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Still_Crazy #2381742 05/29/10 06:50 AM
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BT i also wanted to tell you that things are usually slow here on the weekends so don't think anyone has deserted you. Even though i signed on to check on you this morning.......

I promise these folks will help you through this if you listen to their advice.

Just keep breathing and taking care of yourself and that beautiful little boy of yours......

Still_Crazy #2381744 05/29/10 06:52 AM
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One of the hardest things that you will deal with right now, is yes, keeping your mouth shut from spewing your own frustrations at her.

It will take every fibre in you to not lovebust your emotions. Do not get into a pissing contest. Ignore anything that she says to try to bait you into one.


Here are some bits from the stick part of Plan A.
Quote
Offering forgiveness and understanding.

By this I mean .... suggesting to the confused foggy affair-addicted spouse that there is HOPE for the marriage even though what they are doing is awful ... there is a map leading to home

Often their thinking is thus: "It's too late now. I've done too much damage ... my spouse could never forgive me, so I might as well continue with the affair."

You, the sane spouse, need to squash that belief that they can never be forgiven for what they have done.
You do not need to forgive them right away, but offer them the hope of a future where all is forgiven.

You can word it something like this:

All of us do things we regret. When I think of some of my past mistakes, I am extremely grateful for having been forgiven by those I've hurt. I want to be in the position to offer you that same grace. I have been forgiven, so I understand what it feels like to be in a position where you hope forgiveness is possible. It is possible.
Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.


Quote
Plan A is often misunderstood as "acting nice"

excuse me acting "nice' in the face of an affair makes me want to puke

Plan A is taking control of one's self ...it is NOT "acting nice" ~as if~ there was no infidelity eating away at your family .... infidelity hurts like battery acid poured on your skin

am I right?

heII yes I am right

so you scared and panicky betrayed ~~~> SPEAK UP

tell the truth

"This affair hurts me. This affair is going to destroy our family. Let's get help."

If your spouse does something really thoughtless ... SPEAK UP.

"What you just said (did) hurts me terribly."

"I feel wounded by your affair."

"My heart aches for the love we used to share."

But be careful ... don't get needy or whiney or weepy ... those are love-busters

it's a fine line between telling the truth about what hurts ... and staying away from LB behaviors

ASK for help from the board

if you are unsure if what you are doing is correct... examine how much self control you have at any given moment ... and if you are feeling in control of yourself ... you are probably right on the money !

if you feel yourself losing control ... step away and re-group

Last edited by Vittoria; 05/29/10 07:21 AM. Reason: removed a line cuz I wrote opposite of what I was thinking, DUH!

M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA


Still_Crazy #2381745 05/29/10 06:58 AM
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Lil man is awake giving me kisses. Hes not very good at it yet

=D

I am going to the bank today when it opens to move money around.

Is there anyway to put it in an account linked to my debit card, but not hers?

I dont NEED the debit card, I just want her to not be able to freely access money right now.

Also, OMW doesnt want to tell OM that she knows yet, and while I disagree, I am not going to disrespect her decision at this time. So that is a major source of pressure that is not being brought to bear.

Lastly, WW mother and grandmother seem to be mostly in shock, sending texts to me saying, "there is nothing to do, God knows, we are praying and trusting in him."

I know there are many religious people on here, and I do not in any way intend to offend you guys, but I personally do not understand what I call the "head in the sand, do nothing, it will all go away, if anyone asks we are praying" idea.

Please help me understand this somehow, I dont want to DJ them, I am sure they think that is "helping" or something, I just dont know, I dont understand the mentality. Help...

I cannot, just CANNOT BELIEVE, that any alien could mind control my WW so badly that she is abandoning her son.

Unbelievable. She had terrible mothering instincts (in a good way), very protective, always reading stuff, watching him etc etc. Its like she doesnt care about him now. Me I can understand, obviously I am the villain here and all this is my fault (according to her), but her son...

I...

I guess I just dont understand.

Is that what living with meth addicts is like?


Lifelong recovery never ends.

BTinTrouble #2381749 05/29/10 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by BT
I said, you cant trust me? WW, you are abandoning your son to cheat on your husband. Let me put our son on the phone so you can explain to him why you arent home.
Now this I think was good. Let the consequences of the choices of the ES fall squarely on the shoulders of the WS. Make the whole battle cry one of family.
Originally Posted by BT
She said, he doesnt know, why would I talk to him, he doesnt know whats going on
So for her the solution is to not tell him and hope he doesn't ask so she can convince him that his daddy was a monster and she just had to get away from him...

