Your husband has defecated on his relationship with his son.

IF your husband wants to fix that, then that is your HUSBAND'S job to fix, not yours.

It will kill you and destroy you to try to expend the cost of fixing it yourself, and you will not succeed. Plus, you will screw up your son.

YOU -- CAN -- NOT -- FIX -- THIS -- FOR -- YOUR -- SON. What you can do is protect him from the evil man who is rejecting the son he fathered by rejecting that son's family and mother.

It will NOT destroy your son for him to honestly face his emotions to the fact that his father destroyed his life. However, it could destroy your son to continue to be subjected to that abusive man, and it could really screw your son up for you to try to encourage him to maintain a relationship with someone who is making MASSIVE WITHDRAWALS from your son's Love Bank.

Do not plant in your son's head the idea that he should indefinitely Plan A his father. We all know what an indefinite Plan A does to your health and mind.

Markos, the son should not Plan A at all. He needs to be very straightforward with his father about his feelings. It may get through his thick fog to hear how disgusted his own children are.

I thoroughly agree.

I just want the mother to understand that the traditional belief our culture has of the value of encouraging children to have a "good" relationship with their parents, no matter what, is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

I put it in marriage builders terms to try to get the point across about why it's wrong. Attempting to encourage the child to keep the doors open, mend the relationship, etc., is essentially encouraging them to Plan A, and we know what Plan A does to a person.

Father has an account in Son's Love Bank. It is overdrawn. SON should make the decision about what to do about that. Sounds like he has pretty healthy emotions that will lead him to protect himself, unless some do-gooder "divorce recovery" expert comes around lying to him and telling him his father still loves him or something similar, or telling him how to feel.

I lived it. Success for me was getting away from my wayward mother, for life.

I so agree! And I spoke to her on the phone yesterday about this. It is horrendous to try to whitewash a parents crime to make the parent seem to be something they are not to a child. That just teaches the child dishonesty and leaves them vulnerable and unprepared for corruption.

Ohhh {{{{{{HopeE}}}}}

I am so sorry that you are going through this and the I understand the pain you are feeling. My WH sent me a pretty awful email after the big exposure that I did.
I have been in plan B for 2 months now, WH continues to try and occasionally send me messages. I stay dark.
I have had a recent breakthrough and have actually made it 3 days in a row without any tears.
So I have to say that pln B does get better for yourself, it gives you some breathing room, and allows you to think a little clearer.
My WH also re-wrote our history, their guilt is so immense that they some how need to justify what they are doing and that seems to be the only way. It s*cks!! Bottom line is that there is no justification and never will be.

Remember pln B is for YOU. I cannot tell you that WH will all of a sudden lose his alien and come home. That is not what this is about. It is about you recovering yourself. Mark, Scotty, Pep, Hope, and Nesre have to continue beating me over the head with 2x4's to remain dark and protect myself. It is slowing getting better. I am re-building MY life, according to what I want. It is sad, but I am re-building without WH.

I don't know what the future holds, I can only control myself and what I do, and what I want out of life, and how I behave. So that is what I am basing my next steps on.

Does that make it any easier??? NO, but I have come to the conclusion that it simply is.

You need to focus on being the healthiest you possible, that way you are there for your children. Protect them and love them; allow them to determine for themselves what is going on. You don't need to bad mouth WH, but tell the simple truth. Your children will come to their own conclusions. Just protect them from WH fogginess. Let them know that they are loved no matter what and that you will always be there for them.

Again, I wish I could make it better for the BS's all over this forum and for myself. Unfortunately the waywards have destroyed themselves and their families in pursuit of their selfishness. Our WH's may or may not return, but I have stopped wishing and hoping for that. I am forcing myself to put one foot in front of the other; I hope that you are able to find some peace with that thought.

I sometimes feel that is more than I can bare. Today has been horrible...I'm walking around like a zombie and forcing myself to go through the motions. I seriously lovebusted DD14 this morning. I had to apologize. I don't want to hurt her with my words, but the anger just came out. I have told her about the evidence and what I know.

I'm sure H is spinning it big time and of course she wants to believe him...I mean I wanted and did believe him for awhile, so I imagine it is worse for her. I don't want her to resent me. I think she's talking to dad and erasing text messages. She really talks to him more than me. I hope I can endure this process.

