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Is she ready not to see your children EVERY DAY?


Me: BW, 46
Him: WH, 48
EA/PA with co-worker 8-08 to 7-09
D-day 7-29
NC 8-17
OW and WH both fired from jobs
OW lost court case for restraining order- judge called her a "practiced deciever" who manufactured evidence!!
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She says she regrets it, but that she can't stay with me in a emotionless marriage. She would rather be alone in a tiny apartment than try and make it work. She is so afraid that the changes she sees are an act by me and I will revert once she stays. I can't convince her of this, only time can. I'm just afraid that she will stop seeing my change and effort once she leaves. She thinks that she can make meals and bring them over, doesn't seem like she gets the whole separated couple thing. That is why I still have hope for a reconciliation. For now we are keeping some things joint and not separating everything.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 346
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Okay, with the move-out day less than a week away, I want to make a killer plan A. Can anyone give me tips how to do it when there is no OM in the picture, at least not PA and in a 1,000 mile radius. I am a teacher and have most of the summer off.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 346
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I am planning on doing a lot of work on the house and continue to work on me. What can I do to get her to see it? If she could believe the changes in me, I know she would come back.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 346
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How long after she leaves before I contact her?

Thanks for all the help!!!


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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I need to leave right now for a few hours but when I come back I will read your thread and help you as best I can, okay?


BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. smile
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Originally Posted by scirugby
For now we are keeping some things joint and not separating everything.


WHY?? I would separate your finances NOW! If she wants to live a single life and cheat on you, then by all means, separate your finances!

DO NOT PAY FOR ANYTHING!!

The only reason why she is moving away, is so she can talk to her new b/f with out feeling the guilt of you being there, understand?

Also he is probably planning on visiting her, and so therefore she decides to have her OWN place so he can stay with her.

Is that what you want?

To help her pay for her A??

I understand you are in plan A, but I'm sorry paying for everything or half the stuff WONT BRING HER BACK!! Why would she come back when she has everything she wants? A single life and a husband to pay FOR IT!!??

Sorry to be blunt, but I see redflag redflag all over your WIFE!!

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scirugby,

Read the first couple of pages on the musings thread linked in my sig line and be sure you have read the posts on Plan A that Scotty posted to you on the first page of this thread. Look at the whole thread for the newly betrayed and not just the links in the first few posts.

There are two sides to Plan A. Assuming your goal is to win your wife back and restore your marriage and rebuild it into something that will satisfy both of you, you need to not only apply the carrot side of Plan A but also the Stick side of the process.

Your vision needs to be to make returning to you more profitable in every way than to scrap your marriage and move on to take a chance with OM. To that end, the learning to meet her emotional needs and avoiding love busters removes complaints she may have about being neglected, being hurt by things you might have done in the past and shows her what you are capable of a a marriage partner.

The flip side of that is to make continuing the affair as hard as possible. If she feels like she can keep you on a string, paying her way so that she can test the waters with OM for a while and still know that you will be there when she gets tired of the reality that is sure to set in when the fantasy starts to wear off, then she will string you along indefinitely while she tries to decide between you.

By paying her way you are making it easier for her to do this. She will take your support, including anything you wish to give her in the way of emotional needs and still continue along the road to the dismantling of your marriage so that her fantasy can become true. OM likely can't actually provide for all of her ENs and is probably not financially able to provide for her need for domestic support as well as you to begin with and might even have other financial obligations that will make keeping her in a life she has been accustomed to for very long.

If you remove the financial support, it will expose him to having to meet this need for her as well and if at the same time you meet her other ENs, it will demonstrate to her that you are capable of providing for her everything she desires from a relationship. It will also make it apparent more rapidly that OM is only able to actually provide a portion of what she needs and so will hasten the demise of the affair.

Focus on this one aspect of Plan A. You want to make married to you look better than being on her own to pursue a relationship with OM. To that end, make yourself more attractive by becoming better at providing for her emotional needs and at the same time make continuing the affair fantasy in its current fantasy state more difficult. It will be the reality that starts to set in that will turn her heart back toward the possibilities with you, so the sooner she is forced to abandon the fantasy relationship and face the real world of divorce, living on her own and getting nothing from you, the quicker she will begin to have the epiphany she needs to blow away the fog of the affair.

