Washissunshine: Recovery Thread...Ouch. This is painful!!

Time for me to start a recovery thread. It's been 58 days since we termed ourselves "in recovery".

Every day is a challenge. I am constantly thinking about how I can work on our marriage...am I doing every thing Dr. Harvey recommends. FWH is also working on himself, but I never quite feel like he is working as hard as I am. He rarely assess what he is doing, how he is doing, how we are doing, how I am doing. I understand this is partly a personality difference, but I sometimes feel it should be shouldered more by him than by me.

We have had a couple conversations in the last 2 days that have left me worn down and sad. I was finishing His Needs/Her Needs and asking him about portions of the book. I find myself hoping his answers are different than what Dr. Harvey says they will be. They never are.

FWH says he will find himself counting to see how many days it has been since he has seen OW; that he will wonder what she would do if he found a way to see her or what she would do if he called. I asked him last night if he is still in love with her. He did his best to avoid the question and finally answered "I feel differently about her than I do about my other friends, so I guess that would be yes".

Dr. Harvey says FWH will be vulnerable to OW his whole life. This is crushing to me. Knowing that my husband loved/loves another woman, and will love her forever after is a continued devasating issue.

We have tried the 15+ hour schedule. Husband feels this just adds stress to our time together. He has expressed feeling exhausted by our trying so hard. He wants it just to come naturally. He has said sometimes he feels like he just needs some down time. Dr. Harvey says something to this effect in the book.

FWH has changed jobs but is still working in a close proximity to OW. I have put multiple check ups in place and am sure he is not seeing her, but it is a constant worry. I do not want to move because! my family is here, but I am wondering if I will feel like this forever.

So I guess my questions is...how do you accept that the man who committed his life to you has loved another, loves another, and will be tempted by her for the rest of his life?


NeverGuessed: Re: Recovery Thread...Ouch. This is painful!!

A man infinitely more wise than I could pretend to be once said:

SUCCESS IS NOT A MEASURE OF WHERE WE ARE, BUT OF HOW FAR WE HAVE COME.

I read your posting (and salute you on your courage) and scanned your timeline (and salute you on your persistance) and would ask you to consider your situation in light of the quotation above.

YES - your husband had an A - but he ultimately chose you, established NC, and appears to be maintaining it.

YES - it seems that your husband is struggling with fully recommitting to your marriage - but at least he's struggling with something that is worthwhile and positive.

YES - you see his struggles - but he evidently trusts you enough to reveal them to you.

I urge you to assess your situation not in terms of some standard of marital bliss, but in terms of the progress the two of you have made, are making, and will make.


Mrs_Vanilla: Re: Recovery Thread...Ouch. This is painful!!
WHS -

They say it's hard. You know it's hard. But you're reminded every day of just how much harder it is to recover a marriage after infidelity - and nothing could prepare you for it.

I like NeverGuessed's view of the situation. You will wear yourself out even more if you judge things at this point against some standard of marital bliss. Much better for the marathon to celebrate how far you've come instead.

Keep at it, and keep that bar high.


Washissunshine: Re: Recovery Thread...Ouch. This is painful!!
Thanks for the encouragement. Some days are worse than others

Another question - In many of the articles and books Dr. Harvey says not to bring up past mistakes, not to bring up the affair because it is a LB. When reading this stuff and asking him to read this stuff I don't see a way to avoid it. I know he doesn't like reading the books because it just reminds him of what has happened, but how can we work on things if he hasn't gotten all the information?


ImStaying: Re: Recovery Thread...Ouch. This is painful!!
Originally Posted By: Washissunshine
Dr. Harvey says FWH will be vulnerable to OW his whole life. This is crushing to me. Knowing that my husband loved/loves another woman, and will love her forever after is a continued devasating issue.

I was a WH one year ago. I had plans to leave my BW, get a place with OW, who I thought I loved and wanted to be with. But last June, I decided to recommit to my M with my W.

I am not "vulnerable" to OW. I have seen her twice (at events with my W) at a distance and I can say I feel nothing for her. Was I triggered? Only in the sense that I was nervous that she might be there. I was not triggered in terms of feeling like I wanted her or ! had any fond feelings whatsoever.


Quote:
So I guess my questions is...how do you accept that the man who committed his life to you has loved another, loves another, and will be tempted by her for the rest of his life?

So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't buy in to the fact that he will be in love with her for life. Could he be vulnerable - yes he could. The Dr. Harley quote above is very thought provoking and I would like to know if we can post this to the SAA board where we'll get more comments???


Washissunshine: Re: Recovery Thread...Ouch. This is painful!!
Fine with me if the moderators are okay with it. I assume they are the ones that do that?


ImStaying: Re: Recovery Thread...Ouch. This is painful!!
You can move it, or start a new one. I'm most interested in everyone's comments on Dr. Harley's quote.