What I actually find humorous these days is that when my wife and I are watching TV or a movie and one of the characters starts spouting this wayward alien fog babble crap, we sit there and laugh, look at each other and can even predict what is going to be said next. Even the Hollywood writers know this stuff, they just don't get the idea of being faithful as the ideal and any cheating being wrong.

BT, remain calm and don't wait for her to come home on Monday before getting yourself focused. She will likely be home much earlier than she thinks. Her good times are done for the weekend. She and OM have been busted, busted together, caught in the act, the fantasy has vaporized and now the love birds have to lay out the logic and justification together in order to even make this be OK for them to continue.

Trust me on this, the affair is doomed. The question now is whether or not she can find a reason to work on the marriage instead of living life on the run from reality. Be that reason, BT. Be her lighthouse. Be her hero. Be the place she can run to instead of away from.

I remember those lonely nights, BT. If I let myself focus on those dark days I can still feel the fear, the pain and the anger.

If you have a bible handy, read Psalm 102:1-11. Describes the lot of a BS pretty well, I think. But now read verse 12.

You will be OK, BT.

And Marsh and I are till thinking alike and SC is still seeing the same things too. You did not cause this. All those complaints and things she said about not loving you, the marriage being over and you being neglectful, controlling etc all have to do with her attempts to reconcile in her own inner self the two sides of this. She is married and is cheating on her husband.

Even alien WS logic can't make this the right thing to do. So they try to make it into something more palatable like a bad marriage that is already ended; they always use this idea that from their POV the marriage is over so they can feel better about what they are doing. They try to make the life of the BS so miserable that the BS files for divorce "He abandoned me. I didn't walk away." And they will constantly try to convince the BS that "this has nothing to do with OM/OW." If they can get themselves to believe that, they can continue and not feel like they need to be ashamed.

Eventually they will come to a place where they will say this isn't about OM; it's about us. Then they will say it isn't about us; it's about me. That is often the beginning of an awakening when they admit to themselves that what they are doing is purely selfish. Some soon after see how wrong this is but some others think being that selfish is perfectly alright. But at that instant they must make a decision to do right or to do wrong and even a WS alien can tell the difference at that point.

Mark

BTinTrouble #2381750 05/29/10 07:10 AM
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Yes unfortunately it is BT, she is only out to get her fix right now......

BTinTrouble #2381751 05/29/10 07:13 AM
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I personally don't know what it is like living with a meth addict. DrH says that an affair is an addiction and the people living in affairs are like drug addicts and I believe.

You have done very well. You can do this.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

“Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.”
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
Scotland #2381754 05/29/10 07:15 AM
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Great post Mark....

Read that one over BT....

BTinTrouble #2381759 05/29/10 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
Deputy said that well, the only definitive proof is if one of them admits to that, and we probably wont get that so we cant expect it.

I think they want to catch them, but I dont really care.

On top of that, he is a contractor, a temporary worker filling a temporary position, with a group that has already had 3 people fired out of I think 15-20 employees, and that company is ANXIOUS to avoid attention.

I dont plan to let them listen.

Morning BT,

Deputy is an idiot. Don't go soft on us BT, he is a contractor? You immediately write a letter to the top people as well as HR of the contracting company and expose to them, tell them you are considering legal action against their company and tell them you have the proof on tape.

SWW

BTinTrouble #2381765 05/29/10 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
Lastly, WW mother and grandmother seem to be mostly in shock, sending texts to me saying, "there is nothing to do, God knows, we are praying and trusting in him."

I know there are many religious people on here, and I do not in any way intend to offend you guys, but I personally do not understand what I call the "head in the sand, do nothing, it will all go away, if anyone asks we are praying" idea.

Please help me understand this somehow, I dont want to DJ them, I am sure they think that is "helping" or something, I just dont know, I dont understand the mentality. Help...

I guess I just dont understand.


BT,

I believe if you asked them they would not say they are sticking their heads in the sand.

