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#2383405 06/01/10 03:54 PM
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Not that you people arent lovely, but I really did hope that I wouldnt be back here. Ever. Yet, here I am.

Since my H's affair 4 years ago with my closest friend, I have struggled with serious self esteem issues. I know I am an attractive woman, but my ego took such a hit when my H had an A.

This weekend, we got an invitation to join friends for dinner. These friends of ours are long time and my H is not attracted to the woman so I feel comfortable with them. They mentioned that there would be another couple attending as well, whom I do not know.

I explained to my H that I felt very vulnerable in these sorts of circumstances and that the evenings are rarely enjoyable for me as I spend most of the night worrying if my H finds the other woman attractive, if they are forming any kind of connection and if he is secretly planning on somehow contacting her. Opening up to my H in this way and explaining my fears was rather a big deal for me, and I felt happy I did. His response was very supportive, and he said that he thought I was the most beautiful woman on the planet, he was only interested in me and he doesnt "see" anyone else. Ever.

Fast forward 1.5 hours. We are in a home and garden store and Im in another aisle. I can see my H and he cant see me. there was a woman there who was very attractive and my husband was learing at her. Not a 30 second glance, but a full 3-4 minute stare. I saw her looking at him as well. My H had no idea I saw this, of course. When I did walk up to him, he went out of his way to position himself to continue to look at this woman, about 5 or 6 times - out of what he thought was my line of sight. Not quick looks at all but staring.

So, good people - what do you think? I am heartbroken because:

1. We had JUST had a conversation about how vulnerable I felt and my own self esteem
2. This was not an innocent glance
3. When I confronted him, he said " What woman"? Like he had no idea what I was talking about until he knew I knew and then he fessed up.

I know it was a simple look. I get that. What it implies is much much worse though.

I dont think I want to be married to this man anymore


BS: Me, 43
FWH: 50
EA/PA with My Friend Jan-Apr 06
DDay: 4/29/06
NC: email 5/1/06

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Kim, will you go post this to Dr Harley? Frankly, I don't know what to say. It bothers me that your H leers at women like that, and indicates to me the reason why you have not recovered.

You and I both know that a leering man [with eye contact] is signalling that he is AVAILABLE. As a female, wouldn't you think that if a man looked at you that way? I would.

Maybe this is why you can't recover, Kim. All that has changed is that he does a better job of covering up his interest in other women.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by JustKim
So, good people - what do you think?

Show me a man that doesn't stare at gorgeous women and I'll show you a man who's either much better than the rest of us at hiding it, or likely gay smile. That, and groping at our partners from time to time, is simply what we do.

So, what he did? Probably natural, though openly staring at one woman while you're in the company of another is really really bad manners. How he handled it when caught? Like most of us do when caught red-handed - like an idiot.

Ask him why he chose to lie to you at first. That conversation might be quite enlightening.

My FWW used to point out attractive women to me at one time, or ask me what I found attractive about those that caught my eye, sometimes registering her approval or disapproval of my tastes too. Now, she's a bit annoyed when she catches me looking. And SHE's the one who had an A. Go figure.



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What bothers me is that he went out of his way to reposition himself to keep staring at this woman. If she noticed, she probably thought he was a real lecher!

I agree with MiM, though - ask why he thought to lie to you about looking.


Me: BW, 27
Him: WH, 29
DD 4
DS 1
Married 07/25/09
A began end of 08/2009 (possibly sooner)
D-Day: 3/31/10
2nd D-Day: 4/9/2010
3rd D-Day: 4/21/10

Plan B (shortlived as it was): 18/05/10
WH decides to work on marriage: 20/05/10
False Recovery, Back to Plan B: 13/08/10

Filed for D Feb 2011, D April 2012

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Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Originally Posted by JustKim
So, good people - what do you think?

Show me a man that doesn't stare at gorgeous women and I'll show you a man who's either much better than the rest of us at hiding it, or likely gay smile. That, and groping at our partners from time to time, is simply what we do.

MIM,

Hate to say it but i disagree. I think it's a big difference between noticing the fact that a beautiful woman comes into your space and staring or leering at her.

It sounds like your H is almost doing it on purpose to me, to taunt or annoy you? Make you jealous?

I am not perfect but I make it a point to try to look away when a particularly gorgeous female comes into my view, because I feel she probably is already annoyed by it when other guys do it and I don't want to offend her, and 2 it's just kind of a boundary for me.

Sounds like your H has no boundaries, and that is your (or his) problem still.

SWW

PS Okay, I also don't wanna get busted for staring. smile

Last edited by sickwithworry; 06/01/10 04:27 PM.
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I had MANY moments when I would "catch" my WH looking at other women. I even read some research that said that men get a slight high when they see an attractive woman, kind of like the one women get from chocolate. I would usually say things when I would "catch" him like, "Well, her skirt is really short." He would get a silly child-like smile and he knew he was "caught." The funny thing is that after I was given the ILYBNILWY speech, we were at a restaurant and I noticed that he did NOT look at any women. I didn't understand. Now, I do.

The thing that bugs me about the way that your F(?)WH handled this sitch is exactly as ML described. He did it for a LONG time.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

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PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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Originally Posted by sickwithworry
Hate to say it but i disagree. I think it's a big difference between noticing the fact that a beautiful woman comes into your space and staring or leering at her.

No argument there. But at what point does "noticing" and "looking" become "staring" or "leering", and who gets to make that call? His "look" might be her "leer", for example.

Originally Posted by sickwithworry
It sounds like your H is almost doing it on purpose to me, to taunt or annoy you? Make you jealous?

If that was the case, he would not have tried to hide what he was doing.