Sorry....this is kind of confusing. Wasn't sure how to move it from recovery site. Main issue:

"Dr. Harvey says FWH will be vulnerable to OW his whole life. This is crushing to me. Knowing that my husband loved/loves another woman, and will love her forever after is a continued devasating issue"

"So I guess my questions is...how do you accept that the man who committed his life to you has loved another, loves another, and will be tempted by her for the rest of his life"

and

"Another question - In many of the articles and books Dr. Harvey says not to bring up past mistakes, not to bring up the affair because it is a LB. When reading this stuff and asking him to read this stuff I don't see a way to avoid it. I know he doesn't like reading the books because it just reminds him of what has happened, but how can we work on things if he hasn't gotten all the information"

We are ALL VULNERABLE to an A. Especially with anyone that we have loved before.

I disagree that Dr. harley said he will love her forever. In STA it states that people will eventually see the A as what it was. I think Sue testamonial in the end stated that also. Waywards think that their OP is their soulmate because its all sunshine and lollypops when they are bathing in the sewer. In reality once the lights are turned on they see the damage they have caused.

Folow the plan. Meet EN and avoid LBs. you will recapture your lost love for him and his for you.



It takes time to over come the trust issues. you have to see positive changes in him. Not just lip service. If he is willing to become a buyer in your M it will become easier.

Trust must be earned.

I dont know your story. Did he answer all your questions on the A? If those are lingering you cant feel safe. Did you establish EP? Once again you have to be confident the A is over to feel safe.



He first must ANSWER all your questions about the A. you cant just pretend it never happened. You also cant let it be the only thing you talk about.

Write down all the questions you have. Schedule a time to talk about it. Set a timer for either 30 minutes or an hour (can practive POJA to figure out the time). Discuss the A only during these preset times.

Your goal is to fall back in love. These questions must be answered but it is a LB. Scheduling them minimizes its effect.

You cant constantly throw it in his face though. If you do something wrong and he wants to talk about it you can point the finger at him and say "well you had and affair with OP. thats a billion times worse".

I think thats what Dr H is trying to say.

BTW be careful about calling him a "FWH" 40ish days does not a recovery make. That title is earned. You still need to stay vigilent with the EPs to ensure NC.

It's really early for you two, so I'd say your H is certainly vulnerable to OW at this point. I do believe that, over time, that will fade. My FWH has ZERO interest in OW, and it's been like that for quite some time. Does that mean I'd be OK having her in his presence? Not for one second! But I do believe he is long over her, and sees her for what she was.

I believe Dr. Harley is wise to advise that there be no contact forever, not just to prevent a rekindling, but as a protection to the BS from the anxiety of having to worry about it.

As for discussing the A, Dr. Harley says that once the BS's questions have been answered, it should not be mentioned again. I know there are some here who have been able to discipline themselves never to bring it up. I am not one of them. It comes up less and less, though, and at this point (a couple of years into recovery), it doesn't have the "punch" it used to have. Just yesterday, in fact, my H brought it up and we had a short conversation that ended with us both laughing. I never thought I'd see the day... but it proves that we CAN get beyond the pain. Thanks be to God.

As the posters above reiterated, I think Dr. Harley's quote may have been misunderstood, or at least taken out of context. As a BS, you should presume that WH is vulnerable, which is why NC is paramount. That does not necessarily mean that he will love her forever.

As for your WH's comment, this shows that he is very foggy still. I hope that he snaps out of it and begins to view the A with Skanko as the disgusting behavior that it is/was.

Same thing here. I am at 15+ months past d-day. I brought up the A one time in the past three months - last weekend, and I wasn't proud of myself for doing so because I was LBing with it.

The critical difference for us was that H has answered every single question I've asked - completely and fully. Once that happens, there's a definite loss of 'punch'. It just loses so much power.

I know it's a DJ to assume what someone else was/is thinking, so let me be clear that this is only a guess as to why Dr. H phrases some of the things he does the way he does.

Suppose, instead of saying that a WS was "in love" with the AP, he said "infatuation", "in heat", "in lust", or something like that. I think a lot of people, especially still-foggy waywards just starting to try and earn their "F" would bog down in that.

"AAAAAAAAHHHHHH, is wasn't lust - we were in lurve!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

And thus completely miss the point of what he was trying to say.

I think there are many times he deliberately puts his message into commonly accepted, though inaccurate terms, simply to avoid getting their backs up over a side issue and rejecting what he has to say entirely.

Then he leaves it to Mel to finish straightening them out.

So no matter what your WH thinks about being in luv with the OW, he isn't now, never has been, and never will be. It was all lust and selfishness - a far cry from the holy bond he shares with you.

And I think what Dr. H was trying to get at when he talks about the FWS always being vulnerable to their AP...no matter how far they come, and how great their disgust for the things they did and the way they became, those lustful feelings could still be rekindled at any point they have another contact with the XAP. It's just how our brains work.

Because the AP was initially associated with such a powerful rush of brain drugs, seeing them or hearing from them can trigger that flood again. At first it would be tempered with disgust, but if cherished, the disgust would quickly fade.

An old-timer FWW bumped into her XOM, was flattered by how he still felt about her, and next thing you know they're meeting for coffee and she's waffling (read: refusing) to quit or tell her BH about the resumption of contact.

