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I'm sorry he continues to be insensitive to your feelings....the fact that he hid what he was doing and pretended it didn't happens makes me worry .........why would he stare and send a message he was interested.....what would he do if she responded to him?
Tell him this made you feel bad and ask him to be more aware of your feelings in this kind of situation......
If he is serious about wanting to make you feel comfortable he will not continue this behaviour......
Maybe you should give him a taste of his own medicine the next time you see an attractive guy.......can't hurt to get him thinking


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A related issue for me is when older/mid age men are checking out a girl 20 years their junior. (like she would give them the time of day, seriously!)


I hate to tell you this, guys- but you are wasting your time.


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Absolutely. I ALWAYS felt it was disrespectful to do it when you are with someone of the opposite sex. My Dad used to check out women when I was with him and even as a child of 11, I would feel extremely uncomfortable. When I would "catch" my WH looking, I would only make a comment to let HIM know that I saw him do it. It wasn't something I ever told him that he needed to stop though. Oh, if only I received a book by DrH as a wedding present. Guess what I will be giving out as presents from now on. laugh


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Originally Posted by JustKim
You are absolutely right. What I did was incredibly stupid.

Hi MrJK! I don't think it was stupid, I think it was indicative of how you treat women outside of your marriage. This is how you act when Kim is not around.

It was a revelation that your marriage is still not affair proofed BY YOU after all these years. Kim senses this and it is driving her CRAZY.

So no, I don't think it was stupid, I think it was profoundly dangerous. And the extent of the danger was revealed.

Saying it was "stupid" and promising to not do it again is not reassuring to me at all. It makes me wonder what else you do behind her back.

Would you be willing to take a polygraph?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Scotland
Absolutely. I ALWAYS felt it was disrespectful to do it when you are with someone of the opposite sex. My Dad used to check out women when I was with him and even as a child of 11, I would feel extremely uncomfortable. When I would "catch" my WH looking, I would only make a comment to let HIM know that I saw him do it. It wasn't something I ever told him that he needed to stop though. Oh, if only I received a book by DrH as a wedding present. Guess what I will be giving out as presents from now on. laugh

I college I was very pretty but also very shy. I HATED it when men checked me out. - especially the older dudes. I was usually working, so what can you do? It is embarrassing- and kind of creepy.

My daughter (very attractive kid) has quit eating dinner at restaurants because she can't eat while men are staring at her. She used to put her hand in front of her face, lean over the table and try to eat quickly.

I used to give the perp. the "stinkeye" -the young ones turn red and look away - but some men do not get this. OR take hints.

when she was 11 or so this started. (She is very tall, but she was just a kid!)

Last edited by barbiecat; 06/02/10 07:31 AM.

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Originally Posted by JustKim
I dont really think its worth it. My H, I fear is a lost cause. When I read BCB's post, I had a sinking feeling in my gut. I was afraid, you see - to know that my H really is all of those things BCB wrote. So, I asked my H to read the post. He did and when reading it, he snorted and remarked with a tone of great disdain... "droll?"

You got a glimpse behind the curtain, Kim, when you saw him leer at that woman. He does that when you are not around. What stands out to me is that he has not affair proofed your marriage in all these years.

I think your instincts are right and I understand why you are still of anxiety after all this time.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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and before you ask. NO, at 11 she was wearing hoodies, jeans and sneakers, no makeup.

She is just a natural blonde, china blue eyes the size of Texas and lets say, "chesty".

Last edited by barbiecat; 06/02/10 07:35 AM.

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Copying my post from the other thread:

I think what your husband did was horrible Independent Behavior and Dishonesty. The fact is that YOU DO NOT APPROVE. What he did was thoughtless because you do not approve of him doing it. He is showing no care for your feelings.

Now, the question is, is this a one-time incident, or a habit? And what do all of his other habits do for you? Do they make you feel in love, or are there other habits like this?

For the record, I read your #1 and I think that the average man would not connect what he did with your self-esteem issues. You had just discussed it but, surprisingly, he probably did not see a connection. Many men are simply that way, and have to be educated.

Also, I noticed you mentioned that it wasn't just a 30 second glance ... to me a 30 second glance is a tremendous problem. A man ought to not glance for more than mere seconds. And he definitely ought not to try to hide his glancing from his wife. And if he lies about that, it's extremely serious.

