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BTinTrouble #2389608 06/13/10 06:43 PM
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Well it must have just been meant to be that you got your new phone now smile .......

And yes it sucks that she is mad right now, but it is okay, she got mad about things before. And she has gotten over it (think about exposure).

Actually it may be a good thing, it means things are getting back to "normal".... whatever normal is crazy

BTinTrouble #2389610 06/13/10 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
We are clean.
I am eating and sleeping much better.
I think SF was a huge weight but thats much better now. Jennifer told us both to not worry about our own needs and to focus on our spouses ENs and meeting them.

We are both doing a pretty good job I think. Next appointment with Jennifer is tomorrow so we will get another good lesson there I am sure.

WW is still reading MB stuff when she gets time. We are getting 15+ hours a no problem right now.

This is also wonderful news, i am so glad for both of you!!!!!!!

BTinTrouble #2389847 06/14/10 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
Ok thanks Mel. In other news I dropped my phone in the tub while bathing my son. So new phone, had been planning to get a smartphone anyway soon, so now I am posting on MB from my phone and I have a new number.

K nother thing. WW is mad @ me cus she was trying to help me with this phone but I wasn't doing what she told me to do when she said it. She is being distant and doesn't want to talk about it.

Yay for fights

Keep meeting ENs and avoiding Love Busters. If you weren't enthusiastic about what she wanted you to do, it's okay if you didn't do it. Just don't Love Buster HER over it!

Also, dwelling on mistakes of the past or present is an enemy of good conversation, and I guarantee you guys need to be working on intimate conversation right now, so don't dwell on it any more than she wants to. Find something else to talk about. smile


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2390246 06/14/10 04:17 PM
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Ok, big update.

So today is 2 weeks since WW came home.

Since then we have had 2 phone sessions with Jennifer. We have a 3rd tonight. 1st session got me going on stop LBs, and WW going on what to expect during withdrawal and selling her on the marriage and getting her buy in and acceptance on what she did and how it affects trust and what is going to have to happen for her to earn it back. First week was ok. WW acquiesced to all EPs / snooping I wanted to do. She seemed happy at times and was at least pleasant the majority of the time. I did a fairly decent job of not egging on fights.

Second week with Jennifer saw us doing the ENQ, and composing "I'd love it if..." statements to instruct eachother on what we need to do to meet eachother's needs and build love. This second week has been pretty good over all.

1) Got questions answered, I feel like I know everything that is worth knowing about, when and how it happened, etc.
2) OM attempted contact and WW (per current phone bill evidence) apparently did NOT answer, just as she said
3) Have changed both WWs and my telephone numbers.
4) Sent package with 3 things that belong to OM along with an NC letter on Sun. Should arrive on Tues, with OM being the only person who can sign for it.
5) Tests coming back clean as well as a personal closeness means SF has become a presence again which is a huge weight off of me
6) We have had a few disagreements or fights, but have not gone to sleep angry with eachother as best I can tell.

Couple things that are popping up that annoy me. WW occasionally apologizes,

sort of...

Loading groceries in the car. She made a statement that thoroughly confused me so I asked for an explanation. "Shut up..." Later, after a long discussion where I basically said, "I do not appreciate being told to shut up, why did you say that?" Lots of explanations and justifications that I didnt even dispute, just repeated that I didnt "appreciate being told to shut up, why did you tell me to?" Finally, this came out:

"I'm sorry I told you to shut up, It's just, I couldnt think of any other way to make you stop asking me questions and its hot outside and you werent loading them the way I wanted and the groceries were going to get warmer, and I just didnt know another way to make you stop."

yeah... I do not appreciate apologies like that. Its NOT an apology. Its an

"I regret that you are at fault, and that you forced me to do something bad to fix you."

After I think the 3rd incident like this, I asked her why her apologies keep going after "I am sorry?" She said something about how I just dont understand things and she needs to explain them, so I stated that what I DO understand is that everything after "I'm sorry" that is an explantion is actually a justification and negates the value of any apology and that that is fine if she is not sorry, but then just dont say it unless you mean it. She got really mad and stopped talking to me for about 5 hours.

