To tell your BH about the affair when he does not want to know is wrong. The BH/BW gets to control what they need to hear about the OP.

For some, meaning I have seen a few BH's that were content to know the affair was over and their WW was recommitting to the marriage. Once told these things they refused to learn more.

How ever their right to not know more must be overwritten. As when the OM was a friend, relative of BH. The OM knocked up the WW. WW got an STD. The reason for the house to be sold you must move because the OM was a neighbor, or you must leave your job because you work with the OM.

Kind of hard to not tell BH why he has move without the why. Same for giving up that fabulous job.

To add mmany BH's want to know everything about their WW's affair and the OM.

Have you read His Needs Her Needs? It sounds like husband needs to do his share of fulfilling your needs.

RemainNameless,

Thoughts below:

here's a scenario: what if i DON'T love my husband right now?

Response: 1st of all why don't you love your husband? I encourage you to be honest with yourself and fully lay out why.

trust me, i want to.
nothing would make me happier than to fall in love with the man i'm already married to and live happily ever after.

Response: why do you want to love him again? Is it because this is what you are supposed to do and to do otherwise would bring on shame? Or is it some other reason? My advice is to take it slow and 1st communicate with him. In my case, the FWS was upset because she felt her life was taken from her...a career and a lost chance with a first love. The career could have happened and the first love was something in the past that was never going to be. Morale of the story - You have to stop looking in the past and actually look foward if you want to move ahead successfully!! (Try to walk forward while your head is turned looking behind you...does not work so well right?)

i've already committed myself to staying married no matter what--you think counseling can help me remember WHY i want to stay married to him? not being sarcastic here, just totally candid. i could never be this honest with people i see face-to-face.you think it's possible to fall back in love if you work at it?
Response: is it possible to fall back in love...YES it is! Remember that the foundation of your relationship has been torn down and now has to be rebuilt by both to endure. Again, you have to ask yourself and be totally honest as to why you want to stay married no matter what. Is it for appearances, safety and security, for the kids (if you have any) or some other reason? You have to change that attitude eventually IMHO. It has to be that you want to be with him.

Good luck and God Bless!!

yeah, we read it forever ago when we were first married, way before we had any conflicts. i'm going back over it earnestly and trying to do my part learn how to meet his needs--at this stage it's really not fair for me to ask anything of him re MY needs.

i'm just trying to lay low, be sweet, and give him space and time to get get over what i did. maybe one day we'll be at the point where i can be open about what i want from him--but what if my needs are fundamentally at odds with his? ex:

i crave animated, spontaneous conversation. always, pretty much. my H has a demanding job and his greatest desire when he gets home is for peace and quiet--a totally legitimate need that i can respect, and one that i indulge. my "need" for conversation is really a preference, his need is a NEED. i don't want talking to me to be a chore for him, some kind of obligation he has to fulfill each day for a certain time period. either you find someone entertaining to talk to or you don't. he doesn't.

he's gained a lot of weight and can't work out anymore--old football injuries, chronic pain. not his fault. it's not as though he got fat on purpose because he doesn't respect my desire for a good-looking husband.

i could go on and on--do you see what i mean by asking what if my needs aren't compatible with his? wouldn't it be sort of a mean, challenging gesture to point out to him what's important to me when he's not physically or emotionally equipped to fulfill these needs?

i'm trying to work on myself first--is there a way to literally change one's mind and sort of downplay certain needs until you honestly don't care about them anymore? i want to be happy with my husband, but i feel like there's going to have to be some serious INTERNAL change--like i need to redefine my own expectations and wants and needs.

reasons to stay married:

we have two adorable girls who love their dad, and i've always taught them that marriage is special, sacred, marriage is forever, marriage is a joy, etc etc. i want them to have happy marriages when they grow up--i want to be a good example of a great mom and wife. i would be the worst kind of hypocrite if i left my husband and undid all that. it would shatter their faith in happy families.

it breaks my heart to think of my friend who jumped ship and got divorced less than a year after i admitted to her that i had been unfaithful...i feel as though i sanctioned and encouraged it. led by example, so to speak. (gallows humor, there.) i don't want to influence other people with my bad decisions.

it would RUIN my husband. i'm his second wife. she cheated too. 3 strikes you're out.

in short, i don't want to throw away an 8-year marriage because i lost my mind and made a selfish, spoiled, princessy decision. i believe there's a pay-off for people who do it right...there is surely a special joy in celebrating your 50th anniversary.

i KNOW my mind isn't right, right this red-hot second, because the selfish part of me DOES want to cut and run:
"c'mon, you deserve it, you can start over, you don't know what you're missing, what the hell, kids are resilient, right?"
messed up as i am, though, i know that's not right. and equally important, it's not even statistically correct.

no, i don't like my husband right now--but i want to.

