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I still think that you are Flamingo.

Except I was never a Marine. I was Air Force.

I read your posts and say: That's my Flamingo. I KNOW what I had to do to help Flamingo feel safe.

I hope that MrJK does the same things.

There are many good qualities about him. I would like to think that there were many good qualities about me as well. I just had to work on the ones that made Flamingo NOT feel safe. I am sure that they are very similar to the same ones that MrJK is missing.

So there is hope.

LG- if you would be kind enough to post to Mr JK when he shows up, Im sure he would find it super helpful, if you are saying that I remind you of Flamingo. Perhaps some perspective from someone who has recovered their M would be a great kick start to project Recovery.


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Originally Posted by Vittoria
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
The fact that you are here and he is here tells me that it isn't too late. I would change your conscious thinking about that.
I think the same, I think that this is fixable.

If Kim becomes willing to pull the trigger on Plan B or D, then, yes, I think it is.

That's the main change I think she needs to become willing to make.

I think she's spent a lot of time changing everything else hoping that it would prevent her from having to fire that trigger. I think all that effort has worn her out. She's been in Plan C with a wayward for four years!!!

Kim, I just want to mention that giving him a list of things that would make you willing to stay in the marriage won't accomplish anything if you aren't willing to leave the marriage over them.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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See how pathetically slow I am, lol.
As I was posting, and doing other things, Mr. JK has his own thread.

I hate fast moving threads!!!!! lol

JK, FWIW, I understand where you are coming from, all to well.
Not so much the specifics, but the mentality part.....yes.

It can be fixed, just not fast.

I hate Recovery!


M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA


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Originally Posted by Vittoria
Unless Mr.JK does this for himself, it's not genuine

Exactly! It doesn't work if you do the heavy lifting, Kim.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Right again. Its a long ingrained habit in my H ( and again - no DJ intended) that he leaves everything up to someone else. If we were borken, its up to me to fix it. Everything has been left up to me to fix, decide, research. He wants to assume responsibility for nothing. And let me tell you, that is no fun. Im worn out by being the one that is responsible for all the maritial wear and tear. So, its not surprise to me that he wouldnt see himself as responsible for policing himself, or for his own behavior.

Is it only an "ingrained habit" for your H to leave everything up to you? Or has it also become an ingrained habit for you to take care of/manage everything for your H?

Quote
First, while I thank you all from the bottom of my heart, please please be respectful to Mister JK. He made the effort to get a log in and post and has gotten slammed. Please. He needs your help. While I understand better than anyone how his behavior is worthy of contempt, it is not helping him or me. So, if you could be a little kinder, Id be awfully grateful.

As an exmarine, I'm sure he faced more difficult situations than getting a few 2x4's on a message board.

He knew exactly what he was doing when he posted those seven carefully chosen words, "I think I'm going to throw up."

He knew you would jump into action to help manage his feelings. B/c that is what you always do. That is what works FOR HIM.

But does it work for you? Can you allow him to feel unpleasant feelings w/o feeling as though you ought to do something about them?


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Exactly! It doesn't work if you do the heavy lifting, Kim.

Indeed you are right. I am ready to leave.

You are so right, I have been hoping that anything will happen to prevent me from pulling the trigger but I just cant live this way anymore. This has hit me harder than anything else has, nearly as hard as d day.

I AM prepared to leave. Im not afraid to leave. I want my M but I dont *need* my M.


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If Kim becomes willing to pull the trigger on Plan B or D, then, yes, I think it is.

That's the main change I think she needs to become willing to make.

I think she's spent a lot of time changing everything else hoping that it would prevent her from having to fire that trigger. I think all that effort has worn her out. She's been in Plan C with a wayward for four years!!!

Kim, I just want to mention that giving him a list of things that would make you willing to stay in the marriage won't accomplish anything if you aren't willing to leave the marriage over them.


I agree 100%.

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Ok Peeps.

