He's not acting strange at all. Then again, I didn't think he had been acting any differently for the past year either!! Obviously, what do I know?
The only email he has outside of our house is at work and it goes through his mom's desk, so email is not a problem.
He is a realtor, so he is constantly on the phone, constantly running errands/ driving all over the place. I think most of his conversations with OW were during the day (while I was at work).

the only thing that makes me think the A is actually over is OW was VERY P-Oed when I contacted her (by text) to see if something I found in my house was hers. SIL contacted her as well (without me knowing) and OW blew up at her, said some explatives, and then hung up. OW then called WH and told him if I (or SIL) contacted her again, she was pressing charges and also called me some very nasty explatives (I listened to his voicemail). If they were still together, she would not be so mad? I called her before I totally knew what was going on, when this first came to light (and she thought WH was leaving me for her) and she was more than happy to spill everything to me. And she was actually civil. Now that he's told her it's over, she is nasty. Do you think her change of attitude toward me is any indication that it's over?

Also, this "friend" of WH (that is the BIL of OW) hasn't contacted WH since the day he called OW to tell her it was over. That's also giving me some hope.

Are you going to MC? The A might be over, (keep snoopin) but that doesn't say he will find someone else!

My husband didn't expose my first EA, and within two months I found another EA. He learned his lesson and exposed my second A.

Are you guys reading together? So you both can improve on the marriage? If he is acting the same way during the A then he is still a wayward.

Yeah but saying it's over and actually going 100% NC are two very different things.

Many times even though the WSs may say "it's over", they still can't completely cut the OP off. Hence the A usually flares up again.

Lack of transparency is a good indicator that the WS hasn't completely gone NC. Which you can see is true in your case as you already have proof he has already lied about NC.

I can totally understand . When I first met my late wife it was apparent that she had some problems with drinking and emotional ones that caused problems with us.

I was going slowly but still we slept together so not slow enough. As far as the other things I was biding my time as I got to know her and built some trust.

Well she became pregoed and that as when I was going to deal with the problems because I knew if we were going to be together I would need to. At the same time during her exam she was diagnosed with cervical cancers o it became extremly hard to get her to stop drinking and her emotional state was agitated even more. If I had insisted she go to AA or I would leave she would have just drank and even more hurt to the child would happen. By my staying with her I kept the alcohol at bay and assured her I would not desert her.

The drinking started up again after the baby was born and it was another year before I had to leave to get her to stop.


During those first years it became very easy to allow some very bad behavior become common and accepted. It took two years of separation to come around and her to see what she had done to damage me and the marriageI guess it was what you would call a false recovery because although her drinking had ceased she never learned about herself and the triggers that caused the problems she had and relapsed into worse things when my youngest was 9, about 10 years later.

Why I am saying this is that recovery needs to be total and just because things might get a little better it doesn't mean anyone should stop working on thier marriage. The longer you let things slide the harder it is to correct them. Maintaining a marrige is hard, soulsearching constant work. Even the toughest of us can wear down and when things that could pull us together tear us apart we can go soft on what it takes to make it work. I know that you must be careful with your FIL being recently sick but his son is making a big mistake. In time your standing up for his sons marriage will be one of the best things you can do for him. Only you can judge when you can expose. My warning was to say don't wait to long. Your marriage must matter first or the details with others will get in the way of a healthy one.

Its simple but hard but you can do it and most certainly you will learn how much you deserve it in the proccess.

Praying for you guys.

WOW - I guess I need to make sure I REALLY need to know something before I ask. I have been asking WH how this whole A started and he would never tell me. I THOUGHT this was the one BIG question that once answered, I'd feel like I could make a step forward... WRONG !!!!! I asked him last night and he finally gave in. After he told me, all I could do was cry. It made me see what a slut OW is and what a sleeze WH could be. I was so sick in my stomach. I lost any respect that I had left for WH. I cried all night last night. Fought back tears at work all day today and now I feel so shaky that I can barely even type.
So, lesson learned ... that has got to be the LAST of my questions for him. Maybe I should just let my imagination run wild -- couldn't be much worse, right?

Then he proceeds to tell me that he is so frustrated with life in general that the only time he's happy is when the kids and I are gone and he can have some peace. WHAT???? I know he's mad that he got caught. He has several other personal issues that I think he needs desperately to sort out. But I am hoping that this was anger/embarrassment/guilt talking because I so very much want to work on this marriage.

On another note, MIL is awaiting the next phone bill, so I should see soon if there has been any contact.

How are you doing with Plan A?

Is plan A just to get them to end the A or is it a step for marriage recovery too? I feel like I am doing plan A, but a lot of the plan A stuff I felt like I was already doing. I do think the A is over (but really who knows... I didn't know it was going on for a year either).