RN,

How is your H handling this, you write alot about yourself,and perhaps that is honest, but preachers are under a gigantic burden to be perfect persons, how does he cope?

it almost sounds like he moved on but never allowed the wound to heal.

How far away is OM?

God Bless
Gamma

he reacted pretty...intensely. without making any threats, he said several times that one of the three of us should die. i don't believe he hates me all the time now, but i can tell he does sometimes.

he is no longer in the ministry. i had mentioned he had been struggling with a crisis of faith before the affair, but that's not really accurate--he was debating over whether to leave his position at our church. he decided not to renew his contract just before he found out about the affair. now, his decision to leave that particular position doesn't bespeak a crisis of faith, he was just listening earnestly for God's direction--the real crisis ensued immediately afterward, when he found out about the affair.

his faith is destroyed. we no longer even attend church. he is bitter towards God, towards the church as an institution, towards everyone in ministry, and is convinced that his devotion to the ministry led him to neglect his family, which led to the affair. WHICH IS EMPHATICALLY NOT THE CASE. he feels that everything in this world is conspiring to make him miserable.

7 years in the ministry. now in the past 2 years he's been through 4 jobs. he started taking painkillers a few months ago for an old football injury that flared up--now he takes them every day. he doesn't hate me all the time, but he is tolerant at best.

i'm afraid i have ruined him forever.

RN,

Is the OM superior in some ways to your H, or perhaps more importantly, does your H feel that OM is?

One of the things which killed me about OM in my case was that he was younger/better looking than I am.

God Bless
Gamma

RN,

Do you even tell him the things you are feeling? From reading more of your posts, it sure sounds like you two need to do some healing through counseling...I urge you to communicate your feelings and desires and listen to his!! I have been through a very similar thing and talking, no matter how unpleasant or uncomfortable it may be, is key to healing if you want it. The way you are going, both of you are going to be miserable without doing something different!!

i'm trying to get brave. i feel like: if i couldn't ask him to treat me differently before the affair, now i REALLY don't have the right to ask for anything. i've tried "what can i do to make YOU happy?" but he has always insisted that he's perfectly content, even when he's obviously not.

you know, we've never in 9 years had a proper fight. i'm a very outspoken person socially, but with my husband...maybe i feel like there's too much at stake. like, what if i express some opinion that offends him. or what if i tell him that such-and-such is really important to me and it turns out he's not willing or able to do that/be that? then he'll feel inadequate forever.

i'm trying to put things in perspective--nothing to lose, really, at this point. i just need to man up, huh?

i agree 100%. I do NOT want to know everything. I already know why the A started, where it started, and all about the OM. I dont want to know the details of the SF and their dirty dealings with him. SHE will have to live with that and i will support her.

I DO still want to know what needs he was filling so i can meet those. I also want to know how she contacted the OM so I can seal that crack.

Basically I want to focus on the future and things I can do. Not history that will just depress me and give me more triggers I dont wanna deal with.

Best of luck with your M.

BTW talk to him about a goal. Where you want your M to be. Get him to agree thats what he wants. Then sell him the idea of MB. Its a system that can get you that goal.

RN,

then he'll feel inadequate forever.

Perhaps he never got the straight dope from his first wife either so he is now flying blind.

One action does not remove or overshadow another, your affair does not make your/his lack of communication unimportant, both have to be dealt with.

Silence and dishonesty was what allowed your affair to live.

God Bless
Gamma

RemainNameless,
This is my opinion if you want it...!
You do have the right to ask to have your needs met. If he truely wants your marriage to work he has to do his share. It takes 2 to get your marriage to a point where you feel like straying. You made the bad choice, but he contributed to the problem.
There are ways to make your needs fit. Are you sure it is spontaneous conversation you need, or is it just conversation? Every evening my husband and I go to bed and just talk for at least half an hour. I NEED it. He doesn't. He does it for me. Physical activity is a small part of weight loss. Eating healthy will make a huge impact - exercise or not. Etc...
I agree, you need to look forward. Put yourself all in - or don't and move on. It sounds like your husband could definitely use some counseling to help him recover and help direct you as well.