Should I present the evidence to my children or just make the statement. I know he's telling them I'm crazy.... Especially dd14.

I don't know that you have to show her the evidence. You sat her down and explained it all right? You told her that you are doing this this way because you are trying to protect yourself and your family. Have you told her that you would LOVE it if WH came home and you could be a family again. That you have certain conditions? I have explained it all to my DSx2. They GET IT. I seriously think that they get it better than WH.

She is Daddy's little girl. I am sure that she wants to believe that he hasn't done this. You KNOW he HAS. I would just have a good talk with her and tell her what everything is all about. Just remember that your WH WILL hear all about it. Don't give away any intel, but DO be HONEST. Also, let her know that she is still your child and as such, she doesn't need to parent her brothers. You will take care of them. Her job is to make this as easy on you as possible by taking care of herself.

Yes, I did explain those things to her and let her know that daddy is welcomed back home under my condition. I'm sure he's telling her how crazy I am and that "I'm ruining people's lives with my lies." He tells them that he has done nothing wrong.

I guess time will tell. If he stays with OW, he can only hide it from them for so long. I don't think he will take the kids this summer for a month. I don't care as I don't think I could be away from them for that long....but I hate it for them. They're barely getting to see him as it is. I know my boys are so hurt; I see it in them everyday.

Feeling a little better this evening. DS11 tried to call daddy, but no answer. My boys told me that H said if they can call me everyday, then they can call him everyday. Really? Why can't he call his own children? What a baby!!!!

The truth is he doesn't care whether he talks to them or not.

He could call DD's phone, home phone. The boys told me that he's afraid of who might answer. Please

If I would stop imagining OW and husband together, i would be doing so much better....that's when I cry the most. I'm going to counselor the Tuesday after next.

Awesome quoted scripture, ML...these same verses helped me through PB and hope...whether or not your M heals, they will help you too.


((((hugs)))

IMHO, your DD is old enough for you to present the evidence to her...your H will try to deny it but if you remind her of what the PI found, she will eventually see him for the lear that he is.

Thanks for the encouragement. This morning I feel better. I can see why plan B is so important for me emotionally. That text really hurt me and hurled me into another depression for a few days. That just proves that I can't be in contact with him.

My everyday question??? How can he be away from them after being with them everyday of their lives? Was I that miserable to live with? He doesn't even call them. My parents are leaving on Monday and will be back the following week. I'm a little nervous about that. I need to finish getting WH's things packed...still not finished and I don't want to give him a reason to even go in the garage. A friend is coming over Sunday to change the locks and set my TV to regular channels. I'm trying to cut costs and dish is the first to go. My kis are not thrilled about it, but I have to make some financial changes.

I'm so looking forward to Summer and some healing.

How can he be away from them after being with them every day?


He can because things are not about anyone else right now - only about HIM.

Affairs are selfish in nature. Back earlier in the thread we talked about how the affair isn't about the betrayed spouse, or the affair partner - it is about the wayward spouse.


Affairs really are about the WS, because they are a self-centered issue. Affairs begin with a desire to "have" something - and that something may not necessarily be exactly what you might believe it to be on the surface. Superficially, one might think an affair is about sexual or emotional (relational) gratification. They really can be much deeper or a lot LESS significant than this.

An affair's initial idea may have its inception of desire in any number of things - from a desire to have freedom; simply to be sexually gratified; an emotional connection with the AP; the taboo and secrecy and the excitement that offers in breaking the taboo; anger at the spouse; retribution for BS previous affairs; exit affairs; sexual addiction; sense of loneliness in the marriage; disconnection from the BS; entitlement; etc.

In that list - you don't really see that the AP plays a huge role, nor that the BS does either, except in the case of revenge affairs. Because the initial thought process in most cases of affairs

does NOT involve the betrayed spouse AT ALL.

Affairs don't have anything to do with the betrayed spouse. And furthermore, the other person in the affair might as well be any other person - as long as they come along at the right time and are open to the idea of involvement.

