years since our D-day #1 and we have MC this afternoon, too! It takes long-term commitment to recover but we're on our way...

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Eluna,

Of course your FWH is going to vary between depression and happiness.

Of course you're going to feel really angry and a lot of hurt.

And then you're not. And then you are.

At first, you felt real fear on DDay...huge...so the hurt was just a whimper in it.

So it was for your FWH, too...his huge fear of losing you.

Your fear of losing him.

When really, you both were afraid of losing the marriage.

You are doing fantastic in your choices...even though you feel angry, resentful, furious, frustrated and hurt...you don't react to it (for the most part). You use your mind to figure out how else to verify the truth.

Inspirational, Eluna. Truly.

Now, don't over do your doing...part of redemption is your FWH acting transparent...so you don't call and check up on him...he calls to inform you...two or three times a day...and always if there is a change in plan from where he thought he'd be to where he really is...or is doing.

That's for him...he has to rebuild trust in himself, too, as well as your trust. Give him room to do that. You're a super capable, clear-thinking woman, seems to me. Give him room to redeem, too.

How long did the A last?

You're going to get more angry, btw, as you come to really trust you're not losing him...because you didn't do anything to make him choose to have an A. That's reasonable and understandable, 'k? Don't fight with him.

Write out your anger in "I" statements...own your anger. Part of the process of personal recovery is to not take on any responsibility for his choice to have an A...and later, when NC is fully verified, he's through withdrawal, and you're questions have all been answered, and he knows exactly why he chose to have an A...then you work on issues pre-A in the marriage, the environment, 'k?

I like how you're not hot-headed unless you have a fever. smile

Ask him to make a list of Extraordinary Precautions...where he won't confide intimately about the marriage or his stuff with any member of the opposite sex. Where he will not email others without cc'ing you (non-work related)...nor will you. You're a team...you are both for the marriage...even when you don't feel like treating your spouse well.

Understand you cannot make him feel your pain...it's truly indescribable...he cannot have your experience, walk in your shoes. He has to comprehend the depths of it over time...share your triggers with him so he is with you through them...even though he cannot undo them, ever.

Make sure to get in those 20 hours of UA time...I found RC activities were the best for that...where you have fun together, get to know each other as the allies you really are...each half of the union...instead of enemies (he had to make you the bad guy to justify his horrific choice...and you know you see him as the enemy because he attacked the marriage with an A)...

Takes time, persistence, endurance...and talk about EPs because that's what his biodad lacked...no boundaries, no boundary enforcements. He can never be like his biodad if he makes different choices.

As for real or not real...he has coached himself in fantasy...so what is reality and what he thinks it is will vary...he truly fears you "abandoning" him above all else...the more days/weeks/months that go by that you choose to recover, the less that fear is there...so yes, he might hide, revert, deceive...when he feels safer.

Don't know. Won't know until you get there. Your job is to learn a lot so that you decide what you'll do if/when...and you already did that...you chose to stay and try to recover. You make great choices. Doesn't mean you make the same ones, over time...depends on your own boundaries and their enforcements.

LA

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Originally Posted By: ElunaInNC
We have a counseling session this afternoon.


Hey Eluna,

How did MC go?

Ace


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LA

The affair lasted just under 3 months before he ended.

Ace,

MC was ok yesterday. I felt we were making some headway. Even decided to stop going week to week and start every 2 weeks.

And then last night, another trigger. My husband is a gamer, and part of us drifting apart was the time he spent gaming. When we got ready for bed last night I went and took a shower. He mentioned that he wanted to game on my laptop, so I saw no problem. After I got out of the shower, I figured he would wrap it up and go on to sleep. Instead I woke back up around 1 am and he was still gaming. I got really upset about it, could not even go back to sleep and when I did I had nightmares all night.

I told him that those actions made me feel abandoned, since that is how I had felt when he was always on the computer prior to D-Day. And that it really hurt me. So now we are starting to work on this issue, along with all the others. UGHHHHHHHH.

For me it is one thing if he is online playing for an hour or so, but 4-5 hours of gaming is too much. Especially when he spent the entire day complaining about how exhausted he was and that our alarm goes off at 5:30 frown That was time we could have been snuggled up together, or if he had gotten offline before I went to sleep, time we could have spent together.

And before anyone asks, since I was sleeping while he was on the computer, I checked the KL this morning. The only activity was his game.


Me - BS
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Discovery 3/26/10
NC letter mailed 5/27/10
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Did you tell him that you wanted him to come to bed?
"Why don't you play (game) while I finish getting ready for bed? It should take me about 45 minutes. Sound good?"

Also maybe talk to him at somepoint while he is not gaming and ask if you too can come up with a reasonable amount of time for him to game in a day/week. That you two should have your UA time before he games. Or he gets a certain time slot each night to game so you both can plan around it.

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Time slots are have been discussed for each of us. However those discussions have revolved around placing them into our "contract."

As far as telling him I wanted him to come to bed, the problem is that he was playing his game on the laptop in bed beside me frown So the only thing I could tell him at that point was to put the computer away and cut the lights off.


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NC letter recieved 5/29/10
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He sat down and wrote the NC letter out by hand last night. I have it in my purse to ensure she gets it. He has pointed out her car, so I think I will take a friend and have them put it on her windshield.

