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Originally Posted by tst
I'm sure she's Tellin' all her IRL and MB friends what a terrible H she has and how she deserves to have someone that will work as hard as she has to recover this marriage.

you'd be a bit WRONG about this, TST. At least this is not been my experience......and I talked to Lala last night. She does however have some very valid complaints that have been voiced for quite some time, before the resumption of the pot use and FB debacle. Which, btw, I knew about the FB but not about the exboyfriends part. I learned of this yesterday.....

W2S.....I will repeat again, the help you two need is BEYOND these boards. You need professional help. Call the Harleys.... Call the Harleys.....Call the Harleys....

You have TWO precious reasons to do this........(I reiterated this last night to Lala.....)

I am NOT on anyone side......I AM on the side of your marriage.....

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Originally Posted by not2fun
you'd be a bit WRONG about this, TST. At least this is not been my experience......and I talked to Lala last night. She does however have some very valid complaints that have been voiced for quite some time, before the resumption of the pot use and FB debacle.

In the face of drug use, i view this as little more than a distraction to the real problem. Pointing at him does not solve the problem, nor is it an excuse for dope smoking.

If want calls the Harleys for help, I will tell you what they are going to say: ADDRESS THE ADDICTION FIRST. The Harleys can't do anything about this marriage until that is stopped. She needs to be either in a treatment center or at Nar-Anon, and the marriage comes later.

not, as her friend, are you encouraging her to knock off the dope smoking?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by not2fun
Originally Posted by tst
I'm sure she's Tellin' all her IRL and MB friends what a terrible H she has and how she deserves to have someone that will work as hard as she has to recover this marriage.

you'd be a bit WRONG about this, TST. At least this is not been my experience......and I talked to Lala last night. She does however have some very valid complaints that have been voiced for quite some time, before the resumption of the pot use and FB debacle. Which, btw, I knew about the FB but not about the exboyfriends part. I learned of this yesterday.....

Not2fun, I have a great deal of respect for you and I'm treading lightly when I say this...... She has been tellin' you "half truths", which we both know is the typical MO of a wayward. Half truths or critically withheld information is really just lyin'. She has been bull$hittin' you not2fun. You might not want to beleive it, but she has.







Recovery began 10/07;

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Originally Posted by not2fun
[and I talked to Lala last night. She does however have some very valid complaints that have been voiced for quite some time,

not2fun, were you aware of her drug use? And if so, what you been doing about it? I am hard pressed to understand how you could maintain a "friendship" with someone who is an active addict. [read: wayward]


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Melody
not, as her friend, are you encouraging her to knock off the dope smoking?


Substance abuse trumps the marital problems. I lived with a drinker and dope user (WxH). It definitely stunted any hopes for recovery. I did not have the patience that Want has to stick it out (of course, my WH was continuing his wayward behavior and affairs) banghead.

The FB stuff was cruel. Just plain cruel. There is NO excuse. If you have VALID complaints than seek the appropriate help. I've got all kinds of complaints, but I don't make it a point to purposely HURT someone to solve the problem. That's a load of crap.


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Originally Posted by silentlucidity
The FB stuff was cruel. Just plain cruel. There is NO excuse. If you have VALID complaints than seek the appropriate help. I've got all kinds of complaints, but I don't make it a point to purposely HURT someone to solve the problem. That's a load of crap.

ITA SL, no matter what things are going on and especially since she has been to MB and now knows that slippery slope, this was just a slap in W2S's face for sure.

I have had more complaints than i can count in my soon to be 25 years of marriage, yet i don't try to purposely hurt anyone either. And i do not even have an FB account, much less one where i talk to ex anythings and delete my conversations and i was NOT the wayward. This is JUSTIFICATION at it's finest.

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Originally Posted by tst
Not2fun, I have a great deal of respect for you and I'm treading lightly when I say this...... She has been tellin' you "half truths", which we both know is the typical MO of a wayward. Half truths or critically withheld information is really just lyin'. She has been bull$hittin' you not2fun. You might not want to beleive it, but she has.

Sorry Not but i agree with tst....

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Originally Posted by JustKim
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Something just doesn't feel right to me and I'm tired of pretending everything is OK.

Oh boy. Man, does that hit home for me as well. Something that you just cant quite put your finger on but you KNOW there is something wrong. I live with that feeling nearly every day. It is gut wrenching and I am so sorry for you.


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For someone that has not had an A, FB is a huge red flag. For some that has had an A, knows MB principles and was given a second chance, it is down right disrespectful, spiteful, mean and cruel. All in the name of getting back at me for taking a stand against her drug use. It is so obvious to me now how she ended up in an A in the first place over some perceived neglect in our M. Say goodbye to any trust that has been rebuilt.

I understand this very well. Whatever self esteem or security you might have rebuilt now seems like a sham, doesnt it? I certainly sounds to me like you are upholding YOUR end of the bargain. You are staying in the M, wading through the muck and mountains of pain and opening yourself up to trusting again.