She is comparing the resentments of the past to some fantasy world where she and OM will live in perfect relationship that does not exist in reality. Remove the reasons for the resentments of the past and make the reality of a real life day to day relationship. Begin making the reality of what she is doing start to appear by making her and OM finance their own love nest but continue showing her support by meeting her other ENs as much as she allows.

Mark

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Rugby:

I am going to give you two threads to read:

TBC's Thread

And:
SickofLimbo's Thread

And I am going to make a recommendation to you.

If she is agreeing to "give you everything" Then get it in writing, get it agreed to, and then let her MOVE OUT.

Because one of two things will happen. If she returns, and recognizes your improved manner, you recover your marriage the MB way. And the agreement doesn't matter.

The second is that she leaves you and you end up divorced. And if she has already signed a seperation agreement giving up the house, the boys, the cash, the goods, no alimony, and other things, than, your in good shape, and not haggling about this after the fact.

Can you save your marriage? Yes. This site saved mine.

Should you kowtow to a Wayward Wife? No.

She will pull her head out of her butt, and when she does, she will be wanting to take you to the cleaners. Right NOW, you should press your advantage as much as possible.

Get the signed agreement, then Plan A your butt off. Try to prevent her moving out.

She asks you: "Why didn't you act this way YEARS ago?" just ask her "Why did YOU start acting this WAY? If your capable of that much change in that short amount of time, so am I"

Sorry you have to be here.

LG

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Okay, you are getting some great help from the big guns here....The advice they are giving is spot on.


BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. smile
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Mark1952, I am so glad to see you here! I felt like calling in some enlistments! I feel he is in good hands now. I also agree that she shouldn't get to feel she has the best of both worlds in the separation...she needs to get the idea of what she will lose if she loses her husband, that it's one way or the other, can't have it all. The needs he meets for her, taking care of the home, financial support, someone to lean on in tough times, a whole family, all of those things are things she needs to think about and consider. Meanwhile, she has a ready made husband willing to be the man of her dreams...where else is she going to find that? The other men she meets are fantasies, not based in reality, they all have their own problems, things she has yet to discover...but they will not turn out to be Prince Charming, only the one she has that loves her and WANTS to meet her needs can be that.

Mark, please help this guy through the steps of how to handle this separation in a way to redeem the marriage.

Lousy Golfer, very good point!

Is it at all possible to get a counseling session with the Harleys?


Enacting life's lessons into positive change... .
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Okay, the only thing joint is our cell phone service. It's in her name, for all of us. So I am paying the bill for her extra line for 10$ a month. She opened her own bank account, and I am going to remove her from our joint account. She has her own credit card and I am making sure she is off the joint/ get a new card.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
Joined: Jun 2010
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She is still on my health insurance because we are still married.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 346
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My lawyer is serving me with the papers tomorrow and then we will start the official negotiations for division of assets. I am letting her take her possessions from the house for her apartment, they are hers. Other than that she is on her own.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 346
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I have tried to get her to stay. I know we're not supposed to beg or use the kids as a tool. But she says she hurts so much if she doesn't go, she will kill herself. Yes, I know that is unstable, but she suffered (still going on) mental abuse from her mother her whole life and she has low self esteem and is always thinking the worst. That's where my support and love and meeting her ENs all these years could have helped heal her. Her father died 4 years into our marriage, and mine 5, so I had no role model on how to be a good husband and treat her right; that is until I read Dr. Harley and came to this site. I wish I had years ago!


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
Joined: Jun 2010
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KC,
Would the counseling session with the Harleys be for me alone, or both of us. So far she refuses to consider working on the marriage. We are seeing a MC on July 6th, after she moves out, but she says that is just to help me deal with her leaving. I'm hoping her can convince her to try. I'm planning on bringing up the EA with the proof of the texts and e-mails, and phone calls. If he can convince her it is an EA, then maybe we can move forward.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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Hey scirugby,

I will speed post here.......

One, do NOT let her know your snooping techniques. It will only force her to go through other channels. (Not sure if your surveillance is still good after she moves out.....)

Two, your MC session will probably be a waste of time. She's probably just doing it to say that she "tried", but won't exhibit any real effort. It will probably be predominently a "scirugby was a scourge of the planet and this marriage" type of dialogue. I know from experience.

Three, your sitch is similar to mine in many respects. Mrs. scirugby is leaving to make herself more available. It seems pretty clear to me. Again, I know from experience. I dealt with an EA that went PA shortly after she moved out.