As far as blaming yourself, the BS is not to blame for an affair. The BS was not there when the WS chose to have the affair. The WS had every chance, as an adult, to sit down and discuss the ideas and issues with the BS - every chance. Whether the marriage was great, terrible, or average, the WS had the chance in EVERY CASE of an affair to sit and talk about the issues prior to engaging in an affair.

The fact is that WS do not choose to do this, because it would ruin the chances of indulging in the affair if they did talk calmly and rationally to the BS about their feelings and their issues. The WS does NOT want to ruin the chances of having an affair

because the WS is selfish, and the affair is something the WS WANTS.

When the BS does anything to interfere with the affair - the WS brands the BS as blameworthy, hateful, mean, crazy, or worse.

The selfishness of the WS is incredible to the outsider looking in. When those who understand affair behavior see this, it is so clear! Once the fog lifts, the WS does look back and can see this. The shame and remorse does emerge, and the WS has no idea how to explain the behavior.


I hope this helps you out somehow. Your WH just doesn't want to deal with what he sees right now as "someone else's life" - because for the time being he has completely separated himself from anything he DOESN'T WANT. He is in the most selfish place he will ever be in. It is all about him and what he wants. Be prepared for this, and when you deal with him, remember that this is the mindset of all WS.

And also remember, that this is probably why many affairs fail! Relationships do not succeed when you are in full taker-mode. The WS, well, let's just say that "taker" is in Warp Drive.


Schoolbus

The affair

That helps schoolbus. He did have conversations with me over the years about my weight, lack of admiration for him, etc. We haven't had sex in 2 plus years and he asked me, "didn't you get a clue after not having sex for years?" I guess I knew it was bad, but he kept saying he was impotent or he didn't want me to get pregnant.

I guess I just didn't get it. I'm certainly sorry now. He kept telling me " I told you all this would come to bite you in the butt."

Yes, that is all they are about. Themselves. The OP is marginal. It just happens to be available to do everything the WS wants them to. No wonder we often see how WS affair down. That is because they have to find OP who has a very low self esteem and that basically puts herself-himself last to fullfill the desires of the WS. It is only one way and that is, the WS is happy with OP till OP mirrows his needs.
WS has made a choice based on the fog.
If you read my thread you saw that I got into snooping pics of my H and his new friends and OW during a rowing turnament. I can only tell you that the way he was acting was just like a teenage boy.
So he chose to be with those people and act like he is 12 instead of being with his family.
Yes, he did. So did your H. He decided for now to be with OW, free from family and other things. For now he is happy this way. But as I write that is already changing. Everything changes adn what they are building is a house of cards. No foundation.
Keep envisioning what you want, not what you do not want.
I am sure you do not want to have your H and OW in mind, nor you want the A to continue.
nfortunately what we concentrate on the most happens especially if we visualize it all the time.
What you are doing by thinking of OW and your H is reinforcing that image into reality and making it stronger.
Think of what you want instead.
Think of you with your H, imagine yourself happy with him, picture him as a caring and loving person who wants to heal the M and be with you. picture what you want NOT what you do not.
I know you must think I am crazy, and that it is impossible for you to picture a loving and caring man. But if you can picture him with her you can certainly picture you with him.
Ask and it will be given to you. Even the imposible is possible when we have faith. Faith is this...knowing that everything is possible and nothing is hopeless. It is hopeles only in your imagination.
Stop fueling images of WH and OW. Every time you think of him with her, take her image away from the scene and put yourself there instead.
Blessing

Thanks for that......I'll try. I was looking at pics of myself today that my dad took on our outing....I still need to lose so much more weight.

Hope, are you drinking a lot of the following?
Soda, cool aid or gatorade or similar..
juice
whole milk

Do you eat any of the following on a daily basis?
ice cream
cakes
cookies
chips of all kids
more than 3 slices of bread products a day
more than one tortilla a day


I am a registered dietitian, just trying to see what you are doing, sometimes you just need to cut down on sme junk
blessing

I'm hardly eating any of those things because I've recently been diagnosed a diabetic. I am however drinking diet sodas. I've lost 60 lbs but I've halted. I'm trying to do weight watcher. Any hints would be greatly appreciated. I have 68 more lbs to go......seems like it will be forever.