TY for your concern I have posted everything that wheels and I are doing on my original thread, this one is my second, that is why the title is different, if I wanted to talk about how wheels and I are doing then i would post it on my first thread.

We are actually doing REALLY GREAT!! Ever since I have been home we have been doing everything...

20 UA

reading all the books (I told him last night the next one I want to read is SAA, I was the one that brought that book up, not him, he said we probably wont need it, but I said I want to, so that will be the next book)

Fulfilling each other EN's

Setting goals together for the future

I can probably name more, the rest is on my other thread, all I can say is that I feel like we just got married and I want to spend every min and every second with him

We love coming on here and reading all the articles, listening to the MB radio, and helping others.

Hi SR!

I wanted to let you know that I've been reading along - I've been very busy lately, so I haven't had time to post...

A few thoughts...

Please don't discount the value of your thread...I realize your intent was to help others, and that is GREAT, however, don't forget that YOU may be the one that learns the most from it, and that will help both you and Wheels...

Like others have told you, just make CERTAIN that you don't use this forum instead of all the other MB Materials - this forum should SUPPLEMENT your MB "book learnin'"! Absolutely, positively DO NOT cherry-pick the program - do each and every step...realizing that what Dr. Harley says is true, "Recovery is a very narrow path"...

There are quite a few things that I disagree with you on regarding the thoughts of a WS during the affair, but as SMB told you, really it doesn't matter a whole heck of a lot what is going through the mush mind of a WS then - what matters is their ACTIONS, and of course we all know that those are CRUEL, SELFISH and FLAT OUT WRONG - Seriously, would it matter one iota if they were thinking "I sure do love my BS" if their actions weren't showing that? Remember that love is a verb...an action...

Anyway, I would be willing to wager that next year at this time you'll re-read this thread and feel very differently about a lot of the stuff that you've written thus far, and that is totally fine and to be expected...Heck, I still learn new things and we are 5 years from dday and consider ourselves fully recovered...On the rare occasion that I go back and read any of my old stuff now, I usually CRINGE and want to DIE of EMBARRASSMENT, but that was where I was at that time and in order to get to where we are now, I had to be there first I guess...Recovery is a process and not an event...

No worries, SR...REALLY...Just keep working the program with Wheels...I'm glad you guys are here!

Mrs. W

Wow I am really new to this only a few months in and I look and look on here for posts of recovery or even what could my husband have been thinking and I think reading into other peoples posts and how they handled it has really helped me maybe understand a little and I like to talk but I get tangled in my thoughts and these posts help put things in perspective when I try to talk about them with my WS.

I think your posts for WS really is helpful. Even if I am a BS I see what you are trying to do to help us the BS understand.

TY, I haven't post anything else because I wanted to know if this would help or not

SR~

Did you see my post to you? Thoughts?

Mrs. W

Yes I have, TY, I am no longer giving advise, I am just reading and soaking it in, if anyone wants advise then by all means I will be posting on my original thread and letting people know exactly how we are doing in our marriage. Otherwise I will only be on here reading articles, and reading all the updated threads.

TY again.

IMO what counts is to watch the actions of the WS not the words. The words mean nothing and what they really think means nothing.
The WS is with OP and not with BS. This is the fact of the matter.
If that is due to the fog, then, when it lifts, the M has a chance to R. If it is due to a permanent shift of values from the WS part, then the M has no chance of R and the WS was never in a fog but was actually into a downward spiral where he/she traded his integrity for a lifestyle of 'freedom" and "bachelorhood".
To the person who has lost his/her integrity the world looks different than we view it. They adjust to the new lifestyle and stay with it permanently. Of course there are consequences to their action, but we should not be concerned because they will be not part of us and our lives any longer.
blessing

Ahhhhh SR, you missed at least part of my point I think - this thread - this exercise - has value TO YOU - which means it also has value to Wheels...You matter, SR...

Know what I think? I think that right now you are in the process of "WHY? HOW COULD I HAVE DONE WHAT I DID?" And the gears in your head are trying very hard to find a way of explaining what you now see as unfathomable behavior - wrapping your head around the whole of it is quite a battle...As it turns out, the answer is very simple, but the process of getting to that simple answer is not easy one, at least that is my recollection of it...Again, there is much value in that process - it's a time for pulling the weeds from your brain to allow a beautiful garden to grow - A place where you will be able to "bloom where you are planted"...

So I understand if you don't wish to continue this process on this particular thread, but please don't let this experience put you in a position of never wanting to start another thread - don't be afraid to be wrong - welcome the correction from others when you are - this place can serve as an excellent source of learning if you let it...

Mrs. W

Totally agree with Mrs W SR, it certainly was not my intent to make you feel bad, as i said before it is just that IMHO the ACTIVE WSs are a different thing altogether than a FWS.....

I still value this thread and hope other recovered WS post.

Every day is a challenge...not knowing what comes next is tough.

So, this thread helps. Tons. Makes sense in a senseless time in our BS lives. Thank you.

I don't believe this is a healthy way to handle negative situations.

