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Rugby,

Don't look for a magic bullet or something that you can do that will suddenly turn all of this around because there is no magic involved. This is a process which is why you need a PLAN, something you know you can do no matter what she does.

To that end, concentrate on identifying and learning to meet her emotional needs. I suggest starting with Conversation (with no discussion of hard relationship issues if you can avoid it) and Affection which can often be met a tiny bit at a time with a simple touch, an offer of a foot rub or back rub (keep it strictly meeting her needs and don't try to score, OK?) and things like maybe a bunch of flowers from the local store or something like that. Don't do two dozen roses or anything that is too over the top and do it periodically and not just once and then attempt to judge her reaction. Just do stuff that shows her that you care about her (the key here is SHOW and not talk about it) and that you can and are willing to meet her emotional needs.

Your marriage didn't get to this point overnight and you aren't going to make everything come out fine overnight either. It is a process and not an event. It is a strategy and not a single thing that you can do.

Mark

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Mark,
I realize I'm in it for the long haul. As for the affection, she hasn't let me touch her since her announcement in mid-May. By touch I mean even a touch on the shoulder. I gave her flowers once and she complained that she's allergic. I said appreciate the thought and put them on the back porch. I have since given her a silk rose with my last letter.
I am trying to talk to her about her day and things she is doing without being overbearing. I am just looking for more ideas on what little things I can do to show my love, with it being both subtle and effective. It will be especially harder to do once she leaves. Her work is only 15 min. away and her apartment will be 10. I thought about surprising her for lunch at her work. I am a teacher and have most of the summer off so I can meet her.


ME: 48
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Years Married: 21
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D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
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What about a date either now or after she moves? Nothing overly romantic, maybe coffee or invite over to walk the dog? She loves him and will miss him terribly.


ME: 48
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Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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Originally Posted by scirugby
What about a date either now or after she moves? Nothing overly romantic, maybe coffee or invite over to walk the dog? She loves him and will miss him terribly.

She is actively involved in an affair.

Being nice to her means nothing. You do this Plan A stuff after you uncover the affair.

If the typical spying mechanisms do not work I would hire a detective. She is likely having an affair with a co-worker--------that is usually the 1st place to check. The neighbor guy back home is a possibility, but I put money on a co-worker.


Stanley
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A date is a good idea, but if you ask her to go on a date with you, she will of course refuse.

So what you need to do is to make it a choice she has to make at that very instant as to join you doing something or sit alone while you do it by yourself.

Tell her you were thinking of dinner at whatever place you and she used to go to and ask if she would like to go grab a bite. If she does not want to go along, you go get something though a quiet romantic restaurant isn't necessary at that point.

If you cook, fix her something you know she enjoys and just share the meal. If you can get one or both of the boys to join you so that by refusing to join in she is the only one missing out it can be even better.

Just guessing here, but I would say that your marriage probably became pretty child-centric for a while there and that she often felt like it was up to her to take care of getting them to various places and events.

In marriages where this is the case, when they kids are out of the home or about to leave home, or at least pretty much able to care for themselves, it is not at all uncommon for a wife to feel like her very reason for existence has been eliminated. This can cause her to begin looking at her life and wondering what she has missed. If a guy pays any attention to her at all, suddenly she starts wondering what else she might have missed besides just other guys finding her attractive and things like that.

What happens first is that she falls in love with the idea of some fantasy life that may or may not even be possible. Especially if she is a big fan of things like romantic movies or romance novels and such, she can view feelings as something magical or mystical that just happen to her without her participation. In such a case, she might be in love with the idea of falling in love with someone else rather than actually being in love with someone right now.

The solution can still be to meet her ENs and avoid Love Busters in order to have her fall in love with you again.

Talking to Steve Harley in the coaching center can help you focus your Plan A to enough precision to maximize the results with the effort you can generate. Consider this option. A lot of people here can give advice and some of it can be quite good, but the people who are in Dr Harley's office are the real experts.

Mark

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Thanks again all.
Stan, her job started 3 weeks ago, well after her announced plans to leave, so there is no guy there.

Mark, you sound like you have read my wife's mind. Our life became very child-centric; both boys had medical problems and she became a mother bear looking after them. She complained I didn't help enough, but she wouldn't let me, only a mother can take care of sick children don't you know. The oldest graduated last year and the youngest is very independent and doesn't need mom anymore. (or so she feels)


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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Man, This crap is hard. And LBs suck! The wife started packing up her things today and I found her in the kitchen crying. I asked her if she wanted to walk the dog with me. She said no and to leave her alone. She said this is the hardest thing she ever had to do. Before I could stop myself, I said then don't do it.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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She said that she has to. She has seen all the changes and watch me become the perfect husband and do everything in 4 weeks that I didn't do in 10 years and it just makes her hurt more and get more mad. Watching me do them now when if I had done them all along she wouldn't be leaving. She said its great that I can change overnight, but it took her a long time to get to this point and she can't change in one day. That's when I asked her to stay and work on it! My filter must be completely clogged and useless.


ME: 48
WAW:47
Years Married: 21
Children: 2 Boys, 19 & 16
D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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I also told her that statistics show that once she leaves, the chance of reconciliation is slim. I need to stop myself. I truly think that if she has time to heal and miss all that she has here with me, she may be willing to give us another try. If I can keep showing her the changes and keep trying to meet her EN and keep wooing her.

Or maybe I'm deluding myself. Please some feedback and support. I'm either going to throw up or curl up into the fetal position. I can't take watching her pack!!!!