As far as exposure goes, I'm having a hard time for several reasons. (And from reading other posts, I know vets on here don't like to help if you don't want to do nuclear exposure. So I am screwed.) For one, FIL's health. And two, ... am I too late to expose? It's 2 almost months since DDay. I do have a plan that if I find out he was lying when I see the phone records, I am going to all of his friends/family.

But now, I feel like I have another problem ... this is from my post the other day "Then he proceeds to tell me that he is so frustrated with life in general that the only time he's happy is when the kids and I are gone and he can have some peace. WHAT???? I know he's mad that he got caught. He has several other personal issues that I think he needs desperately to sort out. But I am hoping that this was anger/embarrassment/guilt talking because I so very much want to work on this marriage." Thiose words cut me to the core I feel that is killing me as much as the A itself.
He has no intention on ever MC, which even his mother thinks he could benefit from.
I feel like this life of mine is REALLY messed up. How did I get here?
Looking back to when the A started, our marriage itself was fine ... or so I thought. Other than the fact that I don't make enough money for his liking, he can't tell me what is/was wrong in our marriage. Am I too nice? I am a very nice person, always doing for others, always giving, never putting myself first (actually always putting myself last)... maybe I should have been a big B and I would get some respect. Maybe it's just time to face the fact that my marriage is over. I really don't know what else I can do and I've asked him and told him that I want to make things better than before ... but there's nothing he can tell me that he "needs". I want the two of us to fill out the EN questionnaire, but I don't think he'll do that either.
Maybe I should face the facts ...

Hang in there a bit, I know your discouraged and hurt but the weekends are slow and the real vets get on during the week.

The reason for nuclear exposure is emphasized because anything less ussually does not have the shock value to show an affair for what it really is.


Its much like a drug, a fantasy, an escape from reality that will damage both the BS and WS and the WS does not feel any pain while they are in the affair compared to the BS. Sp what your experiencing is not as black as it seems.

"Its nice to be important, but its more important to be nice" is a great saying and I think you should stay nice BTW. Its what you have to fight, the affair and what lead up to it, that you must have no mercy on. treating your husband well is why he loves you. Its the fact that he is not treating you right that needs to be addressed. So hang in thier and don't beat yourself up. Help is on the way.

Right now it seems that he is in withdrawl. He might just be beating himself up also and blaming you. He can recover from that. But if he doesn't get help it sounds like he might leave out of selfish frustration. Its not your fault. He made this mess and only he can get himself out of it. All you can do is show him the light. He has to make the decision, take responsibility and get his head around the fact that he is to blame for his own misery.

What you feel is common to anyone betrayed. We understand. Its a rollercoaster of desparation and self doubt inside. Right now know we care about you and your emotional health as well as we know with the right decsions and actions you guys can get your marriage back.

It takes time, and action, then more time for the actions to take effect. The only person you can teach is yourself right now, so step back and realize you are worth it no matter how this makes you feel. Then you can make decisions that re-enforce your self-essteem and attack the affair, not your spoiled,(at the moment), husband, because in the long run you will be attacking the actions and results of his affair, not him personnally.

Think of this like he has been seduced by his own selfishness and after the effect of the fantasy that has a effect in the brain like a drug he is going through withdrawl. You can have pity on his weakened state but do not let him justify his actions or he will flounder in this bullcrap and trick of his own mind. Just like a child who justifies his bad behavior and blames everyone else for how he feels because he has to pay the price for them.


But you remember you are a wonderfully created creature that does not deserve this and are learning how to protect that without useing or abuseing others. This is a lesson everyone has to learn in life that the rules and vows we take in marriage were put there to protect us and the relationship. How we respond to the rules reflect how we learn to love even when we think we know allready.

It will be hard but you will come through this and if you recover your marriage it will be better than before and stronger than ever.


There will be questions, some relevent and some that might not seem to be but people will be asking you more as time progresses. Answer them honestly and completly so everyone can get some ideas of what has occured and how we can help YOU. You first, thats how it has to be for now, untill he gets his head screwwed on straight.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2382072&page=1


This link has many dicussions and help and is set up for the new posters. It was set up by Scotty who is going though the process of restoring her marriage. Many others have contributed to it and I suggest you read all of it and the associated links.

Hang in there FH10

This is what I know to be true for WS (For being one myself)

1. We want to avoid our family because it will be easier for us to justify what we are doing (the A) when we see them happy, we get angry, upset, jealous, resentful, etc. SO the reason why he doesn't want to see you and the kids is because of this reason. Same reason why we don't like it when our BS is nice to us, because we feel bad on what we are doing, so we just get angry, that is why PLAN A is sooo important! So that the WS feels guilty all the time, and when the fog lifts they will realize that the best thing for them is right in front of them, their FAMILY!!)