I have had a couple incidents where I have said something. When we went to get the phone numbers changed, I was asking if I could keep the numbers blocked that are blocked. The guy was saying it costs money, but the lady that did it for me over the phone had said it was free, so I was talking to the guy trying to understand what was going on. Something I said I guess came out "I dont want her to be able to talk to someone." She got upset because its me treating her like a grounded teenager in public, in front of people who dont need to know anything. I tend to agree, and it was not at all what I meant to convey. I apologized in a note, just a straight "Here is what I did, here is why its wrong, you dont deserve that, I am sorry, I will make every effort to not do it again." She was very happy to get this apology and we made up and it was all cool.

I have never had a problem saying, "oh snap, I was wrong... I am sorry, how can I fix it?" I even have done it here on the forums. Its in my signature. I wish she was able to do the same thing. When we met one of the first things she said to me was the second time we talked, "You said you'd email me yesterday." "Im sorry, I forgot, I had this and this and so on." "Look, I dont need excuses. I dont like them, if you did something own up to it and deal with it."

She used to be like that all the time. Is this just fog? She stopped before the A started, before we moved. I dont know where all this justification and excuses ever came from.

We were discussing something else, and I am trying very hard not to lecture, and to listen. So she is telling me what she thinks about something that I disagree with her about, and I listen to the whole thing. Not "let her talk," but actually listen and try to get what she is saying. After she gets done, I ask a few questions to clarify things and put a couple things in my own words and ask if I got it right and check to make sure I understand her. She says "Yes! you get it! See?" I respond saying that I still dont agree with her, and ask if I can offer my opinion (something she put as one of her "I'd like it if's..." for her Conversation). She says sure, but as soon as I start she gets frustrated and says "we arent supposed to keep going if it gets heated, so I dont want to talk about this anymore."

Than we stop... and never go back to it. I dont even remember what it was, and its not that it was trivial or didnt matter, its something that will come up again I am sure, but this method of "dealing" with things by getting upset and shutting down and not staying calm is getting very annoying.

Especially when I get partially understood MB things thrown back in my face, out of context, being used to justify inexcusable behavior.

I have always known, since we first met, that her abilities in managing difficult conversations are lacking at best, but I have never been this bent out of shape about it. Normally, it just flows off my back and I really dont care. I really dont remember them or make it a point to recall what she said that I disagreed with.

Now its like my patience is gone. I thought it was still there, I am still patient with our son, but when she opens her mouth and starts in I just dont seem to have any. I just have the self control that kept me going this whole time holding me back from doing anything stupid.

I like the rules for negotiation, but it just seems like we get stuck once we hit the part where I understand her viewpoint, but dont actually get to the part where she wants to understand my view. So then we dont even get to the part where we brainstorm ideas, nor do we pick a mutually agreeable one. The only time we get through the whole process is when I screw something up like, maybe I tell her I will do something, then forget to do it, and so obviously that is not ok, so we understand eachother because she is mad about it, and I recognize that I shouldnt say I am going to get her some water on the way back if I am not going to make sure I do it. Then I offer ideas for how to fix it, ask her if she has any, and we pick one.

All seems to go great.

But I am not wrong everytime. She might not be wrong either. We just dont agree. But if I dont agree with her, it seems like we get stuck at the "I understand her view" but she isnt interested in understanding mine.

Another thing, we were at Lowe's purchasing something. The card I used got declined because I had moved all the money. She got mad. I asked why she was mad? She said the fact that I had moved the money was rediculous, that she "never would have" done anything to take it. I told her, "There are many things you told me you would never do. You also chose not to come home, left our son with me, and chose to stay out with a liar and a cheat who had just lost his house, job, family, money and friends. How was I to know you wouldnt clean out the account at his suggestion and run off to Mexico? You can say you would never do that, but if you had been me, would you risk our sons next meal on trust in the same situation? What did you expect me to do?" She seemed to realize at that point and said "Well, I guess I am mad at myself." I asked if she would please refrain from taking her anger out on me. She hmmmphed and didnt talk to me for a bit. I said something nice to her later about "attitude is everything, we can move forward or stand still looking back." She thanked me, smiled, and was cheerful afterward.