I think you need to set the bar very high.

Again, I'm curious about his other habits, and if this behavior is a habit.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Originally Posted by sickwithworry
Hate to say it but i disagree. I think it's a big difference between noticing the fact that a beautiful woman comes into your space and staring or leering at her.

No argument there. But at what point does "noticing" and "looking" become "staring" or "leering",

If a man doesn't believe he is obligated to avoid temptation by looking away, it's staring.

Quote
and who gets to make that call?

The offended wife. The offended always gets to make the call on what is or is not a love bank withdrawal.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by markos
What he did was thoughtless

What was thoughtless the discussion afterwards. The problem here is much more pervasive than just thoughtless behavior. Kim said:

Originally Posted by JustKim
here was a woman there who was very attractive and my husband was learing at her. Not a 30 second glance, but a full 3-4 minute stare. I saw her looking at him as well. My H had no idea I saw this, of course. When I did walk up to him, he went out of his way to position himself to continue to look at this woman, about 5 or 6 times - out of what he thought was my line of sight.
I think this behavior is indicative of the way he is when he is not around Kim. That is the crux of the issue here. Kim doesn't want to just be protected when he is around her, but especially when she is not around. Actually Mel (above) worded this much better than I did.

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Originally Posted by markos
I intentionally developed the habit of looking away whenever a woman I wasn't married to made me feel aroused, before I even met my wife, because I knew that kind of behavior was destructive for a marriage, and I wanted to have a good marriage some day. I developed this habit ten years ago. I wasn't familiar with Marriage Builders at the time, but I was familiar with how to develop a new habit. The habit has stuck fairly well for about ten years. Prior to that I was happy to look at and fantasize about everything in a skirt.

Any man can and should learn this, if he cares about his wife.

This is the point I was looking for - thank you, markos, for restoring my faith in the male gender.

Kim, we like to think we're important around here grin but at the end of the day it's what YOU think. And YOU think he crossed the line. I understand that the male of the species is typically visually oriented. Hence the huge success of porn magazines and websites. However, that doesn't give men carte blanche to letch after women with their tongues drooling. I'd like to think they've evolved a tad more than that.

Markos's post is a good example - okay, men like to look. They know they like to look. They also know about boundaries. There is a line that they know they shouldn't cross and your H knows he crossed it. The question is WHY. Maybe he hasn't consciously worked on this, or maybe he did and has let it slide. Time to pull him back in.

Have you considered "field training" with him? As in going places with him and observing him, letting him know when he is over the boundary for noticing women?


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Originally Posted by tst
It's amazing how many men cling to the idea that it's OK to act like we are still single and look at other women, even though we are married.....

It amazes me how many guys think it's okay to stare at women to arouse yourself when you're single. I don't think it's appropriate behavior for a man, period.


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Originally Posted by jessitaylor
Maybe you should give him a taste of his own medicine the next time you see an attractive guy.......can't hurt to get him thinking

This is NEVER a good idea, Jessie!

Kim, as I read posts yesterday, my first response was that maybe there was a slight over reaction on your part because of the A but I reread the entire thread this morning and I believe it would be a deal breaker for me. I would consider it having "caught" him in the very early stage of another A and I agree that this is very obviously the way he acts when you are not around.

I also think that in this stage of your R, it is up to him to come up with how he can make you feel safe about his shaky boundaries. His single post yesterday reeks of entitlement and blame shifting.

My DH has come to realize in the last year or two that perhaps the farthest reaching consequence of his A is that he is now married to a different woman. He is married to a woman forever changed by his selfishness and unfaithfullness. I always say that I will not allow myself to be defined by his adultery but sadly, I now see everything through affair colored glasses. I wish I didn't have to but it is my instinctive means of self preservation.

My DH has never told me that I will never be able to put this behind us or trust him again but he knows that is the truth. I will also never playfully point out a beautiful scantily dressed young woman to him and say, "Don't miss that one!" It is just a small part of the price he pays and he is smart enough to know that.

God's Blessings,

Say


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Originally Posted by ImStaying
Originally Posted by markos
What he did was thoughtless

What was thoughtless the discussion afterwards.

Both were pretty thoughtless, no?

Quote
I think this behavior is indicative of the way he is when he is not around Kim. That is the crux of the issue here.