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Originally Posted by JustKim
Not a 30 second glance, but a full 3-4 minute stare. I saw her looking at him as well. My H had no idea I saw this, of course.

When I did walk up to him, he went out of his way to position himself to continue to look at this woman, about 5 or 6 times - out of what he thought was my line of sight. Not quick looks at all but staring.

MIM,

This is what I caught.

SWW

Last edited by sickwithworry; 06/01/10 04:32 PM.
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Ok,

guess he was trying to hide it, but not too good.

SWW

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Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Originally Posted by JustKim
So, good people - what do you think?

Show me a man that doesn't stare at gorgeous women and I'll show you a man who's either much better than the rest of us at hiding it, or likely gay smile. That, and groping at our partners from time to time, is simply what we do.

So, what he did? Probably natural, though openly staring at one woman while you're in the company of another is really really bad manners. How he handled it when caught? Like most of us do when caught red-handed - like an idiot.

Ask him why he chose to lie to you at first. That conversation might be quite enlightening.

My FWW used to point out attractive women to me at one time, or ask me what I found attractive about those that caught my eye, sometimes registering her approval or disapproval of my tastes too. Now, she's a bit annoyed when she catches me looking. And SHE's the one who had an A. Go figure.

And this answer itself it was bothers me about men in general, you will fall over yourself to help out an attractive women yet let an elderly women carry all of her stuff and then wonder why your wife gets upset. Do you see your wife checking out attractive men?

I heard a joke one time that IMHO fits a lot of men.

"God gave a man two heads, but only enough blood to use one at a time"

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HAHAHHAA! sorry for laughing, but my husband always checks out girls but I really don't care mainly because I know I'm probably pettier smile (big EGO!) wanna know what my husband does after he checks out a girl?

"umm...ya I just checked out that girl over there." Then I would look and say "am I prettier?" and he would then check her out AGAIN then say "actually, her legs aren't that great, and you got the better legs!"

ONE TIME! We were at a restaurant and told me he kept checking out this girl behind me, so all threw dinner he was looking at this hot chick behind me while we were eating and guess what! When we left he checked her out AGAIN, but she wasn't checking HIM out she was CHECKING ME OUT!! MWHAHAHAHAHAA...I laughed my [censored] off when he told me, he then wanted to get her number for ME!

It doesn't bother me that he looks at other girls, cause he fesses up right after he does it. As long as he thinks I'm prettier doesn't matter to me!

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I imagine Mel is typing up her response to the groping tactic.

If I remember correctly she loves men that grope. grumble

SWW

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JK, as I read through that situation in the store, I got the same sick feeling as you.
So, no you are not overreacting.
I bet that I know everything that is in your head right now.

He's not taking EP's seriously enough.
He lied, until confronted.
You don't feel like he has really changed.

All huge factors to make you feel unsafe.
He doesn't get the impact that his A has had.

I would say to post this to Dr. Harley as well, and ask your H to read the response.
Will your H do some coaching with your MB coach?
This may help him to understand how his actions affect you. I know that he should know, I also know that he may not be trying to disregard and hurt you intentionally.
I want to use the word stupid, but that would be DJ, so I won't.
Unintentionally thoughtless, that's better.
I hope this is the case with your H.

To me, a spouse, aka married and that has had an A, (esp. after an A) has to be extra closed eye to attractive people.
It is a trigger to a BS, huge!






M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA


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Thanks everyone-

Mel - interestingly enough, I posted a similiar situation about a year ago to Dr Harley and he pretty much said exactly what Vittoria said. He isnt taking EP's seriously and was starting to back slide.

And you are right, I havent recovered and I dont think I will with him.
'
Sapphire - your response was interesting to me. I see you were the wayward - it explains alot.

I am going to post to Dr Harley and see what he says although I suspect it will be dead on with most of the opinions here.

MiM - if it were looking, I wouldnt care. This wasnt looking.


BS: Me, 43
FWH: 50
EA/PA with My Friend Jan-Apr 06
DDay: 4/29/06
NC: email 5/1/06

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Originally Posted by Still_Crazy
And this answer itself it was bothers me about men in general, you will fall over yourself to help out an attractive women yet let an elderly women carry all of her stuff and then wonder why your wife gets upset.

Not true - most of us would help out the elderly woman too, at least those of us with manners. MIL's don't count smile.

Originally Posted by Still_Crazy
Do you see your wife checking out attractive men?

Of course not, which is not surprising - physical attractiveness usually isn't that big an EN for women.


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Did you just call your MIL elderly? Oh MIM you better change that QUICK.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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Originally Posted by Scotland
Did you just call your MIL elderly? Oh MIM you better change that QUICK.

LOL - it's one of the tamer descriptions I have for her. The others are somewhat unmentionable smile.


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Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Originally Posted by JustKim
So, good people - what do you think?

Show me a man that doesn't stare at gorgeous women and I'll show you a man who's either much better than the rest of us at hiding it, or likely gay smile. That, and groping at our \

I ain't buying it, MIM. Look at her comments:
Quote
Not a 30 second glance, but a full 3-4 minute stare.


That is not a stare or glance, but a LEER. WITH EYE CONTACT. If my H did that I would bitchslap him so hard his future grandchildren would feel it. Every women knows what kind of guy does that.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by ManInMotion
[That, and groping at our partners from time to time, is simply what we do.

NOT IN MY HOUSE!! rant2 This is keep your mitts off the merchandise house!! mad


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Now see, my DH does sometimes glance at pretty women, and I think it is cute. Especially when I nail him on it:

DH, very subtly doing a sideways glance at some woman

Mel: are you looking at that skankho??

DH: OMG, did you see how stupid those pants look on that woman?? If I were her husband I would be so embarrassed! I am so glad you don't go out looking like that!

rotflmao


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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