However, this has happened a couple times, similar stuff, like she found our sons shot record, which used to be in her car, in one of my drawers. She asked what it was doing there. I said I took our sons stuff out of her car as soon as she got back so that if she tried to leave with him, she would have to come back to get his documents and such. I think another one was a comment she made about the bills. She used to handle paying them, but I cut her off of all the accounts, so she said something like, "Since you dont want me doing it anymore..." a few times. I exclaim that I LOVED that she would take care of those things for me, especially while I was deployed, that I dont like doing it, and that I htought she did a fantastic job. She asked what she has done to make me think she will do anything "bad?"

Really? ............ So hard to just stay silent and not explode with graphic and explicit descriptions of what precisely she had done, where, in what position, how long it lasted and so on and so forth. Its like she has some sort of deadline for how long I am "allowed" to not trust her. Less than 3 weeks ago she was having sex with another man in our bed......

Makes me so pissed off.

She sent me a fantastic email one day. She had been reading MB stuff, and sent me this:
"Thank you for having strength, courage, love, and dedication. It's been brought to my attention lately that our marriage means the world to you like it has the past 5 years. I feel the same now. I feel our marriage is my world. I want to consume all of my time to work on strengthening it and to make it feel invinsible again. I'm sorry you felt I was comparing my pain to yours the other day, I was only trying to say that it is the only pain I have to compare it to.... not compare it. I have no idea how much you hurt. I know I dont want to hurt you again. I feel horrible for hurting you. I wish that my love can be a big enough band aid for your heart but I have no idea if it will be. I wish for you to not give up and continue having the strength to get through this rought spot in our life. I want to life forever with you. I do love you."

That was very nice to have, and I keep it on my work email and my phone. There is more stuff, but I just posted the most relevant part, it was all very nice. I keep it and read it occasionally.

Just got this one today:
"Thank you for our beautiful boys. You've given me the most beautiful gift ever and I appreciate it so much. I love being the mother of your children. I promise I will always look out for our childrens well being. You are becomming one of the greatest fathers. I'm so proud of you. I hope you continue to enjoy being a dad. You're amazing."

So basically, I dont know. I still really want this to work, but we have things to fix from even before this whole move started.

I didnt meet most of her needs, she met most of mine, enough to keep me happy, but does not have a very proactive method of solving problems that doesnt include Angry Outbursts and DJs. Obviously these things need to be fixed. I was able to stay happy despite these love busters I think just because I didnt press the issue. My needs were being met ok, and since she didnt actively seek to fix things without using AO's and DJ's, it was easy to just ignore the issues she had, since I was happy anyway.

This is not fair to her, but its also not fair for her to continue acting like this if we expect to have a relationship based on mutual respect and love.

Ok, this was a huge vent. I would really appreciate any feedback.

Stop whining big baby, you are right shes terrible, she's right and you're an idiot, whatever you guys think. Any ideas to better deal with things?


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BTinTrouble #2390249 06/14/10 04:19 PM
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My wife is a genius, we got our new numbers passed... crises averted.

Last edited by BTinTrouble; 06/14/10 05:07 PM.

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BTinTrouble #2390275 06/14/10 05:00 PM
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BT, what really sticks out in my head when I read this was that maybe she does not correlate a connection between you moving money around because you were afraid she would take it all to Mexico, to actually taking it to Mexico. Meaning - you moving money around because of her A is lost on her. She does not see the direct connection. Just a thought.

You AO'd and DJ'd her pretty hard with that argument at Lowe's, IMHO.

I struggle the way your wife does in hard conversations. I also understand in way how you are feeling (my H had an EA, not the same, so not to pretend I totally understand your situation) and that you want her to feel remorseful and take everything you are saying into consideration and you just want her to fix it by doing everything you feel you need her to be doing to make YOU feel safer. I wanted my H to feel worse, apologize not just more, but the way *I* wanted him to, and if it was not good enough of an apology for me, I got upset. He was apologizing to the best of his abilities at the time. Saying you are sorry when you suck at it is HARD. I am the WORST apologizer in the world AND I am the worst at receiving them.

This is all new behavior she has to learn. It is hard to not DJ when it comes naturally. It is really hard to apologize effectively when you it does not come naturally. Hell, talking about anything uncomfortable is just plain painful, sometimes.

