Want, and I am talking about TODAY and what needs to happen first. What needs to happen first is that the addiction is addressed and resolved. That can only happen if she gets treatment. In 12 step groups, for example, only the first step is about quitting. The other 11 are focused on resolving the living problem that led to the addiction in the first place. Until that is addressed, nothing really changes and the addict continually relapses.

I understand you are not perfect. But discussing that is a distraction until the addiction problem is resolved. When the Titanic is sinking the first step is to right the ship and THEN worry about the knocking noise from the engine room.

MFer,

I don't think she will come here. She believes that I have unfairly, underhandedly, and cruely painted her as an addict and nothing she says or does is going to change anyone's opinion here.

I hope she engages in this discussion, but hope is not a plan. I'm sticking to my plan....

Want2Stay

ML,

I know it is a distraction, but I wanted to answer MF's question. I'm focused on what is happening TODAY.

Want2Stay

Gotcha!

which is what? I have yet to see a PLAN from you......what exactly your plan?

I'm big believer in having a plan. I learned very well about those......I also learned what NOT having a plan avails you.......

So what is it?

So she disagrees that she is an addict, is that what you are saying W2S?

W2S

Exact conversation with the WW 50 days of not drinking alcoholic last night after she talked non stop about the wrongs of Nesre for about 15 minutes. At one point I told her to come up for air!

WW alcoholic has not drank for 50 days but also is still in the fog of how the A and alcoholism has affected the entire family.

Up until DD and I left I could not tell the difference between the two. Both mixed into the M with major devastation. The crazy making still continues on as long as she "does not get it".

Until she "Does get it" (R from alcoholism & becomes rependiant about A) there is nothing to go back for unless crazy making is my goal. Continued heartache?Trying to ride a dead horse?

The greater of these at the moment is the R from Alcoholism.
Not just not drinking. True recovery involves EMPATHY. LIVING AMMENDS. NO SWEEPING PAST ISSUES UNDER THE CARPET.
It does affect the whole family and I would urge you strongly to work with a professional who dealS with addictions specifically.

UNTIL TRUE REOVERY FROM THE OTHER ADDICTION IS IN PLACE I SEE YOU ALONG WITH ME IN THE SAME BOAT.

WHAT ARE YOUR BOUNDERIES AND WHAT IS YOUR PLAN? ARE YOU PREPARED TO CARRY OUT THE CONSEQUENSES?

PROBABLY NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR. SHOULD YOU CHOOSE TO GO INTO IT KEEP YOUR EYES WIDE OPEN KNOWING IT CAN BE UGLY.

NESRE

1. Get LaLa clean and in a recovery program
2. Work the MB program the right way this time either through the online course or the coaching center. Which ever we can afford is fine by me. It will make the budget tight, but our family and this M is worth it.

Step 2 wasn't an option until step one was met. Seems like we may be headed in the right direction.....finally.

Want2stay

Wanted to address this first:


This isn't "your job", W2S. Remember all the talk about boundaries? You are overstepping yours...this is HERS to deal with. You can only control YOU. Remember?

Work your side of the fence. YOUR boundary needs to be "I will not stay in a M with an addict", IMNSHO.

That frees you up to allow her to deal with HER mess. She said on her thread that she will get into an addiction program. GREAT!!!! She should do that and you should SUPPORT her ~ not "force" her to go, not set ultimatums. Do not make excuses for her to miss meetings, do not encourage her to do so for the sake of "UA time". UA time is cr*p with an addict; she needs to get and stay clean FIRST ~ then UA time will matter. Right now it's a waste anyhow because of her addicted, wayward mindset.

She needs to do this on her own, W2S...without you "making her". Let her prove to you she is a big girl; I believe she can do it.

But...you need to let her.

MFer,

Thanks for reminding me of my role. This isn't mine to own.

Want2Stay

THANK YOU.....THANK YOU......THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I beyond a shadow of a doubt can say that I have not asked a single direct question about the A since 3 months after d-day. Which was 4/07. I have, like you said, expressed how events or actions have triggered me to those memories. I always felt like not speaking of the A completely was impossible. How else are you supposed to tell your spouse not to hurt you. You can't dance around it like the events never happened. Now I know why. This clears so much up for me. THANK YOU!!!!!!!

Want2Stay

I would be interested in what YOUR boundaries in regards to drug use in your presence, in your home and in your marriage.

It was mentioned on LaLa's thread that you gave her permission to start using again. What are you doing NOW to prevent yourself from enabling and aiding in the destruction of your future together? I don't mean what are you THINKING of doing, but what actions are you taking to change your poor choices and behaviors. You really do need to be invested in your own side of the street now, more than ever, if you want your marriage to recover; if YOU want to recover.