ME: 48
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Years Married: 21
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D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
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But she says she hurts so much if she doesn't go, she will kill herself. Yes, I know that is unstable, but she suffered (still going on) mental abuse from her mother her whole life and she has low self esteem and is always thinking the worst. That's where my support and love and meeting her ENs all these years could have helped heal her.

Uh-huh. You know what that sounds like to me? Drama Queen. dramaqueen Have you ever heard her threaten to harm herself before? I suspect not. Screw the mental abuse from her mother. Was that ever a factor in your M before?


D-Day 2-10-2009
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She says she went to a counselor at church to help her for the last 2 years and this woman eventually agreed to her desire to leave me, without EVER talking to me!!! She still calls her and supports her!

And did you immediately call this misguided counsellor and let her know what the whole story is? That your W is having an A?


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I also told her that statistics show that once she leaves, the chance of reconciliation is slim.

Okay, maybe you could have left off this part. Other than that, your conversations with her have been good.

You've got something OM doesn't have - your sons. And your dog. They will be helpful - she's going to miss them and want to come home. Let her know that the door is open.


D-Day 2-10-2009
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MB,
Actually she has said that before in our marriage. That was part of the problem. I was afraid to say anything to her for fear of her harming herself. So I said nothing and never worked on our relationship. The low self-esteem and insecurity has been a problem before as well. She suspects a bad motive for things, thinks that people are being mean to her when in fact that is not the case. Yeah, I know she has issues.


ME: 48
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Move out day: July 1st 2010
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MB,
I have debated this back and forth. I didn't want to turn this woman against my wife and alienate her more and push her into a corner. But I also thought that if I could convince her of my changes being honest and permanent then she could help talk her into it. I have tried calling her twice, both times she did not answer. Next week I'm going to church and look for her. My next step is to talk to some of our mutual church friends and see what I can get for info.


ME: 48
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Move out day: July 1st 2010
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Let her know that the door is open.
But not for constant visitation. It needs to a be here or leave me alone thing. Otherwise she will appear almost daily to interact with the boys and the dog and even you and then go back off to her romance and single lifestyle.


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Mark,
True. I am already getting a sense of this. She has talked about if she uses the crock pot, she will bring over dinner. She talks about us. She even said that the chairs she got for her apartment are a good investment for the boys, like she doesn't plan on needing them forever. I see some signs that she thinks time away to heal will work, but I could be overly optimistic. I just need to make sure she keeps seeing the permanent changes.


ME: 48
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D Day: informed of separation desire May 14, 2010
Move out day: July 1st 2010
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Rugby,

In her mind she is planning to have home with you and the boys AND her single life crash pad where she can entertain. She thinks that bringing you dinner and sharing in your lives is enough to allow her access to the home and to you and what you can provide for her. If she moves away, this needs to be exploded very quickly.

She needs to get it pretty soon that leaving to live it up like a single college girl with a new party and a new boy friend every weekend will not allow her to have you around to support her and be there for her when she has nothing more exciting to do. She needs to understand that getting a divorce means losing everything about you and all that you are and represent.

Keep up the Plan A for now, but start setting things up to go darker than a black hole...

Just a guess but I'm putting my money on a new flame at work, perhaps someone who has been a sympathetic ear and perhaps "having trouble" in his own marriage. Something is a lure that is getting her to chase a fantasy, Rugby. Women who decide to walk away usually just walk at some point. They don't talk about a future that includes you. If you are so bad she needs to get away from you why would she want to bring you dinner?

For me, this is a sure sign that she is all foggy and chasing something out of entitlement. Doesn't sound like Florida guy to me...Otherwise she'd be going to Florida. I could be wrong though, so...

SNOOP!

Mark

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I think Mark has it close...it could be that she just needs time to heal but this is rare. Even Dr Harley says if one spouse wants a separation there is usually another person in the back ground.

so I will just repeat what has been said...

1.) Plan A like your marriage depends on it because it does.

2.) Start preparing for Plan B = to go in deep darkness = this should be easier since the children are older and will not require any contact during hand offs.

3.) Find out the information from the church, get assistance if they are pro-marriage, what is thier culpability in pushing your wife for separation.

4.) SNOOP - Find out if there is a OM in the picture. Even do a drive by in the late night to find out if there is another vehicle at the apt if possible. Hire a PI if needed. Information is power - we can help further if there is an affair or not - but you need to eliminate this possibility. Another thing - is the Florida OM planning to visit soon - are you sure? Any other males that your wife has mentioned in the past?

Much to do Rugby and the chances are unknown. I personally dont like the idea that she quickly moved to divorce when you didnt respond to separation papers - dont think this is good. Separation might be a trial divorce for her while you are thinking she needs space to heal.

PS - Snooping is not stalking nor is it an invasion of privacy. Snooping is the way to find out what is happening in your life that is unknown to you now. You cant make a good decision without all the information and you have a right to know what is going on in your life.


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Mark and TBC if you're still here,
You both said you would give me some pointers on what to say/write to her when she moves. It is only 3 days away and I would like to start composing, so could you give me the pointer please?


ME: 48
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Hey Rugby,

I have had a busy weekend and having some company over this evening so I need to fire up the BBQ. I will be more than happy to give you some tips later this evening.

To be highly abridged, the letter should really point out a handful of really great memories of the two of you together. In mine, I acknowledged my sorrow over the significance of the matter at hand (her moving out), and was clear on how wonderful of a friend/wife she had been over the years.

And by the way, Rugby, the crock pot story was great and certainly struck a chord with TBC. Anyone who knows my sitch will understand why.

More later....

Hang in there.

TBC





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