I believe that we do all we can do and at a certain point, well, we have done all we can do. At that point we turn to the Lord and say, �Lord, I have done all I can do. From this point forward I am placing this in your hands. Only You are capable of solving this problem, I can�t. I need You and Your help, guidance and wisdom. Thank You.�

You are doing all you can and doing great, but you alone cannot change your WW�s heart. He can though and you would do well to include Him in on this if you are willing. This is a great opportunity for Spiritual growth BT if you are willing.

You asked the question, that is my personal thought on the matter.

SWW


BTinTrouble #2381768 05/29/10 07:48 AM
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Good luck to you today BT (or is it Sir BT now?) smile.

Many battles lay ahead of you. Remember that as you follow the advice on this thread to deal with your WW to save your M, her bahavior will be predictable, and your feelings and fears will be too, so keep reaching out for support here. We have been there and recognize your pain.

Slay those enemies with your awesomeness. When you don't feel awesome for yourself, lean on the awesomeness of your fatherhood.

Remember, you may not "feel" like you won the battle after an exchange with WW (even though you likely did but it just doesn't feel that way), you are here to win the war. Your convictions are very clear in your posts. You will make it through this.

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Thanks you guys, and thank you SWW for your post on God. I dont know that I can do that, I feel like I only just recently resolved anger and hate for him, not sure I can reach out to him with trust. Maybe...

Mark, as ever, thank you so much.

SWW, on the deputy, he wasnt saying he doesnt believe, he was just saying something about when you investigate something there are 5 categories of evidence, and the highest one is confession by guilty party.

I dont know what they might have asked, but I wont know, because OM admitted it to the Major last night, admitted he was with her, and when told "dont come back to work," OM responded with, "well, guess I am gonna enjoy my weekend then, g'night."

So now I have a USMC Major and a GS-13 Government Deputy to testify for me, in addition to the audio, phone records, and all the corraborating evidence from OMW who we mutually agreed to testify for eachother to identify the voices on the audio and other stuff, if it came to that.

I feel like I have enough even for a court.

Too bad its Mem Day weekend, and I cant call lawyers. I want to secure my house and do something to get temp sole custody for my son so she cant do anything to hurt him.

She can come, I can Plan A, but I dont trust her.
Not for a second. Not with my son, not with my property, not for anything.


Lifelong recovery never ends.

BTinTrouble #2381775 05/29/10 08:14 AM
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Ok, going to the bank now, any advice for when I get back on what to expect / think next?

I feel like the phone conversations werent NEARLY what is coming. She was trying to be very flippant and uncaring, but I could hear the edge of panic in her voice when she kept asking, "Who all did you tell?" I wonder if she is wondering if I got a hold of her dad.

I think when she gets home the sh^^ storm is REALLY gonna start. I dont know what I think now that she is choosing to stay out with him all weekend and abandon her son.

That hurts really deep, for me and our marriage, and me as a father...

I will hopefully be talking to her dad soon enough.

Will be back in an hour or so.


Lifelong recovery never ends.

BTinTrouble #2381780 05/29/10 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
Day 2...
She didnt come home last night.

That hurts a lot more than I thought it would.

She abandoned her son to stay out with him...

I wish I knew what happened to my wife. WW isnt her, she is an alien for sure. I hope to see my wife again someday. I miss her.

As much as it hurts, BT, you need to do this kind of thinking.

You need to stop blaming yourself for the hell you've been through, and start rethinking and rewriting your recent history together. You've been telling yourself (and accepting the lies that WW told you) that it has been all your fault, now you need to start telling yourself that it was the A that was causing the hell.

Here's a Do's and Don't list Mr. W brought here...

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

Print it out and carry it in your wallet so you can read it and reread it.


BTinTrouble #2381782 05/29/10 08:33 AM
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Quote
Lastly, WW mother and grandmother seem to be mostly in shock, sending texts to me saying, "there is nothing to do, God knows, we are praying and trusting in him."

I know there are many religious people on here, and I do not in any way intend to offend you guys, but I personally do not understand what I call the "head in the sand, do nothing, it will all go away, if anyone asks we are praying" idea.

Please help me understand this somehow, I dont want to DJ them, I am sure they think that is "helping" or something, I just dont know, I dont understand the mentality. Help...


BT, Be grateful WW's mother and grandmother ARE on your side. That is VERY VERY rare!

Just thank them very much for their support and their prayers. Their disapproval of your WW's A will suck a great deal of the fun out of her A.


BTinTrouble #2381784 05/29/10 08:42 AM
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Quote
Ok, going to the bank now, any advice for when I get back on what to expect / think next?