You're doing fine.
Relax.
Post.
Read.

One of the ways we learn MB is to post MB to others.
I never personally did a Plan A or a Plan B .... Because our infidelity and recovery experience pre-dated my posting or reading anything on MB forums.
But, I think I have a fairly decent comprehension of those plans anyway.
How?
By reading and also POSTING about my understanding .... And getting corrected/challenged about my understanding sort of forced me to dig deeper into MB to defend my point of view.

This is a process.
Reading MB is part of it.
But, so is posting your understanding and getting feedback.

I like your thread Saphire.
Don't you think you have learned stuff from this thread?
From the feedback?
From being challenged?

The process here on the forums, can effect the process in your marriage.
If you need to stop and think before posting, you learn a valuable skill that will help your marriage.
The "stop and think" gene was not indigenous to me. I had to learn it.
I'm still learning it

Also, getting used to being challenged on the forums has the potential to improve some marriage skills too.

Relax.
Enjoy posting.
If your ideas get challenged, it is an OPPORTUNITY if you choose to see it that way.

I don't think you should have this thread deleted, or run from it. I think it is a good debate that could help others and help you grow.

Just because someone disagrees with you does not necessarily make something negative. If you learn something from a debate/disagreement, it can be a very positive thing.

This is where I disagree with you.

When my wife said these things she was not lying. She was in fact "in love" with another man, and had no romantic feelings for me.

She was not lying.

Now, two years later she does not feel that way about OM and she does have romantic "In Love" feelings for me. But, that does not mean she was lying... because when she said it, she meant it.

Looking back at saying those things to me pains her because of how she feels about me now, compared to how she feels about OM now.

But just because she regrets them now, and no longer means them, does not make what she said a lie.

Yes to Pep ~ Yes to Gack...Totally agree with both of you...Great posts!

And for SR~~~>

Mrs. W

SR,

We appreciate the perspectives and insights offered by repentant and de-fogged fWSs�thank you and I mean that sincerely. Please keep up the good work�

Regardings the waywardisms you are discussing, all I and others are saying is that, despite their inherent irrationality and illogicality, these all-too-common quotations were very �real� to the WS when he/she was saying them at the time. They were �the truth� to the WS at that time because that is how they �felt� then�and the emotionally-addicted wayward state is all about �feelings�, not actual reality.

For instance, take the #1 waywardism---the universally standard �I love you, BS, but I�m not IN LOVE with you!� At the time it is said, the WS�s reality is that he/she is far more �in love� with his/her affair-partner than his/her BS and they are pretty darn convinced that it is impossible for them to ever �feel that way� about their BS again.

We all know that last sentence is COMPLETELY FALSE in reality (and over time a recovering-fWS comes to see the error in his/her assumptions), but at the time it seems perfectly accurate and �true� to them. Reality hasn�t changed; only the WS�s perceptions and understanding has.

EXACTLY!

De-fogging brings about wisdom, discernment, and self-realizations that were NOT THERE beforehand within the WS.

That is why MB/Dr. Harley is so adamant about ending the affair and NC with the lover BEFORE ALL ELSE. It is about RECEPTIVITY in the WS. Once the WS is out-of-contact with their affair-partner (i.e. �de-fogging� or emotionally de-addicting), he/she can become open to seeing things in a new light and with a reality-based perspective. Beforehand, it is very unlikely these revelations will occur.

A WW chases after her OM (to get that �fix�) fully knowing that what she is doing is wrong, deceitful, & hurtful. She may even have a vague idea that the affair relationship is �bad for her� too. But she does it anyway in her emotionally-driven state. She allows her ga-ga feelings to override her values, commitments, standards, and judgment. She is convinced AT THE TIME that:

She doesn�t have feelings left for her husband
She cannot possibly ever feel for him again
Her marriage is �over anyway� and was �over beforehand�
She has something �real and special and meant to be� with her OM
She will always have that with him
Her affair is �where she needs to be� to �be forever happy�

All of the above are DEMONSTRABLY UNTRUE, but she believes them all firmly at the time.

Even if this is a classic line from the WS it is the truth for them and i do not know if there is any other sentence they could use to express it. I guess this is the only way.
As far as WS using pretty much the same sentences..I wonder if us, BS have a standard modus operandi... and consequent sentences such as:
I did not know you were so unhappy, why didn't you tell me
Just wondering ...as us BS must have our cookie cutter reactions too when we find out and deal with the A. Is just human
blessing

SR,

Please DON�T delete your thread and please don�t go away.

Your intentions are NOBLE and your heart is obviously in the right place. Thank you so much. You are doing a very good thing�for yourself and others!

We are just pointing out the vast differences (in coherent, rational, reality-based thinking) between an emotionally-addicted, active-WS & a recovering, de-fogging FORMER-WS. Your points are accurate and true from the (proper) perspective of the LATTER.

I�m so glad that you are no longer wallowing in the self-delusions of the FORMER. You are to be commended for that and I encourage you to continue to learn and grow.

God Bless