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HopefulButScared #2382719 05/31/10 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: HopefulButScared
SWW,

None that I know of. She was on anti-anxiety back when we had our first run of problems back in '01-'03. I've been on anti-depressants for five weeks, and they've helped immensely.

I don't know what is fueling this....

HBS


I would be willing to bet $50.00 right now that she will not go through with taking a poly. You are right there is something fueling this and she is not being honest with you.

My gut feeling from reading her rambling posts and her nutty actions, blame shifting etc.

SWW

sickwithworry #2382731 05/31/10 04:45 PM
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Wow, Simply wow....

W came to get more stuff about an hour ago, I asked again what was the plan with kids for the week. She said they'd be here tomorrow during the day with our day care gal. I said what about tomorrow night? She said we'd talk tomorrow. I said, No, what about tomorrow night?

She said we'd talk tomorrow. I said, "do you really believe it's in the kids' best interests to be schlepped around to Grandma's and wherever else instead of their own room and own beds in their own home???"

We'll talk tomorrow. She left.

I then called MIL, who I get along with very well, and tell her that my belief is that Dawn is going to fight bringing the kids home to sleep in their own beds, and is instead going to apparently displace them to grandma's or friends, or wherever else while we fight out who should live in the home.

She asked me how things got so bad, and I told her about W talking to our friends and fabricating stories about me being an addict. She said, "How in the world can you sit there and throw stones when you were the one spying on her and putting recorders and GPS's in her car?????

OMFG!

She then started talking about this program not being Marriage Builders, but Marriage DESTROYERS, filled with angry people who meddle in other peoples' lives. I asked her if she had been on the site, and she said no. Sigh....

So W is now using the tools that this site recommends (a site and program THAT SHE BROUGHT ME TO!!!!) to convince her family that I am a scumbag.

If this weren't so tragic, it would be high comedy....

HBS


Me 41
W 38

Married 10 years, together 13

3 Kids: DS5, DS2 and DD1
HopefulButScared #2382741 05/31/10 05:11 PM
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HBS, it may be meaningless to try, but this quote from Herbert Spencer is found in Appendix II of the book, "Alcoholics Anonymous." I have found it very helpful at times when confronted with people like your mother-in-law:
Quote:
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
Fred_in_VA #2382777 05/31/10 06:04 PM
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You better have a great lawyer!

She is going to have you removed!

I don't want to say to much, as I'm sure she is reading.... but you better CYA quickly tomorrow morning!





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
Fred_in_VA #2382779 05/31/10 06:07 PM
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You want to know what else is ironic about LoG throwing me under the bus to MIL about snooping on her with GPS and VAR????

Poster by W 5-21-10:

Originally Posted By: LionOrGazelle
BT-

I do think the VAR is a good idea. It will help you know something hopefully, one way or the other. We have IP cameras installed inside our home and did so for the oversight of our nanny (and we told each of them we had the cameras). But they are in the home, live, so either one of us can really log in anytime on each other. You can buy them with or without sound. You can log in online anywhere and watch/listen. You could always consider that.

Don't feel guilty about not trusting her. You are concerned about her actions. Do it, because you sound like you are doing it for the right reasons. If she is not having an EA and you find that out, then you can drop it again for now and focus on meeting her ENs and sending more time together.

If you find something, PA or EA, you can start the exposure, which I do agree is a good technique to end an affair should there be one.


And this on 5-21-10:

Originally Posted By: LionOrGazelle
VAR suggestions:

Olympus DS-30 Digital Voice Recorder
Expensive at $250 bucks. Online at Amazon.
Up to 68 hours of recording time; 30-hour battery life, optional AC adapter (if that could even be utilized and maybe so if not under the couch), and extension microphone optional.

Sony ICDP620 Digital Voice Recorder PC Compatible via USB
Just under $200 bucks. Also online at Amazon.
Supports up to 260 hours of recording time and uses two AAA batteries.

Olympus DS-40 Digital Voice Recorder
$150 bucks, again, at Amazon.
Up to 136 hours of recording time; 30-hour battery life.

I have not used any of them but they are out there. Now you can't drag your feet. Go buy two. smile

I logged onto my Verizon account. I can see every call, time, phone# and length. On the data side, I can see every date, time, Text # to/from, # to/from, sent/received. Of course, can't see content.

There are computer programs you can buy and install onto a cell phone you own (abiding by laws) that will track what you are looking for (records calls and/or sms texts and/or GPS locations dependign upon what you buy). Try sites like Webwatcher Mobile Spy Smartphone Monitoring or Flexispy (assuming she has the right phone). If she doesn't...it would not be out of the oridinary for a 15th month old to drop her incompatabile cell phone in the toilet (kids like toilets) thus requiring her to get a new "compatable" one.

It is just the truth you are after. I would not be angry if HBS used any tools on me. When we installed "nanny cams" our nannies all said they did not care - they had nothing to hide.

No more excuses.



Guess she didn't mean it.....