That story could have had a much different ending without the intervention of a good friend who exposed to the BH what was happening.

Point is, man or woman, young or old, any FWS does remain vulnerable and that's why NC is vital.

Why do you stay with someone like that? Because they show you day in and day out for the rest of their lives that they are protecting that weakness.

Would you be crushed if a drug and alcohol counselor told you that your H would forever be vulnerable to alcohol because he's an aloholic? Probably not.

This is the same thing...it doesn't mean an alcoholic is "in love" with alcohol, only that he is addicted to the feel-good chemicals he gets from it.

It was interesting, long before I had found MB (and during the FR) my H said to me "It was the weirdest thing...there wasn't anything "there" but it was like an addiction". I didn't understand it at the time since I had not found MB but once I DID find MB it all made perfect sense. My H certainly has that addictive personality so it was even easier for him to fall into an A.

Not only that, Sunshine, but...your H will not feel like this forever. My H has told me over and over again that even the thought of C makes him nauseous and from the look on his face when he says this, it's true.

Keep spending your 15 hours together and this will be true for you too.

P.S. my H just said to a good friend of ours who is also going through this "Spend as much time together as possible...I can honestly tell you that since all of this has happened, MF is truly my best friend and I would so much rather spend time with her over anyone or anything else".

My response? <Swoon!>

This is how important UA time is...combine that with avoiding LBers and meeting ENs and you have a golden formula.

First of all I just want to say I am a terrible blogger so I have stuff everywhere!! Sorry about that = )

In His Needs/ Her Needs "Alex will feel tempted to try to sneak away to meet Harriet again. No matter how well Elaine meets Alex's needs, he will remain in love with Harriet for some time to come...They can reignite the flames of their own love, but all their efforts may not completely extinguish the flame of love ignited by Alex's affair with Harriet. It may burn low, but it might never go out completely...Alex will remain vulnerable to Harriet for life and should not see her again. When I tell a wife that her straying husband will always be vulnerable to his lover, the typical reaction is one of dispair....You must accept the fact that your husband will be vulnerable to the other woman."

This is what I'm referring to.

My husband and I have talked about the A in detail. In fact he wrote it out, piece by piece.
He has changed jobs. I use a gps tracker on the car and recorder. He pings (gps) me from his cell phone throughout the day with his location. He has given me passwords to all his email (that I know of). He does not really use the computer at home so I haven't used a internet tracker there.

I guess I am looking for him to be trying to learn by reading and being on here. He is doing a great job of trying to fulfill my needs and changing that way, but never really checks in to see how I feel he is doing. Maybe my expectations are too high?

I always feel like I get such great advice and support here. I am so thankful for you all!

Why don't you start counseling with SH? He helped us tremendously to get onto a good path for recovery. That is the best thing you can do right now; worrying about this is fruitless and a waste of your energy. It WILL get better but you have to work the program to a tee.

We've worked with 3 different MCs. The current one we are using has seen us through our false recovery. (FR started Dec 09)
What is SH ?

No words of advice from me....but that is exactly one of hte issues I am having a difficult time with right now...just watned to say I understand how you are feeling....

We have tried many different MC's and by FAR the best was Steve Harley (SH). He has a way of really speaking to waywards in a logical sense that they understand. Trust me. WH always quit going to the counsellors or started thinking they were crap after the 3rd or 4th session, but with SH he's completely on board and enjoys the conversations.

Traditional MCs are generally a waste of time when dealing with infidelity. We saw three different ones as well and not one of them did as much as SH (Steve Harley) did in one session.

It is like giving up cigarettes.

At first it is a constant ache 24/7, then it's dozens of triggered situations------------ until finally it is pure revulsion.

Hang on tight the roller coaster levels out eventually

I have posed talking to SH to husband, but he's not jumping at the idea. I told him it's in his hands now. He says he doesn't like reading the information here and in the books because it is depressing...just reminds him of how he screwed up and almost lost me. This doesn't sound good, but he is doing a fairly good job at being transparent.

Unless he is willing to work on R you can pretty much be sure he will have another A down the road and not too far in the future. Sure it hurts him to confront what he did to you, but till he does he is at risk of doing it all over again.

He needs to committ to a plan. If he does not if is a red flag.
Blessing

We are doing the EN and LBs stuff. We've discussed all my questions. He's changed jobs. He seems like a dfferent man 85% of the time. BUT he has seemed different previously and there was still contact. It's hard to believe it is really over

Washi, I am not trying to rain on your parade but I just want to share my experience.
After my H first A we did parts of SAA together specifically the EN and the LBs. My H did those things, he was also reading poetry to me, going on romantic walks and making love in a romantic way. But he did not want to do IC or any other form of therapy, nor he wanted to do MC with Steve. He said that we should be able to figure those things out ourselves and that time and building good memories together will help in the long run.
Well not even 3 years later he was in an even filtier A that he was able to hide from me for more that a year. Needles to say I am in plan B with close to zero possibilities to R the M.
Blessing