Four, Plan A isn't necessarily about being a better person and then talking about it or justifying it. It's just doing it. She'll notice. If she wants to give you the business about doing it NOW (as opposed to all those years ago), just say something like, "there's never a bad time to make positive changes in ouselves". And then move on. Don't get sucked into debates about it.

Five, stay away from the serious discussions. They are draining, you won't accomplish anything positive, and she won't hear you anyways -- it will all come through as "blah, blah, blah." Listen to me on this one, because I had some difficulty in this area. I'd play it cool, but if I was goaded, or prodded into getting into it, I had no problem mixing it up.

Six, plan A after separation is tough. I can help you with how to come up with ideas that might be effective. Helping her move is NOT one example of plan A activities.

Seven, a lot of what you've heard from her is standard stuff. Don't get rattled by any of it. It's almost as if the WS receives a script in the mail, and it contains all of the key catch phrases and foggy babble.

I think that's about it for now.

Hang in there. There's a lot of really awesome people on here, and if you need 'em, they'll be there....

TBC



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Sci,

Listen, you don't have to convince her she is in love with someone else, she already knows that. What she doesn't realize is that it is THAT relationship that is pulling her away from a marriage of 21 years!

Counseling with Steve Harley would be a great opportunity for YOU to get a serious PLAN to fight this affair. He can give you ideas of what to say, how to say it and when to back off as opposed to pressing in to try to save your marriage.

A mistake many make, and not saying this is what you are doing, only that it is a mistake I have seen too often, is that men tend to try to save their marriage by fixing it. The reality is that until you save it, there will be nothing to fix. trying to fix it before you save it will result in neither being accomplished.

Your wife is not your enemy in this. In reality, neither is OM. Your enemy is the affair itself. The person she is in love with is not even a real person but solely a fantasy. You have to fight that fantasy and not her will to leave.

Demonstrate your ability and willingness to adapt, change and remove those things that have caused resentment in the past and show her how you can meet her emotional needs now and in the future.

Who knows what is really going on, besides you, her and POSOM?

Who have you exposed this to?

Do you know anyone who has influence with her that can tell her to get her head out of her butt and be the wife and mother she is supposed to be? Is there a pastor or close friend or couple that she respects that would be dumbfounded by what she is doing? THAT is who needs to know what is going on right now.

Things you need to do to fight the affair are not just things that you do to try to make her happy. Some of what needs to happen will make her so mad at you that you won't even believe that she is capable of responding like that. Expect it and ignore it. Your marriage can survive her being angry at you but it cannot survive her affair.

Side note to KC: I don't have the hours in the day I once had to sit here and guide folks like I did during my own recovery process. And as much as I appreciate the vote of confidence, I am but a layman, have no degree in anything and am really only a guy who cares about marriages and trying to prevent others from screwing up their lives like we did if at all possible.

The real experts can be found at the coaching center...

Sci, another thing you need to understand is that if you want to save your marriage, you need to have a PLAN that you can follow no matter what she does or says. You need to be acting and not reacting to her every emotional response. Identify her top ENs and get rid of all Love Busters from your interactions with her. Meet her ENs and kill LBs. That's the focus of Plan A. Don't do it when it is convenient, do it all the time in every way you can think of.

She fell in love with you once and she can fall in love with you again. Figure out who it is she fell in love with over 21 years ago and BECOME that guy once more. Do the little things you did for her then. THOSE are the things that meet her ENs.

But also think back, to a time before this affair and try to remember the complaints she had that point to an unmet EN or a Love Buster you might have been doing without thinking about it all the time. THOSE are a great way to determine what you need to be doing as well.

Win or lose in this war, Sci, it will be the hardest thing you ever have to do in your life and no matter the outcome, you will come out the other side whole, strong and better than before if you put in the effort to do what you need to do to save and restore your marriage. Your boys will see what a father needs to do to protect and save his family and respect you even more than they did when they were that age when it was all about "My Daddy says..."

THAT is what you are fighting for, Sci, your family...

Mark

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If you can't get her to go to counseling with you, I would start alone.


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TBC and everyone:
Thank you for the help! TBC I am already following most of what you suggest. I am not helping her move, I only offered to do something with my younger son while she is moving. I think I can partially snoop after she leaves. We have a joint cell phone plan that will continue, so I can log on to verizon and see who her calls and texts are too, just won't know the contents.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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