Like you said, it has been 3 weeks. You both have more to learn in regards to communicating with each other in a way you can both appreciate. Small steps...


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EA: 2 months, ending June 08
Married 7 years
4 kids (2 together)
Hoping for a Recovery
Gdar #2390330 06/14/10 06:24 PM
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thank you gdar!

I have a question about AO's (for anyone or gdar).

If I dont get angry, meaning, no change in tone, calm, level, not upset, is it an AO? Even if I am DJ'ing a ton and everything, is it an AO if I am not angry, dont call names, etc?

And a question about DJ's. The decision to move the money, as well as remove her access to all accounts and remove all abilities for her to be able to "run off" with anything was based on a total catastrophic destruction of trust by discovery of the A.

At the point of discovery, every single thing I thought I knew about WW went straight out the window, because every value, belief, and code of ethics she had ever espoused condemned having an affair under any circumstances. Basically she betrayed everything I thought I knew about her by doing this, and many of her friends and family that I talked to during exposure agreed, saying "thats not like her," or "I would never have thought SHE would do that," and so on.

I guess I dont feel like I made a DJ by acting as if there was in fact nothing she was not capable of doing, in light of the fact that she had just proven that was actually doing one of the things she had most vigorously condemned throughout the time I have known her.

If I had NOT taken those precautions, and she HAD cleaned out the accounts etc and run off, then where would my son and I be now?

But, if it is still a DJ, then I guess I am missing something about DJ's.

I guess I think of DJ's as assuming something about the other person that you dont really have any right to assume.

Like, if she taps her fingers, and it annoys me, and I assume she is doing it just to annoy me, when I have never actually told her that it annoys me.

Now, if I told her every day for the last 5 years that tapping her fingers annoys me, we go through an MB Plan to stop an Annoying Habit, and she successfully stops, and then she looks me in the eye and does it again today, then is it still a DJ to assume that she is in fact doing it just to annoy me? (this was just an example)

Gdar, I think you are definately right about the learning to communicate with eachother better. Head down, keep pressing forward.

Last edited by BTinTrouble; 06/14/10 06:25 PM.

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BTinTrouble #2390372 06/14/10 07:39 PM
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BT, you are doing just fine. Your wife is in the habit of lovebusting you with angry outbursts, IB and is not used to considering your opinion at all. The concept of POJA is foreign to her. BUT.... it will take time to learn that. Jennifer can teach you.

So, don't despair. Jennifer will probably have you jump to the lessons on lovebusters so you can get that under control.

Don't be impatient, you are doing great!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


BTinTrouble #2390374 06/14/10 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
And a question about DJ's. The decision to move the money, as well as remove her access to all accounts and remove all abilities for her to be able to "run off" with anything was based on a total catastrophic destruction of trust by discovery of the A.

At the point of discovery, every single thing I thought I knew about WW went straight out the window, because every value, belief, and code of ethics she had ever espoused condemned having an affair under any circumstances. Basically she betrayed everything I thought I knew about her by doing this, and many of her friends and family that I talked to during exposure agreed, saying "thats not like her," or "I would never have thought SHE would do that," and so on.

I guess I dont feel like I made a DJ by acting as if there was in fact nothing she was not capable of doing, in light of the fact that she had just proven that was actually doing one of the things she had most vigorously condemned throughout the time I have known her.

That wasn't a DJ. You want to be straightforward in a respectful way and you did that.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


MelodyLane #2390578 06/15/10 04:54 AM
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hmmm

Good call. Jennifer did indeed start us on LBs. Us. Had me on them since the beginning, but got WW on board too now.

Also covered a "feedback" nightly on our ENs and how we are doing meeting them. Start that tomorrow night.

Next week, we are going to go over respectful negotiation and POJA.


The steps to follow when we find ourselves Love Busting are to:

1) Trigger- recognize that LBs happen when we dont get what we want.

2) Symptoms- recognize them. Sweating hands, faster heart rate, breathing, hands starting to tremble.

3) IMPORTANT STEP - PROTECT YOUR SPOUSE - Recognize that when you are in this state you are a dangerous person capable of saying hurtful things. Give yourself time away to calm down to protect your spouse from hurtful behavior. "I need to go to the bathroom, I will be back in 5 mins" - get away from the situation, calm yourself down. Your spouse should recognize, appreciate and respect your efforts to protect them, and allow you to leave and calm down.