The truth is out now, about LaLa's waywardness and her poor choices, so she can get the guidance she needs. Now it's time for you to focus on you. Whether you and LaLa remain together, your children will benefit from you getting your head together and making healthier decisions about what you allow in your lives and how you conduct yourself. How can you teach your children that drug use is bad...is wrong, if you condone it in your own home? That's like being a smoker, but telling your kids it's bad for them and not to smoke (my mom tried this one).

I understand what this has all done to you, and how tired you are, but you WILL feel soooo much stronger and happier when you take care of yourself and get YOUR head clear and own YOUR stuff....and we all got stuff

IMO, you and LaLa BOTH have to start personal recovery before you can begin making healthy decisions for your future. You have to AT LEAST start, so you can stop hurting each other.

SL,

My boundary is that drug use will not ever take place in my presence or in our home again. I was part of the problem for a long time admittedly. Smoking dope was something LaLa and I had done together since the beginning of our relationship 14 years ago. There was always a difference though. I was the co-dependent enabler. Once the wool was pulled from my eyes I saw it for what it was and there has been no going back for me.

I did tell LaLa she could get some smoke Christmas break. I told her that I thought it was a bad idea that it was potentially going to trigger me. At the same time, I thought that it was something we had always done together and maybe it would be a chance for us to cut loose and bond together the way we did when we first met. She promised and swore up and down that it would be just enough for that weekend. I bought it hook line and sinker. It never stopped after that day and within a month and a half she was back to smoking several times per day everday.

I've changed immensely since then. I've read pretty much everything I could find on addiction on the net. I'm learning that I've been a CA avoiding, Co-dependent enabler most of my adult life. I've been clean for over a year. I've taken a more active role in our children's lives helping to coach our ODS's baseball team. I've taken over the roll as disciplinarian. I'm more engaged in all aspects of my life.

I FEEL great having taken these steps. There's still plenty of my own issues that I need to work on, but getting the M back on track was my #1 priority.

I'm gonna have to think about what issue I'm going to tackle next.

Want2Stay

That sounds like real progress, but YOUR relapse was such a short time ago, I just want to be sure that you are working hard to maintain good boundaries AND enforcement.

It's easy to say what a boundary is, difficult to enforce the consequence when necessary. I am very glad to hear that you are not using. Do you feel as if your own use should be dealt with?

The biggest problem with even a teeny amount of pot is the side effect of "I don't care". Your family cannot afford even a teeny amount of "I don't care" in your lives - your children have suffered enough and so have you - and in her own way Lala too - but hers is self-inflicted.

I would recommend a thorough study of the 12 step program for yourself as an Anon - and get a sponsor to find out your own inventory.

I once saw a life coach confront someone who was in a snit about addicts in the room slowing down the process of the event and when he jumped her case he told her "You are just as addicted as they are - yours just don't smell the same."

I learned the truth of that phrase when I went through my own recovery program; that anons are addicted to addicts because they get to look better - more patient, more tolerant, heroic, etc.

Stop giving yourself that out and get into recovery so that you stand on your own GOOD behavior rather than just looking good in light of Lala's bad behavior!

I have this same boundary, for my ADULT child who does not live with us.

My drug/alcohol use boundary for my HUSBAND is quite different.

I will not tolerate drug or alcohol use.
Period.
What damn good is your weak boundary if LaLa walks down the street, smokes a doobie, then comes home loaded?

Tighten this one up.
She should not be using at all.

No, not really. I was scared straight and it was never something I did on my own. It was an activity I did with LaLa. Much different than how LaLa used it to cope with everyday life. I will leave it to her though. If she believes I should also work a program I will.

Want2stay

No no no!! You need to work a program for your own good because you are in a relationship with an addict and you enable her and you compensate for her behaviors.

Stop giving her control over your personal recovery!!!!!!

Work a program for YOU W2S!!! We are not talking about LaLa anymore. Now it's time to get your head extracted from YOUR hindquarters and fix your own poor behavior and coping skills.

You don't smoke, but you USE...you use LaLa to hide behind.

Coaching a son's bball team does not a recovered CA/enabler make.

If LaLa fell off the face of the earth tomorrow (which I do not want...so don't go there) then you would still have YOUR issues. Step outside your comfort zone and fix YOU.

I've attempted to find a NAR-Anon program to join. I was really shocked that the meetings are so far a few between. LaLa and I live in the country pretty far away from any large cities so the nearest meeting is once per week and is about a 45 minute drive one-way. It takes place on Saturday evenings at 6:30 pm which is prime UA time for LaLa and I.

I've read pretty much all the material online available through Nar-anon and have attempted to find an online support group.

I should dig deeper and find a solution to this problem. Thanks for pointing it out.

Want2Stay