I would have mailed it, but he does not know her mailing address.

Last edited by ElunaInNC; 05/27/10 07:03 AM.

Me - BS
Him - WS
Discovery 3/26/10
NC letter mailed 5/27/10
NC letter recieved 5/29/10
My Thread

Recovery may not be an option. Seriously looking a plan B/D
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Originally Posted By: ElunaInNC
He sat down and wrote the NC letter out by hand last night. I have it in my purse to ensure she gets it. He has pointed out her car, so I think I will take a friend and have them put it on her windshield.

I would have mailed it, but he does not know her mailing address.


Eluna,

Here's a suggestion. Make time to find her mailing address so you can send it with a return receipt required. That way you will get a little green card with a signature stating that she (or whoever lives at that address) received it.

You seem to be trusting your H during a time when he may not be trustworthy. It's only been 2 months and in my experience that's way too soon.

Worst case scenario is that he points out the wrong car on purpose. Best case scenario is that you receive a green card assuring you she's received it, accepts it and you're able to begin rebuiding trust.

In between is the possibility that your H mistakes someone else's car for hers and you never find out. (Plus OW will never receive the NC letter.)

Put her name in www.Zabasearch.com and try all the cities she might live in.

Put her phone number in www.whitepages.com and use the "reverse look up" feature.

Pay for www.intellius.com to do an extensive search to find her work or home address.

If you don't have one, get a www.Classmates.com account and go to her school section where they usually list everyone and often have a segment where it says "what are they doing now"? That's how I eventually found OWH's WORK address and then phone number across the country.

Sorry I can't lurk or post during the daytime but I am praying that you will take/make time to send this NC letter directly to OW with proof that she received it. You can't know if she reads it or not, but at least you can look at the card when things get tough and have something tangible to help you overcome. I did not realize it at first, but that little card helped me in the early days of recovery.

Regarding your H's possible addiction to gaming, that could be an area that spells trouble without your knowing it. My H's EA started in online gaming through their chat feature. That's how I discovered D-Day #4....went into the history and saw all the hours he was spending gaming (when he said he only spent a few minutes). That was 6 months (and 2 more D-Days) after D-Day #1.

Your H needs to earn your trust, Eulana. Giving it to him prematurely could set you up for multiple D-Days like I suffered because that's exactly what I did (did not know about MB until well after D-Day #4 ~ actually didn't know that D-Day #4 was a D-Day until much later when our MC said that if WH was looking for OW through playing games, it was a D-Day when I discovered him lying. WH's intent was to find her and try to resist her, and even if she wasn't there, his intent and subsequent lying was why it was classified as a D-Day for me by our MC.)

Hope this helps, and I trust others will share their experiences, too.

Ace

P.S. ETA: OW had told me that they went to her H's hometown on vacation, plus she told me what he did for a living while we were trying to be friends. That's how I knew what to look for on that Classmates account list of "where are they now?".

Last edited by _Ace_; 05/27/10 08:49 AM. Reason: to show one benefit of my trying to be OW's friend

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I hope you made a photocopy of the letter, Eluna. If you read my suggestions too late (and a friend has already dropped off the letter on A car ~ maybe the correct one, maybe not), it's not too late to mail a copy to her at her work address ~ which your H must know if he pointed out her car.

If he pointed it out at her apt. then you can find her address/unit number by approaching the manager. They are bound by privacy laws but some managers are bored and seeking drama and often have loose lips and willingness to help. You'd be amazed at the odd ways you can find out information.

If nothing else, have a Private Investigator find out for you....you seem to have plenty of tips to make it happen. Keep a copy of his handwritten NC and clip it to the green card when it arrives. I kept all my stuff in my 'evidence box' in case we ever went to Plan D and I needed it for court.

Praying for you,
Ace


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Ace,

Actually I have already gone on intellius and found her information. I had just been trying to decide on whether to return receipt or not.

As far as gaming, we are currently talking about my WH limiting his gaming to the console units (Xbox and Wii) , which are mainly 1-2 player games, not MMOs. Although there are some console multi-player games, his current console games of choice are not.


Me - BS
Him - WS
Discovery 3/26/10
NC letter mailed 5/27/10
NC letter recieved 5/29/10
My Thread

Recovery may not be an option. Seriously looking a plan B/D
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Originally Posted By: ElunaInNC
Ace,

Actually I have already gone on intellius and found her information. I had just been trying to decide on whether to return receipt or not.


Just curious...why would you NOT request a return receipt?

Ace


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It was not that I would not, it was that the thought had just occurred to me. So I was going back and forth on if I could trust the PO to ensure she got it. That was all.


Thanks for all the advice. It is my break time so I am going to get this ready and head to the PO to mail it.


Me - BS
Him - WS
Discovery 3/26/10
NC letter mailed 5/27/10
NC letter recieved 5/29/10
My Thread

Recovery may not be an option. Seriously looking a plan B/D
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Originally Posted By: ElunaInNC

Thanks for all the advice. It is my break time so I am going to get this ready and head to the PO to mail it.


Good for you! grin

Keep us posted on your progress.

Ace


FWH/BW (me)57+ M:36+ yr.
4 D-Days: Jun-Nov 06 E/PA~OW#2 (OW#1 2000)
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