Start keeping a journal. You need to keep this in case you need to fight for custody.

Record the dates and times of events, but leave out any of your feelings or opinions.

Example: On May 28th at X time, WW left son w/ me to go camping w/ OM. Did not come home until May 31st at X time.

On May 29th, I took son to zoo/movie/park, On May 30th, I took son to church...

Also include the time she spends on the phone w/ OM while she is w/ your son. So watch her phone records.

Keep this journal hidden from WW. And don't let her find this thread! Erase your history on the computer when you leave this web site.


Marshmallow #2381785 05/29/10 08:43 AM
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You have got to get the OMW to let you tell the OM that his wife knows.

Because most likely the OM will throw your WW under the truck to scramble home to do damage control.

Most OM use WW's only for sex. They have no intention of giving up their BW. Hell, this OM will not dump a BW that keeps putting up with his crap.

Last edited by TheRoad; 05/29/10 08:46 AM.
BTinTrouble #2381788 05/29/10 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
I think when she gets home the sh^^ storm is REALLY gonna start. I dont know what I think now that she is choosing to stay out with him all weekend and abandon her son.

That hurts really deep, for me and our marriage, and me as a father...

I know. I was kind of afraid of that, it means this is a deeply ingrained emotional and physical affair. The best thing that can happen is if she is furious, because that will indicate that she has at least an ounce of shame over what she has done. It is far worse if she is just, "well, you did what you thought you had to do, doesn't change anything."

But again, you are taking all the right actions, you just can't control her responses. It is good the OM is out of a job, he won't be able to take care of her need for financial support.

I like Marsh's posts on the Do's and Dont's by the way. Very good stuff.

SWW

PS No Matter What, do NOT leave your house short of a deputy sheriff hauling you out. Stay in your marital bed, you did nothing wrong. Keep the VAR on you in case she gets the idea of filing a restraining order agianst you.

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Also...When your WW asks you why you moved your money, tell her you can not risk her putting your family's finacial sitch in jeopardy.


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If OMW hasn't yet revealled that to OM that she knows

AND

BOTH you and her want your spouses home and are willing to play along

THEN

Send OM a text saying:

"Is [OMW's first name] phone # _____ and email ______@yahoo.com??? If my wife isn't home by ___pm tonight I will be calling and sending your wife the nanny cam video of my bedroom last week. U have been warned."

Mr. W

edited to add: It would be better if OMW just called and told OM she knows where he is and what he's doing and he better get his butt home NOW. However, she likely wants to get her mind around the situation, prepare and have a face to face confrontation without him knowing she knows. Thus...the above suggestion.

Last edited by MrWondering; 05/29/10 09:16 AM.

FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
BTinTrouble #2381797 05/29/10 09:13 AM
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Hi BT,

You are really a model husband and father for doing the right things to attempt to kill this affair and protect your marriage and your family.

Marshmallow is exactly correct in stating the ways to act and not to react. I have had to involuntarily admit my wife to a hospital twice during our marriage for psychotic episodes. While it was not the same as an affair, her reactions were much the same as a WW's - hostility, blaming, etc. I just learned to endure that and to be suuportive by knowing that I did the right thing to protect her and us. In a short while her 'fog' lifted through proper medication and treatment.

I believe you can open a new account in your name (including debit card privileges), and withdraw most of the funds from your joint account to transfer to the new account. Your wife would not have access to this account. I had to do that once as well when my wife in one of her manic episodes became spendthrifty. You most likely know this now after your bank visit.

BT, for the rest of the weekend now while you gird yourself for the coming storm when she returns, what things can you do with your son for enjoyment? I think you need that now just to renew yourself. I can't remember how old your son is, but how about a baseball game (even a minor league game if there is a team nearby), a bike ride, an amusement park, a swimming pool, shop for and show him how to plant flowers or vegetables - anythings that will help reduce the stress and and provide an alternative of some enjoyment. Do you have a priest, minister or rabbi you know and trust and can talk to briefly this weekend just for face to face affirmation that you are not to blame for her potential reactions?

Just prayers and good luck BT.

By the way BT I am muddling through trying to raise my first garden in ten years, and this morning when I went out to water it I noticed a little green sphere about half an inch in diamiture that looks like a tomato....*S*. I am excited.

Tom



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