I suspect so, too, which is why I am curious about his other habits and what they reveal.

It does not sound like this is an isolated incident in the life of a man who otherwise has implemented EPs and love-bank-depositing habits.


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Thanks, everyone for your insightful and helpful posts. I think it is unlikely that my h will post here as he feels like" he doesn't get any support here" and he needs to find a forum where he WILL get support. My H tellsme he feels very alienated from me and distant now. That I'm not supporting him and he needs my approval. He says this is not indicative of his behavior, it's an unfair portrayal and he simply " failed to be vigilant and was immediately chastised for it " and " lesson learned"

my heart is breaking. I don't know how to get through to someone who thinks like this and I fear I have no choice but to file for seperation which I'm looking in to now

This is awful


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Originally Posted by JustKim
Thanks, everyone for your insightful and helpful posts. I think it is unlikely that my h will post here as he feels like" he doesn't get any support here" and he needs to find a forum where he WILL get support. My H tellsme he feels very alienated from me and distant now. That I'm not supporting him and he needs my approval. He says this is not indicative of his behavior, it's an unfair portrayal and he simply " failed to be vigilant and was immediately chastised for it " and " lesson learned"

Any mention of YOUR feelings ?
Or, is it all about his feelings of chastisement?

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Originally Posted by JustKim
Thanks, everyone for your insightful and helpful posts. I think it is unlikely that my h will post here as he feels like" he doesn't get any support here" and he needs to find a forum where he WILL get support.

But you're the one who was wronged. You need his support, right?

Quote
My H tellsme he feels very alienated from me and distant now. That I'm not supporting him and he needs my approval.

Then he should do things you approve of instead of things you disapprove of, right? That would be the ordinary way of getting someone's approval.

Quote
He says this is not indicative of his behavior,

I say that's for you to decide, not him.

Quote
it's an unfair portrayal

You portrayed it exactly as it happened, did you not?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Well he apologizes. Says he is sorry. That he knows he hurt me and that I must feel awful. So, He is acknowledging how I feel, sort of.

I'll tell you how I feel. I feel like I did after dray, realizing that I thought we were a proof and we aren't. And he is foggy. Says he is sorry but then complains he isn't getting support from me and turns this into him being a victim. That Ive chastised him

It's such bs


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You've been on my mind JK, I'm so sorry that you are being made to feel this way,
I say being made cuz it's his actions and lack of care and insight that don't allow for you to feel any other way, other than not safe.
Melody's word of dangerous is the perfect description.

I understand that you need to take action to protect yourself, the risk of hurt is too great. It's so maddening that they (WS's) put us in this position,
a position of taking drastic steps, steps that again we have to initiate, all to protect ourselves,
when it's been their lack of care that has made us feel like this to begin with.

He is foggy, I agree. I so believe that the core feeling of selfishness in a WS has to be squashed, if it's not, it grows back into exactly what led them to disregard us in the first place.


By chance if Mr. JK is reading ........ you may think that you have fixed your thinking, if you have done this on your own,
realize that the only influence that you've had in that venture, has been your own skewed thoughts, which have proven to be detrimental to your spouse.
It's possible to change your thinking, if you are willing to do the work. I believe that this is fixable, if you want it to be.
Regardless of what happens to your M, it's in the best interest of your family to at least explore how your thinking is dangerous.

How do I know that your thinking is selfish?
You didn't recognize that first step of not thinking of your BW, when you noticed that attractive female.
Then you went on to leer at her, again not even realizing that you were not thinking of how this would affect your BW.
It just got worse after that, and then finally to the point that you lied, to protect yourself.

It's that first step of not recognizing the danger, that led you to your A.
Your mind was on you, what made you feel good inside, and you followed that path, you continued staring, and
had the boldness to do it in front of your wife.

Use your MB coach Mr. JK, they are supportive and non judgmental. Just make the call.

Last edited by Vittoria; 06/02/10 11:53 AM. Reason: removed a word that changes the whole meaning, ugh!

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Vittoria-

We are speaking to Kimberly once a week, and have been for about 6 weeks now. Id like to say its helping but Im afraid it really isnt. Not that it is anyone's fault but our own, of course.

Im weary, folks. This is a lot of effort for little or no return. I think Im going to throw in the towel. The rot here goes very very deep.


BS: Me, 43
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DDay: 4/29/06
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