Good i am glad the grappling helped. As far as wrestling with her i am sure you can accomplish that without hurting her. It could be some UA time and it could possibly lead elsewhere ......


This is great too!!! It seems this is something you need right now so if it makes you feel better than be sure to do this every night until you feel you no longer need it (unless you need it forever and that is fine too ).


Yes i am sure it was nice to hear, it seems that she is realizing the pain she has caused you.


This is another good thing, she is trying to enforce her EP's and wants to let you know HERSELF when she messes up.

Did you thank her for letting you know about it and also for telling you she was she wanted to hear about your pain? It is important to show and tell her that you appreciate the effort she is making to help you heal.


Pretty smart idea!!!



Sorry about this BT, i can not even imagine what it must have been like and thank you for helping to protect our country!!!

So today is exactly 4 weeks since I came home to proof of a PA that shattered my world. Today is proving to be very hard. It keeps replaying in my head. WW is trying hard to be supportive and reassuring.

It is helping I guess.

Feel like I am bleeding.

BT,

Find something to DO together to keep you from thinking about it. Change what you are thinking and what you are FEELING will follow your lead.

Trust me...

Mark

The worst part is I know that Mark...

thank you for telling me again.

We made chineese food together, laughed, candlelight dinner at our table during a thunderstorm, and then she got a massage for about 25 minutes till she fell asleep.


Ok, so new thing... now we sometimes talk. Especially as we try to adopt PORH, we are both trying to bring things up that we think about and share them. We try to be constructive or at least respectful but sometimes it doesnt go as planned.

She mentioned she went on my facebook and read my private messages. During the weekend she was gone, I got some from "friends" who were female that I used to be involved with. I asked if she noted the heavy admiration and conversation deposits in the messages from those people. She had and we started talking about being vulnerable to infidelity and how she was glad I hadnt been back home where I grew up where most of those people still live.

I told her that I dont think I would have went off and did anything like that in one weekend, but that it certainly did lead to a dangerous position. This is why I havent contacted those people since then.

Well, then she said something about how I would probably have done something with anyone during my trip if the opportunity had presented itself and I had been drunk. I believe I mentioned this once in an example of how easy an affair can be to get into.

Anyway, I got pissed. I didnt AO, but I Selfish Demanded that she refrain from telling me what I "would have" done. I said, "I am not the one that failed to protect myself and my marriage by putting myself in those situations."

I didnt get drunk on my trip. I didnt kiss someone else and not tell her.

She got visibly upset but didnt say anything, and left the room.

I am trying to figure out why I got mad based on the 7 diagnostic areas so that I can try to come up with specific positive "I'd like it if's..." that would more productively help us get past this.

THinking out loud.


She failed to protect our marriage.
We were both vulnderable to affairs for the last few years, particularly since about January of this year.
I did NOT hang out with members of the opposite sex.
When I was unhappy with her, I did NOT go out and party, I played video games. This did not help our marriage, but it prevented me from doing anything like this.
When she tells me what I would have done or might have done, I get very upset.
I know what I did and did not do.
I can definately accept and alter my behavior to better have EPs in place to protect her and our marriage, but NOT because of what I "WOULD HAVE" done, as if its a certainty.
I read on this site that some people go through their whole lives without a need being met by their spouse adn do not cheat. They are just unahppy.
I cant say for sure that I would have done that. I can say that I was doing a pretty good job of not putting myself in a position to TEST it.
I think her affair was basically made possible because she failed to protect herself from those kinds of situations.
I dont want to always point at her and say "you did it."
However, I cannot stand when she says things along the lines of, "I did it, but you might have too if the position was reveresed," because it WASNT REVERSEED!! I never put myself in that position. I may not have been accidentally in that position to have a CHANCE to show what I might have done, but at least in part, that is because I chose NOT to have friends outside my marriage.
I
do
not
like
her
comparing
us.

No matter what else, she cheated, I did not.
She failed to protect me, herself and our marriage from infidelity.
We both failed at LBs and meeting ENs.
SHE failed at being faithful.

I HATE when she even comes close to sounding like she is justifying or comparing us...

K, so somehow need to get these into positive statements. Need to identify the DJs in there, and be able to share these things with her without LBing.

Sheeessshhhh

ok, did you tell her what a HUGE LOVEBUSTER this is? I would make sure she understands how damaging this approach is. She should focus on what you did do, not on what you didn't do. That is a distraction from your recovery besides being a lovebuster.

BT,

Mel beat me to the reply but let me add this.

When she says something like that, state truth and facts only and not emotional reaction from your POV and then YOU stop the discussion by changing subjects at least briefly.

Her: "If things were reversed, you might have done the same thing."
You: "But things weren't reversed. Want a cookie?"

No comment about but YOU did it or I wasn't the one who cheated or you have no idea what I might have done or any other form of editorializing. Just the facts, Man.

It will take her a while to understand this, BT.

Mark

Geez. Her comments sound like my kids when I catch one of them doing something he's not supposed to do. What's the first line of defense? "Well, you let Other DS do it when he was my age!" or "Well, I know you'd let Other DS do it and you wouldn't get mad!"

Do you see where this is an immature and defensive statement, intended to dilute the severity of what happened? It's what your WW is doing. Try to look at her as an emotionally small child right now, while she continues to defog. It's a pretty lame tactic, for sure, but she doesn't have a lot in her arsenal right now, so she's using what she's got.