2. We are very unhappy in our marriage because we know we are the ones ruining it. I think its soo hilarious that the WS will blame the BS for their unhappiness. Even if he tells you that the A is over, he is lying, we lie, again to justify what we are doing, to convince our self's that the only thing that can help us become happy is to have an A, but the BIG OL TRUTH about that is the only reason why we are unhappy in our marriage is because WE ARE having an A, and it is addiction. Isn't it funny when you hear all these people who say "I haven't been happy for years!" but yet the only person who is making themselves unhappy is them self? So they think having an A will FIX it, and guess what? It only DEEPENS there unhappiness.

3. WS LOVES to blame their unhappiness to there BS, we think it is their fault for letting us find someone else, we will think of every little thing that our spouse has done to us that made us feel bad. Letting them know that these were the reasons why we had an A, but in reality it is just another lie! WS are very good at lying to everyone, we are the best lires, want to know why? Because we do the biggest lie there is, and that is WE LIE TO OURSELVES! We literally self sabotage our marriage and life! WS are very selfish, until that FOG lifts we do not realize it.

That is why I think there is a BIG RED FLAG when you tell us that your husband doesn't want to spend time with you or the kids, he's still in the A. How long will you get your phone bill? You really need to expose this A if you want your marriage to recover. I really don't think him being at his fathers is going to help either, you need to have him move back in ASAP! Why did he leave? Did you kick him out or did he leave on his own?

Quoted for truth

Yes sapphire it is so true..
Great post

Thank you both for the information and inspiration. You both really know your stuff!

WH is still living here at home. The issue with FIL is that he just had a double lung transplant and his health is up and down. Right now he is back in the hospital.

The phone bill should be here any day -- as soon as MIL gets the business' mail. As long as WH doesn't get to it first. She doesn't carry the mailbox key -- he does.

I am awaiting another piece of the puzzle as I type this. WH was at an outing with a friend today (legit), so I took the kids to my mom's to visit/swim (1.5 hours away). WH thought I was staying over. He told me he was going out fishing tonight on the boat. He acted kind of strange on the phone with me this afternoon, so I decided to make a special trip back home. Guess what I find in our driveway??? OUR BOAT !!! I've tried to call him several times and no answer. (It is possible that he is somewhere that he isn't getting reception, but I think something else is going on) I've tried going through all his fishing stuff to see if he has any of it with him, but he has so much I don't know what's here and what's not. He doesn't know I am home so when he does call me back I plan on asking him how the boat is doing, etc, just playing like I am not even home.

I am sick, but thanks to your kind words and support, I WILL BE OK!!!

can you drive by ow's house??? Or get someone else to?

Ya , EXPOSE him TOMORROW!!!!

I don't know where she lives-- it's a neighboring town about 20 min away. I don't even know her name ... or believe me ... I would be going past her house daily.

Last night I had called WH 3 times and text once. Finally he calls me back. Admits he is not on the boat, but went fishing elsewhere. He said he was on his way home. I told him I was home. He says he figured I would not stay at my mom's because he "thinks" I don't trust him. PLEASE -- why would I trust him???? Anyway ... I met him at the door to see if he was really getting fishing stuff out of his car. Fishing gear, yes ... but he seemed awfully "clean" for having been fishing for 4 hours. Some things just didn't add up for me ... he never gives a time he'll be home when he goes out fishing ... earlier that day he said he would probably be home around 11p ... well, that was the time almost exactly ---- So in my mind with all of the other pieces to this puzzle, he could have been with OW, she probably worked a midnight shift, leaving her house at 10:30 ... so that's when he left her house too ... making him get to our house close to 11p.

Maybe I shouldn't have, but bright and early this morning, after thinking about all of this all night, I questioned him. Major LB! Of course he was ticked that I'd even think to question his actions/whereabouts.

MIL said the phone bill should be there tomorrow and she'll get it in the morning. I think I'm going to see if I can get her permission to make an online acct (or if I can even get all of the informaiton needed to get one) so I can check it constantly. This waiting a whole month is ridiculous.

ya i agree, you know what I wrote how WS LIE! Dont believe a word he is saying, if he got upset with you for asking questions where he might have been? red flag! Get that phone bill ASAP!! As soon as you see the evidence, DO NOT i repeat DO NOT confront your husband, get your exposed email ready to send out to EVERYONE, friends, family, co-workers, etc. Post it on facebook so everyone can see, make sure you give them SOME evidence no details of the A, just tell them what you have and show them a little piece of it so they know you are telling the truth. You HAVE to expose this! If you dont then you will never recover your M.

I'm sorry this is happening, but stay calm when you see the phone bill ok? just get on that computer and send send send!