4) Think an empathic thought- Think of a reason why they might not be doing what you want, besides just to piss you off. This will often diffuse the anger, because you will begin to see positives. "Spouse isnt refusing to ok this trip just because they knows it will make me angry, they are thinking about money and trying to take care of the family."

5) Look for an "I'd like it if statement..." and make it. Most times, an LB happens because our Taker wants something. Try to figure what it is, and instead of trying to take it with LBs, create an "I'd love it if..." statement.

I'd love it if statements must be POSITIVE, SPECIFIC BEHAVIOR that you would like to see.

NOT AN
Id love it if you wouldnt leave the toilet seat up when you are done.

BETTER
I'd love it if you would put the toilet seat down when you are done.

The first doesnt say what you want. Only what you dont want. It is also a negative statement. Positive specific statements identify exactly what you want in a positive manner that makes it much easier to decide to do it. It OFFERS the choice to your spouse. "This will make me happy if you do it," but it doesnt TELL them to do it. If they should choose to do it, you can rest assured they are doing it because they want to, and not because you coerced them with AO's or DJ's or other LBs.


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BTinTrouble #2391904 06/17/10 07:24 AM
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So I had a really bad dream this morning.

tl:dr - I got home from work, OM was there, threw him out, loud violent confrontation with WW, she admits to sleeping with him again, on our bed. �As I am about to do terrible things to her with my hands, I wake up.

Confused, I don't recognize our bedroom, but I see her, so I wake her by demanding, in a very insistent and VERY threatening tone and body language, "What did you do yesterday?" �She woke up, confused, and stammered non-answers. �I asked I think 4 times total before I realized it had been a dream, she hadn't done anything yesterday, and I turned away, and almost started bawling from the hurt and frustration and rage as the anger started to leave.

She was terrified.

Says she doesn't know what I was going to do with the look I had in my eyes.

Honestly, if she had said she had slept with him yesterday, I don't know what I would have done. �I was very, very angry. �In the dream, its like I acted in all the ways I have WANTED to act, yelling at her, screaming WHY DID YOU DO IT, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU, occasionally pushing her around the house and such. �But right before I woke up, I was about to smash her face. �I think that's why I woke up, to stop myself from doing it, but I don't know.

Anyway, I had to get ready for work, she is scared, would barely talk to me, and I don't know what to do.

On one hand, I don't want her to be scared, I want her to feel safe.

On the other hand, stuff like this doesn't just come from nowhere. �I am hurting inside. �Bad. �This is a symptom. �I love MBs action based approach. �I have been forcing myself to be the loving husband. �I understand that as you develop this into a habit, it becomes "real." �I have not touched her in a remotely violent or threatening manner at all. �However, I also know that I have been shoving this stuff down inside of me for two and a half weeks, and it seems like its going to come out one way or another. �I need to get some of this out of me and in the open.

I think part of it is we didn't do ANYTHING last night as far as MB homework.

We are supposed to be going over our personal LB checklist (individually judging ourselves)
We are supposed to be assessing ourselves on completing our spouses ENs

As part of my H&O need, I had asked her to do a nightly check in with me, addressing 6 things
� � � �-Something good and bad about the day
� � � �-What she did that day
� � � �-What she planned for tomorrow
� � � �-If she had any contact with OM, and reaffirm commitment to me and our marriage
� � � �-Work out any UA time scheduling issues that might have come up
� � � �-Admire something about me
This should take around or slightly less than 20 mins total.
We haven't done this check in once. �I wonder if having her tell me about NC and reaffirm commitment before we go to sleep would help?

Calling Ellie and going to maybe schedule an earlier appointment with Jennifer.

WW is sitting at home terrified, shakes when I touch her.

I am still pissed and hurt about her A. �I WANT to console her make her feel safe, but we DO need to address this too, I think....


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BTinTrouble #2391913 06/17/10 07:35 AM
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We're here and listening, BT.

I don't know that I ever had dreams that vivid, at least not that I can recall. The part about wanting to smash her face I remember vividly.

I used the exact same phrase to describe that feeling.

If you are the impulsive type, whatever you do, don't listen to that urge...

