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Karma,

It is not the only way and it is not about being blind.

Another way is for JK to follow her boundaries and let violations of her boundaries(he hurting her) cause her to make her own decisions instead of caving into her boundaries when he spins her. That is strength.



ME BH 40 - FWW 39

Sons - 9 and 7

DDAY - March 18,2006

Married 10 years

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Ms V-

Thanks for the post. I appreciate it.

TJD -

I am an enabler. I know that. Im saying that Im not going to enable anymore. Quite simple, really.

I have ignored any faults, as you say - in MJK for years. ive accepted less than nothing in many cases. All I am simply saying is that Im not doing it anymore. end of story.

We speak to Kimberly once a week, and MJK has an appt w SH on Wed. So, often.


And, I need the poly. It is MY boundary.


BS: Me, 43
FWH: 50
EA/PA with My Friend Jan-Apr 06
DDay: 4/29/06
NC: email 5/1/06

Recovering
TJD #2386717 06/07/10 07:17 PM
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[quote][[censored] and [censored] about the alcoholic when they enable enable and enable some more./quote]

Im sorry - point out to me how me holding him accountable is enabling?

Wouldnt enabling be to allow him to get out of a poly, to violate my boundaries?

Look- I am admittedly out of patience. Its been a long time. Im out of gas, folks.

Am I here bitching about it? I guess I am.


BS: Me, 43
FWH: 50
EA/PA with My Friend Jan-Apr 06
DDay: 4/29/06
NC: email 5/1/06

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Sorry about the word bitching as you are hearing a different message than I am communicating.

I'm just sharing reference points - things you say and communicate isn't something that is unique to only you and your relationship and in the end I know you will do what is best for you.

My W's father was an alcoholic. When I focused on that it simply made things worse, she was broken and that was the problem in my mind and I brought it to her attention. Didn't work for me is all I am saying. And looking back it was Dr. Harley that got me off that and I think he was right. I needed to be more respectful and understand her point of view and appreciate where she was coming from. I wanted the same thing.

Not sure if this would be the same for you but another good step for us was stepping away from MB'ers and the counseling. We spent a couple of years talking weekly or every other week and the principles get ingrained in you but we used the counselors as a crutch. When we stopped it left it up to us to figure it out. I can't tell you how many times after this where we would be in the middle of something destructive and we would both stare at each other and be thinking through what was happening. We were now on our own and needed to figure it out.

They are all tough lessons.




Last edited by TJD; 06/07/10 07:52 PM.

ME BH 40 - FWW 39

Sons - 9 and 7

DDAY - March 18,2006

Married 10 years

Recovering
TJD #2386733 06/07/10 08:15 PM
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JK -- you are perfectly entitled to not put up with it anymore. Only you can decide your limits.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I really dont want this to be me.


BS: Me, 43
FWH: 50
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DDay: 4/29/06
NC: email 5/1/06

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Hi Kim,

Wow you have been busy and you've been given a lot of good advice.

I have a question. Do you still love, and I mean lifetime love, your husband. If you do, then I would advise you to back off abit and deal directly with him and not the advice givers here. I do not mean that as any criticism, I mean it only that you seem to be gettign to caught up now in a p*****g contest. Your person to deal with is your husband on and exclusive basis. If the true issues is O&H, which it seems, then deal more with him. If you really are that out of love with him, well then you know the answer.

I do understand, Kim, your frustration of living the last four years, and even before, without being assured of his open and honest intimate conversation, his honesty with regard to his committment to you and your marriage, and your fear of the future with him.

Still and all Kim I feel now that he must be really unfomfortable right now with this. It almost seems like a contest. I have to tell you that if Char and I were in this situation, I would be extremely uncomfortable too. I would advise her to shut down for awhile and I would take a time out and take her on a retreat. I mean physically a retreat to discuss where were are now, and more importantly, do we really want to stay married and why. It could be a weekend MB, a religious retreat, or something else, but pretty much structured. You two really need intimate time now. You two need to hash this out because you two are the only two people in the world who can resolve this. I feel that what you are doing now is obtaining alot of support for your existing resentments. I think that the issue of the gawking was the that infamous straw that broke the camel.

Ya know what, I have traits that my wife has wished I hadn't over the years. I'm not that observant honestly when it comes to trying to guess her 'hints', and sometimes not noticing she has changed her hair, or even realizing she is angry with me and not knowing why. Sometimes she has said I am too stoic and non-conversant when she wants to converse and gets cutsy and teasy and I am too worried or focused on some things in my daily life to respond the way she would like. And of course there is my alcoholism which she had to endure for many years, and my excuses and dishonesty during that time. She was always willing to confront me about these things. Thru her I was encouraged to change, which I did. But, it took many many intimate conversations between Us. We were both in joint counseling for a few years due to both my alcohilism and her manic depression. We both had much advice and many opinions. The bottom line was tho how much did we love each other and how much were we both willing to change ourselves. How much were we both willing to learn to not engage in behavior that made the other uncomfortable. In terms of her manic depression Kim that is a little more difficult to change, but it meant for me to make our home as relaxed and safe as possible to prevent her from undue anxiety, and for her it meant to take her medication as prescribed and to learn ways to relieve stress and.

I guess the bottom line Kim is that at this point you need to have a heart to heart with him once and for all. I don't feel that at this time you are going to accomplish that much in a public forum. Just imho and based on my experience that heart to heart needs to be done in a more soothing and comfortable environment. And, that is why I suggested a retreat. After that I believe you will know how much he is willing to change vs. the risk you feel now at staying in your marriege. It doesn't matter if your guy is P/A or not. He is a big boy. It matters how much he is willing to change for you given your help and guidance.