Once you both have chosen to embark on Dr. Willard Harley's recovery program together -- outlined in "Surviving An Affair", and explored more fully in "Love Busters", "His Needs, Her Needs", and "Five Steps to Romantic Love" -- it typically takes around two years for the two of you to feel fully in-love and to trust one another again.

As the betrayer, the burden is on you to ensure your actions and words are in perfect harmony with one another for the rest of your life, even if your spouse isn't quite on board with it yet. No "trickle truth". Don't hold anything back. If asked questions, answer them immediately and honestly.

Learn to live your life by the rules of Care, Protection, Time, and Honesty, paying special attention to the Policy of Joint Agreement and Exclusive Needs-Meeting. From this day for the rest of your life.

I like Pepperband's advice. I was kinda thinking the same thing. I've been sitting here doing back flips for my WW for years and years, and totally missed the boat on her needs. It wasn't till I took some very negative communication from her to heart. In a nutshell, she was pissed because she thought that I spent money too freely. She has told me this for years, but I didn't think it was a problem for one reason or other. I came up with a budget on my own and presented it to her, and she dropped everything at that minute to sit and refine it. It was completely amazing...Ever since that night she thinks that I have shown her what she needs to put her effort back into the relationship.
The point is, it might seem like you are doing everything that YOU would want from a partner...but their needs and expectations and responses would be completely different. Analyze the things they say to you that may be positive. Those might be the things that they want to hear from you...check out the EN questionaires and do your best to work together on it and keep trying to figure out those shortcomings that will make your spouse receptive to more communication about the subject. I try to bring it up when we are just bored maybe once a week. You got to take it slowly.
If you think you aren't reaching your spouse, you might try a different form of communication. Email, text message...just throwing out some ideas...

Good luck! At least you are being proactive!

good advice, as is all i've received--thanks, everyone!

my H (like how i'm picking up the acronyms?) isn't the type to come right out and say This Is How You Can Meet My Needs, so i'm trying to just observe whatever elicits a positive or negative reaction from him--i frankly don't know if he can admit to himself that he HAS emotional needs. i mentioned to him that i'm studying some reputable material on how i can be a better wife, but i'm going really easy on the terminology.

i'm sure lots of people have commented on how wierd it is to start over after an affair, as far as rebuilding trust, etc--but i feel like i'm just now starting to understand the most basic concepts of marriage for the first time. like, elementary stuff. i've spent so many years just trying not to actively make him UNhappy it's barely occurred to me that there's got to be something i can do to make him HAPPY.

i've been through all the questionnaires and have copies for him, but he's pretty dismissive of anything that smacks of Sensitive Man...i'm trying to obliquely get info without grilling him.

i don't think i'll ever be able to say, "hey, here's what you can do to meet my needs", but if i can get a smile out of him i'll feel infinitely better as a wife and as a person.

let me ask you this, when your wife came out and told you how important it was to her to rein in your spending, was it before or after the affair? and if after, was your first reaction, "wow, i guess i really should have been putting you first in our financial decisions" or was it more along the lines of, "how dare you critique my decisions in light of what you've done?"

excellent advice across the board.

my husband has left the ministry and the church as an institution. i know i was probably the final brick in the wall, there--he was already struggling with matters of faith, he felt that God was allowing all circumstances in his life to conspire against him; and while by all outward appearances i kept up an appearance of empathy and support for him, that just made it harder for him when he discovered my betrayal. he's now CONVINCED that God has it in for him, and worse, he believes his devotion to the ministry caused him to neglect his family and therefore led to my affair. which i've tried to assure him is completely untrue, but why would he listen to me now, right?

i am trying with every ounce of strength i can muster to meet my husband's needs...maybe that will eventually help him trust again--not so much me in particular, but the world at large, with God at the helm.

hey, on a happy note, i slept in his bed last night! and he talked to me about work this evening when he came home!

I bumped a thread for you to read.
Part of being a good spouse is learning the fine art of complaining.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2232015

It seems counter-intuitive, at first.
But learning to complain and learning to listen to complaints are BOTH good marriage habits!