Originally Posted By: LionOrGazelle
I was told tonight that our mutual friend suspected HBS had a GPS and a VAR in my truck . . . Could care less . . . When I got home, I asked HBS to point them out and I removed them. I asked for the key. He gave it to me. I then asked if he had any other keys and he admitted he had one and gave that to me. I want to acknowldege that giving me the extra 2nd extra key was HONEST! I really appreciated that step he took. And I want to post it here so everyone knows he did overcome his fears and was honest. HBS...thank you.


At least she is being honest about now saying that she doesn't want me spying on her, why else demand the GPS, the VAR, and all keys to her car???


Me 41
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Married 10 years, together 13

3 Kids: DS5, DS2 and DD1
HopefulButScared #2382786 05/31/10 06:22 PM
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HBS, I hope you realize that you're in a war.

If you're not careful, she's going to hand you your a--.


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
HerPapaBear #2382798 05/31/10 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: tst
You better have a great lawyer!

She is going to have you removed!

I don't want to say to much, as I'm sure she is reading.... but you better CYA quickly tomorrow morning!


HBS, your wife is setting you up, friend. She has been building a case and since you jumped the gun on her and moved home, she is going to have you moved out. Do you have a good attorney?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


MelodyLane #2382800 05/31/10 06:39 PM
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Why does the name PSUBIKER keep popping into my mind...?


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
MelodyLane #2382804 05/31/10 06:43 PM
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She has no facts, they are made up, and yes, I do.


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3 Kids: DS5, DS2 and DD1
HopefulButScared #2382808 05/31/10 06:46 PM
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Soon after I began my study of MB, I came across the infidelity and the snooping aspect of MB and the SAA forum and I became concerned about whether my W was having an affair. Had I been new here, and had W not already been an active MB member, heres what I would have posted about her activity these past five months that made me nervous, asking for the advice of the forum.

All of these things are easily verified as true, and Id be surprised if W tried to deny any of them:

1. For years, W, who owns her own business in a small, private building we own, has worked 70 hours a week, often times til 10, 11, midnight or later.

2. We have very little sex (3-4 times a year), affection, conversation or intimacy, spend very little quality time together without the kids, and its been that way for years.

3. On at least two occasions in the past three years, I tried to talk to my W about how lonely I was, and the fact that we had no intimacy between us. I was told by W that between her job, her business groups, the kids etc, she had no time or emotional energy to address these issues, that I was way down the list.

4. Between January of 2010 and March, we did about a dozen session of traditional MC. In late March, W bought and began wearing a bunch of new, attractive (and more revealing) clothes without talking to me about it.

5. She did not bring up MB in our MC over that two month period, or that she had known of it but said nothing to me about it for years.

6. In late March/early April, W unilaterally stopped traditional MC with me, and then took off her wedding ring, and asked for a separation (April 1). I was stunned.

7. On April 8, she told me and our counselor about MB for the first time. We havent seen that counselor since.

8. She did not seem enthusiastic about the fact that I appeared willing to try the MB program, even telling me two days before we did the online seminar that she didnt think she could do it, because she didnt think I could just turn off my dishonesty.

9. We went through the program (April 16 and 17), but she refused to commit to it, saying I would never change. She told this forum that I lied to her within 10 minutes of finishing the seminar. For those who want the details of that lie, please ask. Then, that same night, she proceeded over the next several hours to shower, get made up and dressed and told me she was going out to a bar by herself, and further that she had gone out on her own several times over the last couple of months (never telling me) and that she used to do it before she met me, and that it was helping her regain her sense of self.

10. In the days that followed, W asked me with exasperation why I was interested in pursuing the MB program, seeming, to me, to be frustrated that I had embraced it.

11. W then told me she wanted me to move out of the house (@ April 20), that it was too hard for her to be in the same home with me, and that the separation for her was a bridge to divorce. (She did suggest that I live right next door, to be fair.) Between April 20-23, we had this email exchange on April 23rd:

W: I have not had an affair. But I have been presented with several opportunities, and they become harder and harder to turn away from. And I would rather have you hating me for leaving you than hating me for having an affair.

Me: Opportunities for an affair don't typically materialize out of nowhere. Does that mean you had/are having an emotional affair with someone? When was this? Are they still in your life? I would have preferred to ask you and talk to about this in person, but there are so few opportunities. I'm trying to sort so much stuff out....

W: This seems to be a very loaded question and I am not comfortable trying to address it. I don't have a problem with you asking but I don't think I am at a place in our relationship to try and respond right now. What I can say is that I am not having an affair and have not had one.

12. Between April 26-28, my wife had an email exchange with Dr. Harley as part of our seminar follow up, in which she rejected his advice that we not be separated, and that we should be living together to work the MB program for it to work.

These events describe my last five months. W shared virtually none of these facts with the forum in her posts these past six weeks. Nor, could I, 'cuz she was reading the forum. Instead, I went underground with Fred to get the advice I needed.

What would y'all (as ML would say) have told me as a newbie?????

Last edited by HopefulButScared; 05/31/10 07:25 PM.