LaLa, however... has fallen far short. Like my own H - she speaks words but her behavior is dishonest. To me, the WS needs to demonstrate THROUGH ACTIONS that are concrete that you are safe. LaLa has, through her actions, demonstrated the exact opposite. What a cowardly, passive aggressive way to handle a situation. Im struggling with some dishonesty in my M myself so I really feel for you.

Im going to put the next paragraph in bold. It is a painful sotry for me to tell but really really relevent .

my previous husband died of a THC related heart attack. He was 39 years old . There is not a person alive that can convince me that marijuana is a "harmless" drug. IT IS NOT. The is NOTHING harmless about it. It alters dopamine levels and causes a state of chemical imbalance in the brain. It has been linked to bipolar states, in that it can bring on manic and depressive states in a person not known to suffer from either disorder previously.

W2S - you cant have a relationship with this woman until she gets herself together. My previous M ended and he died alone at 39 because he never quit.

JK,

Thanks for the advice and support. Actually, you posting of your struggles is what finally promted me to post of mine/ours. I've had this post written for about 2 weeks, but I was waiting while you got help to post. I do want this to work out. I want a better M and that was the point of posting.

LaLa is clean and sober. Not only that, but I believe through her actions that she does intend to stay that way. It's the underlying unresolved issues that made it so important that I'm concerned about. She recently went back on ADs to deal with the rage she feels inside. I do feel for her and know why she feels the escape is neccessary, but this is a band-aid fix and not what I need to feel safe. We need to do this together, which I am more than willing to do. I can't force her though. I'm trying to do the right thing and make things better.

Want2Stay

p.s I'm super slammed at work with a looming deadline, so I apologize if my responses are a bit sporadic.


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Originally Posted by not2fun
and I talked to Lala last night. She does however have some very valid complaints that have been voiced for quite some time, before the resumption of the pot use and FB debacle.
Then why not come here and tell her side of the story? redflag

I agree with tst ~ the fact that she told W2S the M was over for posting here sounds like a wayward that freaks out after exposure. redflag

((W2S)) I am very sorry to read about the FB thing. I can't imagine how much that must have hurt. I know men are different than women, but this would be all too much for me ~ I would move on and focus on a personal recovery at this point.


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Quote
Thanks Not...I really appreciate the support. Really we get about 90% of it right. It's the other 10% that is screwing things up. Something just doesn't feel right to me and I'm tired of pretending everything is OK. We need to make some changes.

90%??? Are you kidding me? Being a drug addict, enabling a drug addict, walking all over your BS, having a FB account with exBFs, telling your BS that he just needs to "get over it", not using POJA, not using PORH, being a CAer...means you are getting 90% of it right?

Sorry to be harsh but W2S you need to wake up...your M is getting 90% of it WRONG, not right.



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She does however have some very valid complaints that have been voiced for quite some time, before the resumption of the pot use and FB debacle.

Not...you are listening to and believing a wayward drug addict about these things? Really?

W2S, if you know what Not is talking about here, please post it so that an unbiased opinion can be given from those of us here. This is only fair to both you and LaLa.


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4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
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Originally Posted by MarriedForever
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She does however have some very valid complaints that have been voiced for quite some time, before the resumption of the pot use and FB debacle.

Not...you are listening to and believing a wayward drug addict about these things? Really?

W2S, if you know what Not is talking about here, please post it so that an unbiased opinion can be given from those of us here. This is only fair to both you and LaLa.

MFer,

I believe that LaLa would say that I have made zero changes in R. That I have put in no effort. That I was deliberately withholding love and not meeting her ENs. To which I say, I have done the best I could under the circumstances. I have tried to meet LaLa's ENs of conversation and admiration and I have never withheld love or affection from her intentionally. Have I had a hard time investing in the R with everything that has been going on? Yep....tremendously, but I was/am trying to improve our M for the better.

Want2Stay


BS-me 36
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DS-7 & DS-3
PA - 7/06-8/06
EA - 6/06-1/07
D-Day: wife confessed 2-17-07, suspected 8-02-06
Broke NC: 2-19-07, 3-24-07, 5/07
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W2S, IMO, you will continually be disappointed and triggered so long as LaLa continues with the drug abuse. YOU will not feel safe to give to her until THAT problem is solved....and I don't just mean quitting the use, but getting real help and starting a path to TRUE recovery.



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Originally Posted by Want2Stay
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
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She does however have some very valid complaints that have been voiced for quite some time, before the resumption of the pot use and FB debacle.

Not...you are listening to and believing a wayward drug addict about these things? Really?

W2S, if you know what Not is talking about here, please post it so that an unbiased opinion can be given from those of us here. This is only fair to both you and LaLa.