Good luck and prayers Kim,

Tom


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If Kim needs MisterJK to take a polygraph, then MisterJK needs to take the polygraph.

If he wants to stay married to JK and have a happy and fulfilling marriage, he needs to do whatever it takes...willingly and without hem-hawing around about it. In fact, I'd say he should be CHEERFULLY doing it!

IMHO, MisterJK acts as if everything will settle down and Kim will "get over it" after a while if he puts off doing what she needs him to do.

JK, you've mentioned that his mother had a horrible temper, although she loved her children very much. Could she have been one of those people who blow sky-high when angry; and, then, once the anger got out of her system, she went on with life as if nothing had happened?

For instance, was she the type of mother who pitched a screaming fit because the kids had made a mess, but then stepped in and cleaned it up herself without requiring the kids to clean it up? If that is the case, I think that MisterJK probably learned his behavior there...to just let things slide until the anger was over without having to actually do anything about it.

I think his resentment may be coming from the fact that you are no longer willing to let him get away with his crap. Well, I would want to say, "Put your big boy pants on and deal with it. I am NOT your mother!"


"Your actions are so loud that I can't hear a word you're saying!"

BW M 44 yrs to still-foggy but now-faithful WH. What/how I post=my biz. Report any perceived violations to the Mods.
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TJD is right

I am done bitching. Thanks everyone for all your help.

Last edited by JustKim; 06/08/10 07:25 AM.

BS: Me, 43
FWH: 50
EA/PA with My Friend Jan-Apr 06
DDay: 4/29/06
NC: email 5/1/06

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Kim - what's one thing you can do today that will build your confidence in your own personal worth, irrespective of what Mr. JK does or doesn't do today?

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Quote
OK. If I heard you correctly, you seem to both be saying to be patient. To give him time to undo habits and behaviors that he has had for all of his life.

Did I get that right?
You're doing good, missy smile

Quote
However...... I feel like he HAD a chance to do this already. It was called the last 4 years of recovery. Thats what I thought we were doing. I didnt know that what it was really called is "MJK has an affair, and then coasts and does as little as possible to recover his M to JK for four years all the while telling JK that all is well". And NOW he is going to step up?? Surely you can see the "yeah, right" in there?
You need to scratch the last four years. Sorry about that. You are building resentment over those years, feeling that you did all the work and MJK did nothing. Let that go. It's over. It's yesterday. You're starting again.

Onions. What would veggie soup or a good pot roast be without them? wink


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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The Harleys talk on MB radio about lying
MB Radio lying and trust

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Kim TJD has a way of making you angry (i know he helped me a lot too), but then you think about what he is saying and it was usually true. You and i both have bitched about our husbands faults for many years. What has that bitching got us? Nothing but heart ache and resentment therefore more bitching. And a vicious cycle. (like you, not throwing rocks at glass houses, you noticed i said we both)

What was hard for me to understand about what TJD kept saying was that i was focusing on him and i did not think i was, i thought i was focusing on how his behavior made ME feel.

We both know we can't change their behavior, but we can change ours, so like you did the other day and took your son and left at dinner, that was changing the way YOU acted towards his behavior, therefore HE noticed that something must have been wrong with HOW he did something, so hopefully then he realizes that and makes a change himself.

It took me a LONG LONG time to finally understand what TJD was saying and since i have implemented changes in ME, it has made changes in HIM.

When he does something that hurts my feelings i now walk away, right then and there, i do not wait and call him on it later, i walk away right then and there. It has then made him realize that what he did bothered me and he stops and thinks before he does things a little more now.

I am still working on myself because sometimes i just get upset when i feel like he is not listening to me or something, but i have been changing the way "I" deal with it and it too is bringing about changes in him.

It is still a work in progress for sure.....


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KA

that's a good question. I always wait for MJK to DO something. When he foes I feel better. When he doesn't I feel unloved

how sad that I don't know how to answer thisquestion


BS: Me, 43
FWH: 50
EA/PA with My Friend Jan-Apr 06
DDay: 4/29/06
NC: email 5/1/06

Recovering
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SC-

First, Im not mad at TJD. I appreciate his opinion and much of what he says is very valid- no worries there.

Second, I can see your point. Thank you.

Im going to stop posting on MB for awhile. Thanks everyone for all your help.

I wish you all the best and many blessings

JK


BS: Me, 43
FWH: 50
EA/PA with My Friend Jan-Apr 06
DDay: 4/29/06
NC: email 5/1/06

Recovering
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Originally Posted by JustKim
SC-

First, Im not mad at TJD. I appreciate his opinion and much of what he says is very valid- no worries there.

Second, I can see your point. Thank you.

Im going to stop posting on MB for awhile. Thanks everyone for all your help.

I wish you all the best and many blessings

JK

Sorry to hear this JK.

I wish you all the best too.......

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Hi JK,

I sincerely hope my post did not add to any of your discomfort. My primary feeling was that your two threads were getting to a push-pull situation.

Actually I think laying off here for a few days might be better now for the both of you, as long as he is willing to truely engage you in O&H Conversation and truely listen. The latter is in my opinion the most important right now, and that is entirely up to him.

Just best of luck and prayers,

Tom

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Originally Posted by JustKim
SC-

First, Im not mad at TJD. I appreciate his opinion and much of what he says is very valid- no worries there.

Second, I can see your point. Thank you.

Im going to stop posting on MB for awhile. Thanks everyone for all your help.

I wish you all the best and many blessings

JK

PS i forgot to add yesterday that i did not think you were mad at TJD, i just meant there were times when he posted to me on my thread and at the moment i would be so angry with what he posted, then after i would think about it for a few days i would realize he was right smile ...

I really hope that MrJK steps up to the plate for you.......

God Bless you all!!!!

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