Mark

Mark1952 #2391924 06/17/10 08:09 AM
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{{{{{BT}}}}},

find a HEALTHY outlet for that rage.....a kickboxing class??! Some boxing lessons......try to channel it into something positive....

And considering you are very early in this process, this event doesn't surprise me.....

As for your W, apologize for your actions......

not2fun #2392053 06/17/10 11:41 AM
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BT,

ITA with Mark and Not.

This does not surprise me either, I know how difficult it was for me to control my anger anytime he said anything that upset me, it was like things that typically would not bother me about him did now bother me.

You need to find something to do to get your aggression out and you need to make sure you BOTH do your MB homework and if the 6 things is something you need then revisit it with her, maybe she doesn�t realize how important it is to you.

Still_Crazy #2392632 06/18/10 11:52 AM
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Ok, did all these things.

1) My friend and I grapple.
2) We talked about the CheckIn thing at night, and she totally is on board with doing that every night.

She seemed a lot better when I got home yesterday.

Big plans this weekend with friends, busy!

Going to pick up "new to me" charcoal grill! YAY!


Lifelong recovery never ends.

BTinTrouble #2392685 06/18/10 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
Ok, did all these things.

1) My friend and I grapple.

Did it make you feel any better, get some of your frustration out? twoxfour


Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
2) We talked about the CheckIn thing at night, and she totally is on board with doing that every night.

This is a plan. Did you do this last night? And did it help?

Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
She seemed a lot better when I got home yesterday.

Big plans this weekend with friends, busy!

Going to pick up "new to me" charcoal grill! YAY!

Did you apologize to her for being angry with her for no apparent reason (at least to her it was for no apparent reason since at the time she did not know why you were angry) or at least explain to her the reason you were so angry and that you are trying to deal with it without "taking it out on her"?

And once again remember this is a MARATHON, not a SPRINT, you are very early in this yet grin .....

Still_Crazy #2392732 06/18/10 02:57 PM
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1) Grappling - yes it helped some, but wrestling with her helps a lot more.

2) Yes we did last night, and I definately noticed a different feeling as I fell asleep, and was actually tired when we layed down instead of feeling so restless.

3) Yes, I apologized for scaring her. I tried to share with her a glimpse of how every day is a constant roller coaster that I hide under a smile. She said she was ready for me to share these things with her, and that she wanted to be there for me.

That was very nice to hear.

Today she hit "answer" on an unkown number before she saw it was an unkown number. It was JC Penney, our curtains are in.
She came running to tell me and called the number back and handed me the phone, apolozing for messing up.

+1 trust point I guess. No idea how many more to go, but maybe, just maybe, I can believe maybe we can get there someday.

Partying tonight with 4 other friends I grew up with who are visiting. I am DD cuz I dont really drink anymore anyway, and definately dont want to give up any self control right now.


Mark! You mentioned you dont recall any dreams "that" vivid, well...
let me say it has nothing to do with imagination. I spent a year and a half in Fallujah, Iraq. During both pushes into the city, when the Marines cleaned it out in Nov'04.

It all just blends together. These last couple weeks, time over there. It all sucked.

Most of the time I dont remember my dreams and that makes it a lot easier to have a really good day.


Lifelong recovery never ends.

BTinTrouble #2393242 06/19/10 04:28 PM
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Quote
Mark! You mentioned you dont recall any dreams "that" vivid, well...
let me say it has nothing to do with imagination. I spent a year and a half in Fallujah, Iraq. During both pushes into the city, when the Marines cleaned it out in Nov'04.

It all just blends together. These last couple weeks, time over there. It all sucked.

Most of the time I dont remember my dreams and that makes it a lot easier to have a really good da

I feel your pain.

I havent been on a submarine in 9 years but I still hve nightmares im stuck in a torpedo tube or imback on the boat. WW has nightmares every night about her oldjob she got fired from.


(ME) BS - 33YO
(HER) WW - 32YO
Married 7 years
DD5
D-Day - 5/1/10 (PA)
Exposure 5/7/10
Plan A 5/7/10 -
Plan B or Recovery on 7-1-10 Its in her court ATM
My thread
BTinTrouble #2393305 06/19/10 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BTinTrouble
So I had a really bad dream this morning.

tl:dr - I got home from work, OM was there, threw him out, loud violent confrontation with WW, she admits to sleeping with him again, on our bed. �As I am about to do terrible things to her with my hands, I wake up.