THE LIST

1. Polygraph
2. Counseling for him to explore:
a. why he is so emotionally unavailable learn new behaviors
b. tendency to employ PA coping mechanisms
c. tendency to not follow through on things promised
3. Call with Steve H to talk about plan to implement EP's
4. Follow MB religiously. Start over with weekly lessons.
5. Post here regularly and discuss with me how posts impact him

Thats it. Now that I read through this, I wonder why I never thought I was worth this before....




BS: Me, 43
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I have not posted to you before I don't think but I just wanted to say that so much of what you are dealing with strikes close to home. I just posted on the thread started for Mr.JK. It isn't much and I have not read your entire thread only most of it but I hope it might strike a chord with him. It can't be easy to feel so entitled to expect your wife to also be your mommy and allow her to suffer through whatever you feel like doing and then come here to suffer the 2x4's and learn to be a real husband but it can be done. It has to be done. I told GM he had to do it or I was not going to stay, I could not do all that lifting and I was tired of being the only one to take care of things. I am certain you have had that discussion a thousand times. I am hurting for you right now. You sound ready to call it quits and perhaps that is your best recovery. (((((hugs)))))


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Originally Posted by JustKim
Ok Peeps.

THE LIST

1. Polygraph
2. Counseling for him to explore:
a. why he is so emotionally unavailable learn new behaviors
b. tendency to employ PA coping mechanisms
c. tendency to not follow through on things promised
3. Call with Steve H to talk about plan to implement EP's
4. Follow MB religiously. Start over with weekly lessons.
5. Post here regularly and discuss with me how posts impact him

Thats it. Now that I read through this, I wonder why I never thought I was worth this before....

My suggestions:

1) Totally drop 2a, 2b, and 2c. You don't care WHY he does these things. Trying to figure it out is a waste of time. He has to fix them, or he's gone.

2) weekly calls with Steve as part of following MB; not to diminish in frequency until you and Steve both agree

3) do not go forward to this list until it has been reviewed by serious veterans here who have recovered marriages and have been on for years. You need more details in your list, but I don't personally know what.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by JustKim
I AM prepared to leave. Im not afraid to leave. I want my M but I dont *need* my M.

You need to change this mindset as well. This puts you in the Renter category.

I would like to hear you say, and mean:
I am a very strong, independent woman. I can accomplish just about anything if I decide it's important to me to do so. I can live on my own and be very content. I want my M. I NEED my M. It is part of what makes me whole. It is part of what enables me to be who I am.

Your comment concerns me and makes me wonder how committed to your M you truly are. It makes me wonder if those negative feelings toward your M aren't being picked up by Mr. JK. and are affecting how he looks at your M.

Have you always felt this way toward your M, or is this since the A? Maybe you're burnt out from doing so much lifting by yourself? Just wondering...


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DG

Did you have a previous screen name? I seem to recall your story from your tag line but under another name?

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It can't be easy to feel so entitled to expect your wife to also be your mommy

Can you explain this to me? What do you mean by that. I have a hard time understanding this "entitlement" thing. Entitled to what exactly? Im never really clear on what that means.

Thank you for posting to me. I hope you are doing ok



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Kim, has your husband signed Dr. Harley's form agreement to meet your emotional needs and avoid love busters? Have you provided recently filled-out emotional needs and love busters questionnaires to him?

You are feeling so devastated because he isn't doing these things.

Can your husband list the ten Marriage Builders basic concepts?

(Can you? wink )


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Bliss

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You need to change this mindset as well. This puts you in the Renter category.

I would like to hear you say, and mean:
I am a very strong, independent woman. I can accomplish just about anything if I decide it's important to me to do so. I can live on my own and be very content. I want my M. I NEED my M. It is part of what makes me whole. It is part of what enables me to be who I am.

Your comment concerns me and makes me wonder how committed to your M you truly are. It makes me wonder if those negative feelings toward your M aren't being picked up by Mr. JK. and are affecting how he looks at your M.