Is there a reason that you aren't doing the GPS & VAR in his car that was suggested earlier in this thread?

My sister did the GPS (w/my help) within a couple days of suspecting an A. We were able to ascertain who OW was very shortly after and we knew where her WH was every second.

Questioning him only pushes him to take things further underground. I wouldn't be surprised if he had an affair phone by now.

FH,

I can't tell by your posts if you are confident that your H is actively involved in his A. Please let us reassure you it is definitely still ON. The red flags are too numerous to ignore.

To reiterate...you need to:
1) Install the GPS & VAR
2) Find out who OW is
3) Get your exposure list together

I understand you want to see the phone bill but I would go ahead and get going on #1, like, yesterday.

Every interaction between OW and your WH is allowing OW to get her claws further into your H and deposit more LB$ units.

You need to keep reminding yourself that your H is the equivalent of a crack addict and he needs your help right now.

Hi feelinghurt,

My sister SusieQ asked me to look in on your thread. I am very sorry for what you are going through now.

I think you said you are now in Plan A. So I am seeing a couple of things that you really need to do:

1) You must SNOOP everywhere - VAR, GPS, keylogger, the works. Do it today. Find out who OW is.

Hide every piece of evidence you find. Make copies and stash it at someone else's house.

2) Make notes of every detail about your husband's "disappearances", any suspicious activities. Also it may help to write down notes of his behavior toward you every day, so you can look back and see if there are changes and on what dates they occurred.

DO NOT make calls or texts asking him about his whereabouts.

Engage in light conversation - NO relationship talk. You CANNOT educate waywards, and I will assume he is still a wayward in an active affair because he is spouting fogbabble at you and not being considerate of your feelings. While having light conversation with him, you can casually inquire about his plans for the day. Don't go further than that, don't ask for details.

You need to learn to restrain yourself. If you feel the urge to question him about anything related to the A, excuse yourself and walk away, go somewhere for a short time. You WANT him to let down his guard a bit... so you can bust him big time.

Never, ever, ever reveal your snooping sources, to him or to anyone who could tell your WH. If he finds out about your snooping and confronts you, don't give anything away. Be very vague, change the subject, and ask him if he wants a cookie. You need to do reverse fogbabble, have you read up on that?

Again, I'm sorry you are here. But it seems like you are dragging things out by not being a snoophound. The sooner you can snoop everywhere you possibly can, the closer you'll be to the evidence you need to confront your WH on his ongoing A and do a nuclear exposure. But keep posting here so we can guide you through every step. Put your emotions aside and focus on what needs to be done - I know it's HARD, believe me, I literally forced my doctor to put me on ADs because I was barely functioning. But you can do it if you put your mind to it, and we are here to help you.

WOW A LOT has happened today. First of all MIL got the phone bill -- there were 2 more calls on it. SO, a LIE -- i gave him every chance to tell me even if she called begging him to come back and he constantly denies ANY contact.

Then I text OW's BIL (old friend of ours) asking for honesty regarding their status. He gave me all the information I was looking for. Name, address, even directions to her house incase I want to check up on him. He says he has always been against the A and felt he was as much a friend of mine as he was to WH, so I deserved to be told. He said he had been waiting for me to call. Too bad I was in Target when he called, so I really had to watch what I was saying. I guess she's a real piece of work -- he said "he(WH) doesn't know what he's getting into with this one!" GOOD FOR HIM!! Also said he THINKS it's still going on.

I don't have a FB account, but i made one just so I could look her up. she's nothing great -- I thought she'd be this beauty. Anyway, there was no mention of WH in her FB. Only thing said she was finally divorced Feb 28th -- so she had also been married for the whole year of the A.

MIL is going to tell FIL when he comes home from the hospital tomorrow. She said he will be livid and will call WH to come to their house immediately. MIL is so very angry. I asked her to have FIL wait until next week to confront WH. My parents will have my kids for the week while I finish work for the school year. Things will go smoother if kids don't have to be involved when the [censored] hits the fnan.

I am going to txt some of his friends tomorrow. What do I say for this exposure to his friends? Many of them I don't really know.

I have to confront him about these calls. I know I was advised not to, but I just want to see him squirm. I want him to know I am furious. And I want him to know my ability to find out whatever I need to but never reveal my source. Then he'll be nervous.

I was worried about him being "mad" for exposing, but then I thought, NO, I AM MAD and does he even care?

gosh, I feel like everyday has been DDay lately. So many big things have been happening. I am really sick. I've lost 20lbs since this started and I feel sick all of the time.

I know soon they will be smart enough to get a pay as you go phone ... just not yet.

Reading back through this, I think anger is setting in... I guess just another phase.