I know this won't help much, but maybe it'll help put things into a better place in your mind and you'll be more patient. But hey, BT - don't get me wrong - she's not playing fair by using this tactic. I'd let her know that.

its going to take time. Im sure over time and with more work she will say hurtful things like this less and less.

Although Ill never get a chance for recovery from the stories ive heard those thoughts are par for the course.

Just keep your head up and plugging away. I think your going to find Jennifer will be able to help you considerably speed up your recovery.

Right after D-day, I remember aching for a button that would fast-forward time for me. Couldn't find one. Every day, there was something I had to overcome, some torment I had to wrestle about the A. It was the worst mental torture I have ever had to endure.

The good news is that what everyone was telling me here was true. The time came when it wasn't the first thing I thought about in the morning (after not sleeping all night, replaying things in my head.) The time came when I actually thought about other things before I drifted off to sleep (and was able to actually sleep.)

This will happen for you, too, BT. I promise.

Mel Mark et all, thank you all.

maritalbliss, your last post above this one.

thank you for that light...

Another appointment with Jennifer tonight...

This last 2 weeks since our last appointment has been a real up and down. Sometimes we are great and sometimes just all bad.

Love busters are a huge problem right now.

LOTS of DJs.
Occasionally they get expressed as AO's and SDs.

Basically, got told not to hide stuff from eachother, even negative feelings, but to express them in a positive way.

Having problems with the positive part.

I know for me its hard just because I feel like before she had an excuse, since I could never quite put my finger on what was happening and why it felt wrong, made me feel so crappy.

Now we both know. Or at least we should, 2 months later.

This fact gets me more angry than almost anything ever has,

except for memories of the audio or my imagination filling the gaps.

Still cant fall asleep next to her some nights.

Any idea on the time frame that that continues?

Time frame varies.
False recovery events lengthen the time.

Are you on anti- depressants?
You might need to ask your physician for an anti-anxiety as well.
Some ADs can treat both.

Just a suggestion.

BT i agree with Pep, i tried for a while without them but eventually i did start taking ADs and they helped a lot with sleeping and trying to concentrate was really hard for me too, i would always let my mind drift back to A stuff.

This does get better with time and working on things together, but time is your best healer.

Uggh..

I hate meds.

This might take another month of "convincing."

Ok, lame attempt at a joke.

In the middle of another love buster fight again.

Probably will never work it out since we wont ever talk about it again.

Apparently I am too sensitive and nit pick all the time now.

You're on the first leg of a marathon, BT.

Totally agree with this one too.

Sorry BT i know how you feel i hate meds too, however this was a TRAUMATIC experience to say the least, not that i know at all and would not want to try to guess but it could be worse that what you experienced in the military.

And you are here with this person who caused you so much pain and are trying to meet her needs when all you really want to do right now is slap the snot out of her. Think what that can do to a person's brain. It definitely gets scrambled for a while during this marathon.

Just think about it, i know it took me a while to decide to start taking them too but i am ever so glad that i did, they helped a lot for me.

And me and my h had lots of LB fights throughout recovery, not that it is a good thing but it is something that can be overcome with time and practicing MB methods.

BT,

Update?

Ok, update:

Talking to Jennifer @ our appointments.
We have 'the plan.'
We know what we should be doing.
We have (own) SAA, FILSIL, I promise you, and HNHN, and have internet for forums and website.
We have id'd our top ENs, and explained to eachother how we would like them met.
We have learned (specifically with Jennifer) about LBs and learned tools to help break their habitual use.
We have been taught how to negotiate, that PORH is important, and that so is POJA.
We have learned about Protection, Care, Undivided Attention, Exclusive Need Meeting, PORH, POJA, and No Contact.

In theory we have it all.

However, I was trying very hard the first few weeks, but I feel frustrated and completely unmotivated.

it was a lot easier before when I could say to myself, "she justn doesn't know what she is doing."

She is still great at filling spome of my ENs, but now I feel like she has been told them all. She has learned what LBs are. So its like the frustration of unmet needs is multiplied, and the same for the amount of withdrawels made for an LB that is nothing compared to the things she was saying 3 months ago in her fog.

Back then it was easy to overlook LBs. She was foggy. Now it seems like there is no excuse.

I have felt my Love Bank empty with an astonishing quickness. Sometimes I love her, oftentimes I feel cold, disgusted and empty inside.

I have been very moody and easily upset, and therefore LBing all over too. I know this doesn't make anything better. I just can't stop secomd guessing if I should have just filed on grounds of adultary, and then maybe attempted this recovery during the mandatory NC state 1 yeatr period after filing before you can divorce. Then my options would still be wide open.

At this time, I don't trust her too much more than I diid may 29th. I don't think she will break NC with OM, but I don't trust her to Protect me, meet my needs, and certainly don't trust that she wouldn't do the dame thing all overn again if given a chance.

She says she loves me.

She says she wants to Protect me from LBs and meet my needs.

But she doesn't.

I am frustrated and angry, I am sick of hurting all the time.

For the time in 5 years we have been married I had a dream where I thought of her and was not overwhelmed with love nd warmth. Instead I was cold and empty.

I am tired of hurting. I am tired of making deposits, getting my love bank positive, then LBing it back to negative. I am sick of this roller coaster.

Thank you guys for you support.

I am braced for 2x4s...

BT,

Time...

It takes time...

It gets better with time...

It gets easier with time...
(Note: The above applies only if you are both striving to DO the MB stuff and not just learning about it)

Time is God's way of keeping us from having to experience all of this crap at one time...

Mark