Have you always felt this way toward your M, or is this since the A? Maybe you're burnt out from doing so much lifting by yourself? Just wondering...

At the moment, Im not terribly committed. I havent decided to commit *yet* I gave Mr JK the list and if he tells me he can do this - then I will be 100 percent committed. end of story.

And Ive always been a buyer. As Steve Harley said to me once
Quote
You are a big buyer. But, sometimes - even buyers sell their houses.


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Markos

Funny man! I can name them but only if I cheat, thats how far we've gotten off track.

Lets see - I will be honest and name what I can without peeking.

1. 15 hours week together
2. no DJ's
3. POJA
4. Avoid being your spouses source of greatest unhappiness
5. meet emotional needs
6. no angry outbursts
7. No selfish demands


dear god! I was just saying the other day how much "smart' Ive lost. When I was in college, I retained SO MUCH.

Id better go brush up!!


BS: Me, 43
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Originally Posted by JustKim
Bliss

And Ive always been a buyer. As Steve Harley said to me once
Quote
You are a big buyer. But, sometimes - even buyers sell their houses.

Gotcha. My point is that repeating something over and over makes it flesh out in your mind. Maybe you don't feel committed right now (with reason, don't get me wrong.) But if you want to give this M once last, good tackle, I'd like to see you rewording your mental conversation with yourself. I think your current mental conversation is leading you toward that open door of D.


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Bliss

You are right. Lets see how I feel in a day or too. When I DO commit, I commit fully, as I did 4 years ago. Its taken 4 years for me to get where I am now, so as you can see - I had a LOT of goodwill!


BS: Me, 43
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Originally Posted by JustKim
Bliss

You are right. Lets see how I feel in a day or too. When I DO commit, I commit fully, as I did 4 years ago. Its taken 4 years for me to get where I am now, so as you can see - I had a LOT of goodwill!

And I'm not gonna knock you, sister! smile That's taken some mental fortitude on your part. I think it's also taken a mental toll on you. I know it would have on me!

My thought is to change what you're thinking to: "It's been a tough 4 years, but I love my H and I love my M and I'm not going to end it without one last, good battle!"

You may not be totally in love with that whole idea, but repeat it to yourself anyway. See if it helps.


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Originally Posted by JustKim
I gave Mr JK the list and if he tells me he can do this - then I will be 100 percent committed.

He will tell you this, no matter what.

Please don't make your decision based on his words.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by JustKim
DG

Did you have a previous screen name? I seem to recall your story from your tag line but under another name?

I was sadsosad then madsomad as I made my way through the experience but when I began recovery I changed it to DancesWithGoats, a name inspired by our wonderful Pepperband.

Quote
Quote
It can't be easy to feel so entitled to expect your wife to also be your mommy

Can you explain this to me? What do you mean by that. I have a hard time understanding this "entitlement" thing. Entitled to what exactly? Im never really clear on what that means.

Thank you for posting to me. I hope you are doing ok

He felt entitled to an affair. He feels entitled to leer at other women, insulting to both you and the other women. He feels entitled to let you handle all the work of recovery or learning how to get to that point. That is him being entitled, there is probably much more. It is also allowing/forcing you to do the heavy work and I call that being his mommy. You are the fixer, the learner, the thinker and then the teller. He is the childlike man in this situation. You spoon feed him his lessons and then he decides if he should swallow and commit or spit it all back out and be entitled to what he wants. All of this is couched in my own experience however and may not fit your situation. I am not very good at advice yet, still tripping around in all of it too much. I won't be back for a bit but if you want more explanation or situations or just whatever I will answer you later. smile


BW-me-56
FWH-GreenMile-62
Married 1982
2 wonderful grown sons

D Day #1 4/1985
D Day #2 10/03/08
D Days continued for a while.

Started real recovery 07/15/10
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