MFer,

I believe that LaLa would say that I have made zero changes in R. That I have put in no effort. That I was deliberately withholding love and not meeting her ENs. To which I say, I have done the best I could under the circumstances. I have tried to meet LaLa's ENs of conversation and admiration and I have never withheld love or affection from her intentionally. Have I had a hard time investing in the R with everything that has been going on? Yep....tremendously, but I was/am trying to improve our M for the better.

Want2Stay

If this is her complaint, then SL is correct...she is not entitled to unconditional love.

Furthermore she is dreadfully foggy if this is her attitude. One can be wayward without being in an actual A and it sounds like this is the case for LaLa.


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4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
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I do not believe that you can even be in the right frame of mind to critically think about YOUR part in a problem and fix said problems if you are not sane and sober. That requires personal recovery first. Meanwhile, your spouse is waiting in the sidelines....unfair, but that's the way it crumbles...


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Originally Posted by Want2Stay
MFer,

I believe that LaLa would say that I have made zero changes in R. That I have put in no effort. That I was deliberately withholding love and not meeting her ENs. To which I say, I have done the best I could under the circumstances. I have tried to meet LaLa's ENs of conversation and admiration and I have never withheld love or affection from her intentionally.

It is impossible to meet the needs of an addict anyway. It is a bottomless pit that will wear you out. Her drug addiction is a huge lovebuster that has to be addressed BEFORE you can ever begin to work on the marriage.

That is why I view all this talk about want2stay's side of the street as a distraction.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Melody
That is why I view all this talk about want2stay's side of the street as a distraction

Agreed banghead


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Originally Posted by Resonance
Intro:

Dr. Willard Harley is the creator of this website, its concepts and plans to restore a loving and romantically fulfilling marriage, even from the brink of disaster. Dr. Harleys concepts are unique in that they deal with this wayward mindset as a TEMPORARY STATE OF MIND. It is in this understanding that you can begin to find strength by means of ACTION and IMPLEMENTATION, rather than feeling helpless and hopeless.

To do this, you must understand that your situation is NO DIFFERENT than MOST others who have recovered or are recovering. While each couple has slightly different sets of circumstances to work around, MOST fit within the framework of the plans offered here.

**It is important to note that Dr. Harley does NOT recommend portions of his plans in some cases. Specifically where ALCOHOL/ DRUG ABUSE or PHYSICAL ABUSE is concerned, Plan A is NOT recommended, and the BS should protect themselves and their children immediately from this threat. Plan A has been called a disaster by Dr. Harley in these environments because the sickness of the WS must be dealt with FIRST before the marriage (M) can begin to be repaired. Plan A actually ENABLES further abuse in these situations and the BS is urged to seek professional and/or legal assistance IMMEDIATELY.


Right out of the mouth of the wayward, and onto the MB pages!

Sooo, Resonance, aka. lala has been smokin' weed for over a year...... now she is upset that DH has called her out on this behavior and she says..... "He hasn't been meeting my needs".


She KNEW exactly the choice she was making.
Heck, she was advising others to RUN, seek a professional, etc.!

She is still a typical wayward con.

Last edited by tst; 06/11/10 12:46 PM. Reason: added a line




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W2S

Jeez. I hate to think ANYONE is watching my thread and hoping for some clarity. Im a terrible example of MB recovery ( or lack thereof ).

I so feel for you and agree with most. Your W has to stay sober, which you are saying she is at present? OK. Hard to believe, but OK.

Dont sweep it under the rug, though W2S. I know how easy it is to do that. I did it for years in my previous M which resulted in disaster and I do it all the time in my current M.

And your 90% comment? I GET what you are saying. I do. It might not make sense to most but it does to me. MJK and I are 90% too. What that means to me ( and might mean to you ) is we have a GREAT M and R if I choose to ask for nothing and accept whatever MJK gives me. If I choose to just go along. Then, we are 90%. We are super affectionate, have great SF, have alot in common and common interests - share a similiar profession. On the surface we look pretty close to perfect. Its only when I lift the lid and look under the covers that I see all the dysfunction.

I *think* that is what you are saying?

I have to run but want to post more to you later. Hang in there, broheim.



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DDay: 4/29/06
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Originally Posted by tst
Plan A actually ENABLES further abuse in these situations and the BS is urged to seek professional and/or legal assistance IMMEDIATELY.[/color]

This is what I have said ALL ALONG. I have been very specific on here about this.......I have been very specific about this off boards with Lala as well......for a very long time. No I am not her enabler. No I have not condoned these actions. In fact, when she was spinning this otherwise, I was very clear on my points about. I will re-iterate what I have stated on here and to Lala...I am on the side of the marriage and recovery, including personal recovery.......

The problems run much deeper than these boards can handle......for BOTH of them....

None of what I wrote above is meant as a disrespect or dispute of you TST. My respect and care of you and SMB runs very deep. I will also attest that as far as chemical addiction is beyond my realm of experience, while it is not so much beyond yours...... grin

Not

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