Me 41
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HopefulButScared #2382811 05/31/10 06:51 PM
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I would have said it is likely that she is having an affair.

I am not sure it is safe for you to keep posting on this board HBS. I think you need to call an attorney.

SWW

HopefulButScared #2382812 05/31/10 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: HopefulButScared
What would y'all (as ML would say) have told me as a newbie?????


My advice would have been: MOVE HOME AND HIRE A PI!!

What seemed to set her off into the ozone was the suggestion from tst and myself that she take a polygraph.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


sickwithworry #2382813 05/31/10 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: sickwithworry
I would have said it is likely that she is having an affair.

I am not sure it is safe for you to keep posting on this board HBS. I think you need to call an attorney.

SWW


I agree with this. I think you are being gaslighted in order to cover up an affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


MelodyLane #2382820 05/31/10 06:58 PM
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I know I am at this point until proven otherwise, and she is underground. I sent her mom the links to her daughter recommending for others to use VAR's and GPS devices, as well as the one saying she wouldn't care if I used them on her. Gonna be sure she gets them.

Can we change/move this thread??

HBS


Me 41
W 38

Married 10 years, together 13

3 Kids: DS5, DS2 and DD1
HopefulButScared #2382825 05/31/10 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: HopefulButScared
I know I am at this point until proven otherwise, and she is underground. I sent her mom the links to her daughter recommending for others to use VAR's and GPS devices, as well as the one saying she wouldn't care if I used them on her. Gonna be sure she gets them.

Can we change/move this thread??

HBS


If we can find it, she prob can too. I am not sure what to say, don't want you to go away, but...


Maybe Mr. W who is a lawyer can weigh in here.

Do you have lawyer friends you could call tonight?

SWW

HopefulButScared #2382827 05/31/10 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: HopefulButScared
4. Between January of 2010 and March, we did about a dozen session of traditional MC. In late March, W bought and began wearing a bunch of new, attractive (and more revealing) clothes without talking to me about it.


8. She did not seem enthusiastic about the fact that I appeared willing to try the MB program, even telling me two days before we did the online seminar that she didnt think she could do it, because she didnt think I could just turn off my dishonesty.



What set off my red flags was her immediate and sudden reversal on her seeming committment to this program once you agreed to participate. That makes no sense. As soon as you became agreeable to working the program she came up with very vague, incomprehensible excuses why it would not work and why she must be "separated."

They made no sense to me and apparently it set off Dr Harley's red flags too, because he was also concerned about the possibility of an affair. He told your wife this.

Have you ever seen this quote from Dr Harley, who has been doing this now for 35 years?

Originally Posted By: Dr Harley

I've seen so many spouses lie about affairs, that when one spouse wants a separation, my best guess is that he or she is having an affair. I'm right almost every time.

Why would anyone need to be alone to sort things out? It makes much more sense to think that being separated makes it easier to be with their lover. Granted, there are many good reasons for a separation, such as physical or extreme mental abuse. But of all those I've seen separate, most have had lovers in the wings. here


Did you know this is how Dr Harley views requests for separation?





"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


HopefulButScared #2382831 05/31/10 07:14 PM
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By the way, attorney(s) are loaded for bear. And I hope she's reading this. If she wants a fight, when I've busted my ass to save this marriage for six weeks, moved out, been trashed on this forum with all my faults, when she's an angel, she's got one.

I hope I'm wrong, of course. I sent her an email at 5:30 saying, "Why are you doing this?" Asked her if she'd thought about our precious children, and what she appears determined to put them through. Told her this is not the woman I know, not the mother I know. Asked her to talk to me.

I've heard nothing.

I'm assuming she is reading anything I type, but I don't mind you all reminding me not to be stupid....

HBS

Last edited by HopefulButScared; 05/31/10 07:27 PM.

Me 41
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HopefulButScared #2382835 05/31/10 07:17 PM
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I meant moved to a topic (I don't know of an affair--or do I sound like BT, who my wife lovingly gave advice to... mad) other than SAA, with a title that doesn't make me sound like a deviant....

HBS


Me 41
W 38

Married 10 years, together 13

3 Kids: DS5, DS2 and DD1
HopefulButScared #2382837 05/31/10 07:18 PM
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By the way, I AM an attorney, but not in that area. I'm covered...

HBS


Me 41
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3 Kids: DS5, DS2 and DD1
HopefulButScared #2382839 05/31/10 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: HopefulButScared
I meant moved to a topic (I don't know of an affair--or do I sound like BT, who my wife lovingly gave advice to... mad) other than SAA, with a title that doesn't make me sound like a deviant....

HBS


I think that the thread belongs on this forum because there are so many red flags about HER fidelity, HBS. Even Dr Harley seems to have picked up on that over on the weekend forum.

The title to the thread, "sexual compulsion" is ludicrous in the face of the actual evidence. Looking at porn 3-4 times a year is not a sexual compulsion so her saying this appears to be an is an obvious attempt to paint you in a false light.

Last edited by MelodyLane; 05/31/10 07:51 PM.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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