Confused, I don't recognize our bedroom, but I see her, so I wake her by demanding, in a very insistent and VERY threatening tone and body language, "What did you do yesterday?" �She woke up, confused, and stammered non-answers. �I asked I think 4 times total before I realized it had been a dream, she hadn't done anything yesterday, and I turned away, and almost started bawling from the hurt and frustration and rage as the anger started to leave.

She was terrified.

Says she doesn't know what I was going to do with the look I had in my eyes.

Honestly, if she had said she had slept with him yesterday, I don't know what I would have done. �I was very, very angry. �In the dream, its like I acted in all the ways I have WANTED to act, yelling at her, screaming WHY DID YOU DO IT, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU, occasionally pushing her around the house and such. �But right before I woke up, I was about to smash her face. �I think that's why I woke up, to stop myself from doing it, but I don't know.

Anyway, I had to get ready for work, she is scared, would barely talk to me, and I don't know what to do.

On one hand, I don't want her to be scared, I want her to feel safe.

On the other hand, stuff like this doesn't just come from nowhere. �I am hurting inside. �Bad. �This is a symptom. �I love MBs action based approach. �I have been forcing myself to be the loving husband. �I understand that as you develop this into a habit, it becomes "real." �I have not touched her in a remotely violent or threatening manner at all. �However, I also know that I have been shoving this stuff down inside of me for two and a half weeks, and it seems like its going to come out one way or another. �I need to get some of this out of me and in the open.

I think part of it is we didn't do ANYTHING last night as far as MB homework.

We are supposed to be going over our personal LB checklist (individually judging ourselves)
We are supposed to be assessing ourselves on completing our spouses ENs

As part of my H&O need, I had asked her to do a nightly check in with me, addressing 6 things
� � � �-Something good and bad about the day
� � � �-What she did that day
� � � �-What she planned for tomorrow
� � � �-If she had any contact with OM, and reaffirm commitment to me and our marriage
� � � �-Work out any UA time scheduling issues that might have come up
� � � �-Admire something about me
This should take around or slightly less than 20 mins total.
We haven't done this check in once. �I wonder if having her tell me about NC and reaffirm commitment before we go to sleep would help?

Calling Ellie and going to maybe schedule an earlier appointment with Jennifer.

WW is sitting at home terrified, shakes when I touch her.

I am still pissed and hurt about her A. �I WANT to console her make her feel safe, but we DO need to address this too, I think....

BT, this is my first post on your thread, and let me say i am SO sorry that you find yourself in this situation.

listen, infidelity brings out depths of rage in betrayed spouses that are very nearly primal. please don't feel guilty or alone or wonder whether you're a mean man at heart. the fact that a) you told us about your dream, and b) that you're taking solid steps to counteract your worries--these tell me that you're an extremely kind, patient, and forgiving husband who's on the road to rebuilding your marriage.

i remember my husband--a kind, generous, cultured, eloquent, educated, and honorable man, who's never even raised his VOICE to me, let alone a hand--i remember him sitting on the patio smiling sympathetically, handgun in arm's reach, asking mildly, "which one one us should die, do you think? you, me, or him? do i need to choose for you?"

i'm sorry you scared her--but it sounds like YOU'RE sorry you scared her, and that you scared yourself a fair amount, too. it goes without saying that you're not going to act on your impulses. i'm familiar with being subject in dreams to thoughts i would never consciously entertain, let alone act on.

trust yourself, and your rational, well-thought-out Plan A. you're not the type to hurt your wife.

BT, it takes a good deal of self-awareness and pragmatism to translate such a scary dream into a practical and productive plan of action. you've done so admirably, and i congratulate you, sir. i'll be following your thread.

best wishes and good evening.

DisplayName #2393870 06/21/10 02:57 PM
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Thank you so much RN for your post. I clicked on you and looked though your posts and just LOVED your thread on weird sex. It had never occurred to me to ask about that, but I loved the responses.

Thank you all for all the help and support.


Lifelong recovery never ends.

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